cosmo knights what can fight them and win

[KLM]

A Battleram with a good crew (and/or phase or TW or psilite additions) should fight a CK with a reasonable chance.

Adios
KLM

[Damian Magecraft]

any mage with a half decent arsenal of spells and crap ton of PPE.
Demon Knights would do well against them as well.
Fallen Knights too.

[Johnathan]

Tons of things can feasibly take on a Cosmo-Knight and win. Maybe not one on one but still... Any Cosmo-Knight would DESERVE death if they tried to start something say on Atlantis... Or in the Brass City... Or ANYWHERE really. Cosmo-Knights are tough, yes. They're designed that way!

However, a railgun that does 1D4*10 from a burst STILL does 1D4*10 to a Cosmo-Knight! Pit a Cosmo-Knight against 3-5 power armor pilots armed with railguns and non-heat/plasma mini missiles... Chances are, if the Cosmo-Knight isn't smart about this battle he will be eating lead rather quickly...

[DBX]

T-man
Sea Inquisitor
battle magus
warlock marine

i think these have a chance as they level up, their odds start improving

[jaymz]

The new Flying Glitterboy from Triax.... For the win.

Let see a cosmo knight survive a few boom gun hits to his chest

[MaxxSterling]

I'd saying pretty much anything not using energy weapons or heat... So long as he doesn't run away... Realistically, I think a low level mage and a couple low level guys with rail guns. Magic net him and then blast away...

[Nekira Sudacne]

As one Rifts group found out, even Gods can die quickly if you magic net them before unloading with powerful weapons in an anti-magic cloud.

[Kovoston]

I read and reread the cosmo knight occ...and I keep racking my brain as to what could fight them in atmosphere so far I got ancient dragons(maybe) greater demons (again maybe) power armor(not really) what if any scenario could one actually lose?

A Rifts Priest could summon their deity to strike the Cosmo Knight... (Ouch!)

[Greyaxe]

undead slayer



Of course Dominator

[csbioborg]

a baslisk can kill a CK easy
three gaze attacks a melee 14 to save or u are stone
2 normal attacks and 1 tail attack
CK has no bouns to save v magic

[Johnathan]

A 14 to save against isn't that difficult to work with. With a 3D6+10 (or if the racial P.E. is HIGHER) +whatever bonus recieved by P.E. Boosts from physical skills can easily grant the Cosmo-Knight a decent save vs magic.

Case in point, my CK PC that I retired a couple years back was 10th level and had a P.E. of 32. That gave him a +8 save vs magic. He would've only needed a 6 to save against a basalisk's stone gaze. Which means he had a 70% chance of NOT being affected by it. Not the greatest of odds, Y'know?

[csbioborg]

A 14 to save against isn't that difficult to work with. With a 3D6+10 (or if the racial P.E. is HIGHER) +whatever bonus recieved by P.E. Boosts from physical skills can easily grant the Cosmo-Knight a decent save vs magic.

Case in point, my CK PC that I retired a couple years back was 10th level and had a P.E. of 32. That gave him a +8 save vs magic. He would've only needed a 6 to save against a basalisk's stone gaze. Which means he had a 70% chance of NOT being affected by it. Not the greatest of odds, Y'know?

supernatural stats are not raisd by skills

[Nekira Sudacne]

A 14 to save against isn't that difficult to work with. With a 3D6+10 (or if the racial P.E. is HIGHER) +whatever bonus recieved by P.E. Boosts from physical skills can easily grant the Cosmo-Knight a decent save vs magic.

Case in point, my CK PC that I retired a couple years back was 10th level and had a P.E. of 32. That gave him a +8 save vs magic. He would've only needed a 6 to save against a basalisk's stone gaze. Which means he had a 70% chance of NOT being affected by it. Not the greatest of odds, Y'know?

supernatural stats are not raisd by skills

False. HU says supernatural STRENGTH is not increased. It says nothing about supernatural PE.

[Carl Gleba]

Don't forget invincible guardsmen.

[Nekira Sudacne]

A high-level royal kreegor actually has a pretty good shot. At high levels they can get some decent magical ability as well as psionic ability in addition to being able to go physically toe to toe.

Granted, the fight will have to take place somewhere the cosmo knight can't just hover out of range and barrage with cosmic blasts.

[csbioborg]

a baslisk can kill a CK easy
three gaze attacks a melee 14 to save or u are stone
2 normal attacks and 1 tail attack
CK has no bouns to save v magic

They have no OCC bonus to save vs magic but take a look at their high supernatural PE (13-28). Almost every cosmo-knights should have a PE bonus to save vs magic (only those who rolled 3, 4, or 5 on their PE attribute roll won't have a bonus), and some of them will have a hefty bonus. Most of the Comso-knights in our games have a +6 to +8 to save vs magic.

[ninja'd!]

I still lik th basklisk's dds
he still gets a thirty percent chance three times a round plus he most likely has spells as well
and can turn invisable at will. CK will likely not finish him before he is stone.

[Johnathan]

We're all allowed our own fascinations and "personal favorites" I guess...

csbioborg is obviously a huge fan of the Basalisk... More power to ya, bro. However, I still don't think it would stand a chance against a Cosmo-Knight... An obvious bias considering the Basalisk is the bastard child of dragon-kind. In my own, personal, opinion anyway.

[jaymz]

I got an even better one, Triax's flying glitterboy tricked out with technowizard enhancements

[csbioborg]

We're all allowed our own fascinations and "personal favorites" I guess...

csbioborg is obviously a huge fan of the Basalisk... More power to ya, bro. However, I still don't think it would stand a chance against a Cosmo-Knight... An obvious bias considering the Basalisk is the bastard child of dragon-kind. In my own, personal, opinion anyway.

Play it out take a 12th level adult basklisk that is a 6th level ley line walker. If the CK is going to have near max stats with PEs of 32 then give them to the Baslisk as well. Basklisk turns invisable casts carpet fo adhension or magic net. I don't think the CK can see magical inviablity so Basklisk walks around gazing him. THe Basklisk has eith 1d400 or 600 ppe I can't remeber more than enough to keep up any spells neccesary. If the CK gets 32 PE the basklisk gets max PPE so he can spam spells for awhile. Okay assuming he needs now a 6 to save with his PE bonues. He needs to save that 6 times three times every melee. What are his odds of saving in themelee.

[KLM]

Hi there!

Play it out take a 12th level adult basklisk that is a 6th level ley line walker.

What is the range of the basilisk's gaze? How long it takes it for a CK to fly out?

Soo... ONE petrification attack at most.

Adios
KLM

[csbioborg]

Hi there!

Play it out take a 12th level adult basklisk that is a 6th level ley line walker.

What is the range of the basilisk's gaze? How long it takes it for a CK to fly out?

Soo... ONE petrification attack at most.

Adios
KLM

never heard of magic net or carpet of adhesion have ya
and presumably we are talking about a battle to the death
anyone know what the range is I think it might just be as long as its in the line of sight

[KLM]

Hi there!

never heard of magic net or carpet of adhesion have ya

Never read their range, have ya? Are they great to stick the CK to the next.... cloud or even butterfly. Yeah, right.

anyone know what the range is I think it might just be as long as its in the line of sight

In that case two words: pooooor Cormal.

(Translation: so, a basilisk can petrify a demons planet from a few AU? Not particularly good gamewise).

Also, there is the itsy-bitsy problem when the CK armor is reflective...

Adios
KLM

[cornholioprime]

I read and reread the cosmo knight occ...and I keep racking my brain as to what could fight them in atmosphere so far I got ancient dragons(maybe) greater demons (again maybe) power armor(not really) what if any scenario could one actually lose?

Intruder Ships can take on a Cosmo-Knight on their own terms (that special energy they shoot out is effective against both Cosmo-Knights and Promethians), and their ships can fly at similar speeds.

Plus they regenerate rapidly.

[csbioborg]

Hi there!

never heard of magic net or carpet of adhesion have ya

Never read their range, have ya? Are they great to stick the CK to the next.... cloud or even butterfly. Yeah, right.

anyone know what the range is I think it might just be as long as its in the line of sight

In that case two words: pooooor Cormal.

(Translation: so, a basilisk can petrify a demons planet from a few AU? Not particularly good gamewise).

Also, there is the itsy-bitsy problem when the CK armor is reflective...

Adios
KLM

CK armor is not reflective though and they can't make it reflective why its something they summon. Unless they were to manuelly apply some form of coating and keep there armor on then it is not possible.
While there is no size limit for baslisk power of petrification I think its up to the DM to come up with something reasonable. I'd say if its bigger than the biggest possible adult dragon then only part of the being becomes petrified kinda like in Williow when Williow throws the acorn at the socceress and only petrfies her arm I think

[KLM]

CK armor is not reflective though and they can't make it reflective why its something they summon.

A smooth metallic armor cannot be reflective, because it is summoned?

While there is no size limit for baslisk power of petrification I think its up to the DM to come up with something reasonable.

Or you might consider a range limit, hmm?

Otherwise the petrification power makes the basilisks the most potent kind of dragon - which they are not, according
to the fluff text.

-------------------
Back to topic: a basilisk, with a sufficient number of CG railgun/micromissile/death disk/phase beamer/crystal paraliser rifle
equipped thugs can ambush a CK in the confines of a space station/starship/streets of Center/etc and win the
engagement in most cases.

However, Steve652 - with the opening question - specifically asked for atmospheric combat options.

And that means opponents like a squad of flying PA, transatmospheric fighters (equipped with kinetic and
missile weapons. Magic and phase tech also works) and the like.

I do not see it as a great problem: any planetary goverment (or major corporation, private army, etc) can
muster enough power to intercept and kill a CK - or at least make him/her to run for his/her life.

Adios
KLM

[csbioborg]

thre is nothing in th description that implies it is reflective smooth does not equal reflective

[Damian Magecraft]

thre is nothing in th description that implies it is reflective smooth does not equal reflective

not to mention that if the armor were "reflective" and provided any sort of bonus it would be listed in the OCC write up.

[KLM]

thre is nothing in th description that implies it is reflective smooth does not equal reflective

Except that it comes from the CK's subconscious, plus alway metallic.

IMO, it can be as reflective as a pool of mercury - which happens to be used on mirrors, FYI. Also,
before the modern glass mirror, even bronze was used.

Not that all CK armor is a perfect mirror, of course - but can happen, depending on the individual.

Adios
KLM

[Damian Magecraft]

thre is nothing in th description that implies it is reflective smooth does not equal reflective

Except that it comes from the CK's subconscious, plus alway metallic.

IMO, it can be as reflective as a pool of mercury - which happens to be used on mirrors, FYI. Also,
before the modern glass mirror, even bronze was used.

Not that all CK armor is a perfect mirror, of course - but can happen, depending on the individual.

Adios
KLM

you can make the armor as reflective as you wish in the fluff of the character it still will have no effect for the purpose of this discussion.
RAW gives no bonuses for reflective armor in the OCC write up. And since we are discussing what can defeat a CK we have to use a common frame of reference. (RAW)
If we start using house rules I can claim my vagabond can kill a CK because CKs are deathly allergic to soap. (see the problem here? stick to the RAW.)

[Damian Magecraft]

thre is nothing in th description that implies it is reflective smooth does not equal reflective

not to mention that if the armor were "reflective" and provided any sort of bonus it would be listed in the OCC write up.

I always made the assumption from the canon, that the CK armor appeared as they wished it too.

It can look however the Player wishes. But the Looks will confer no special bonuses as per the RAW. (this is more or less what I was trying to point out sorry if my original post did not make that clear.)

[csbioborg]

CK armor is not reflective though and they can't make it reflective why its something they summon.

A smooth metallic armor cannot be reflective, because it is summoned?

While there is no size limit for baslisk power of petrification I think its up to the DM to come up with something reasonable.

Or you might consider a range limit, hmm?

well its described as a crimson beam of light so its travling at the speed of light so a basklisk attacks the demon planet it is actually shooting at the spot the planet was when the light relfected off of it so while it is bound to hit something its not going to hit the planet because the planet is in motion and has already traveled a great distance relative to the basklisk prespective
I think making a house rule any bigger than a adult dragon only gets the eqiavlaent of a adult dragon piece of it pertrfied works better.

[Greyaxe]

A 14 to save against isn't that difficult to work with. With a 3D6+10 (or if the racial P.E. is HIGHER) +whatever bonus recieved by P.E. Boosts from physical skills can easily grant the Cosmo-Knight a decent save vs magic.

Case in point, my CK PC that I retired a couple years back was 10th level and had a P.E. of 32. That gave him a +8 save vs magic. He would've only needed a 6 to save against a basalisk's stone gaze. Which means he had a 70% chance of NOT being affected by it. Not the greatest of odds, Y'know?

supernatural stats are not raisd by skills

False. HU says supernatural STRENGTH is not increased. It says nothing about supernatural PE.

HU states that? I don't use HU in PW so i will have to simply agree to disagree with you on this point.

[KLM]

Hi there!

well its described as a crimson beam of light so its travling at the speed of light so a basklisk attacks the demon planet it is actually shooting at the spot the planet was when the light relfected off of it so while it is bound to hit something its not going to hit the planet because the planet is in motion and has already traveled a great distance relative to the basklisk prespective

Ever since that multi-optic band wearing dragon in the RMB, this is a moot point.

I think making a house rule any bigger than a adult dragon only gets the eqiavlaent of a adult dragon piece of it pertrfied works better.

Which still makes basilisks the most deadly dragonkind - which they are not supposed to be.

Adios
KLM

[csbioborg]

basklisks are fairly weak compared to other dragons your average one is alow level spellcaster without psiconics and simply have there eye attacks to survive off
like all dragons they have high ppe so they can cast a lot of spells
and if a race if susceptible to magic attacks then they do come in handy but it would take a series of horrible rolls for a adult dragon of any other race to lose to a basklisk
since most have high bonus to magic
so while they match up well to a CK a great horn will beat them 19/20 ie h has to lose his save vs the gaze because in every other way he is going to win

as a race what they have going for them is they will work in teams unike other dragons
its common for up to 8 baskisk to work together so they start spamming there gaze attacks
as a team of eight that great horn problay is going to see his maker

[Nekira Sudacne]

A 14 to save against isn't that difficult to work with. With a 3D6+10 (or if the racial P.E. is HIGHER) +whatever bonus recieved by P.E. Boosts from physical skills can easily grant the Cosmo-Knight a decent save vs magic.

Case in point, my CK PC that I retired a couple years back was 10th level and had a P.E. of 32. That gave him a +8 save vs magic. He would've only needed a 6 to save against a basalisk's stone gaze. Which means he had a 70% chance of NOT being affected by it. Not the greatest of odds, Y'know?

supernatural stats are not raisd by skills

False. HU says supernatural STRENGTH is not increased. It says nothing about supernatural PE.

HU states that? I don't use HU in PW so i will have to simply agree to disagree with you on this point.

Well if your not using HU, where do you get that supernatural strength dosn't increase? It was never said anywhere in Rifts or Phase World.

[Carl Gleba]

A 14 to save against isn't that difficult to work with. With a 3D6+10 (or if the racial P.E. is HIGHER) +whatever bonus recieved by P.E. Boosts from physical skills can easily grant the Cosmo-Knight a decent save vs magic.

Case in point, my CK PC that I retired a couple years back was 10th level and had a P.E. of 32. That gave him a +8 save vs magic. He would've only needed a 6 to save against a basalisk's stone gaze. Which means he had a 70% chance of NOT being affected by it. Not the greatest of odds, Y'know?

supernatural stats are not raisd by skills

False. HU says supernatural STRENGTH is not increased. It says nothing about supernatural PE.

HU states that? I don't use HU in PW so i will have to simply agree to disagree with you on this point.

Well if your not using HU, where do you get that supernatural strength dosn't increase? It was never said anywhere in Rifts or Phase World.

Does it say somewhere that supernatural stats are not raised by skills? I think of SN beings like demi-gods and say Grackletooths that go through the normal character creation process. I don't recall it saying anywhere that they do not receive the benefits of skill bonuses?

I just did a quick skim through the skill rules in RUE and I didn't see any mention for SN beings.

[Svartalf]

Anything with huge staying power and magic powered attacks

[Svartalf]

any mage with a half decent arsenal of spells and crap ton of PPE.
Demon Knights would do well against them as well.
Fallen Knights too.

Remind me where Demon Knights are from Plz. I keep mixing them up with Mystic Knights and the Mrrly Knights from Rifts England.

[Svartalf]

As one Rifts group found out, even Gods can die quickly if you magic net them before unloading with powerful weapons in an anti-magic cloud.

mmmh... a) Are god powers not a bit too big for a mere spell like AMC?
b) ya better be quick between unleaching the cloud and launching your attack, because even if the net held them, as soon as the cloud is up, no more net, and gods are seldom slow on the uptake.

[Nekira Sudacne]

any mage with a half decent arsenal of spells and crap ton of PPE.
Demon Knights would do well against them as well.
Fallen Knights too.

Remind me where Demon Knights are from Plz. I keep mixing them up with Mystic Knights and the Mrrly Knights from Rifts England.

They are from Dimensional Outbreak. They are essentially super witches made by bonding a mortal to the greatest Demon Planet.

[Nekira Sudacne]

As one Rifts group found out, even Gods can die quickly if you magic net them before unloading with powerful weapons in an anti-magic cloud.

mmmh... a) Are god powers not a bit too big for a mere spell like AMC?

No, Dragons and Gods makes it clear that even the greatest of gods are vunerable to Magic. Unlike D&D, Palladium gods have no innate magic resistance beyond their normally sky-high PE attributes.

But a single failed save and even Zeus will be your ***** if you cast Dominate on him.

b) ya better be quick between unleaching the cloud and launching your attack, because even if the net held them, as soon as the cloud is up, no more net, and gods are seldom slow on the uptake.

Actually, the spells cast by the caster of the anti-magic cloud are uneffected, which is what we exploited.

[Lord Z]

I'll limit my answer to something that a CK is likely to actually encounter.

Any City Rat who gets his hands on a rune weapon with the Soul Drinker ability can kill a CK in a single hit and a failed saving throw. Just casually walk up to an unsuspecting CK and stab her. Even one point of damage makes the target suspectable to the soul drinking. Since Splugorth create rune weapons, I suspect that many a CK have been targeted in this way. You only have to fight the CK if he makes his first saving throw.

Using the new options in Rifter #53, Soul Drinker weapons aren't that uncommon anymore. Even Least Rune Swords can have this ability.

Quick note, guys -- Rifter #0.1 is still accepting articles if I can get the accompanying U.M.F. this month. We have a couple of Rifts Earth articles lined up, but we don't have anything representing the Three Galaxies nor other dimension books yet.

[Carl Gleba]

I'll limit my answer to something that a CK is likely to actually encounter.

Any City Rat who gets his hands on a rune weapon with the Soul Drinker ability can kill a CK in a single hit and a failed saving throw. Just casually walk up to an unsuspecting CK and stab her. Even one point of damage makes the target suspectable to the soul drinking. Since Splugorth create rune weapons, I suspect that many a CK have been targeted in this way. You only have to fight the CK if he makes his first saving throw.

Using the new options in Rifter #53, Soul Drinker weapons aren't that uncommon anymore. Even Least Rune Swords can have this ability.

Quick note, guys -- Rifter #0.1 is still accepting articles if I can get the accompanying U.M.F. this month. We have a couple of Rifts Earth articles lined up, but we don't have anything representing the Three Galaxies nor other dimension books yet.

Said city rat still needs to draw blood in order for a soul drinker to take a soul. Of course it all depends on the GM on what value the CK M.D.C. is hit points and how much it takes to get to those M.D. hit points.

[csbioborg]

I don't know about that
let's make this a sdc scenario
I take 1 point of damage to my sdc from a dagger
that means I took 1 point of damage that is non lifethreaenting that i can shrugg off
that does not mean I didn't get cut

same should applyto a ck getting hit with a md sword

althouhg they have 500 mdc armour they can conjure at will so you'd need to surpirse them

[Carl Gleba]

I guess its depends on how you interput the rules. I always took hit point damage as bleeding, becuase of blood loss rules.

I know what you're saying. I've had some paper cuts that felt like they cut to the bone. The thing is this is a game of numbers so at some point you need to make a determination of where true blood loss starts.

[Damian Magecraft]

I guess its depends on how you interput the rules. I always took hit point damage as bleeding, becuase of blood loss rules.

I know what you're saying. I've had some paper cuts that felt like they cut to the bone. The thing is this is a game of numbers so at some point you need to make a determination of where true blood loss starts.

This makes sense. And is a fair way to adjudicate the drawing of blood rules for vampiric rune blades. IMHO.

[Lord Z]

Thanks for the insight, CG!

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'll limit my answer to something that a CK is likely to actually encounter.

Any City Rat who gets his hands on a rune weapon with the Soul Drinker ability can kill a CK in a single hit and a failed saving throw. Just casually walk up to an unsuspecting CK and stab her. Even one point of damage makes the target suspectable to the soul drinking. Since Splugorth create rune weapons, I suspect that many a CK have been targeted in this way. You only have to fight the CK if he makes his first saving throw.

Using the new options in Rifter #53, Soul Drinker weapons aren't that uncommon anymore. Even Least Rune Swords can have this ability.

Quick note, guys -- Rifter #0.1 is still accepting articles if I can get the accompanying U.M.F. this month. We have a couple of Rifts Earth articles lined up, but we don't have anything representing the Three Galaxies nor other dimension books yet.

Said city rat still needs to draw blood in order for a soul drinker to take a soul. Of course it all depends on the GM on what value the CK M.D.C. is hit points and how much it takes to get to those M.D. hit points.

Actually according to conversion book one, ALL the MDC of an MDC creature is HP for all purposes.

Not that i'm sure what's that got to do with it. If you stab someone with a sword, they bleed, it dosn't matter how much friggin S/MDC they got.

[calto40k]

I'll limit my answer to something that a CK is likely to actually encounter.

Any City Rat who gets his hands on a rune weapon with the Soul Drinker ability can kill a CK in a single hit and a failed saving throw. Just casually walk up to an unsuspecting CK and stab her. Even one point of damage makes the target suspectable to the soul drinking. Since Splugorth create rune weapons, I suspect that many a CK have been targeted in this way. You only have to fight the CK if he makes his first saving throw.

Using the new options in Rifter #53, Soul Drinker weapons aren't that uncommon anymore. Even Least Rune Swords can have this ability.

Quick note, guys -- Rifter #0.1 is still accepting articles if I can get the accompanying U.M.F. this month. We have a couple of Rifts Earth articles lined up, but we don't have anything representing the Three Galaxies nor other dimension books yet.

Said city rat still needs to draw blood in order for a soul drinker to take a soul. Of course it all depends on the GM on what value the CK M.D.C. is hit points and how much it takes to get to those M.D. hit points.

Actually according to conversion book one, ALL the MDC of an MDC creature is HP for all purposes.

Not that i'm sure what's that got to do with it. If you stab someone with a sword, they bleed, it dosn't matter how much friggin S/MDC they got.

only thing is you have to get through the mdc armor of the ck first to pierce his personal MDC

[csbioborg]

I'll limit my answer to something that a CK is likely to actually encounter.

Any City Rat who gets his hands on a rune weapon with the Soul Drinker ability can kill a CK in a single hit and a failed saving throw. Just casually walk up to an unsuspecting CK and stab her. Even one point of damage makes the target suspectable to the soul drinking. Since Splugorth create rune weapons, I suspect that many a CK have been targeted in this way. You only have to fight the CK if he makes his first saving throw.

Using the new options in Rifter #53, Soul Drinker weapons aren't that uncommon anymore. Even Least Rune Swords can have this ability.

Quick note, guys -- Rifter #0.1 is still accepting articles if I can get the accompanying U.M.F. this month. We have a couple of Rifts Earth articles lined up, but we don't have anything representing the Three Galaxies nor other dimension books yet.

Said city rat still needs to draw blood in order for a soul drinker to take a soul. Of course it all depends on the GM on what value the CK M.D.C. is hit points and how much it takes to get to those M.D. hit points.

Actually according to conversion book one, ALL the MDC of an MDC creature is HP for all purposes.

Not that i'm sure what's that got to do with it. If you stab someone with a sword, they bleed, it dosn't matter how much friggin S/MDC they got.

only thing is you have to get through the mdc armor of the ck first to pierce his personal MDC

not if the cosmo knight is walking down the street ad dosen't see it coming
he does not wear the armor all the time