Sigh....this...thread...forces...me...
to suck it up and reply...
Ugh...
Armorlord wrote:jedi078 wrote:First of all a 120mm Sabot round from an M1A1 has depleted urianum core, which means it’s gonna do a heck of a lot more damage then what’s listed in the books. Fact is it’ll do the same amount of damage (if not more) as the Glitter Boy’s boom gun because we are talking about a uranium slug.
No, it doesn't. It does the damage listed, which is a high amount of SD damage, while the Boom Gun does the most amount of kinetic MD damage known to mankind.
Sigh...seriously?
jedi078 wrote:Go ahead do the math, and I think (but don’t quote me on it) a few people already did a few years ago and found that the 120mm Sabot has more kinetic force then a boom gun round.
There is no math to do because we neither live in that dimension, nor do we possess double-talk super-science that is beyond anything we currently understand. Trying to go into this field of argument is beyond pointless. Trying to argue super-science rpg vs real life goes into sadder territory then people trying to argue over which super-science sci-fi setting is stronger than the other. It is pointless wankery over factors that can't really be compared.[/quote]
MD already exists...Kevin's own examples of MD (a tank) prove this...the difference is that there is an exponential increase in tensile strength of materials along with a exponential decrease in the density of these materials. THis is also "real"... theoretical in most cases, but still real enough to be around by RIFTS/ROBOTECH/various other SciFi settings that posit FTL spacecraft are available for purchase by the average upper middle class citizens...
jedi078 wrote:Second the kinetic impact alone (of either a Boom gun or 120mm Sabot) is enough to rupture every organ in the Juicer body even if wearing full EBA. So no your juicer isn’t going to survive getting hit by 120mm sabot round. He might survive getting hit by a 20mm round if in EBA.
If you want this level of 'realism', stop playing with juciers, superhumans, and, in fact, stop playing in MDC settings, superhero games, and avoid magic, the supernatural, and psionics. Why? Bacause you are going to see people survive crazy **** that you may rightly believe normal people in reality should not survive.[/quote]
People survive ridiculous wounds all the time. Saw a guy with half an arm and half a leg get up and outrun a squad of guys trying to catch him...granted he had to go through houses and had about a 50 meter headstart in an urban area...but still it happened. I have also seen people that look like they just went to sleep after taking a relatively minor wound in a vital area and died quickly...internal bleeding and CNS hemmoraging does that... 1 point of SDC to the brain stem is far more deadly than 50 MDC to the hand...thus we have to deal with these numbers as abstractions and guidelines...
jedi078 wrote:Dog_O_War wrote:…Common sense and reality say that no amount of drugs in the world are going to make a person tough enough to survive even a 20mm round anywhere to the body….
You have JUST validated my point of view.....thanks. This is why a Juicer should wear EBA, and utilize those fast reflexes do his/her best not to get shot.
I think you missed his point, the conceits of the setting say that he
is going to survive, whether our impressions think he should or not.[/quote]
Agreed
jedi078 wrote:Dog_O_War wrote:So why is it so hard to believe that this guy could in fact survive a bullet to the melon?
A 130 grain hydra shock .357 round fired by a .357 Magnum revolver with 4 inch barrel length travels at about 1400 feet per second. At point blank range, the juicer doesn’t have a chance. Besides he’s already tied up, so the player might as well just write his character off and roll up a new one.
Ok, really, if you want
that level of realism, you are simply playing the wrong game. I don't mean that to be flippant or snotty. I mean that literally. I love the Megaversal system, and will gladly hump it's leg until my genitals chaffe, but if you want to go into detail about guns, weaponry, and general affect on the body to the point that you can use real world math to come up with meaningful results, you need to go over to my second favorite and take a hard look a GURPS instead. You have to use a system that matches the kind of game you want sometimes instead complaining that chocolate milk doesn't taste like apple juice.[/quote]
Agreed, though for my money, you can turn RIFTS into a death machine by going PE = HP and they never go up, and there is NO SDC for living critters. For normally MDC critters, you can give them PE x 10, or 100 HP or whatever number you want...it makes them scary, but not "shrug off gunshot wounds to the eyeball" retarded...
MegaverseTraveller wrote:I've only had a similar situation happen once to PC (purely through player stupidity and stubbornness), though I have had PCs or NPCs execute many an NPC. I did roll to hit (on a roll of 1 it's a miss fire), and did roll damage (4D6 quadrupled {X2 for a head shot, X2 for a point blank firearm}), if the character took less damage than his HP, he has miraculously survived the shot (this is like the bullet glancing off bone due to bad angle, a grazing, luck, etc.) and is at very least stunned, if not unconscious or in a coma. How they usually turn out is "Bang, Dead".
And that's the way folks should do it, while the number and type of multipliers people agree on vary, if you roll it out they manage to not die outright, more power to them, but for a lot of normal characters it is going to be just that when you roll it out- "Bang, Dead."[/quote]
I don't kill characters, players kill characters...I have had TPK's due to player stupidity, and I have allowed PC's to live due to lucky dice and/or GOOD STORY and CHARACTERIZATION...
The Beast wrote:Dog_O_War wrote:FIREBALL!
Normally I hate it when you pull this crap. This time however it is appropriate when he was shown several RL examples of people surviving what's normally a fatal injury to someone's head and continues to ignore them.[/quote]
As for this...wouldn't a Molotov Cocktail or a Dragonsbreath round in double barrel sawed off shotgun be the analogue of a FIREBALL? Thermite, WP grenades, flamethrowers? The effect is the important thing, right...after all spending 10 years learning how to cast FIREBALL, versus a dollar in gasoline and some thickener (of your choice), a rag, a bottle and a lighter is FAR more economically/temporally affordable than most magic... even in RIFTS. Even if magic were commonplace, most people would still drive cars instead of teleporting or use guns instead of wands...less effort on a personal level using tech than magic. Oddly enough, most people don't take the time to learn to spell, or even use spellcheck...how are they going to master the elemental powers of the universe with their iron will if spelling is too difficult?
-STS