Fair fight .. or not ? You call it .

[Lenwen]

10th lvl T man verses .. 15th lvl Three 15th lvl IAR-3 Skull Smasher Pilots (in their Skull smasher)

To the Death..

Fair fight .. or not ?

[Lenwen]

So many variables. Gear of the T-Man, distance engagement begins, terrain. At this time I will say maybe.

Standard gear for the lvl of the T-man.

In an Arena like the Colosseum . Complete with fake floors and mini maze ..

[taalismn]

I don' know I'd say the skull smashers, I mean 3 vs 1, while the T-Man is pounding on 1 the other 2 unload on the T-man.

If I read the OP correctly, it's ONE Skullsmasher and its three-man crew.
It would be THREE separate armored units and a bit more interesting fight if it was three Glitterboy Killers against the T-Man.

[Mack]

Considering the Skull Smasher is short two crew (3 vs 5), the robot is severely handicapped. Based on the limited crew duties presented on CWC p137, you get the following:
-- Pilot: shoots the forearm guns
-- Co-pilot: no offensive role listed
-- Gunner (1 of 2): shoots either the laser & missiles, or the particle beam

GM's call needed on variations to that.

Likewise, the T-man's tattoo selection will be important. (Who knows, maybe he has 24 variations of SDC knives?) His best bet is to use a few monster tattoos (which are horribly broken and ripe for abuse). However, if the Smasher crew is smart they'll ignore the beasts and just hammer the T-man.

One can be sure that the Smasher is going to go for a quick kill, such as a volley of 4 medium range missiles. Depending on the missile type, that could inflict 5D6x10 each for an average of 700 MD. More likely it would be one of the common types inflicting 3D6x10 each, for an average of 420 MD. Either way, that's going to be pretty hard to counter, especially if the Smasher wins the initiative.

Overall there's a lot of variables, but I give the Smasher the win. The missiles (both medium and mini) allow it several vicious alpha strikes that I don't see a way for the T-man to overcome (unless he's granted some equipment that wasn't in the original post).

[Grinning Demon]

I'd also give it to the Skull Smasher because it has more MDC and can reliably do more damage for a long period of time. Sure the invulnerability tattoo at 10th gives you 750 MDC, and the lightning bolt tattoo is doing 7d6 at 10th level for 10 minutes. But 7d6 a pop against 990 MDC is nothing, so the Skull Smasher just keeps hitting the t man, depleted his MDC and eventually all his PPE. Monster tattoos would also really deplete the t man's PPE and again wouldn't do nearly enough damage to the Skull Smasher. The Skull Smasher (in addition to medium range and mini missiles) has the laser cannon and particle cannon, both which are effectively unlimited. The only thing the T man could really do is fly away haha.

[Galroth]

I'd also give it to the Skull Smasher because it has more MDC and can reliably do more damage for a long period of time. Sure the invulnerability tattoo at 10th gives you 750 MDC, and the lightning bolt tattoo is doing 7d6 at 10th level for 10 minutes. But 7d6 a pop against 990 MDC is nothing, so the Skull Smasher just keeps hitting the t man, depleted his MDC and eventually all his PPE. Monster tattoos would also really deplete the t man's PPE and again wouldn't do nearly enough damage to the Skull Smasher. The Skull Smasher (in addition to medium range and mini missiles) has the laser cannon and particle cannon, both which are effectively unlimited. The only thing the T man could really do is fly away haha.

The Invul tattoo isn't a one off though. He can reactivate it depending on PPE. On a Ley Line or with the equipment you'd expect a 10th level character to have the T-Man stands a pretty decent chance especially if they start off fairly close to one another.

[Grinning Demon]

I'd also give it to the Skull Smasher because it has more MDC and can reliably do more damage for a long period of time. Sure the invulnerability tattoo at 10th gives you 750 MDC, and the lightning bolt tattoo is doing 7d6 at 10th level for 10 minutes. But 7d6 a pop against 990 MDC is nothing, so the Skull Smasher just keeps hitting the t man, depleted his MDC and eventually all his PPE. Monster tattoos would also really deplete the t man's PPE and again wouldn't do nearly enough damage to the Skull Smasher. The Skull Smasher (in addition to medium range and mini missiles) has the laser cannon and particle cannon, both which are effectively unlimited. The only thing the T man could really do is fly away haha.

The Invul tattoo isn't a one off though. He can reactivate it depending on PPE. On a Ley Line or with the equipment you'd expect a 10th level character to have the T-Man stands a pretty decent chance especially if they start off fairly close to one another.

I'm aware of this. A typical t man at 10th will have a little over 200 PPE, 40 PPE a pop for the invulnerability tattoo. As I said above, the Skull Smasher just keeps blasting the T-man til he runs out of PPE. Lenwen said this isn't on a ley line, that would give a huge advantage to the t man.

[Galroth]

I'd also give it to the Skull Smasher because it has more MDC and can reliably do more damage for a long period of time. Sure the invulnerability tattoo at 10th gives you 750 MDC, and the lightning bolt tattoo is doing 7d6 at 10th level for 10 minutes. But 7d6 a pop against 990 MDC is nothing, so the Skull Smasher just keeps hitting the t man, depleted his MDC and eventually all his PPE. Monster tattoos would also really deplete the t man's PPE and again wouldn't do nearly enough damage to the Skull Smasher. The Skull Smasher (in addition to medium range and mini missiles) has the laser cannon and particle cannon, both which are effectively unlimited. The only thing the T man could really do is fly away haha.

The Invul tattoo isn't a one off though. He can reactivate it depending on PPE. On a Ley Line or with the equipment you'd expect a 10th level character to have the T-Man stands a pretty decent chance especially if they start off fairly close to one another.

I'm aware of this. A typical t man at 10th will have a little over 200 PPE, 40 PPE a pop for the invulnerability tattoo. As I said above, the Skull Smasher just keeps blasting the T-man til he runs out of PPE. Lenwen said this isn't on a ley line, that would give a huge advantage to the t man.

Standing under the Skull Smasher should help against missile attacks and allow the T-man to work on disabling the laser and particle cannon which would nueter the robot. Now if he can survive long enough to accomplish that is another matter.

[Grinning Demon]

I'd also give it to the Skull Smasher because it has more MDC and can reliably do more damage for a long period of time. Sure the invulnerability tattoo at 10th gives you 750 MDC, and the lightning bolt tattoo is doing 7d6 at 10th level for 10 minutes. But 7d6 a pop against 990 MDC is nothing, so the Skull Smasher just keeps hitting the t man, depleted his MDC and eventually all his PPE. Monster tattoos would also really deplete the t man's PPE and again wouldn't do nearly enough damage to the Skull Smasher. The Skull Smasher (in addition to medium range and mini missiles) has the laser cannon and particle cannon, both which are effectively unlimited. The only thing the T man could really do is fly away haha.

The Invul tattoo isn't a one off though. He can reactivate it depending on PPE. On a Ley Line or with the equipment you'd expect a 10th level character to have the T-Man stands a pretty decent chance especially if they start off fairly close to one another.

I'm aware of this. A typical t man at 10th will have a little over 200 PPE, 40 PPE a pop for the invulnerability tattoo. As I said above, the Skull Smasher just keeps blasting the T-man til he runs out of PPE. Lenwen said this isn't on a ley line, that would give a huge advantage to the t man.

Standing under the Skull Smasher should help against missile attacks and allow the T-man to work on disabling the laser and particle cannon which would nueter the robot. Now if he can survive long enough to accomplish that is another matter.

Well then the skull smasher can always move and fire missiles, also -4 to strike still makes those hard targets

[Lenwen]

Considering the Skull Smasher is short two crew (3 vs 5), the robot is severely handicapped. Based on the limited crew duties presented on CWC p137, you get the following:
-- Pilot: shoots the forearm guns
-- Co-pilot: no offensive role listed
-- Gunner (1 of 2): shoots either the laser & missiles, or the particle beam

GM's call needed on variations to that.

Likewise, the T-man's tattoo selection will be important. (Who knows, maybe he has 24 variations of SDC knives?) His best bet is to use a few monster tattoos (which are horribly broken and ripe for abuse). However, if the Smasher crew is smart they'll ignore the beasts and just hammer the T-man.

One can be sure that the Smasher is going to go for a quick kill, such as a volley of 4 medium range missiles. Depending on the missile type, that could inflict 5D6x10 each for an average of 700 MD. More likely it would be one of the common types inflicting 3D6x10 each, for an average of 420 MD. Either way, that's going to be pretty hard to counter, especially if the Smasher wins the initiative.

Overall there's a lot of variables, but I give the Smasher the win. The missiles (both medium and mini) allow it several vicious alpha strikes that I don't see a way for the T-man to overcome (unless he's granted some equipment that wasn't in the original post).

doh i was going off of memories .. I did intend it to be a full Smasher crew .. My apologies . hehe

[Giant2005]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

[Lenwen]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

[DBX]

10th lvl T man verses .. 15th lvl Three 15th lvl IAR-3 Skull Smasher Pilots (in their Skull smasher)

To the Death..

Fair fight .. or not ?

going by our gaming experience

NOT a fair fight

high level t-men will nearly always win in any type of combat

[Giant2005]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

Well, your average T-man is going to lose no matter what tattoos he takes.
What I was meaning by a Munchkinned T-man would be one with exceptional Strength (61 or higher, not a hard feat for a munchkin) who used to be an Ancient Weapons Master from PU2 so he can fire multiple arrows per shot. Give him a tattoo bow and the force arrows that inflict PS damage, he could be doing 4D6+40MD per melee attack. That should destroy the Robot long before he runs out of PPE from using his Invulnerability Tattoo repeatedly.

[Looonatic]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

Well, your average T-man is going to lose no matter what tattoos he takes.
What I was meaning by a Munchkinned T-man would be one with exceptional Strength (61 or higher, not a hard feat for a munchkin) who used to be an Ancient Weapons Master from PU2 so he can fire multiple arrows per shot. Give him a tattoo bow and the force arrows that inflict PS damage, he could be doing 4D6+40MD per melee attack. That should destroy the Robot long before he runs out of PPE from using his Invulnerability Tattoo repeatedly.

It's not a question of whether he'd win or lose, but whether it's a fair fight.

As for me, if I were playing a T-man, I wouldn't fight from range. I'd summon a monster or two as a diversion and close to melee range where most of the robot's weapons would be useless. Then I'd kneecap the thing. Once it's a one-legged bot in an ass-kicking contest, I'd seek out the hatch to the pilot's compartment and open up myself a big can of sardines.

The secret to beating a giant robot is not to fight like a giant robot.

[Giant2005]

It's not a question of whether he'd win or lose, but whether it's a fair fight.

I have trouble considering anything that isn't fighting a clone of itself a fair fight.
Unless it is an eternal battle that lasts until infinity, someone is going to win and they can only win because in some way or another, the advantage lay with them. If one side has an advantage, it is never fair.

[Lenwen]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

Well, your average T-man is going to lose no matter what tattoos he takes.
What I was meaning by a Munchkinned T-man would be one with exceptional Strength (61 or higher, not a hard feat for a munchkin) who used to be an Ancient Weapons Master from PU2 so he can fire multiple arrows per shot. Give him a tattoo bow and the force arrows that inflict PS damage, he could be doing 4D6+40MD per melee attack. That should destroy the Robot long before he runs out of PPE from using his Invulnerability Tattoo repeatedly.

It's not a question of whether he'd win or lose, but whether it's a fair fight.

Bingo .. Its not about who wins .

[Looonatic]

It's not a question of whether he'd win or lose, but whether it's a fair fight.

I have trouble considering anything that isn't fighting a clone of itself a fair fight.
Unless it is an eternal battle that lasts until infinity, someone is going to win and they can only win because in some way or another, the advantage lay with them. If one side has an advantage, it is never fair.

Sometimes you have to make your advantage.

[taalismn]

[It's not a question of whether he'd win or lose, but whether it's a fair fight.

Bingo .. Its not about who wins .[/quote]


I thought it was about who gets to drink out of whose skull at the end that counts?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Takes up a physiofical approach to answering the question....

It is a fair fight if there is no interference from the outside of the fight.

Now if you are you asking "Is this an evenly matched flight?" That is a whole other question. But I think it is the one you meant to ask.

[Lenwen]

Takes up a physiofical approach to answering the question....

It is a fair fight if there is no interference from the outside of the fight.

Now if you are you asking "Is this an evenly matched flight?" That is a whole other question. But I think it is the one you meant to ask.

taking up a physioclerificational aspect ..

Yes that is what I mean

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was the typo daemon of swanky town when it had an suburb here in the boards, cause of my horrible spelling.

[Lenwen]

What Tattoos does the T-man have?

All the best Tat's of course .. among others. Do you want me to name the best Tats ?

Is he a normal T-man or a version of the T-men?

T-Man. Not archer .. or Tmonster man or a maxi man .. Just a T-man.

So are all the crew members inside the skull smasher 15th level?

Yes.

What is the area they are fighting in like?

The Collusium in Rome.

Are the CS boy combat vets that know of the "true" depth ofa magic users powers?

Yes. (but remember .. they have never seen a T-man. no one outside of atlantis even knows about that entire line of casters)

Is our T-men a Sploogy, slave or a runaway?

He is a gladiator. Owned by a Highlord.

More details give a better answer as it stands, Numbers are on the Skull smashers side, though the T-men will most likely take two and crew to hell with him. So Yeah fair fight.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

the CS forces line up and let loose , t-man body parts mixed in with the crowds' body parts

[Grinning Demon]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

Well, your average T-man is going to lose no matter what tattoos he takes.
What I was meaning by a Munchkinned T-man would be one with exceptional Strength (61 or higher, not a hard feat for a munchkin) who used to be an Ancient Weapons Master from PU2 so he can fire multiple arrows per shot. Give him a tattoo bow and the force arrows that inflict PS damage, he could be doing 4D6+40MD per melee attack. That should destroy the Robot long before he runs out of PPE from using his Invulnerability Tattoo repeatedly.

Well that's only munchkining one side. Say the three pilots of the Skull Smasher are Psi-Nullifiers...bye bye T Man

[Lenwen]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

Well, your average T-man is going to lose no matter what tattoos he takes.
What I was meaning by a Munchkinned T-man would be one with exceptional Strength (61 or higher, not a hard feat for a munchkin) who used to be an Ancient Weapons Master from PU2 so he can fire multiple arrows per shot. Give him a tattoo bow and the force arrows that inflict PS damage, he could be doing 4D6+40MD per melee attack. That should destroy the Robot long before he runs out of PPE from using his Invulnerability Tattoo repeatedly.

Well that's only munchkining one side. Say the three pilots of the Skull Smasher are Psi-Nullifiers...bye bye T Man

Psi-Nullifiers are not permitted to learn RPA are they ?

[Looonatic]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

Well, your average T-man is going to lose no matter what tattoos he takes.
What I was meaning by a Munchkinned T-man would be one with exceptional Strength (61 or higher, not a hard feat for a munchkin) who used to be an Ancient Weapons Master from PU2 so he can fire multiple arrows per shot. Give him a tattoo bow and the force arrows that inflict PS damage, he could be doing 4D6+40MD per melee attack. That should destroy the Robot long before he runs out of PPE from using his Invulnerability Tattoo repeatedly.

Well that's only munchkining one side. Say the three pilots of the Skull Smasher are Psi-Nullifiers...bye bye T Man

Psi-Nullifiers are not permitted to learn RPA are they ?

Well we know that Psi-Bat trains master psychics with CS military OOCs. I don't see why not an RPA.

But I would also like to point out that just as psionics can't work on pilots of robots, a psionic pilot wouldn't be able to use his powers from inside his robot. So I don't see how Psi-Nullifiers would have any advantage at all except maybe for increased survivability if the robot gets totaled.

[Giant2005]

There are way too many variables to properly call this one.
Basically I think it goes like this: In a fair and balanced game the win goes to the Robot but the T-man has much more room for Munchkinism. If we really tried, making a T-man capable of killing the bot fairly easily wouldn't be a challenge but he wouldn't be the norm either.

Could you give examples of both perhaps ?

Well, your average T-man is going to lose no matter what tattoos he takes.
What I was meaning by a Munchkinned T-man would be one with exceptional Strength (61 or higher, not a hard feat for a munchkin) who used to be an Ancient Weapons Master from PU2 so he can fire multiple arrows per shot. Give him a tattoo bow and the force arrows that inflict PS damage, he could be doing 4D6+40MD per melee attack. That should destroy the Robot long before he runs out of PPE from using his Invulnerability Tattoo repeatedly.

Well that's only munchkining one side. Say the three pilots of the Skull Smasher are Psi-Nullifiers...bye bye T Man

I only munchkinned one side because imo, the Robot already has the advantage. The T-man needs munckinned to balance it out.

[Franfrickle]

Personally I believe it all comes down to how the GM and PC handle the characters during the actual encounter and yes I do believe it can be an evenly matched fight. I'm going to assume that the Skull Smasher and crew are being handled by the GM and the T-man is RP'd by a PC.

Everyone makes a mistake in roleplaying or forgets some keypoint in their plan during the excitement of an encounter occassionally, sure we can all sit here and take the time to think of the best course of action for either side, but put this in a game session with other players waiting to get into their own action or whatever and the PC trying to come up with something quick before the GM gets tired of waiting for every action to be carefully thought out. The dice rolls will also have a big impact on this. Sometimes its just not your night rolling the dice, no matter how many different ones you try rolling hoping for one that won't betray you. An example; the other players and myself, sat back while our friend with a 1st lvl human Mystic Knight with average stats and nothing exceptional outside of its start up gear, walked all over the Lanotaur Hunter that the Gm had set up for a chance encounter. It just wasn't the GM's night to roll dice and it didn't hurt that the PC rolled a few 20's on called head shots.

[Lenwen]

Personally I believe it all comes down to how the GM and PC handle the characters during the actual encounter
I'm going to assume that the Skull Smasher and crew are being handled by the GM and the T-man is RP'd by a PC.

The dice rolls will also have a big impact on this.

An example; the other players and myself, sat back while our friend with a 1st lvl human Mystic Knight with average stats and nothing exceptional outside of its start up gear, walked all over the Lanotaur Hunter that the Gm had set up for a chance encounter.

I agree ..GM is playing the Skull smasher an the PC is handling the Tman.

I completely agree with this ..

And your example . Tho understood .. is not that bad of a matchup for a MK .. they are incredibly powerful .. even at lvl 1 .. even with standard starting gear .. They are powerhouses ..

[Noon]

Lenwen, perhaps have some faith in your own idea of a fair fight, but at the same time realise it's not going to match everyone elses idea of one.

That or if your going to give up on maintaining your own idea of it, ask the players what they think is fair then just use that.

Doesn't matter what an internet forum thinks, in that case, only what your players think.

[Subjugator]

I tend to think the T-Man would lose, if for no other reason than the sheer volume of attacks he'd have to suffer whereas the robot vehicle pilot can dedicate all of his actions to dodging.

/Sub