Archie's production capabilities ..

[Lenwen]

To each of your guys best guesses ..

What would you guess .. would be about the "low" or "average" or "high" production capabilities of Archie an his compounds ?

Feel free to use any canon .. or just guesses if you want. I am curious what people think about the lil toaster.

[The Galactus Kid]

in all of his compounds? High. I would say that initially it wasn't really that high,but as he and his robot minions scoured the northeast and recovered/rebuilt/reactivated some, he has drastically increased his capability.

[Grinning Demon]

To each of your guys best guesses ..

What would you guess .. would be about the "low" or "average" or "high" production capabilities of Archie an his compounds ?

Feel free to use any canon .. or just guesses if you want. I am curious what people think about the lil toaster.

high

[Lenwen]

Personally I'd say he has perhaps thee highes production capabilities in North America.

[Giant2005]

I wouldn't like to make a guess.
I have no idea how the hell he gets his resources to make Robots with...
He would have a hard time operating mines unnoticed.

[Lenwen]

I wouldn't like to make a guess.
I have no idea how the hell he gets his resources to make Robots with...
He would have a hard time operating mines unnoticed.

he actually has bots that do go out looking for resources .. specialty built bots .. and a VERY in depth detailed working system for resources ..

The Coalition does not have anything remotely close to how in depth Archie's resource gathering is ..

Yet .. they have unlimited resources .. at the drop of a dime ..

At least archie's resources can be verified an tracked by his bot legions .. lmao

[jaymz]

High and in an odd turn of events I agree with Len that Archie likely has the highest production capabilities if he wanted to pump out at full capacity.

[Dustin Fireblade]

ARCHIE is so big even he can't figure out just how the Republicans are sneaking into, hacking him and mass producing military equipment for their own needs. They have been doing that in a year's time, and using three factories to do it in.

So I'd say he has pretty high manufacturing capability.

[Dr Megaverse]

"Aside from the raw materials needed, Archie manufactures the robots without expense." Merc Town pg 66.

The one thing we know that Rifts Earth has is LOTS of raw materials. The "without expense" part is really where it lies....he manufactures anything he has plans for for FREE. Especially when you factor in that most of his raw materials are also free, this gives him UNLIMITED production capabilities. I haven't read SB1 Revised so I don't know about the NEMA nano factories (if that's what indeed they are) but with this in mind ARCHIE has by far the most unlimited production capabilities in NA. Add in the fact that he can probably reverse engineer and create just about anything that isn't from the 3 Galaxies and he's also the deadliest manufacturer.

[jaymz]

"Aside from the raw materials needed, Archie manufactures the robots without expense." Merc Town pg 66.

The one thing we know that Rifts Earth has is LOTS of raw materials. The "without expense" part is really where it lies....he manufactures anything he has plans for for FREE. Especially when you factor in that most of his raw materials are also free, this gives him UNLIMITED production capabilities. I haven't read SB1 Revised so I don't know about the NEMA nano factories (if that's what indeed they are) but with this in mind ARCHIE has by far the most unlimited production capabilities in NA. Add in the fact that he can probably reverse engineer and create just about anything that isn't from the 3 Galaxies and he's also the deadliest manufacturer.

This is very true since he has reversed engineered the Mechanoid tech to large degree to the point that he has made replica bots of Mechanoid to set loose against Atlantis.

[Nightmask]

"Aside from the raw materials needed, Archie manufactures the robots without expense." Merc Town pg 66.

The one thing we know that Rifts Earth has is LOTS of raw materials. The "without expense" part is really where it lies....he manufactures anything he has plans for for FREE. Especially when you factor in that most of his raw materials are also free, this gives him UNLIMITED production capabilities. I haven't read SB1 Revised so I don't know about the NEMA nano factories (if that's what indeed they are) but with this in mind ARCHIE has by far the most unlimited production capabilities in NA. Add in the fact that he can probably reverse engineer and create just about anything that isn't from the 3 Galaxies and he's also the deadliest manufacturer.

Given ARCHIE-3's been able to produce Mechanoid tech after dealing with them I'd say he could analyze and recreate or assimilate Phase-world tech into his designs other than that which is canonically beyond him (i.e. techno-wizardry and phase tech). He does though definitely for most cases have effectively unlimited resources, just the events after the Tolkeen war alone has left quite a few tons of machinery as scrap for recycling into new products. So the CS just gave him (and anyone else with the skill, inclination, and desire) a lot of free, pre-processed and refined materials to make retooling for his use even easier. No time-consuming digging up raw ores and processing them the CS gave him all sorts of free goods.

He likely is the highest level production entity around, except maybe for Triax since we know they've been having to routinely create new stuff as a result of their ongoing war losses with the Gargoyles so they've got the production pretty highly cranked. I still shudder to think of it creating Glitter Bots armed with Boom guns or a pair of Shemarrian Rail Guns slaved to hit the same target. When it comes to pure destructive potential ARCHIE-3 can create some of the most deadly bots around even by Phase World standards.

[jaymz]

"Aside from the raw materials needed, Archie manufactures the robots without expense." Merc Town pg 66.

The one thing we know that Rifts Earth has is LOTS of raw materials. The "without expense" part is really where it lies....he manufactures anything he has plans for for FREE. Especially when you factor in that most of his raw materials are also free, this gives him UNLIMITED production capabilities. I haven't read SB1 Revised so I don't know about the NEMA nano factories (if that's what indeed they are) but with this in mind ARCHIE has by far the most unlimited production capabilities in NA. Add in the fact that he can probably reverse engineer and create just about anything that isn't from the 3 Galaxies and he's also the deadliest manufacturer.

Given ARCHIE-3's been able to produce Mechanoid tech after dealing with them I'd say he could analyze and recreate or assimilate Phase-world tech into his designs other than that which is canonically beyond him (i.e. techno-wizardry and phase tech). He does though definitely for most cases have effectively unlimited resources, just the events after the Tolkeen war alone has left quite a few tons of machinery as scrap for recycling into new products. So the CS just gave him (and anyone else with the skill, inclination, and desire) a lot of free, pre-processed and refined materials to make retooling for his use even easier. No time-consuming digging up raw ores and processing them the CS gave him all sorts of free goods.

He likely is the highest level production entity around, except maybe for Triax since we know they've been having to routinely create new stuff as a result of their ongoing war losses with the Gargoyles so they've got the production pretty highly cranked. I still shudder to think of it creating Glitter Bots armed with Boom guns or a pair of Shemarrian Rail Guns slaved to hit the same target. When it comes to pure destructive potential ARCHIE-3 can create some of the most deadly bots around even by Phase World standards.

Shemarrian vs a Repo-Bot would be a helluva fight....

[Nightmask]

Shemarrian vs a Repo-Bot would be a helluva fight....

ARCHIE-3 with Repo-Bot tech, even scarier thought. He's already got advanced AI to the point I'm surprised there aren't some Shemarrians going full-on sentient, if he put everything he knows into a set of bots designed for a different set of tasks (all-purpose, specialized heavy infantry, anti-aircraft) and meant to work together it'd be one of the most devastatingly effective units around. Given the chance of encountering Robot Control from Rifts: Mercenaries there'd be a chance of ARCHIE-3 acquiring that drone tech from Naruni Enterprises to analyze and repurpose however he wants, that doesn't even count it getting the other Naruni Robot vehicles and power armor shown and the FF technology. He could easily pay the asking price for enough of those Naruni items to successfully reverse engineer the tech for his own use.

[keir451]

I wouldn't like to make a guess.
I have no idea how the hell he gets his resources to make Robots with...
He would have a hard time operating mines unnoticed.

he actually has bots that do go out looking for resources .. specialty built bots .. and a VERY in depth detailed working system for resources ..

The Coalition does not have anything remotely close to how in depth Archie's resource gathering is ..

Yet .. they have unlimited resources .. at the drop of a dime ..

At least archie's resources can be verified an tracked by his bot legions .. lmao

Could you please detail where it says the CS does not have similar capabilities? Despitet the fact that the Chi-town library contained whole loads of information that covered things from basic stories to technical manuals for creating SAMAS power armor.
As for Archie, he was probably designed with automated mining facilities, but that is just a guess.

[Lenwen]

I wouldn't like to make a guess.
I have no idea how the hell he gets his resources to make Robots with...
He would have a hard time operating mines unnoticed.

he actually has bots that do go out looking for resources .. specialty built bots .. and a VERY in depth detailed working system for resources ..

The Coalition does not have anything remotely close to how in depth Archie's resource gathering is ..

Yet .. they have unlimited resources .. at the drop of a dime ..

At least archie's resources can be verified an tracked by his bot legions .. lmao

Could you please detail where it says the CS does not have similar capabilities? Despitet the fact that the Chi-town library contained whole loads of information that covered things from basic stories to technical manuals for creating SAMAS power armor.
As for Archie, he was probably designed with automated mining facilities, but that is just a guess.

Perhaps you could show me where the CS is stated as having specialty bots .. made specifically for finding new resources?

[keir451]

I wouldn't like to make a guess.
I have no idea how the hell he gets his resources to make Robots with...
He would have a hard time operating mines unnoticed.

he actually has bots that do go out looking for resources .. specialty built bots .. and a VERY in depth detailed working system for resources ..

The Coalition does not have anything remotely close to how in depth Archie's resource gathering is ..

Yet .. they have unlimited resources .. at the drop of a dime ..

At least archie's resources can be verified an tracked by his bot legions .. lmao

Could you please detail where it says the CS does not have similar capabilities? Despite the fact that the Chi-town library contained whole loads of information that covered things from basic stories to technical manuals for creating SAMAS power armor.
As for Archie, he was probably designed with automated mining facilities, but that is just a guess.

Perhaps you could show me where the CS is stated as having specialty bots .. made specifically for finding new resources?

The CS doesn't have/need 'bots for this, they have humans. If they wanted 'bots to do the job they could easily program Skelebots to do so.

[Lenwen]

I wouldn't like to make a guess.
I have no idea how the hell he gets his resources to make Robots with...
He would have a hard time operating mines unnoticed.

he actually has bots that do go out looking for resources .. specialty built bots .. and a VERY in depth detailed working system for resources ..

The Coalition does not have anything remotely close to how in depth Archie's resource gathering is ..

Yet .. they have unlimited resources .. at the drop of a dime ..

At least archie's resources can be verified an tracked by his bot legions .. lmao

Could you please detail where it says the CS does not have similar capabilities? Despite the fact that the Chi-town library contained whole loads of information that covered things from basic stories to technical manuals for creating SAMAS power armor.
As for Archie, he was probably designed with automated mining facilities, but that is just a guess.

Perhaps you could show me where the CS is stated as having specialty bots .. made specifically for finding new resources?

The CS doesn't have/need 'bots for this, they have humans. If they wanted 'bots to do the job they could easily program Skelebots to do so.

Guess that means then ..

Archie has the better resource farming abilities ..

1) - Humans he pays .. to go out farm/look/hunt for new resources ..

2) - Specialty bots he created with the distinct pourposes of finding specific resources ..

3) - Ability to take pre-fabbed finished (but destroyed) materials (skelebot grave yard) an reprocess them into what he wants ..

Coalition has never been stated as having 2 of the 3 points .. yet Archie is known for all 3 .. not to mention the ability to reverse engineer alien tech .. and absorb it into his new designs for his own bots .. (mechanoids tech)

Another thing the CS is incapable of ..

This is just getting embarrasing now for the CS .. against the ability of Archie .. to gather resources .. and process and production ..

[Nightmask]

Perhaps you could show me where the CS is stated as having specialty bots .. made specifically for finding new resources?

The CS doesn't have/need 'bots for this, they have humans. If they wanted 'bots to do the job they could easily program Skelebots to do so.

The Skelebots don't appear to have the design capabilities to be repurposed for things like that, they're designed with killing and destruction in mind unlike the Triax Light Labor Bots requiring just a few circuit boards. Just because they're robots doesn't mean all robots can be programmed to do all things and Skelebots don't look to be designed to ever be switched over to anything else.

[Mallak's Place]

Our group has traded materials and tech with Archie for years (Unknowingly, well the techno-Wizard Knows but isn't telling the rest of the group). The trading has gotten so casual that Archie has started to mass produce electronics based on our Techno-Wizards needs (designed specificaly for use in techno-wizardry)

[keir451]

@Lenwen-
Riiight So the CS, needing to provide for an army of 1 million + soldiers and over 1 million people has no resources and no ability to get said resources despite the fact that they are THE single most high tech nation on the North American continent(their tech already equals anyhting that NEMA had and in sweveral cases exceeds it). If the CS can produce skelebots then they could, indeed reprocess the damaged ones and have indeed made new designs. If the CS so wanted to they could indeed create specialty designs for their 'bots. Archie has yet to understand one tenth of the mechanoids tech, all he's done so far is make few new weapons (not THAT hard as the foundations of ALL plasma, laser & particle beam tech as well as missile tech is the same) and install a USED power crystal (a technology he CANNOT reproduce) in an android design he had in his memory banks(y'know, something designed by HUMANS). He CANNOT effectively imagine new designs WITHOUT a HUMAN partner to provide the imagination. The CS has at least three Mega-cities, each with at least the equivalent production capacity of Archie, if they didn't they would NOT be able to build such a large military force, provide equipment and resupplies for them AND provide for their populace as well. The CS, as the highest tech nation on the continent, has a huge infrastructure, while Archie has none.
Are Archie's production capabilties impressive? Yes. But his capabilities are still less than those of a high tech nation that has what the CS has, they're even less than what we have today.
Just because you don't like the CS is no reason to ignore their very real capabilities.
All you have to do is figure out, logically, what the CS needs to be able to exist as they do. It is stated that the CS HAS survey teams (they've had them for over 100 yrs), they have a library full of information (some of which Archie does NOT have), and they have the ability to produce and arm a million man + military. That tells me that they can and do outstrip Archies abilities, and as they have a continually growing population/military (their threats haven't gone away) they will continue to increase their production capabilities to match.

[keir451]

Perhaps you could show me where the CS is stated as having specialty bots .. made specifically for finding new resources?

The CS doesn't have/need 'bots for this, they have humans. If they wanted 'bots to do the job they could easily program Skelebots to do so.

The Skelebots don't appear to have the design capabilities to be repurposed for things like that, they're designed with killing and destruction in mind unlike the Triax Light Labor Bots requiring just a few circuit boards. Just because they're robots doesn't mean all robots can be programmed to do all things and Skelebots don't look to be designed to ever be switched over to anything else.

A very valid observation. I agree that the standard skelebot is little more than a war machine and that reprogramming them is officiialy a pain in the tuchas. However, I do believe the CS has the capacity to create and program a diffrent design if they so choose. Their only limitation, at this point, is their deisre NOT to do so.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Perhaps you could show me where the CS is stated as having specialty bots .. made specifically for finding new resources?

The CS doesn't have/need 'bots for this, they have humans. If they wanted 'bots to do the job they could easily program Skelebots to do so.

The Skelebots don't appear to have the design capabilities to be repurposed for things like that, they're designed with killing and destruction in mind unlike the Triax Light Labor Bots requiring just a few circuit boards. Just because they're robots doesn't mean all robots can be programmed to do all things and Skelebots don't look to be designed to ever be switched over to anything else.

A very valid observation. I agree that the standard skelebot is little more than a war machine and that reprogramming them is officiialy a pain in the tuchas. However, I do believe the CS has the capacity to create and program a diffrent design if they so choose. Their only limitation, at this point, is their deisre NOT to do so.

why use resources to create something , when you got prisoners to do the work

[keir451]

@Mech-Viper Prime; So the CS just uses prison labor for everything? What about the million+ people they employ? I honestly view the whole slave/prison issue as just pure fluff designed to make the CS seem even worse than the already are.

[Lenwen]

@Lenwen-
Riiight So the CS, needing to provide for an army of 1 million + soldiers and over 1 million people has no resources and no ability to get said resources despite the fact that they are THE single most high tech nation on the North American continent

Canonly speaking .. their resources are just hand waviumed .. into exsistance .. Archie's has been explained out .. And add into that it "COSTS" .. the CS millions .. to produce each of their war machines .. while Archie create's his .. for free ..

@Lenwen-
If the CS can produce skelebots then they could, indeed reprocess the damaged ones and have indeed made new designs. If the CS so wanted to they could indeed create specialty designs for their 'bots.

If that were true .. there would be no Skelebot grave yard .. Yet .. here we are .. with a canon "VAST" Skelebot grave yard .. it is so much easier cost wise .. to reuse .. then it is to recreate ..

Yet here we are .. Reading you giving the CS an ability they have not been said to posses .. (yet again)

@Lenwen-
Archie has yet to understand one tenth of the mechanoids tech, all he's done so far is make few new weapons (not THAT hard as the foundations of ALL plasma, laser & particle beam tech as well as missile tech is the same) and install a USED power crystal (a technology he CANNOT reproduce)

So I guess you just hand waviumed away the factory .. he retooled .. to create more Mechanoid tech .. Just because ?

@Lenwen-
The CS has at least three Mega-cities, each with at least the equivalent production capacity of Archie, if they didn't they would NOT be able to build such a large military force

First - The military force = its military combatents .. from which they got 50% from the burbs .. the other half are actual CS citizens ..

Secondly - If each of those 3 cities had the same production as Archie .. why did it take them 5-10 years to completely revamp their military with new 100% completely new weapons an armors an war machines ?

No .. none of the CS's cities have the same production as Archie alone .. let alone .. all combined .. Sorry ..

@Lenwen-
Just because you don't like the CS is no reason to ignore their very real capabilities.

And just because it appears to be your favorite thing about rifts .. does not mean you can give them abilities .. they clearly do not have ..

@Lenwen-
they have the ability to produce and arm a million man + military

After many years of production .. Yes they do .. that is not that big of a deal really.. Archie can do that in about a quarter of the time .. if that .. his systems cost nothing to run .. he does not need to pay employes .. he can run his systems 24 hrs a day and put out the kind of production that the CS would be envious of ..

[Mech-Viper Prime]

@Mech-Viper Prime; So the CS just uses prison labor for everything? What about the million+ people they employ? I honestly view the whole slave/prison issue as just pure fluff designed to make the CS seem even worse than the already are.

they might might them to do the mining but when it comes to different parts use a paided workforce

[Mech-Viper Prime]

but who knows he could been stockpiling them the whole time gathering resources for an attack force he will never release but just keeps gathering them

[Hystrix]

but who knows he could been stockpiling them the whole time gathering resources for an attack force he will never release but just keeps gathering them

Very possible.

I don't know what Archie's manufacturing capability are if he wanted to go full on building an army of destruction. I do know from the books what he has produced in the last 7 years (102 to 109 PA).

According to the orginal SB1, if you add the numbers Archie had close to 10,000 robots built in 102 PA. Moving to 109, (according to SB1: Revised, and the Shemerrian Nation book) he has about 34,000. Not including bots that are lost or detroyed he produced 24,000 bots in 7 years. Of cource, his facilities were put on hold for a few months (?) with the Mechanoid Invasion, but other than that he's produced that many bots in that time. Or, he produced roughly 3,428 bots per year.

Of course, as erratic as Archie is, he prolly went in spurts in his production. We see a large increase in Shemerrians (including new variant types) is a short amount of time (probably a year or so) where he seemingly made 10,000 or so in a year...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

IF you think about it
he knows where the resources are thru his database, robot drilling machines(no human operator needed), he can have a small mining operations running 24/7 365 only down time is when a machine breaks, each mine could have a small factory for part making on site so, down time is cut even shorter. and no real problems with workers, outsiders discovery one of his mines , the shemarrians removes the outsiders and no one knows

[Dustin Fireblade]

[

Secondly - If each of those 3 cities had the same production as Archie .. why did it take them 5-10 years to completely revamp their military with new 100% completely new weapons an armors an war machines ?

No .. none of the CS's cities have the same production as Archie alone .. let alone .. all combined .. Sorry ..

5-10 years? I'm not so sure about that to be honest. The CS began field testing their new designs in 103 PA, and made them public in 105 PA. I guess we need to know exactly when they began to design them.

Now on CS manufacturing, in the old Sourcebook 1, we had some concrete numbers to work with in regards to Skelebot production -

Chi-Town - 288 a month
Lone Star - 2592 a month.

Sourcebook 1 Revised says the Skelebots were introduced in 102 PA, and then the new model showed up in 105 PA. So about 3 years to design and implement a new design for the CS, this may be something to measure how long it took for the CS to design, test and field all their designs that were revealed in CWC.

Btw, interesting note in the Revised SB1 - page 11. In talking about ARCHIE, his designs and mass production capabilities state that they can beat the CS any day of the week.

That's nothing new to us, but using the CS number's above, we can get some basic idea of just how much he can do.

[Lenwen]

but who knows he could been stockpiling them the whole time gathering resources for an attack force he will never release but just keeps gathering them

Very possible.

I don't know what Archie's manufacturing capability are if he wanted to go full on building an army of destruction. I do know from the books what he has produced in the last 7 years (102 to 109 PA).

According to the orginal SB1, if you add the numbers Archie had close to 10,000 robots built in 102 PA. Moving to 109, (according to SB1: Revised, and the Shemerrian Nation book) he has about 34,000. Not including bots that are lost or detroyed he produced 24,000 bots in 7 years. Of cource, his facilities were put on hold for a few months (?) with the Mechanoid Invasion, but other than that he's produced that many bots in that time. Or, he produced roughly 3,428 bots per year.

Of course, as erratic as Archie is, he prolly went in spurts in his production. We see a large increase in Shemerrians (including new variant types) is a short amount of time (probably a year or so) where he seemingly made 10,000 or so in a year...

That was all done with extreme down time .. sleep time for Archie .. and also while the Republican's were mass producing their own stuff in ONE .. yes ONE .. of his facilities .. using his resources .. which he had no clue was even missing ..

The total of the Republican's production .. in 1,321 hrs .. 3,956 Armors .. this does not include their energy rifles .. or standard armors .. those are just power armors . from 1 of archie's factories .. in durations of little over 6 hrs each time ..

EDIT: Nor does it reflect archie's standard production durring that same time .. of his an hagen's designs ..

[Lenwen]

in the Revised SB1 - page 11. In talking about ARCHIE, his designs and mass production capabilities state that they can beat the CS any day of the week.

That's nothing new to us, but using the CS number's above, we can get some basic idea of just how much he can do.

Which just backs up my whole theory ..

Yes the CS has incredible manufacturing capabilities for its cities ..

Archie was the PRIME .. manufacturer of Nema ... which is Canada , United States , mexico military ..

And as such should be able to dwarf the CS .. by any metric one would be able to concieve ..

[rat_bastard]

Archie can produce as much robots as the story requires.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Yes the CS has incredible manufacturing capabilities for its cities ..

Archie was the PRIME .. manufacturer of Nema ... which is Canada , United States , mexico military ..

I could be wrong, but I thought he was the NEMA C3 center? Manufacturing was a secondary concern?

[Lenwen]

Yes the CS has incredible manufacturing capabilities for its cities ..

Archie was the PRIME .. manufacturer of Nema ... which is Canada , United States , mexico military ..

I could be wrong, but I thought he was the NEMA C3 center? Manufacturing was a secondary concern?

After rereading almost all of the revised ..

Archie = HQ-ECC which is the secrete compound .. and he is also in charge of the maryland underground compound .. (yes two completely dif compounds , yet both linked)

This is how I read it .. tho admittedly .. I may be wrong. Some clarification is needed by a higher authority then myself.

[Grinning Demon]

I want ARCHIE to come across some old TMNT cartoons and build a brain suit like Krang.

[Nightmask]

I want ARCHIE to come across some old TMNT cartoons and build a brain suit like Krang.

ARCHIE-3's too oriented towards being hooked into a factory complex as his body to do that (something explicitly noted about him in the write-up ). Amusing as an idea as that would be, since he could easily build a bot with superior MDC and weapons power for a body. Not that he might not have something like that set-up for escape, and a secondary factory complex at this point.

[jaymz]

@Lenwen-
Riiight So the CS, needing to provide for an army of 1 million + soldiers and over 1 million people has no resources and no ability to get said resources despite the fact that they are THE single most high tech nation on the North American continent(their tech already equals anyhting that NEMA had and in sweveral cases exceeds it). If the CS can produce skelebots then they could, indeed reprocess the damaged ones and have indeed made new designs. If the CS so wanted to they could indeed create specialty designs for their 'bots. Archie has yet to understand one tenth of the mechanoids tech, all he's done so far is make few new weapons (not THAT hard as the foundations of ALL plasma, laser & particle beam tech as well as missile tech is the same) and install a USED power crystal (a technology he CANNOT reproduce) in an android design he had in his memory banks(y'know, something designed by HUMANS). He CANNOT effectively imagine new designs WITHOUT a HUMAN partner to provide the imagination. The CS has at least three Mega-cities, each with at least the equivalent production capacity of Archie, if they didn't they would NOT be able to build such a large military force, provide equipment and resupplies for them AND provide for their populace as well. The CS, as the highest tech nation on the continent, has a huge infrastructure, while Archie has none.
Are Archie's production capabilties impressive? Yes. But his capabilities are still less than those of a high tech nation that has what the CS has, they're even less than what we have today.
Just because you don't like the CS is no reason to ignore their very real capabilities.
All you have to do is figure out, logically, what the CS needs to be able to exist as they do. It is stated that the CS HAS survey teams (they've had them for over 100 yrs), they have a library full of information (some of which Archie does NOT have), and they have the ability to produce and arm a million man + military. That tells me that they can and do outstrip Archies abilities, and as they have a continually growing population/military (their threats haven't gone away) they will continue to increase their production capabilities to match.

Actually Kier as has been stated above by someone else, it states right in SB1 that Archies capabilities out do the CS. That is canon. Furthermore he hasn't just made some weapons based on Mechanoid tech he has replicated whole Mechanoid units (fully automous under his control) and released them at Atlantis. I believe this is mentioned in Splynn and SB1.

[Lenwen]

@Lenwen
Just because you don't like the CS is no reason to ignore their very real capabilities.

You seem to not want the CS beat in any aspect .. ever .. I get that you love the CS with every fiber of your being ..

But that still does not make them what you want them to be .. House rules can tho

[Nightmask]

@Lenwen
Just because you don't like the CS is no reason to ignore their very real capabilities.

You seem to not want the CS beat in any aspect .. ever .. I get that you love the CS with every fiber of your being ..

But that still does not make them what you want them to be .. House rules can tho

Well, one shouldn't include whether or not someone loves or hates something in deciding the validity of their statements. Just because you hate something (if you do) doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong about it when you state something. In this case you can hate the CS yet be quite correct in stating that for all its capabilities they're inferior to ARCHIE-3's capabilities. Having advanced manufacturing capabilities superior to everyone else, a labor force that can run 24/7 without error, and low or no cost for raw materials gives ARCHIE-3 a currently unbeatable edge when it comes to the CS and nearly everyone else.

[keir451]

@Lenwen
Just because you don't like the CS is no reason to ignore their very real capabilities.

You seem to not want the CS beat in any aspect .. ever .. I get that you love the CS with every fiber of your being ..

But that still does not make them what you want them to be .. House rules can tho

Actually, I dislike the CS very much I just get sick and tired of people saying "The CS can't have that!" or "The CS has no resources." or just failing to look beyond the official material and realize that if the CS has everything the official source material says they do then they do INDEED have the resources.
Remember that the CS started in Chicago and built the UAR-1 Enforcer there to defeat the Federation of Magic, then after leaving Chicago they built Chi-town, during this time Erin Tarn visits the Chi-town Library and comes across the info on SAMAS power armor. Later the CS starts to actively produce SAMAS units, also during this time a CS Survey Team looking for oil discovers the TexAm complex granting them access to the Dog boys and Pre-Rifts level manufacturing knowledge and medicine, they then also build CS Lone Star(admittedly a failed project, but they built it all the same). They also now have Arkansas and as of SoT CS Iron Heart, as well as the former teritory of Tolkeen. All this time the CS is producing weapons, armor, skelebots, vehicles and Robot and power armor. Yet supposedly they have no manufacturing abilities nor the resources to pull all of this off. Well guess what you can't do any of that without resources, so logically they DO indeed have access to the resources.
Pg. 28 of the RUE; Chi-Town the Fortress city... "Levels Three through one are the high security government levels. The Chi-Town military, research facilities, and manufacturing plants are all located in this vast lower bowl. Beyond this is the Imperial Sanctum, several (I'm told five) subterranean levels that house the Emperor, his Family, military elite troops, generals and their families. This is also where the top research and science facilities, bionics wing, independent life support and power plants are located, as well as the legendary, allegedly destroyed, great Chi-Town Library."
So Chi-Town alone has three level of factories and manufacturing, add in the other CS cities and Lone Star which covers a 30 mile area (only one factory level but it fills a 30 mile area) and you can see how the CS can actually produce their equipment. Now take into account that the CS is still expanding so they are going to be building MORE fortress cities along the same plan, which means even more factories.
As for Archie being able to run 24/7. well so can the CS, they just set their work shifts to reflect that. Either 3 Eight hour shifts or 2 twelve hour shifts or 6 four hour shifts, basically however they want it. The DO employ over a million people you know.
Archie controls the Alleghent Mountain Fcility (HQ-Echo) and the Pennsylvania Manufacturing Center Number Two, and the Chesapeake Seaport (part of his supply lines). Admittedly not small but the CS equals that and may eventually exceed it.
I also found no mention of Archies Mechanoid tech in either SB1 or Splynn Dimensional Market, I do remember that Titan Robotics and Argent Goodson appear in a Rifter and that Argent has a Mechanoid power crystal installed w/ 50 (?) yrs of life left in it.

[Lenwen]

Well, one shouldn't include whether or not someone loves or hates something in deciding the validity of their statements. Just because you hate something (if you do) doesn't mean you're necessarily wrong about it when you state something. In this case you can hate the CS yet be quite correct in stating that for all its capabilities they're inferior to ARCHIE-3's capabilities. Having advanced manufacturing capabilities superior to everyone else, a labor force that can run 24/7 without error, and low or no cost for raw materials gives ARCHIE-3 a currently unbeatable edge when it comes to the CS and nearly everyone else.

Very well said .

I 100% completely agree !!

[Nightmask]

Actually, I dislike the CS very much I just get sick and tired of people saying "The CS can't have that!" or "The CS has no resources." or just failing to look beyond the official material and realize that if the CS has everything the official source material says they do then they do INDEED have the resources.
Remember that the CS started in Chicago and built the UAR-1 Enforcer there to defeat the Federation of Magic, then after leaving Chicago they built Chi-town, during this time Erin Tarn visits the Chi-town Library and comes across the info on SAMAS power armor. Later the CS starts to actively produce SAMAS units, also during this time a CS Survey Team looking for oil discovers the TexAm complex granting them access to the Dog boys and Pre-Rifts level manufacturing knowledge and medicine, they then also build CS Lone Star(admittedly a failed project, but they built it all the same). They also now have Arkansas and as of SoT CS Iron Heart, as well as the former teritory of Tolkeen. All this time the CS is producing weapons, armor, skelebots, vehicles and Robot and power armor. Yet supposedly they have no manufacturing abilities nor the resources to pull all of this off. Well guess what you can't do any of that without resources, so logically they DO indeed have access to the resources.
Pg. 28 of the RUE; Chi-Town the Fortress city... "Levels Three through one are the high security government levels. The Chi-Town military, research facilities, and manufacturing plants are all located in this vast lower bowl. Beyond this is the Imperial Sanctum, several (I'm told five) subterranean levels that house the Emperor, his Family, military elite troops, generals and their families. This is also where the top research and science facilities, bionics wing, independent life support and power plants are located, as well as the legendary, allegedly destroyed, great Chi-Town Library."
So Chi-Town alone has three level of factories and manufacturing, add in the other CS cities and Lone Star which covers a 30 mile area (only one factory level but it fills a 30 mile area) and you can see how the CS can actually produce their equipment. Now take into account that the CS is still expanding so they are going to be building MORE fortress cities along the same plan, which means even more factories.
As for Archie being able to run 24/7. well so can the CS, they just set their work shifts to reflect that. Either 3 Eight hour shifts or 2 twelve hour shifts or 6 four hour shifts, basically however they want it. The DO employ over a million people you know.
Archie controls the Alleghent Mountain Fcility (HQ-Echo) and the Pennsylvania Manufacturing Center Number Two, and the Chesapeake Seaport (part of his supply lines). Admittedly not small but the CS equals that and may eventually exceed it.
I also found no mention of Archies Mechanoid tech in either SB1 or Splynn Dimensional Market, I do remember that Titan Robotics and Argent Goodson appear in a Rifter and that Argent has a Mechanoid power crystal installed w/ 50 (?) yrs of life left in it.

The CS can't work it 24/7, and definitely not with the precision that ARCHIE-3 can. They also employ those million people in every aspect of society they can't all be expended in manufacturing they have to be doing all the jobs required for a functioning society.

ARCHIE-3 gained his Mechanoids tech in the Mechanoids Sourcebook (since he was accidentally responsible for them being brought to Rifts Earth in the first place). They assumed he was a machine intelligence with goals the same as their own and even retooled part of his factory to produce Mechanoid tech so he didn't just reverse engineer it they gave him full access to their technology. Naturally that's not mentioned in Sourcebook one since that came after (and even in Sourcebook one ARCHIE-3 has tech superior to the CS and superior production).

Much as the CS would like it they aren't up to ARCHIE-3 in either quality or quantity of production and won't be anytime soon, and would fall to ARCHIE-3 if it went after them. But still being pro-human it would either take a threat to ARCHIE-3 existence for it to go after the CS or concluding that it was best for humanity to eliminate the CS as a power and either take over or put someone else in their place.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Sure the CS production cant match archie, but archie has the advantage of info and location, and being able to gather resources with little problems compared to the CS, but then again archie doesnt have to feed people , made housing , paid worker force or deal with problems from from said workforce.
Archie has the advantage of a robotic work force.

[keir451]

Actually, I dislike the CS very much I just get sick and tired of people saying "The CS can't have that!" or "The CS has no resources." or just failing to look beyond the official material and realize that if the CS has everything the official source material says they do then they do INDEED have the resources.
Remember that the CS started in Chicago and built the UAR-1 Enforcer there to defeat the Federation of Magic, then after leaving Chicago they built Chi-town, during this time Erin Tarn visits the Chi-town Library and comes across the info on SAMAS power armor. Later the CS starts to actively produce SAMAS units, also during this time a CS Survey Team looking for oil discovers the TexAm complex granting them access to the Dog boys and Pre-Rifts level manufacturing knowledge and medicine, they then also build CS Lone Star(admittedly a failed project, but they built it all the same). They also now have Arkansas and as of SoT CS Iron Heart, as well as the former teritory of Tolkeen. All this time the CS is producing weapons, armor, skelebots, vehicles and Robot and power armor. Yet supposedly they have no manufacturing abilities nor the resources to pull all of this off. Well guess what you can't do any of that without resources, so logically they DO indeed have access to the resources.
Pg. 28 of the RUE; Chi-Town the Fortress city... "Levels Three through one are the high security government levels. The Chi-Town military, research facilities, and manufacturing plants are all located in this vast lower bowl. Beyond this is the Imperial Sanctum, several (I'm told five) subterranean levels that house the Emperor, his Family, military elite troops, generals and their families. This is also where the top research and science facilities, bionics wing, independent life support and power plants are located, as well as the legendary, allegedly destroyed, great Chi-Town Library."
So Chi-Town alone has three level of factories and manufacturing, add in the other CS cities and Lone Star which covers a 30 mile area (only one factory level but it fills a 30 mile area) and you can see how the CS can actually produce their equipment. Now take into account that the CS is still expanding so they are going to be building MORE fortress cities along the same plan, which means even more factories.
As for Archie being able to run 24/7. well so can the CS, they just set their work shifts to reflect that. Either 3 Eight hour shifts or 2 twelve hour shifts or 6 four hour shifts, basically however they want it. The DO employ over a million people you know.
Archie controls the Alleghent Mountain Fcility (HQ-Echo) and the Pennsylvania Manufacturing Center Number Two, and the Chesapeake Seaport (part of his supply lines). Admittedly not small but the CS equals that and may eventually exceed it.
I also found no mention of Archies Mechanoid tech in either SB1 or Splynn Dimensional Market, I do remember that Titan Robotics and Argent Goodson appear in a Rifter and that Argent has a Mechanoid power crystal installed w/ 50 (?) yrs of life left in it.

The CS can't work it 24/7, and definitely not with the precision that ARCHIE-3 can. They also employ those million people in every aspect of society they can't all be expended in manufacturing they have to be doing all the jobs required for a functioning society.

ARCHIE-3 gained his Mechanoids tech in the Mechanoids Sourcebook (since he was accidentally responsible for them being brought to Rifts Earth in the first place). They assumed he was a machine intelligence with goals the same as their own and even retooled part of his factory to produce Mechanoid tech so he didn't just reverse engineer it they gave him full access to their technology. Naturally that's not mentioned in Sourcebook one since that came after (and even in Sourcebook one ARCHIE-3 has tech superior to the CS and superior production).

Much as the CS would like it they aren't up to ARCHIE-3 in either quality or quantity of production and won't be anytime soon, and would fall to ARCHIE-3 if it went after them. But still being pro-human it would either take a threat to ARCHIE-3 existence for it to go after the CS or concluding that it was best for humanity to eliminate the CS as a power and either take over or put someone else in their place.

Incorrect Sir.

Pg. 35 CWC...For example, the Chi-Town military employs 1.2 million citizens in their factories and facilites alone.

So the CS can and does indeed employ those 1.2 million on manufacturing and facilities so they could indeed expend them all on shifts like I proposed, heck our own corporations already do that today.
Do you know which Rifter Titan Robotics and Argent appeared in? I don't remember so I don't quote anything from there becasue I want to be sure of what I'm referencing.

[Nightmask]

The CS can't work it 24/7, and definitely not with the precision that ARCHIE-3 can. They also employ those million people in every aspect of society they can't all be expended in manufacturing they have to be doing all the jobs required for a functioning society.

ARCHIE-3 gained his Mechanoids tech in the Mechanoids Sourcebook (since he was accidentally responsible for them being brought to Rifts Earth in the first place). They assumed he was a machine intelligence with goals the same as their own and even retooled part of his factory to produce Mechanoid tech so he didn't just reverse engineer it they gave him full access to their technology. Naturally that's not mentioned in Sourcebook one since that came after (and even in Sourcebook one ARCHIE-3 has tech superior to the CS and superior production).

Much as the CS would like it they aren't up to ARCHIE-3 in either quality or quantity of production and won't be anytime soon, and would fall to ARCHIE-3 if it went after them. But still being pro-human it would either take a threat to ARCHIE-3 existence for it to go after the CS or concluding that it was best for humanity to eliminate the CS as a power and either take over or put someone else in their place.

Incorrect Sir.

That's a bit too broad-ranging a statement when you seem to only question the idea of how many the CS has in its production facilities, and not all those numbers are going to actually be producing anything (even the CS is subject to graft, corruption, and layabouts doing little and messing up things that require reworking). ARCHIE-3 still wins out when it comes to production, both quality and quantity, and the CS isn't going to catch up anytime soon. There's a lot more of the country for ARCHIE-3 to work in and he's had a lot more time to build things up, much like how Free Quebec carefully built up and concealed its own possession of Glitter Boy manufacturing letting it over centuries to backstock thousands of GB. ARCHIE-3's had far more available to it and been in the position to stockpile far more over time, since bots are easy to just park until needed just have to run routine inspections and power core replacements at the end of their life span.

Pg. 35 CWC...For example, the Chi-Town military employs 1.2 million citizens in their factories and facilites alone.

So the CS can and does indeed employ those 1.2 million on manufacturing and facilities so they could indeed expend them all on shifts like I proposed, heck our own corporations already do that today.
Do you know which Rifter Titan Robotics and Argent appeared in? I don't remember so I don't quote anything from there becasue I want to be sure of what I'm referencing.

No idea, but the acquisition of Mechanoid technology is not from any Rifter but the core Sourcebook for Mechanoids in Rifts, and the Rifter material is treated as canon and referenced in later Rifts books when ARCHIE-3 comes up.

[Lenwen]

So the CS can and does indeed employ those 1.2 million on manufacturing and facilities so they could indeed expend them all on shifts like I proposed, heck our own corporations already do that today.
Do you know which Rifter Titan Robotics and Argent appeared in? I don't remember so I don't quote anything from there becasue I want to be sure of what I'm referencing.

the 1.2 million is EVERYTHING .. not just the manufacturing aspect .. that is to include the support roles TO .. the manufacturing plants ..

That is common sense.

[grandmaster z0b]

Archie represents the possibilities of golden age, completely mechanised factories. A modern factory needs hundreds of other processing plants to turn raw resources into materials that the factory can use. It seems that Archie simply needs the raw materials and can make virtually anything he wants. This suggests nano-technology that can build complex compunds from basic elements. I would also guess that he can probably use similar technology extract the elements he needs from other compounds and materials with ease.

The CS probably has some of this tech, but nothing on the scale of Archie.

[keir451]

Apologies for being too vague, you're right I should have been more specific. I have the Mechanoid sourcebook and referenced it recently when trying to find out how much of their tech Archie understands, it didn't help much.
In regards to CS graft and corruption, as far as I know it is fairly limited and dealt with rather harshly by the CS, they'll kill you if you're caught using SAMAS's (both the New West types and the old ones). The penalty for many crimes in the CS is death, this includes Subversive activities to First degree murder, CWC pg. 29. Graft and such could wind up being classified as "Treason", failure to construct a part correctly could cause the death of a soldier resulting in a Murder charge.
Also "The majority of the working class population regards the army as a valuable asset and a source of national pride." CWC pg. 35. Those people would take it as an insult if one of their own skimped on some parts or tried to sell some stuff on the Black Market. The poorest residents tho', would if they get a chance.

[Lenwen]

@Lenwen-
All you have to do is figure out, logically, what the CS needs to be able to exist as they do. It is stated that the CS HAS survey teams (they've had them for over 100 yrs), they have a library full of information (some of which Archie does NOT have)

[/quote]
Sorry I been hunting for this quote for a while now ..

The fact of the matter is .. the CS library .. was in fact SEEDED .. by the republican's .. with samas technological information/production over views and everything ..

That is canon .. so in essense .. with out Archie's manuals .. (on everything) and the republican's planting the information in the CS library ..

The CS .. would never have risen .. to the power they became ..

[keir451]

So the CS can and does indeed employ those 1.2 million on manufacturing and facilities so they could indeed expend them all on shifts like I proposed, heck our own corporations already do that today.
Do you know which Rifter Titan Robotics and Argent appeared in? I don't remember so I don't quote anything from there becasue I want to be sure of what I'm referencing.

the 1.2 million is EVERYTHING .. not just the manufacturing aspect .. that is to include the support roles TO .. the manufacturing plants ..

That is common sense.

So you ignore the clear "canon" reference to them being employed "in their factories and facilites alone." direct from the pages of the Coalition War Campaign? That's strictly their factories and facilities, "This includes everything from the production of military uniforms, medals, munitions, weapons, armor, robots, and armored vehicles to microships, parts and widgets for just about everything." CWC pg.35. This is SOLELY for the Military, not for the civilian sectors.