spell progression for LLW

[drewkitty ~..~]

If you do not like what has become the standard "+1 spell of a level =to or below the level of the mage" for leveling your mages. You could use the Mystic Study, in HU2, Level up format. This is one of the reasons why most of my mages are Mystic Studies.

[Athos]

I've read the Book of Magic "tips for GMs" on how to be sure Ley Line Walkers get spells, and the "pursuit of magic" section in RUE.

What I'm looking for is other players or GMs who have "been there, done that" with regard to LLW (and other magic users) gaining spells above and beyond the allotted few per level (for LLW it's one of choice <= level + one "rift or ley line" related spell from the list if they commune with a line).

So, anyone with any experiences to share about how often/much they gained spells or granted opportunities to pursue them? After all, it seems to me that spells ARE a LLW's "bread and butter"...

On another note, how does anyone afford the obscenely expensive TW or magic items? Is it just me, or do magic versions of items that perform similarly to tech versions cost orders of magnitude more than the tech ones?

Thanks in advance for all replies

The magic system in Rifts is not well thought out. Spells are too expensive and take too long to acquire. I have a house rule that spells take level x 2 hours to learn, not level x 2 days to learn as it says in RUE, this means an 8th level spell can be learned in 2 8 hour days, not 16 days, which makes it a LOT easier for mages to acquire new spells. The party may wait for 2 days for the mage, but they sure as hell aren't going to give up weeks for him to learn one new spell. I also let the spells you gain when you level be learned automatically, you don't have to spend money or time on them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I'll have to note that the presumption is that the level up spells for learned mages are the result of ongoing study of magic. Or another way to say it would be the level up spells are those that they would studying about before they reached that level of exp.
They are not "automatic".

[Prince Artemis]

Yeah, pretty much what drewkitty said. The spells gained at levels are essentially 'eureka' moments for the mage who was studying magic in general and a moment of inspiration strikes the mage that allows him to unlock how the spell works.

As for the learning time, I don't think that the book stated one is wrong, since magic is very powerful and you can't lose it, so even when buying them there should be a learning period. However, we eventually house ruled it to this:

Learning time = (48 hours * level)/(IQ/2) + perception

So, a smarter mage has an easier time figuring it out than anything from the get go and certain mages who get perception for magic figure things out quicker, plus he higher the level of the mage, the easier it is for them to figure it out.

So, under that equation, if joe the TW with an iq of 20 and +2 to perception buys a level 6 spell. That's normally 12 days, or 288 hours of study to get it, but it's divided by 12 (10 iq factor + 2 perception), so it only takes him 24 hours to learn.

It's important to note though, that this is broken up into hours instead of days. So it could still take him two weeks if he only studies it for a few hours a day, or it could be within 2 if he dedicated all his waking time towards it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Question for PA.
Is the equation...
48 hours x level
----------------- +perception= X
IQ / 2

Or

48 hours x spell level
-----------------= X
(IQ / 2)+perception
?

If the second option it should be written like (48 hours x spell level)/ [(IQ/2)+perception]=X
Sorry, but with math they way you write the equation has to follow exacting rules. And if you change things about or leave stuff out you change the equation.

PS
though of another question.
is the "preseption" the mage's preception bonus or is it a perception roll for that chunk of time?

[Grandil]

One way to look at it is Through the Looking Glass for Nightbane. What about that?

[drewkitty ~..~]

One way to look at it is Through the Looking Glass for Nightbane. What about that?

I use the spell mod/create rules for spells the mage is specifically researching. Besides, it takes months of time to research spells like that, taking time out of adventuring to do it.

[Grandil]

One way to look at it is Through the Looking Glass for Nightbane. What about that?

I use the spell mod/create rules for spells the mage is specifically researching. Besides, it takes months of time to research spells like that, taking time out of adventuring to do it.

Time hole it!

[Grandil]

Yeah, pretty much what drewkitty said. The spells gained at levels are essentially 'eureka' moments for the mage who was studying magic in general and a moment of inspiration strikes the mage that allows him to unlock how the spell works.

As for the learning time, I don't think that the book stated one is wrong, since magic is very powerful and you can't lose it, so even when buying them there should be a learning period. However, we eventually house ruled it to this:

Learning time = (48 hours * level)/(IQ/2) + perception

So, a smarter mage has an easier time figuring it out than anything from the get go and certain mages who get perception for magic figure things out quicker, plus he higher the level of the mage, the easier it is for them to figure it out.

So, under that equation, if joe the TW with an iq of 20 and +2 to perception buys a level 6 spell. That's normally 12 days, or 288 hours of study to get it, but it's divided by 12 (10 iq factor + 2 perception), so it only takes him 24 hours to learn.

It's important to note though, that this is broken up into hours instead of days. So it could still take him two weeks if he only studies it for a few hours a day, or it could be within 2 if he dedicated all his waking time towards it.

This looks better vis a vis time restrictions that TTLG goes out of its way to BFE you... I Likey!

[13eowulf]

Yeah, pretty much what drewkitty said. The spells gained at levels are essentially 'eureka' moments for the mage who was studying magic in general and a moment of inspiration strikes the mage that allows him to unlock how the spell works.

As for the learning time, I don't think that the book stated one is wrong, since magic is very powerful and you can't lose it, so even when buying them there should be a learning period. However, we eventually house ruled it to this:

Learning time = (48 hours * level)/(IQ/2) + perception

So, a smarter mage has an easier time figuring it out than anything from the get go and certain mages who get perception for magic figure things out quicker, plus he higher the level of the mage, the easier it is for them to figure it out.

So, under that equation, if joe the TW with an iq of 20 and +2 to perception buys a level 6 spell. That's normally 12 days, or 288 hours of study to get it, but it's divided by 12 (10 iq factor + 2 perception), so it only takes him 24 hours to learn.

It's important to note though, that this is broken up into hours instead of days. So it could still take him two weeks if he only studies it for a few hours a day, or it could be within 2 if he dedicated all his waking time towards it.

Question for PA.
Is the equation...
48 hours x level
----------------- +perception= X
IQ / 2

Or

48 hours x spell level
-----------------= X
(IQ / 2)+perception
?

If the second option it should be written like (48 hours x spell level)/ [(IQ/2)+perception]=X
Sorry, but with math they way you write the equation has to follow exacting rules. And if you change things about or leave stuff out you change the equation.

PS
though of another question.
is the "preseption" the mage's preception bonus or is it a perception roll for that chunk of time?

Based on the result presented in the example I believe that the second way is the intended equation, I had the same question when I read it.

Related, the Mysteries of Magic Book One has some great spell learning materials, with modifiers.

[Prince Artemis]

Yes, the latter

[tuvermage]

Something to remember is this isn't the time for the mage to be able to cast the spell, this is the length of time to commit it to long to memory, and never forget. Think back to studying for tests. you spend several hours memorizing everything for the test, some people can spend as much as three days of spending every free moment cramming. they then take the test and get hopefully in the 90% range, a month later if you gave then the same exact test as a pop quiz most would get half of their original score.

honestly the 2 days per level is very short when you realize that. the magic has to be performed at 100% or the magic won't work. Magic isn't a simple thing, it takes years of study to learn how it works, spells are complex and take time too. the 2 hours * level could be used to see how long the mage takes to be able to use the spell for the first time, but it usually takes several tries after you get something right before you can do it with any degree of control and even more before you commit it to long term memory.

If you think I am full of it, try learning something like the Krep cycle complete with Enzyme names, chemical components, what is the ideal pH range, and all the By-products. and try to learn it where you can answer any and all questions off the top of your head quickly and easily.

[GaredBattlespike]

Greetings!

We go by the Through the Glass Darkly method. It works, it has both pro's and con's; so far it seems balanced. Our Nightbane Sorcerer (me) has been working on a Sense Nightlord/Avatar Spell, but it hasn't gone anywhere yet (bad die rolls), but when he does succeed... It may be a "Game Changer" moment in the War! Finding the B@$t@rd$ is a huge problem for the Resistance, as well as other Factions.

Learning Spells and Inventing NEW ones can be a very big deal, so I can understand the Palladium System veiwpoint that it should be difficult to just get new Spells, or Invent New ones.

With that in mind, I still recommend the TtGD method (pages 37-42).