Question - Powers and Level Advancements

[Tearstone]

Okay, So tonight I got into a brief discussion about the advancement of psionics, and really any power or spell in general.

We are of two differing views on the matter.

His view: Whenever a psionic (or any other class) acquires a new power, say Physical Psionicl: Nightvision. Say your character is 3rd level, and you picked it up at first level, the duration lasts 30 minutes (10 min/level). The problem is say, I wanted to pick it up at 3rd level, and not when I first made the character. In his view, the duration would only be 10 minutes at my current level.

His reasoning is thus: It is like a new skill, and thus you don't have as much time or practice with it.

My view is that in this same situation, if I pick the psionic up at 3rd level, I can use it at 3rd level proficiency. Reason being is that my level of experience is 3rd, not first. Also, just because I just now acquired the power, doesn't mean it functions with any lesser capability or clarity. It is 1, a power, and per Palladium's system is inborn, not really learned (which I disagree with). Therefore the power is a thing of genetics, and is created within. 2, Psionic ability is powered from the mind, specifically Mental Endurance. It is your focus, your force of will, your raw mental power. This does not diminish or change, just because you hadn't figured out a certain way to make your eyes change or alter, or gain a new function. Your mind, and will is the same as it was just the day before, and therefore can enforce the changes on your body as you so will. Just because it's new, doesn't mean the ability is diminished, or not as effective.

Also, I have never seen anything in Palladium's rules that makes me think that when you gain a new power, spell, psionic, it starts out at level 1 proficiency regardless of your level. Yes, this is true for skills, but skills and the other are not the same. They take learning, rather than being inborn.

So... how do you guys weigh in on this?

[Tearstone]

Okay, So tonight I got into a brief discussion about the advancement of psionics, and really any power or spell in general.

We are of two differing views on the matter.

His view: Whenever a psionic (or any other class) acquires a new power, say Physical Psionicl: Nightvision. Say your character is 3rd level, and you picked it up at first level, the duration lasts 30 minutes (10 min/level). The problem is say, I wanted to pick it up at 3rd level, and not when I first made the character. In his view, the duration would only be 10 minutes at my current level.

His reasoning is thus: It is like a new skill, and thus you don't have as much time or practice with it.

My view is that in this same situation, if I pick the psionic up at 3rd level, I can use it at 3rd level proficiency. Reason being is that my level of experience is 3rd, not first. Also, just because I just now acquired the power, doesn't mean it functions with any lesser capability or clarity. It is 1, a power, and per Palladium's system is inborn, not really learned (which I disagree with). Therefore the power is a thing of genetics, and is created within. 2, Psionic ability is powered from the mind, specifically Mental Endurance. It is your focus, your force of will, your raw mental power. This does not diminish or change, just because you hadn't figured out a certain way to make your eyes change or alter, or gain a new function. Your mind, and will is the same as it was just the day before, and therefore can enforce the changes on your body as you so will. Just because it's new, doesn't mean the ability is diminished, or not as effective.

Also, I have never seen anything in Palladium's rules that makes me think that when you gain a new power, spell, psionic, it starts out at level 1 proficiency regardless of your level. Yes, this is true for skills, but skills and the other are not the same. They take learning, rather than being inborn.

So... how do you guys weigh in on this?

Another thought on this in regards to magic is thus: Spells are usually formulas that when PPE is introduce to one part of the formula or equation, with proper mindset, or even brainwave pattern, and certain gestures to focus and direct the energy, you get X result.

Spells for the beginning caster are weaker than older counterparts, because their energy is not as condensed, clean, or as focused. To an older mage, a simple spell (Below 5th level) is easy and takes a fraction of their energy, and concentration, partially because they have so much of it, and partially (if you follow the PPE channeling rules) because they can manipulate so much of it at once. The equation does not change, and is neither more or less difficult. It simply is what it is.

[Tearstone]

I talked with my girl about it a little tonight, and I happened to think that maybe my perception is based on playing Dungeons and Dragons a lot, which has the same system.

As it stands, I cant find anything in the rules to support either way.

[St. Evil]

In my group we play it like a new power is affected the same was as an old power w/ per level.

[Killer Cyborg]

Interesting question.
I'd tend to think that psionic powers would generally work like spells, in that the range, duration, and damage would all be based on actual level not the number of levels since the skill was acquired.
But any skills with percentages based on level would operate as skills do, and the percentage would be based on level since the power is gained.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Well, I'd say that they're the level of the psychic (or spell caster if a spell). This is primarily because some psychic powers (spells) specifically say as much.

Examples* include: Psychosomatic Disease (Duration, page 182), Telemechanics (Duration, page 183), Telemechanic Operation (Duration, page 184), Lantern Light (Duration, page 198), Chameleon (Duration, page 199), and Magic Shield (Duration, page 203).

*All examples taken from Rifts Ultimate Edition (R:UE). They either state "per level of the spell caster" (psychic or psionic).

There are two ways to read these examples.

1) These powers have clear wording, and the others follow the same rules. All psychic powers (or all spells) follow the same rules for advancement. This makes it clean and simple (and in my opinion logical).

2) These examples are the exception. All other powers apply to the level selected. So you have two different rules to follow when selecting psionics/spells, and every time you level you have to stop and double check the book to see which rule the specific power follows. This seems messy and complicated (and in my opinion silly).

In my opinion, I'd follow the logic of 1 (that new psionics/spells follow the level of the psychic/spell caster, so a psionic/spell selected at level 4 will still operate at level 4 proficiency). Hopefully a few of the references in book will help. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Cinos]

If I recall, Prysus's example number 1 is the correct and canon response (Though I don't have a direct offering to prove as such). It is also the way I've long since understood them to work and treated them as such (following the same logic Prysus pointed out).

[drewkitty ~..~]

Spells, Psi powers, Racial powers, and hero powers all are based off of 'What level you char is Now".
While I pretty sure there are some exceptions, the above is the standard (a.k.a. canon) way to figure out the effects of the power/spell.

Is not going into the whys and wherefores cause that is drifting into speculation and is not as clear cut as game mechanics.

[Tearstone]

Thanks everybody for the feedback. Glad to have it.