A Good Witch

[Jorel]

Nope.

[Saitou Hajime]

No Good Witches as written in the Witch OCC in the First Conversion Book.

[gaby]

Well to make a Good Witch you first need to make a Good Alien intelntelligences to make a pact with.

What Demon can make pact witch?

[Nadrakas]

Well to make a Good Witch you first need to make a Good Alien intelntelligences to make a pact with.

What Demon can make pact witch?

Good idea Gaby in determining what Supernatural Creatures could empower a Good Witch.

In PFRP, where Rifts got the idea for Alien intelligences, in Dragons and Gods, page 69, it say the following: Not all Alien Intelligences are evil. I don't want to quote too much, but the Elementals just don't understand mortals. A few "Alien Intelligences"can understand a little about mortals, but their Powers make them Alien, and they often manifest as Gods, Demons or Spirits of Nature.

In Conversion Book 1 it says "Most supernatural forces that engage in witchery are powerful intelligences and god-like creatures of immense power.", so if we stick to something similar for the Forces of Light then we might be able to work this out together.

The problem is this: There are plenty of Evil/Selfish Supernatural Creatures that could empower an "Evil Witch", however, there are few Good ones to empower a "Good Witch." I think the following might work:

- Supernatural Intelligence: One that is actually Good: While an extreme rarity, not all of them should be Evil. Perhaps one or two are good?

- Gods: From Conversion Book 2, Pantheons of the Megaverse

--- Aztec Pantheon: Quetzalcoatl (p. 23-24): The Good Witches of Quetzalcoatle oppose Tezcatlipoca and his followers, along with the Vampire infestation. (Xototl (p. 25), Quetzalcoatl's ally, probably is not powerful enough to empower a Good Witch.)

--- Pantheon of Olympia: Athena (p. 73-75): Athena is concerned with the war between the Light and Darkness and she works behind the scenes. Her Good Witches are capable of handling themselves in combat, but hold themselves and others to high ideals.

--- Pantheon of Olympa: Apollo (p. 75-76): Those chosen by Apollo to be his Good Witches act as seers, capable of telling the future.

--- The Great Titans Of Olympia: Prometheus (p. 89-90): Prometheus, the Protetor of Humankind, has many agents that do his bidding. Among them are those he has empowered, the Good Witches, who spread knowledge and push back the darkness of ignorance.

--- The Gods of India: Agni (p 116-117): The Gods of India have yet to return fully to Rifts Earth, yet Agni has empowered a small group of Good Witches to act as his Voice to Humankind and as his Eyes in the war between the Light and Darkness.

--- The Norse Gods: Odin (p. 146-148): Odin's Witches can be Good or of a Selfish alignment, but are always Male. As part of their initiation they must pluck their left eye out and offer it to Odin. If accepted, the eye is taken by Odin, disappearing from the bloodies hand of Odin's new Witch. The Witches of Odin oppose the forces of Darkness, but they advance the worship of Odin and the Norse Pantheon above all others. The Witches gain the ability to change shape, to cast some magic and the Gift of a Raven from Odin, through which they are mentally linked, allowing telepathic communication and the Witch to see through the Ravens eyes.

--- Persian Gods: Anahita (p. 189-190): Anahita chooses her Good Witches based on their concern for the Waters and Oceans. Anahita empowers her Good Witches with the ability to breath water and survive at the greatest of depths. She and her Good Witches are opposed to the Lord of the Deep and any who would dispoil Earths Waters.

--- Persian Gods: Haoma (p. 191-193): Haoma empowers his Good Witches to oppose Tyrants and violators of Nature. Far from being pacifists, the Good Witches of Haoma take an active role, and many will pick up weapons to protect the innocent.


Thoughts?


~ N

[Zer0 Kay]

Well to make a Good Witch you first need to make a Good Alien intelntelligences to make a pact with.

What Demon can make pact witch?

Good idea Gaby in determining what Supernatural Creatures could empower a Good Witch.

In PFRP, where Rifts got the idea for Alien intelligences, in Dragons and Gods, page 69, it say the following: Not all Alien Intelligences are evil. I don't want to quote too much, but the Elementals just don't understand mortals. A few "Alien Intelligences"can understand a little about mortals, but their Powers make them Alien, and they often manifest as Gods, Demons or Spirits of Nature.

In Conversion Book 1 it says "Most supernatural forces that engage in witchery are powerful intelligences and god-like creatures of immense power.", so if we stick to something similar for the Forces of Light then we might be able to work this out together.

The problem is this: There are plenty of Evil/Selfish Supernatural Creatures that could empower an "Evil Witch", however, there are few Good ones to empower a "Good Witch." I think the following might work:

- Supernatural Intelligence: One that is actually Good: While an extreme rarity, not all of them should be Evil. Perhaps one or two are good?

- Gods: From Conversion Book 2, Pantheons of the Megaverse

--- Aztec Pantheon: Quetzalcoatl (p. 23-24): The Good Witches of Quetzalcoatle oppose Tezcatlipoca and his followers, along with the Vampire infestation. (Xototl (p. 25), Quetzalcoatl's ally, probably is not powerful enough to empower a Good Witch.)

--- Pantheon of Olympia: Athena (p. 73-75): Athena is concerned with the war between the Light and Darkness and she works behind the scenes. Her Good Witches are capable of handling themselves in combat, but hold themselves and others to high ideals.

--- Pantheon of Olympa: Apollo (p. 75-76): Those chosen by Apollo to be his Good Witches act as seers, capable of telling the future.

--- The Great Titans Of Olympia: Prometheus (p. 89-90): Prometheus, the Protetor of Humankind, has many agents that do his bidding. Among them are those he has empowered, the Good Witches, who spread knowledge and push back the darkness of ignorance.

--- The Gods of India: Agni (p 116-117): The Gods of India have yet to return fully to Rifts Earth, yet Agni has empowered a small group of Good Witches to act as his Voice to Humankind and as his Eyes in the war between the Light and Darkness.

--- The Norse Gods: Odin (p. 146-148): Odin's Witches can be Good or of a Selfish alignment, but are always Male. As part of their initiation they must pluck their left eye out and offer it to Odin. If accepted, the eye is taken by Odin, disappearing from the bloodies hand of Odin's new Witch. The Witches of Odin oppose the forces of Darkness, but they advance the worship of Odin and the Norse Pantheon above all others. The Witches gain the ability to change shape, to cast some magic and the Gift of a Raven from Odin, through which they are mentally linked, allowing telepathic communication and the Witch to see through the Ravens eyes.

--- Persian Gods: Anahita (p. 189-190): Anahita chooses her Good Witches based on their concern for the Waters and Oceans. Anahita empowers her Good Witches with the ability to breath water and survive at the greatest of depths. She and her Good Witches are opposed to the Lord of the Deep and any who would dispoil Earths Waters.

--- Persian Gods: Haoma (p. 191-193): Haoma empowers his Good Witches to oppose Tyrants and violators of Nature. Far from being pacifists, the Good Witches of Haoma take an active role, and many will pick up weapons to protect the innocent.


Thoughts?


~ N

Gods do not equal Alien Intelligences. The gifted followers of Gods are called Priests.

[AzathothXy]

Gods do not equal Alien Intelligences. The gifted followers of Gods are called Priests.

But gods can create witches(Ahriman for example), and AIs can empower priests.

[Nadrakas]

Gods do not equal Alien Intelligences. The gifted followers of Gods are called Priests.

Zer0 Kay,

Thank you for your thoughts. Does this fit with your earlier comments that there can be no Good Witches?

Now, allow me to, using somewhat dry sense of humor, lay out reasons counter to your answer (not counter to you, just your answer.).

Gods do not equal Alien Intelligences. The gifted followers of Gods are called Priests.

Hmmm.
1a. Well I guess I'll ignore the reference to Thoth formerly being the Great Old One Xy. No, can't have that.

1b. Hmm, then I'll have to ignore the possibility that Zurvan may have been one of the Great Old Ones too. Darn, these Old Ones seem to be inhabiting lesser beings a lot. But if the Great Old Ones, the most powerful Alien Intelligences ever (that we know), are Greater Beings, they how could they ever be forced to be anything Lesser (Well, Xy was tricked by two other Old Ones...and his own Hubris. But what of Zuvrin...?)

2. Darn, I suppose that I'm going to have to ignore the fact that Brahma, and a few other Powerhouses of the Megaverse, are able to keep the "Unnameable Beings" asleep (Old Ones anyone?). Oh heck, there goes my Campaign, the Earth, the Solar System, the Galaxy, the Universe, the Megaverse...darn, and the local Donut Shop. Well, at least Ahriman will be one Happy Evil Bad Guy. How, just how, do "mere Gods" keep these "Unnameable Beings" -- Olde Ones -- asleep? Hmmm...Could it be a mistake and they are playing Possum?

3a. Hmmm, odd that there are even Alien Intelligences that are Weaker than Gods, but hey, they can can still empower Witches while the most powerful Gods can't. Strange. Gods must have Priests, Alien Intelligences must have Witches. Is this written somewhere in the "Scrolls of the Universe?"

3b. Nah...A Powerful being, such as an Alien Intelligence or a God, that has the ability to empower "Lesser Beings" should be able to channel that Power in a method of their Own choosing -- otherwise, what good is it having all that power? If they want "Priests," "Witches," "Holy Warriors," or "Court Jesters" then that's what they get. If they call their "Priest" a "Witch" then that's what they are called. If they call their "Witch" a "Priest" then that's what they are called.

Names...names...names...don't get stuck on the names. Break out of the box.

I don't know if anyone followed the above. My mind sometimes wonders. Basically, it goes like this:

1. Your a God.
2. You want followers.
3. You decide, for whatever reason, that you want to empower your followers with power, but the follower has to give something in return. Something more than even a Priest would normally be required to give. A Pact between you and the follower, wherein the follower gives something of themselves to you and you empower them. If you were an Evil Alien Intelligence this would be called creating a "Witch," but you are not. Your a Good God of "_________" (Insert Whatever) and you want truly dedicated followers that you can have direct access to...at any time, and who are 100% dedicated to you. They are your "_______" (Insert name. Witch or whatever).

OR

1. You are an Alien Intelligence.
2. You want to establish a long lasting and far reaching Power Base.
3. You seek out followers to whom you can lend Power too in small amounts, but in larger numbers than normal. They establish themselves, spreading Word of you, whether by actual Word or by the Sword.
4. Time, which is meaningless to you, passes. Generations are born and die. You watch your followers spread your name across the land, gaining tens of thousands of followers. The P.P.E. feeds into a device you created, allowing you to effectively have a vast P.P.E. Battery. Then, after a few thousand years, on a High Holy Day, when the the alignments are correct and all of your followers are in attendance at their Shrines and Holy Places, you draw deeply upon them through your Priests, drawing their Life Force (P.P.E.) out of them, killing three million mortals as your power swells and you ascend to become as powerful as the Great Old Ones! (Ok...a stretch, but hey...work with me here).

Or put another way: Alien Intelligence or God, either one should be able to have the type of "Empowered" follower they want.


~ N

[AzathothXy]

3a. Hmmm, odd that there are even Alien Intelligences that are Weaker than Gods, but hey, they can can still empower Witches while the most powerful Gods can't. Strange. Gods must have Priests, Alien Intelligences must have Witches. Is this written somewhere in the "Scrolls of the Universe?"

With AIs, they don't have different MDC/SDC values. Gods tend to be stronger in their home realms, where as AIs retain their health value whereever they are. And AIs are dependant on worshippers for power, it helps but they don't need it like gods do. In a battle between an AI and a god, if they start destroying each other's followers/minions, the god will be hurting while the AI will be fine.

[Nadrakas]

3a. Hmmm, odd that there are even Alien Intelligences that are Weaker than Gods, but hey, they can can still empower Witches while the most powerful Gods can't. Strange. Gods must have Priests, Alien Intelligences must have Witches. Is this written somewhere in the "Scrolls of the Universe?"

With AIs, they don't have different MDC/SDC values. Gods tend to be stronger in their home realms, where as AIs retain their health value whereever they are. And AIs are dependant on worshippers for power, it helps but they don't need it like gods do. In a battle between an AI and a god, if they start destroying each other's followers/minions, the god will be hurting while the AI will be fine.

(Sigh)

True, to a point. However neither Zuvrans nor Thoths MDC is reduced. The specific reason for Zuvran's MDC not being reduced is "His stats are not reduced on Rifts Earth, since he doesn't need worshippers." Thoth...well, lets just say he's special.


Now, I understand that my entire post was "somewhat dry sense of humor," but taken in it's entirety, the point that I was trying to get across was that Alien Intelligences or Gods can empower their worshippers however they want. If one of them wants Priests then so be it. If one of them wants Witches then so be it. If one of them want Politicians (Who are "really evil" ) then so be it.


(Sigh)

Why is it, that you have to defend everything you write, on every Forum on the Internet?


~ N

[Myrrhibis]

*snips several people's names*

Saitou Hajime Wrote: I look at this way, good Witches are either Shifters with that boon or effectively Priests of Light but their understanding is different.

Witch in a Wiccan sense would be some form of Priest of Light ore simple Lay worshiper. (End of Saitou Hajima's Writing)


Not true, Witches and Wiccans are not always one and the same. I wouldn't consider a Witch a priest of light either.

Sorry but read what I wrote, it make perfect sense in the context written.[/quote]


I am reading what you wrote and I guess I am not understanding what you mean. Wiccans are Wiccans not Witches so I don't understand what you mean by Witch in a Wiccan sense.[/quote]
*massive snip of several people's comments & Nas' response*
______________________________________________________


Now, back to the Real reason for this thread: A Good Witch in Palladium/Rifts -- I don't see a reason why there can't be a "Good" Witch. As Ninjabunny Emperor Ryu (edited 27 Dec '10) pointed out, in the Conversion Book 1 (p. 55), "1. A direct link and willing allegiance to the supernatural (often evil)." It's "often evil"...not always. Unfortunately, what muddies the waters is the second element, "2. Empowerment by that supernatural evil." I would say that due to the "often evil" comment in #1, that the "evil" comment in #2 is trumped.

Some of the Gifts might be different. Demon Familiar would become something more appropriate to the Supernatural Entity the White Witch is bonding with. There wouldn't be Blood Sacrifices for Minor Pacts nor other "Evil" acts required. It would require some reworking, but I think it would be worth it to include in the game. Now, would most people know the difference between a "Bad" & "Good" Witch? Probably not, and that is where good Roleplayng comes in. More than most, the "Good" Witch has to lead by example, despite the trials of life. And this is where Really Good Roleplaying opportunities come in.


~ N[/quote]

So currently, there are four main kinds of witches:
1. The Christian witch, who make pacts with the Devil and casts evil magic.
2. The Wiccans, who are not Christian, have not made pacts with anybody and who are, whatever their origins and stereotypes, generally good and moral people (well, as much as any other religion). They (in theory, anyway), only use magic for good, because the religion includes heavy repercussions for immoral activities, especially when magic is involved.
3. Other Pagan Witches, like the Strega. There are quite a few neo-pagans out there that consider themselves witches, but who aren't either Strega or Wiccans, but are so similar that I'm going to lump them in here. Their use of magic isn't as restricted as with the Wiccans, but it's not inherently evil like the Christian Witches.
4. Satanic Witches, which use magic for selfishness and manipulation, much like the Christian Witches, but who officially don't believe in God or The Devil.

Of all these types, it's pretty clear that Palladium was describing the traditional Christian Witch, who is somebody who makes pacts with evil powers in order to gain magical abilities.
That's why Palladium's Witches are typically evil or aligned with evil entities.

But they are not priests of light they are closer to druids or other nature elemental worshipper.

As a Wiccan - who is a Witch, I'll chime in.

KC - while I could easily get nit-picky, in general your summary is good for this discussion.

Zer0 Kay - Wiccans (with few exceptions) do not worship the elements. We do call upon a generic Lord/Lady for Deities, or more often specific ones. Our usual God & Goddess (such as in my case, Isis & Thoth; my parents call upon Celtic deities)= patrons, and we can call upon others that may apply more the season or reason for getting together. In the case of a Witch, if you're doing a healing spell, or monetary spell, you'd want to ask for the blessing & 'involvement' of a Deity that's considered more applicable.

Ok let me Rephase in the Wiccans I have known in my life and their rather large groups of friends who have used Witch to Identify themselves, they would be more like Priestess/priests of light.

But they are not priests of light they are closer to druids or other nature elemental worshipper.

In Rifts, the closest applicable OCC I can think of would be Mystic.[/quote]

Erm... sorta... but I personally feel that Priest (of Light or Darkness) is closer to a typical Wiccan. I do feel that the Witch OCC could easily work for a good-one, with modified Pacts & 'costs'.

as for the earlier (mid thread I think) comment about "Charmed" not being good rep of Wicca - true, but not as bad as the film "The Craft"... at least in Charmed & Buffy's Willow, they did have ramifications from the Rede & Threefold Law.

[Saitou Hajime]

*snips several people's names*

Saitou Hajime Wrote: I look at this way, good Witches are either Shifters with that boon or effectively Priests of Light but their understanding is different.

Witch in a Wiccan sense would be some form of Priest of Light ore simple Lay worshiper. (End of Saitou Hajima's Writing)


Not true, Witches and Wiccans are not always one and the same. I wouldn't consider a Witch a priest of light either.

Sorry but read what I wrote, it make perfect sense in the context written.

I am reading what you wrote and I guess I am not understanding what you mean. Wiccans are Wiccans not Witches so I don't understand what you mean by Witch in a Wiccan sense.[/quote]
*massive snip of several people's comments & Nas' response*
______________________________________________________


Now, back to the Real reason for this thread: A Good Witch in Palladium/Rifts -- I don't see a reason why there can't be a "Good" Witch. As Ninjabunny Emperor Ryu (edited 27 Dec '10) pointed out, in the Conversion Book 1 (p. 55), "1. A direct link and willing allegiance to the supernatural (often evil)." It's "often evil"...not always. Unfortunately, what muddies the waters is the second element, "2. Empowerment by that supernatural evil." I would say that due to the "often evil" comment in #1, that the "evil" comment in #2 is trumped.

Some of the Gifts might be different. Demon Familiar would become something more appropriate to the Supernatural Entity the White Witch is bonding with. There wouldn't be Blood Sacrifices for Minor Pacts nor other "Evil" acts required. It would require some reworking, but I think it would be worth it to include in the game. Now, would most people know the difference between a "Bad" & "Good" Witch? Probably not, and that is where good Roleplayng comes in. More than most, the "Good" Witch has to lead by example, despite the trials of life. And this is where Really Good Roleplaying opportunities come in.


~ N[/quote]

So currently, there are four main kinds of witches:
1. The Christian witch, who make pacts with the Devil and casts evil magic.
2. The Wiccans, who are not Christian, have not made pacts with anybody and who are, whatever their origins and stereotypes, generally good and moral people (well, as much as any other religion). They (in theory, anyway), only use magic for good, because the religion includes heavy repercussions for immoral activities, especially when magic is involved.
3. Other Pagan Witches, like the Strega. There are quite a few neo-pagans out there that consider themselves witches, but who aren't either Strega or Wiccans, but are so similar that I'm going to lump them in here. Their use of magic isn't as restricted as with the Wiccans, but it's not inherently evil like the Christian Witches.
4. Satanic Witches, which use magic for selfishness and manipulation, much like the Christian Witches, but who officially don't believe in God or The Devil.

Of all these types, it's pretty clear that Palladium was describing the traditional Christian Witch, who is somebody who makes pacts with evil powers in order to gain magical abilities.
That's why Palladium's Witches are typically evil or aligned with evil entities.

But they are not priests of light they are closer to druids or other nature elemental worshipper.

As a Wiccan - who is a Witch, I'll chime in.

KC - while I could easily get nit-picky, in general your summary is good for this discussion.

Zer0 Kay - Wiccans (with few exceptions) do not worship the elements. We do call upon a generic Lord/Lady for Deities, or more often specific ones. Our usual God & Goddess (such as in my case, Isis & Thoth; my parents call upon Celtic deities)= patrons, and we can call upon others that may apply more the season or reason for getting together. In the case of a Witch, if you're doing a healing spell, or monetary spell, you'd want to ask for the blessing & 'involvement' of a Deity that's considered more applicable.

Ok let me Rephase in the Wiccans I have known in my life and their rather large groups of friends who have used Witch to Identify themselves, they would be more like Priestess/priests of light.

But they are not priests of light they are closer to druids or other nature elemental worshipper.

In Rifts, the closest applicable OCC I can think of would be Mystic.[/quote]

Erm... sorta... but I personally feel that Priest (of Light or Darkness) is closer to a typical Wiccan. I do feel that the Witch OCC could easily work for a good-one, with modified Pacts & 'costs'.

as for the earlier (mid thread I think) comment about "Charmed" not being good rep of Wicca - true, but not as bad as the film "The Craft"... at least in Charmed & Buffy's Willow, they did have ramifications from the Rede & Threefold Law.[/quote]

Thanks!

[Killer Cyborg]

as for the earlier (mid thread I think) comment about "Charmed" not being good rep of Wicca - true, but not as bad as the film "The Craft"... at least in Charmed & Buffy's Willow, they did have ramifications from the Rede & Threefold Law.

Actually, The Craft wasn't as bad as a lot of people seem to believe.
At least from what I've seen of neo-pagans, especially at the time.
The newer witches didn't respect the rules of the religion (or any rules), but the woman who owned the bookstore certainly seemed to understand how things work.
In a lot of ways, it was pretty accurate. It's just that this particular group of teen pagans

Spoiler:

happened to have a new member that had actual magical/psychic powers which gave them all some heavy duty real-world effects. Think of it like a group of Christians who recruit a psychic that can make their prayers come true.

The only really BAD part was the ending, where

Spoiler:

after all the driving home of the Wiccan Rede, the main character uses her powers just to show off and intimidate by dropping a tree branch on people who annoyed her. That goes right against the primary point of the movie and the religion

And in Buffy, the magic was collectively horrible. Sometimes Willow could re-arrange reality with a wave of her hand, other times she had to strain to do much simpler things.
Whedon didn't have the magic of the Buffyverse follow any consistent rules. One of the weak points of an overall good series, IMO.

[Killer Cyborg]

As a Wiccan - who is a Witch, I'll chime in.

KC - while I could easily get nit-picky, in general your summary is good for this discussion.

Thanks!
It's a complex issue to sum up, and there are any number of points that people in and out of the Wiccan community argue about, so there isn't ANY answer that would make everybody happy.

[Mack]

Please keep this to a Rifts related discussion.

[Zer0 Kay]

Gods do not equal Alien Intelligences. The gifted followers of Gods are called Priests.

Zer0 Kay,

Thank you for your thoughts. Does this fit with your earlier comments that there can be no Good Witches?

Now, allow me to, using somewhat dry sense of humor, lay out reasons counter to your answer (not counter to you, just your answer.).

Gods do not equal Alien Intelligences. The gifted followers of Gods are called Priests.

Hmmm.
1a. Well I guess I'll ignore the reference to Thoth formerly being the Great Old One Xy. No, can't have that.

1b. Hmm, then I'll have to ignore the possibility that Zurvan may have been one of the Great Old Ones too. Darn, these Old Ones seem to be inhabiting lesser beings a lot. But if the Great Old Ones, the most powerful Alien Intelligences ever (that we know), are Greater Beings, they how could they ever be forced to be anything Lesser (Well, Xy was tricked by two other Old Ones...and his own Hubris. But what of Zuvrin...?)

2. Darn, I suppose that I'm going to have to ignore the fact that Brahma, and a few other Powerhouses of the Megaverse, are able to keep the "Unnameable Beings" asleep (Old Ones anyone?). Oh heck, there goes my Campaign, the Earth, the Solar System, the Galaxy, the Universe, the Megaverse...darn, and the local Donut Shop. Well, at least Ahriman will be one Happy Evil Bad Guy. How, just how, do "mere Gods" keep these "Unnameable Beings" -- Olde Ones -- asleep? Hmmm...Could it be a mistake and they are playing Possum?

3a. Hmmm, odd that there are even Alien Intelligences that are Weaker than Gods, but hey, they can can still empower Witches while the most powerful Gods can't. Strange. Gods must have Priests, Alien Intelligences must have Witches. Is this written somewhere in the "Scrolls of the Universe?"

3b. Nah...A Powerful being, such as an Alien Intelligence or a God, that has the ability to empower "Lesser Beings" should be able to channel that Power in a method of their Own choosing -- otherwise, what good is it having all that power? If they want "Priests," "Witches," "Holy Warriors," or "Court Jesters" then that's what they get. If they call their "Priest" a "Witch" then that's what they are called. If they call their "Witch" a "Priest" then that's what they are called.

Names...names...names...don't get stuck on the names. Break out of the box.

I don't know if anyone followed the above. My mind sometimes wonders. Basically, it goes like this:

1. Your a God.
2. You want followers.
3. You decide, for whatever reason, that you want to empower your followers with power, but the follower has to give something in return. Something more than even a Priest would normally be required to give. A Pact between you and the follower, wherein the follower gives something of themselves to you and you empower them. If you were an Evil Alien Intelligence this would be called creating a "Witch," but you are not. Your a Good God of "_________" (Insert Whatever) and you want truly dedicated followers that you can have direct access to...at any time, and who are 100% dedicated to you. They are your "_______" (Insert name. Witch or whatever).

OR

1. You are an Alien Intelligence.
2. You want to establish a long lasting and far reaching Power Base.
3. You seek out followers to whom you can lend Power too in small amounts, but in larger numbers than normal. They establish themselves, spreading Word of you, whether by actual Word or by the Sword.
4. Time, which is meaningless to you, passes. Generations are born and die. You watch your followers spread your name across the land, gaining tens of thousands of followers. The P.P.E. feeds into a device you created, allowing you to effectively have a vast P.P.E. Battery. Then, after a few thousand years, on a High Holy Day, when the the alignments are correct and all of your followers are in attendance at their Shrines and Holy Places, you draw deeply upon them through your Priests, drawing their Life Force (P.P.E.) out of them, killing three million mortals as your power swells and you ascend to become as powerful as the Great Old Ones! (Ok...a stretch, but hey...work with me here).

Or put another way: Alien Intelligence or God, either one should be able to have the type of "Empowered" follower they want.


~ N

According to canon an Alien Intelligence exists with or without followers and does not gain or loose power based on the number of followers while a God comes into existance because of followers and their power is completely based on the number of followers they have. If anything, the only thing that AIs get from followers is an anchor to a particular dimension which allows them to pull themselves into it... like Vampire Intelligences. Thoth which is Xy belives he is a god of the pantheon of light where does it show that any of his stats are based on the number of his followers. Many AIs are worshipped as gods that doesn't turn them into gods which would be a bad state for some of them... it would actually work out well for others (i.e. VIs and Sploogies).

A God therefore would grant their followers powers to either protect the follower or gain additional followers to make the god stronger.

An AI grants powers to strengthen their hold in a given dimension and likely wouldn't be as interested in gaining additional followers once they moved into their desired dimension only allowing their previous witches to maintain their powers to ensure that they can't be banished... easily from the dimension.

A Demon or Deevil grants powers just to create chaos and may convince a good summoner that it is a being of good... after all they lie for a living, then when the summoner takes the pact they become a witch. I'd make my gamer slowly become corrupted as the demonic energy coursed through them.

[Zer0 Kay]

3a. Hmmm, odd that there are even Alien Intelligences that are Weaker than Gods, but hey, they can can still empower Witches while the most powerful Gods can't. Strange. Gods must have Priests, Alien Intelligences must have Witches. Is this written somewhere in the "Scrolls of the Universe?"

With AIs, they don't have different MDC/SDC values. Gods tend to be stronger in their home realms, where as AIs retain their health value whereever they are. And AIs are dependant on worshippers for power, it helps but they don't need it like gods do. In a battle between an AI and a god, if they start destroying each other's followers/minions, the god will be hurting while the AI will be fine.

(Sigh)

True, to a point. However neither Zuvrans nor Thoths MDC is reduced. The specific reason for Zuvran's MDC not being reduced is "His stats are not reduced on Rifts Earth, since he doesn't need worshippers." Thoth...well, lets just say he's special.


Now, I understand that my entire post was "somewhat dry sense of humor," but taken in it's entirety, the point that I was trying to get across was that Alien Intelligences or Gods can empower their worshippers however they want. If one of them wants Priests then so be it. If one of them wants Witches then so be it. If one of them want Politicians (Who are "really evil" ) then so be it.


(Sigh)

Why is it, that you have to defend everything you write, on every Forum on the Internet?


~ N

The point of the OCCs are that the gods can't just do whatever they want. A true god produces priests or shifter. While Demons, Devils and AIs produce shifters or witches. The AI or rather some AIs have the ability to create splinter essences which kind of empower a host... body (i.e. Vampire Masters, Merlyn, Guinivere, The Lady of the lake and Soulless Xombies).