T-Twenty MILLION MDC!?!? (Death Star -- Palladium Style)

[Akashic Soldier]

Has anyone else read the Fleets of the Three Galaxies preview?

20 million MDC.

I can only imagine the kind of fleets that can actually hope to dish out that kind of damage. This book is going to be nuts!

[Braden Campbell]

You've hit the point, exactly. An entire fleet of starships is,in most cases, needed to destroy a dominator ship... although most people are simply happy if they manage to drive it away.

Note that the thing does have a very subtle and Player Character - centric weak spot though...

[Anthar]

This book is going to be nuts!

This book has been available for a while now, buy it now, now, NOW!!.

[taalismn]

This book is going to be nuts!

This book has been available for a while now, buy it now, now, NOW!!.

If for no other reason than to let the players know how potentially hosed they may be when you casually sideswipe them with the Dominator BattleMoon...

[Akashic Soldier]

3'000'000 MDC is NOT an exploitable weakspot. Hahaha.

*Looks at his trusty 1D6 M.D laser pistol*

At least I know that if nothing else this will instantly vaporize me so that I dont have to worry about becoming one of those poor Dominator Slave girls -- god only knows what horrors they have to endure.

[taalismn]

3'000'000 MDC is NOT an exploitable weakspot. Hahaha.

*Looks at his trusty 1D6 M.D laser pistol*

At least I know that if nothing else this will instantly vaporize me so that I dont have to worry about becoming one of those poor Dominator Slave girls -- god only knows what horrors they have to endure.

The Dominator either sullenly brooding about how the rest of the Three Galaxies wiped out his people, or the Dominator maniacally cackling on and on about how he's going to wipe out the rest of the Three Galaxies.
Yeah, those mood swings can get on anybody's nerves...

[AzathothXy]

You've hit the point, exactly. An entire fleet of starships is,in most cases, needed to destroy a dominator ship... although most people are simply happy if they manage to drive it away.

Note that the thing does have a very subtle and Player Character - centric weak spot though...

Wouldn't be an exhaust port, would it?

[Lenwen]

I for 1 love the whole dominator story line. I only wish 1 would come to rifts earth for some fun!!!!

[Braden Campbell]

You've hit the point, exactly. An entire fleet of starships is,in most cases, needed to destroy a dominator ship... although most people are simply happy if they manage to drive it away.

Note that the thing does have a very subtle and Player Character - centric weak spot though...

Wouldn't be an exhaust port, would it?

Nah.

Kill the Dominator inside. Ship explodes. Galaxy saved.

[sHaka]

You've hit the point, exactly. An entire fleet of starships is,in most cases, needed to destroy a dominator ship... although most people are simply happy if they manage to drive it away.

Note that the thing does have a very subtle and Player Character - centric weak spot though...

Wouldn't be an exhaust port, would it?

Nah.

Kill the Dominator inside. Ship explodes. Galaxy saved.

**As you fly off, disembodied Alec Guiness Voice**

The Forge will be with you...always..

[taalismn]

I for 1 love the whole dominator story line. I only wish 1 would come to rifts earth for some fun!!!!

You have a curious idea of fun.
Care to go fishing for Lord of the Deep with me?

[taalismn]

Wouldn't be an exhaust port, would it?

Nah.

Kill the Dominator inside. Ship explodes. Galaxy saved.

Yep, It's that easy.
Fortunately, Dominators have a weakness for pizza, so you might be able to sneak up on him that way.
Unfortunately, they also have the habit of stiffing the pizza delivery guy(literally and figuratively) so it's a bit of a speed draw to see who kills who first at the door.

[DhAkael]

Heh...
the 'war-moon' design is only one of a few possible in my campaign'verse...
I also have the original Zetraedi source book (Robotech edition 1) and the Macross 2 Starships sourcebooks 1&2.
B'Dolza "Cactus" special anyone?

[taalismn]

Heh...
the 'war-moon' design is only one of a few possible in my campaign'verse...
I also have the original Zetraedi source book (Robotech edition 1) and the Macross 2 Starships sourcebooks 1&2.
B'Dolza "Cactus" special anyone?

Dominator(Upon seeing B'Dolza): "CUZ!!!!!"

[Akashic Soldier]

Yeah I noticed that the Dominator's look like the prophesied Zentradi War-Kings.

Lets hope J-Pop works on them the same way it does on the Zentradi... then ironically enough my giant robot pilot might actually have some hope after all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtCq7TgrLtk (Take this you giant bastards!)

EDIT: A recent fanboy PM has forced me to also add this... (**Spoilers**)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JklqFwo5 ... re=related

Crap in a Hat!! Dark was Wilks able to salvage his pre-rifts J-Pop albums from the exo before he blew it up on that thing?
He can live without his trusty MM-61 but not without his J-Pop collection -- some of its Pre-Rifts and irreplaceable. XD

[DhAkael]

Yeah I noticed that the Dominator's look like the prophesied Zentradi War-Kings.

Lets hope J-Pop works on them the same way it does on the Zentradi... then ironically enough my giant robot pilot might actually have some hope after all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtCq7TgrLtk (Take this you giant bastards!)

EDIT: A recent fanboy PM has forced me to also add this... (**Spoilers**)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JklqFwo5 ... re=related

Crap in a Hat!! Dark was Wilks able to salvage his pre-rifts J-Pop albums from the exo before he blew it up on that thing?
He can live without his trusty MM-61 but not without his J-Pop collection -- some of its Pre-Rifts and irreplaceable. XD

I'd assume he'd keep the actual hard-media originals in a safe place, and those were just digital files on mixed-tape / CD / ultra-FLASH card

[Akashic Soldier]

Phew! lol XD

I spent most of my starting credits buying those -- you know, because I am stupid.

[glitterboy2098]

You've hit the point, exactly. An entire fleet of starships is,in most cases, needed to destroy a dominator ship... although most people are simply happy if they manage to drive it away.

Attrition always works against such ultra-tough targets..you just have to be willing to accept the losses required.

for example, i'd bet my Chor'ii Totality could destroy a dominator ship. the chor'ii fly the crappiest ships in the known phase world universe, but their handful of worlds boasts fleets on par with the multi-thousand world tri-galactic military forces. and attrition is their plan's A through Z...

[taalismn]

You've hit the point, exactly. An entire fleet of starships is,in most cases, needed to destroy a dominator ship... although most people are simply happy if they manage to drive it away.

Attrition always works against such ultra-tough targets..you just have to be willing to accept the losses required.

for example, i'd bet my Chor'ii Totality could destroy a dominator ship. the chor'ii fly the crappiest ships in the known phase world universe, but their handful of worlds boasts fleets on par with the multi-thousand world tri-galactic military forces. and attrition is their plan's A through Z...

Pure meatgrinder strategy...appropriate for the Chor'ii

[glitterboy2098]

conversely, if you can lure it into range, a Sherdena Urbs class city ship could pound it into scrap in short order. of course, said ships are 2x larger and get around using the most brute force drive method ever developed...

[jaymz]

Has anyone else read the Fleets of the Three Galaxies preview?

20 million MDC.

I can only imagine the kind of fleets that can actually hope to dish out that kind of damage. This book is going to be nuts!

What do you mean IS going to be nuts? It;s been out for a while Just yanking your chain sort of.

Truth be told outside of the Dominator Ship and a Naruni ship the rest, at least to me, don't even measure up to the ships already published in previous Phaseworld books.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked all the flavour text and whatnot but the stats themselves just seemed really lacking when compared to what has come before it.

[Akashic Soldier]

Really? Wow.

Also... if you could somehow lure them into a Blackhole apparently that does works wonders but worse-case scenario we're talking death or one one hell of a tow-cable.

[Nightmask]

Hmmmm, I wonder how it'd shape up in battle with that sentient Robotech super-factory from Return Of The Masters.

[Akashic Soldier]

I have never heard about that thing in my life. lmao.

What is it?

[glitterboy2098]

I have never heard about that thing in my life. lmao.

What is it?

station G-95 is a 'super factory sattelite' from the 1st edition robotech RPG. found in the return of the masters book. it was twice the size of the standard robotech factory sat (meaning it was about 20x bigger than a dominator ship), and was fully automated. the sat had a powerful AI, and access to thousands of AI drone mecha based on zentreadi battlepods and master's bioroids.

[taalismn]

I have never heard about that thing in my life. lmao.

What is it?

station G-95 is a 'super factory sattelite' from the 1st edition robotech RPG. found in the return of the masters book. it was twice the size of the standard robotech factory sat (meaning it was about 20x bigger than a dominator ship), and was fully automated. the sat had a powerful AI, and access to thousands of AI drone mecha based on zentreadi battlepods and master's bioroids.

My money's on the Dominator; it's a combat monster with some serious capital weaponry. All those mecha would be like bugs off a windshield.

[Nightmask]

I have never heard about that thing in my life. lmao.

What is it?

station G-95 is a 'super factory sattelite' from the 1st edition robotech RPG. found in the return of the masters book. it was twice the size of the standard robotech factory sat (meaning it was about 20x bigger than a dominator ship), and was fully automated. the sat had a powerful AI, and access to thousands of AI drone mecha based on zentreadi battlepods and master's bioroids.

My money's on the Dominator; it's a combat monster with some serious capital weaponry. All those mecha would be like bugs off a windshield.

Really understating the destructive capabilities of thousands of attack drones, particularly when those drones have a unique logic circuit that borders on actual intelligence with their ability to learn and adapt. They're also networked so they can learn from previous battles, much like the third through sixth generation Sentinels. Plus the factory can build more as it's going along (and the thing can manufacture entire Robotech Master motherships so you'd need a LOT of destruction to begin to reduce its resources). Attrition is a very effective battle tactic, hitting the Dominator ship with more mecha than it can destroy before they damage and eventually destroy it.

[taalismn]

[Really understating the destructive capabilities of thousands of attack drones, particularly when those drones have a unique logic circuit that borders on actual intelligence with their ability to learn and adapt. They're also networked so they can learn from previous battles, much like the third through sixth generation Sentinels. Plus the factory can build more as it's going along (and the thing can manufacture entire Robotech Master motherships so you'd need a LOT of destruction to begin to reduce its resources). Attrition is a very effective battle tactic, hitting the Dominator ship with more mecha than it can destroy before they damage and eventually destroy it.

Crank up the Cray, then, and game-crunch it out to see what happens!

[Akashic Soldier]

Crank up the Cray, then, and game-crunch it out to see what happens!

A-are.. -A-are you even speaking english anymore? lol

[taalismn]

Gets worse...if I recall correctly, the G-95 can actually take over and remotely pilot entire Zentraedi WARSHIPS under its construction/repair, allowing it to use them as gun platforms(the control range is rather limited, however), in addition to the mecha forces.

[jaymz]

Gets worse...if I recall correctly, the G-95 can actually take over and remotely pilot entire Zentraedi WARSHIPS under its construction/repair, allowing it to use them as gun platforms(the control range is rather limited, however), in addition to the mecha forces.

Yes, yes it can

[KLM]

Hi there!

Has anyone else read the Fleets of the Three Galaxies preview?

20 million MDC.

I can only imagine the kind of fleets that can actually hope to dish out that kind of damage.

Plan A,
Star Ghost, DMB2, pg162. Of course one has to load heavy yield cruise missiles, to take out a Dominator
in a single salvo, but those are aviable too. This is probably what happened to the Dominator Blitz (DMB12, pg71).

Plan B,
Sneak up the Fortress with a Dwarven Iron Ship (DMB3) under Invisibility Superior, blast a hole with the
flame cannons, fire Rift canon into hole, and then maybe unleash the full payload of bottled demon missiles
into the hole too. Do not forget Impervious to Energy, if you do not want a one-way ticket, thought.

So, Dominator being "magically challenged" to say so, their ships are like super all-gun battleships
against contemporal navies. IJN Yamato on steroids - against say a nuclear attack sub.

Adios
KLM

[taalismn]

Hi there!
Plan A,
Star Ghost, DMB2, pg162. Of course one has to load heavy yield cruise missiles, to take out a Dominator
in a single salvo, but those are aviable too. This is probably what happened to the Dominator Blitz (DMB12, pg71).

Plan B,
Sneak up the Fortress with a Dwarven Iron Ship (DMB3) under Invisibility Superior, blast a hole with the
flame cannons, fire Rift canon into hole, and then maybe unleash the full payload of bottled demon missiles
into the hole too. Do not forget Impervious to Energy, if you do not want a one-way ticket, thought.

So, Dominator being "magically challenged" to say so, their ships are like super all-gun battleships
against contemporal navies. IJN Yamato on steroids - against say a nuclear attack sub.

Adios
KLM

Thanks, KLM. We tend to forget about those astro-dwarves and their riveted iron space-subs.

Now, for some reason, I have this image of a Dwarf dressed like Jürgen Prochnow from 'Das Boot', as his Iron Ship closes on a Dominator Fortress...

[Aramanthus]

It would be a lively battle! I'd love to watch it from the sidelines.

[flatline]

You've hit the point, exactly. An entire fleet of starships is,in most cases, needed to destroy a dominator ship... although most people are simply happy if they manage to drive it away.

Attrition always works against such ultra-tough targets..you just have to be willing to accept the losses required.

for example, i'd bet my Chor'ii Totality could destroy a dominator ship. the chor'ii fly the crappiest ships in the known phase world universe, but their handful of worlds boasts fleets on par with the multi-thousand world tri-galactic military forces. and attrition is their plan's A through Z...

I disagree that attrition always works. You need to be able to damage faster than shields can regenerate. Since most 3G ships have shields and move faster and have longer range weaponry than the Chor'ii, one 3G ship could wipe out a Chor'ii fleet of any size given enough patience.

Even if the Dominator ship doesn't have shields, the simple fact that it can pick off the Chor'ii ships from beyond their range says to me that the Chor'ii don't have a chance. I don't have the stats for a dominator ship, but I have trouble believing it couldn't out run those pathetic Chor'ii ships.

--flatline

[glitterboy2098]

not a fair assessment. first, we're discussing chor'ii vs dominator at the moment. the dominator has only slightly higher accelleration than the chor'ii ships (mach4 per melee vs. mach 3 per melee)... and the dominator doesn't have sheilds, just a timewarp feild that won't effect the terminal guidance of the chor'ii nuclear missiles, which can be launched from a distance 4x the timewarp range. the Dominator ship doesn't have the sheer mass of firepower needed to destroy a chor'ii armada (which against a target like this, would number in the multiple thousands of ships) before the chor'ii volleys of 8 200kt nuclear missiles per ship, per melee obliterate the Dominator ship. and given the size of the target, it's not like the chor'ii can miss.

against other three galaxies ships, the chor'ii don't fair as well, but they'd still do ok. while the three galaxies ships can usually boast 2-3x the accelleration, you can't really build up much relative velocity before combat becomes impossible for both sides. so the 3G's ships greater accell mainly gives them the ability to dictate when they enter Chor'ii weapons range. but since their respective weapons have equivilent ranges (with a few exceptions), the 3g's ship can't really stand off and pound the chor'ii with impunity. and in a major battle, the 3g's ships will be looking at 10 to 1 odds against them at best. the 3g's CG FTL makes them uncatchable in deep space, but the Chor'ii tachton FTL lets them pop out within the CG drive exclusion zone around a planet, so in a planetary invasion the Chor'ii can catch the 3g's ships 'with their pants down'..and since the 3g's ships couldn't leave said inclusion zone without giving up the planet, the battle would have to occur at planetary orbital speeds (about mach 30 for a planet like earth), where the chor'ii superiority in numbers and available firepower would overwhelm the 3g's force.

the pirahna-bears might build massive numbers of low budget ships instead of making multi-kilometer long weapons depots, but that doesn't mean their stupid or tactically inept. they can be quite intelligent about tactics and strategy.

[flatline]

against other three galaxies ships, the chor'ii don't fair as well, but they'd still do ok. while the three galaxies ships can usually boast 2-3x the acceleration, you can't really build up much relative velocity before combat becomes impossible for both sides.

Ah, but you can. The vessel with the superior ability to accelerate simply orbits the slower vessel/fleet. By changing the eccentricity of your orbit, you can even make more extreme relative velocities such that you can get close enough for your beam weaponry and still get away before their missiles can close on you assuming, of course, that you are willing to abort if they preemptively fire their missiles before you get close enough to use your beam weapons...but eventually they run out of missiles. This assumes your beam weaponry has more range than their beam weaponry, but if they can shoot back, you just have to be careful to control how many of their ships get within range to use their beam weapons on you so that your shields are never overwhelmed in a single pass.

Seriously, speed kills.

In theory, the dominator ship could still do this, but it would take much much longer to set up for each pass since he only has a 33% acceleration advantage according to your numbers. Might be a fun exercise for a bored dominator, I suppose.

I do agree that this type of tactic is pretty useless against an invasion fleet since it may require you to abandon the planet that you're theoretically supposed to be defending. But it can be extremely useful if you're the attacker and they are the defender.

Edit: on second thought, the success of highly eccentric orbital passes in order to avoid their missiles is also dependent on the range and acceleration of their missiles. If their missiles are fast enough compared to your acceleration and beam weapon range, you may not be able to safely pull this off. In that case, you'd want to make passes that would bring you well outside your beam weapon range and hope they waste their missiles on you or have some trick where you kick into FTL to prevent their missiles from hitting you if you can't get away cleanly.

--flatline

[glitterboy2098]

against other three galaxies ships, the chor'ii don't fair as well, but they'd still do ok. while the three galaxies ships can usually boast 2-3x the acceleration, you can't really build up much relative velocity before combat becomes impossible for both sides.

Ah, but you can. The vessel with the superior ability to accelerate simply orbits the slower vessel/fleet.

above mach 36 or so, your at escape velocity and won't remain in orbit. orbital velocity is pretty restricted.

By changing the eccentricity of your orbit, you can even make more extreme relative velocities such that you can get close enough for your beam weaponry and still get away before their missiles can close on you assuming, of course, that you are willing to abort if they preemptively fire their missiles before you get close enough to use your beam weapons...but eventually they run out of missiles. This assumes your beam weaponry has more range than their beam weaponry, but if they can shoot back, you just have to be careful to control how many of their ships get within range to use their beam weapons on you so that your shields are never overwhelmed in a single pass.

around a planet, beam weapons, being line of sight, will have a greatly restricted effective range. missile weapons however can be fired from 'behind the horizon' while the planet blocks the direct line of sight, and while their closing velocity might be limited by orbital velocities, the target will have limited chances to shoot then down..and big craft can't dodge. plus, when you have more volleys of missiles than guns to shoot them down, you can swamp enemy defenses.
you could accellerate to escape velocity and leave orbit, but doing so surrenders the orbital zone, and basically hands the invader the win.

Edit: on second thought, the success of highly eccentric orbital passes in order to avoid their missiles is also dependent on the range and acceleration of their missiles. If their missiles are fast enough compared to your acceleration and beam weapon range, you may not be able to safely pull this off. In that case, you'd want to make passes that would bring you well outside your beam weapon range and hope they waste their missiles on you or have some trick where you kick into FTL to prevent their missiles from hitting you if you can't get away cleanly.

the point of engaging in orbital space is to prevent your opponent from jumping to FTL to escape battle. range is a pretty meaningless concept for missiles, since they continue on even after their drives stop. however, the powered engagement envelope is going to be a factor (how long the missiles drives last) an invading force can launch from many planetary diameters away, and rely on their missiles to coast ballistically into the programmed targets. more useful against planetary targets or space stations than ships, but the limited orbital velocity range and largely predictable courses means such long range barrages can be somewhat effective. not to mention missiles are small targets, and if their drive is off, would be fairly hard to detect with sensors. if you catch the enemy sufficently offguard, you could use such long range attacks to devastate a enemy.

[flatline]

against other three galaxies ships, the chor'ii don't fair as well, but they'd still do ok. while the three galaxies ships can usually boast 2-3x the acceleration, you can't really build up much relative velocity before combat becomes impossible for both sides.

Ah, but you can. The vessel with the superior ability to accelerate simply orbits the slower vessel/fleet.

above mach 36 or so, your at escape velocity and won't remain in orbit. orbital velocity is pretty restricted.

I'm not talking about ballistic orbiting like you would orbit a planet or other gravity well where you're essentially coasting. I'm talking about using your own acceleration to constantly change you're trajectory to effect a circle/ellipse around your target. Since your target has no meaningful gravity, any speed is above the escape velocity.

By changing the eccentricity of your orbit, you can even make more extreme relative velocities such that you can get close enough for your beam weaponry and still get away before their missiles can close on you assuming, of course, that you are willing to abort if they preemptively fire their missiles before you get close enough to use your beam weapons...but eventually they run out of missiles. This assumes your beam weaponry has more range than their beam weaponry, but if they can shoot back, you just have to be careful to control how many of their ships get within range to use their beam weapons on you so that your shields are never overwhelmed in a single pass.

around a planet, beam weapons, being line of sight, will have a greatly restricted effective range. missile weapons however can be fired from 'behind the horizon' while the planet blocks the direct line of sight, and while their closing velocity might be limited by orbital velocities, the target will have limited chances to shoot then down..and big craft can't dodge. plus, when you have more volleys of missiles than guns to shoot them down, you can swamp enemy defenses.
you could accellerate to escape velocity and leave orbit, but doing so surrenders the orbital zone, and basically hands the invader the win.

Yes, I said that. If you are protecting something, then this strategy isn't an option since you'd be abandoning what it was you were trying to protect.

Edit: on second thought, the success of highly eccentric orbital passes in order to avoid their missiles is also dependent on the range and acceleration of their missiles. If their missiles are fast enough compared to your acceleration and beam weapon range, you may not be able to safely pull this off. In that case, you'd want to make passes that would bring you well outside your beam weapon range and hope they waste their missiles on you or have some trick where you kick into FTL to prevent their missiles from hitting you if you can't get away cleanly.

the point of engaging in orbital space is to prevent your opponent from jumping to FTL to escape battle. range is a pretty meaningless concept for missiles, since they continue on even after their drives stop. however, the powered engagement envelope is going to be a factor (how long the missiles drives last) an invading force can launch from many planetary diameters away, and rely on their missiles to coast ballistically into the programmed targets. more useful against planetary targets or space stations than ships, but the limited orbital velocity range and largely predictable courses means such long range barrages can be somewhat effective. not to mention missiles are small targets, and if their drive is off, would be fairly hard to detect with sensors. if you catch the enemy sufficently offguard, you could use such long range attacks to devastate a enemy.

We agree that if the faster fleet is defending a planet, this type of tactic doesn't work. The original scenario didn't involve a planet, it was simply two fleets engaging each other (more specifically your Chor'ii vs a Dominator then more generally a slower more numerous fleet vs a smaller, faster (presumably more technically advanced) fleet.

As for the range of missiles, once the missile runs out of fuel for maneuvering, trivial course corrections of the target ship make the missiles miss. The missiles also become trivial to destroy since they no longer have a dodge and follow a predictable ballistic trajectory (but if they're already going to miss, it might not be worth bothering with shooting them down).

--flatline

[KLM]

Hi there!

about Cho'rii:

weapons have equivilent ranges (with a few exceptions), the 3g's ship can't really stand off and pound the chor'ii with impunity. and in a major battle, the 3g's ships will be looking at 10 to 1 odds against them at best.

Checking your site, it lists about 8000 Black Claw Destroyers and maybe about the same number of transports. This is far from enough to effectively deploy ten times the
number of major 3Galactic powers' fleets, especially if one considers that - for example - there are 260.000 Proctor interceptor/light frigates OUTSIDE the CAF. Now a
Proctor can easily take on several Black Claws. Not to mention of massed PA+fighter assaults, a standard tactic for major 3G forces.

Another issue is the Chor'ii "tachyon drive". It might be able to drop a ship, or even a task force into a planet's gravity well.

Hmm...
1, Is this piece of technology exclusive to the Chor'ii? It must be, since the tactical considerations are too significant

2, Does this drive register on the FTL sensor of the 3Galactic "standard military sensors" (as per DMB2, pg 153)? It must be IMO, then
every attacked star system has about a YEAR of early warning, even without sensor perimeters. So, they can be mowed down way before
reaching the outer perimeter (say, the orbit of the Neptunus in the case of Sol) of a system.

Adios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

Hi there!

about Cho'rii:

weapons have equivilent ranges (with a few exceptions), the 3g's ship can't really stand off and pound the chor'ii with impunity. and in a major battle, the 3g's ships will be looking at 10 to 1 odds against them at best.

Checking your site, it lists about 8000 Black Claw Destroyers and maybe about the same number of transports. This is far from enough to effectively deploy ten times the
number of major 3Galactic powers' fleets, especially if one considers that - for example - there are 260.000 Proctor interceptor/light frigates OUTSIDE the CAF. Now a
Proctor can easily take on several Black Claws. Not to mention of massed PA+fighter assaults, a standard tactic for major 3G forces.

not 10-1 against the entire CAF military...10 to 1 against the typical CAF fleet (a handful of battleships, supported by a dozen or so support ships)
the CAF ships in the cluster would be way more outnumbered, since said ships will mainly be exploration ships, and not many of them.


and i'll need to check the # of black claws again.. my notes say it should be higher, i might have an error there, or i might have changed it and forgotten to change my notes..

Another issue is the Chor'ii "tachyon drive". It might be able to drop a ship, or even a task force into a planet's gravity well.
Hmm...
1, Is this piece of technology exclusive to the Chor'ii? It must be, since the tactical considerations are too significant
2, Does this drive register on the FTL sensor of the 3Galactic "standard military sensors" (as per DMB2, pg 153)? It must be IMO, then
every attacked star system has about a YEAR of early warning, even without sensor perimeters. So, they can be mowed down way before
reaching the outer perimeter (say, the orbit of the Neptunus in the case of Sol) of a system.

1.) it's fairly common 'high end' FTL for the cluster. the Sherdena sell plans for it to those they contact, though not all manage to build it to the same exact specs. the Chor'ii version is a fairly typical model.
some races use alternate methods (usually sublight ships relying on Aether streams and tannhouser gates, or magic based systems) but tachyon FTL is common in the cluster.
2.) tachyon FTL ships in transit wouldn't show up on standard 3G's sensors. ships entering or dropping out of Tachyon FTL would however. of course, races from ender's cluster can't detect 3G's contragravitic FTL ships in transit either.
of course, non-standard sensors (like those you'd expect to be on an exploration ship) could pick up tachyon FTL drives in use, though catching the ships would require a tachyon drive of your own, since tachyon FTL 'sidesteps' into a realm that CG drive ships (which go FTL in our universe by warping space) can't access.

the Chor'ii tend to drop out of FTL on the edges of a star shystem, giving their target most of a week of warning (assuming the chor'ii scouting missions weren't detected), mainly because it takes that long for their ground forces to wake up out of hibernation and get ready to fight. it also tends to see the target scramble their militaries to alert, letting them know which ground targets to nuke before landing troops.

against other three galaxies ships, the chor'ii don't fair as well, but they'd still do ok. while the three galaxies ships can usually boast 2-3x the acceleration, you can't really build up much relative velocity before combat becomes impossible for both sides.

Ah, but you can. The vessel with the superior ability to accelerate simply orbits the slower vessel/fleet.

above mach 36 or so, your at escape velocity and won't remain in orbit. orbital velocity is pretty restricted.

I'm not talking about ballistic orbiting like you would orbit a planet or other gravity well where you're essentially coasting. I'm talking about using your own acceleration to constantly change you're trajectory to effect a circle/ellipse around your target. Since your target has no meaningful gravity, any speed is above the escape velocity.

thats a lot harder than it sounds. orbital mechanics doesn't let you do 'circle strafe' of that sort easily, even if you do have a higher accell than your target. you can sorta fake it by accellerating past your target, then going into an intersecting orbit, and doing a flip over to point your guns at the target while deccellerating, but space ships can't manuever like your assuming. most space battles away from planets, if plotted out, will look like braids of string, as the ships manuever side to side in intersecting courses.

By changing the eccentricity of your orbit, you can even make more extreme relative velocities such that you can get close enough for your beam weaponry and still get away before their missiles can close on you assuming, of course, that you are willing to abort if they preemptively fire their missiles before you get close enough to use your beam weapons...but eventually they run out of missiles. This assumes your beam weaponry has more range than their beam weaponry, but if they can shoot back, you just have to be careful to control how many of their ships get within range to use their beam weapons on you so that your shields are never overwhelmed in a single pass.

around a planet, beam weapons, being line of sight, will have a greatly restricted effective range. missile weapons however can be fired from 'behind the horizon' while the planet blocks the direct line of sight, and while their closing velocity might be limited by orbital velocities, the target will have limited chances to shoot then down..and big craft can't dodge. plus, when you have more volleys of missiles than guns to shoot them down, you can swamp enemy defenses.
you could accellerate to escape velocity and leave orbit, but doing so surrenders the orbital zone, and basically hands the invader the win.

Yes, I said that. If you are protecting something, then this strategy isn't an option since you'd be abandoning what it was you were trying to protect.

the problem with 'go anywhere to anywhere' drives like contra gravitic drives is that there is little logical reason to fight an engagement away from a gravity well. when a ship can fire up it's FTL to escape, you basically can't actually force an opponent to engage outside a planets interdiction zone. if they do, it means either their drive doesn't work, or their captain is of questionable intelligence. so your only going to see major engagements around places of importance...which will generally be planets or moons.

so most space battles would be defensive battles of one sort or another. either the gravity well your in has something worth defending, or one ship has to defend itself long enough to leave the interdiction zone.

Edit: on second thought, the success of highly eccentric orbital passes in order to avoid their missiles is also dependent on the range and acceleration of their missiles. If their missiles are fast enough compared to your acceleration and beam weapon range, you may not be able to safely pull this off. In that case, you'd want to make passes that would bring you well outside your beam weapon range and hope they waste their missiles on you or have some trick where you kick into FTL to prevent their missiles from hitting you if you can't get away cleanly.

the point of engaging in orbital space is to prevent your opponent from jumping to FTL to escape battle. range is a pretty meaningless concept for missiles, since they continue on even after their drives stop. however, the powered engagement envelope is going to be a factor (how long the missiles drives last) an invading force can launch from many planetary diameters away, and rely on their missiles to coast ballistically into the programmed targets. more useful against planetary targets or space stations than ships, but the limited orbital velocity range and largely predictable courses means such long range barrages can be somewhat effective. not to mention missiles are small targets, and if their drive is off, would be fairly hard to detect with sensors. if you catch the enemy sufficently offguard, you could use such long range attacks to devastate a enemy.

We agree that if the faster fleet is defending a planet, this type of tactic doesn't work. The original scenario didn't involve a planet, it was simply two fleets engaging each other (more specifically your Chor'ii vs a Dominator then more generally a slower more numerous fleet vs a smaller, faster (presumably more technically advanced) fleet.

As for the range of missiles, once the missile runs out of fuel for maneuvering, trivial course corrections of the target ship make the missiles miss. The missiles also become trivial to destroy since they no longer have a dodge and follow a predictable ballistic trajectory (but if they're already going to miss, it might not be worth bothering with shooting them down).

this is where the confusion comes in then. as i've pointed out above, engagements away from a planet or moon are going to be extremely rare. catching a ship in deep space is extremely difficult if they have a FTl drive like contragravitic or tachyonic drives, which can enter FTL from just about anywhere and can exit FTl from just about anywhere. space warfare with such drives inherently tends to focus on attacking and defending gravity wells, since those hold the places forces have to attack or defend.

[flatline]

this is where the confusion comes in then. as i've pointed out above, engagements away from a planet or moon are going to be extremely rare. catching a ship in deep space is extremely difficult if they have a FTl drive like contragravitic or tachyonic drives, which can enter FTL from just about anywhere and can exit FTl from just about anywhere. space warfare with such drives inherently tends to focus on attacking and defending gravity wells, since those hold the places forces have to attack or defend.

I agree with this point. In your posts you clearly see the Chor'ii being the attacker in the scenario. That wasn't my point of view at all. It seems like if the CAF (or whomever) is interested in Chor'ii containment, it would take very little capital investment on their side to send a ship to a Chor'ii planet to wipe out the Chor'ii fleet there. Just send a single fast ship with excellent long range beam weapons, and some means of dealing with volleys of missiles (phase tech, perhaps?). Then, the question becomes "can a single ship optimized for this purpose destroy the Chor'ii ships as fast as they're manufactured on planet and sent into space in order to prevent them from escaping their current system?" (yes, I realize that orbital bombardment of ship manufacturing facilities is the answer...but it's so inelegant).

Side question: how did a race with 2D6 IQ ever get off their own planet?

--flatline

[KLM]

Hi there!

Another issue is the Chor'ii "tachyon drive". It might be able to drop a ship, or even a task force into a planet's gravity well.
Hmm...
1, Is this piece of technology exclusive to the Chor'ii? It must be, since the tactical considerations are too significant
2, Does this drive register on the FTL sensor of the 3Galactic "standard military sensors" (as per DMB2, pg 153)? It must be IMO, then
every attacked star system has about a YEAR of early warning, even without sensor perimeters. So, they can be mowed down way before
reaching the outer perimeter (say, the orbit of the Neptunus in the case of Sol) of a system.

1.) it's fairly common 'high end' FTL for the cluster. the Sherdena sell plans for it to those they contact, though not all manage to build it to the same exact specs. the Chor'ii version is a fairly typical model.
some races use alternate methods (usually sublight ships relying on Aether streams and tannhouser gates, or magic based systems) but tachyon FTL is common in the cluster.
2.) tachyon FTL ships in transit wouldn't show up on standard 3G's sensors. ships entering or dropping out of Tachyon FTL would however. of course, races from ender's cluster can't detect 3G's contragravitic FTL ships in transit either.
of course, non-standard sensors (like those you'd expect to be on an exploration ship) could pick up tachyon FTL drives in use, though catching the ships would require a tachyon drive of your own, since tachyon FTL 'sidesteps' into a realm that CG drive ships (which go FTL in our universe by warping space) can't access.

1, So, Tachyon drive is fairly common, and is encountered by the CAF or the Discovery Corps. It is something which can be used in gravity wells - if I understand You correctly - yet
it is an FTL drive. Something which would quite throw the "balance of terror" between the CCW and the TGE out of the window.

2, Also, Chor'ii must have some kind of an FTL sensor - otherwise their fleets do need that one week "after FTL, before invasion" not just for thawing out the hungry
teddy bears, but also for regrouping. And a week of the Great Turkey... err... Teddy Shooting for CG ships (picking 'em one by one, without giving a chance to overload shields)
But if they do have a tachyonic sensor - or the exploration ships of the CCW have it as standard - then it is Teddy Season again. See later.

the Chor'ii tend to drop out of FTL on the edges of a star shystem, giving their target most of a week of warning (assuming the chor'ii scouting missions weren't detected), mainly because it takes that long for their ground forces to wake up out of hibernation and get ready to fight. it also tends to see the target scramble their militaries to alert, letting them know which ground targets to nuke before landing troops.

FYI, according to the DMB13, page 37, a CAF sector group is made of about 63 capitals (Packmasters and Protectors) and 640 sub-capitals (Hunter destroyer). About the same number
for Exploration Corps, thought they only use sub-capitals (but again, the Explorer "cruiser" from DMB6, pg 135, which is said to be the most common sign of CAF presence is more like a
battlecruiser or a small fast battleship). It is a force for a 500 ly sector - 4 days to arrive at most.

so most space battles would be defensive battles of one sort or another. either the gravity well your in has something worth defending, or one ship has to defend itself long enough to leave the interdiction zone.(...)
this is where the confusion comes in then. as i've pointed out above, engagements away from a planet or moon are going to be extremely rare. catching a ship in deep space is extremely difficult if they have a FTl drive like contragravitic or tachyonic drives, which can enter FTL from just about anywhere and can exit FTl from just about anywhere. space warfare with such drives inherently tends to focus on attacking and defending gravity wells, since those hold the places forces have to attack or defend.

Except if the interdiction zone can be moved. By - for example - and Araneae interdictor cruiser (DMB13, pg40).

Also, while risky, FTL combat between two "normal" CG ships is also possible. Sometimes thought NOT attacking a target in FTL brings even more risks.

The bottom line is, that if tachyon drives cannot be intercepted, ships can be traced - and I hope they are not immune to phase weaponry from normal
space.

Adios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

Hi there!

Another issue is the Chor'ii "tachyon drive". It might be able to drop a ship, or even a task force into a planet's gravity well.
Hmm...
1, Is this piece of technology exclusive to the Chor'ii? It must be, since the tactical considerations are too significant
2, Does this drive register on the FTL sensor of the 3Galactic "standard military sensors" (as per DMB2, pg 153)? It must be IMO, then
every attacked star system has about a YEAR of early warning, even without sensor perimeters. So, they can be mowed down way before
reaching the outer perimeter (say, the orbit of the Neptunus in the case of Sol) of a system.

1.) it's fairly common 'high end' FTL for the cluster. the Sherdena sell plans for it to those they contact, though not all manage to build it to the same exact specs. the Chor'ii version is a fairly typical model.
some races use alternate methods (usually sublight ships relying on Aether streams and tannhouser gates, or magic based systems) but tachyon FTL is common in the cluster.
2.) tachyon FTL ships in transit wouldn't show up on standard 3G's sensors. ships entering or dropping out of Tachyon FTL would however. of course, races from ender's cluster can't detect 3G's contragravitic FTL ships in transit either.
of course, non-standard sensors (like those you'd expect to be on an exploration ship) could pick up tachyon FTL drives in use, though catching the ships would require a tachyon drive of your own, since tachyon FTL 'sidesteps' into a realm that CG drive ships (which go FTL in our universe by warping space) can't access.

1, So, Tachyon drive is fairly common, and is encountered by the CAF or the Discovery Corps. It is something which can be used in gravity wells - if I understand You correctly - yet
it is an FTL drive. Something which would quite throw the "balance of terror" between the CCW and the TGE out of the window.

2, Also, Chor'ii must have some kind of an FTL sensor - otherwise their fleets do need that one week "after FTL, before invasion" not just for thawing out the hungry
teddy bears, but also for regrouping. And a week of the Great Turkey... err... Teddy Shooting for CG ships (picking 'em one by one, without giving a chance to overload shields)
But if they do have a tachyonic sensor - or the exploration ships of the CCW have it as standard - then it is Teddy Season again. See later.

keep in mind, tachyonic FTL is horrifically slow compared to contragravitic FTL. many thousands of times slower. a CG ship can cover multiple lightyears in an hour. a tachyonic FTl ship takes weeks to cover one light year.

to put it into perspective, a typical CG drive can reach about 3 ly/h. a chor'ii tachyonic drive.. .00038 ly/h

sure, tachyonic drive doesn't require a mastery of gravitons and space warping, just knowledge of generating special configurations of magnetic feilds, but it has its own drawbacks as well.. which are here in my notes, and this discussion has given me cause to get them up on my site..



and the Chor'ii don't have FTL sensors or comms. travelling through tachyonic space (which despite the name, is actually one of the extra 'curled up' dimensions of our own universe) is basically a straightline ballistic event, so they use conventional astronomy methods to map the locations, directions, and velocities of the destination stars, and use that to plot courses to them. dropping out in the outer system allows for greater safety after such trips (less matter to run into while exiting FTL), and it lets them do a quick mapping of the system for micro-jumps in system if needed.

remember the chor'ii stole their drive, so it's not something they understand fully. i do plan to add FTL communications to some races in the cluster, but i'm not sure which ones yet or what methods.

the Chor'ii tend to drop out of FTL on the edges of a star shystem, giving their target most of a week of warning (assuming the chor'ii scouting missions weren't detected), mainly because it takes that long for their ground forces to wake up out of hibernation and get ready to fight. it also tends to see the target scramble their militaries to alert, letting them know which ground targets to nuke before landing troops.

FYI, according to the DMB13, page 37, a CAF sector group is made of about 63 capitals (Packmasters and Protectors) and 640 sub-capitals (Hunter destroyer). About the same number
for Exploration Corps, thought they only use sub-capitals (but again, the Explorer "cruiser" from DMB6, pg 135, which is said to be the most common sign of CAF presence is more like a
battlecruiser or a small fast battleship). It is a force for a 500 ly sector - 4 days to arrive at most.

consider how much space the CCW or TGE takes up though. a 500 ly sector (cubic ly, i assume?) would likely hold scores of stars and likely several dozen points of strategic interest.. and a response time of several days means an enemy can hit any of those and get away scot free if the sector group is all clumped into one place. so instead it would be diveded up into many smaller task forces (aka fleets in popular parlance) to preposition response forces at multiple locations so any incursion can be responded to swiftly, and likely even more mobile patrols which visit each point over time, or stationary defense assignments to put forces on station at the most vital strategic points.

so those hundreds of ships end up scattered around in peny ante packets of a few ship here, a dozen there, etc.

and even in the event of an incursion, you'd not see more than half of the capitals and even less of the sub-caps in any one battle, since any sane commander will withhold a reserve force, and ensure that the rest of his sector still has at least basic mobile defenses in the event the incursion being blunted turns out to have been a diversion, or part of a multi-pronged campaign.

so most space battles would be defensive battles of one sort or another. either the gravity well your in has something worth defending, or one ship has to defend itself long enough to leave the interdiction zone.(...)
this is where the confusion comes in then. as i've pointed out above, engagements away from a planet or moon are going to be extremely rare. catching a ship in deep space is extremely difficult if they have a FTl drive like contragravitic or tachyonic drives, which can enter FTL from just about anywhere and can exit FTl from just about anywhere. space warfare with such drives inherently tends to focus on attacking and defending gravity wells, since those hold the places forces have to attack or defend.

Except if the interdiction zone can be moved. By - for example - and Araneae interdictor cruiser (DMB13, pg40).

Also, while risky, FTL combat between two "normal" CG ships is also possible. Sometimes thought NOT attacking a target in FTL brings even more risks.

The bottom line is, that if tachyon drives cannot be intercepted, ships can be traced - and I hope they are not immune to phase weaponry from normal
space.

Adios
KLM

the problem with the Araneae interdictor is it's feild has a mere 60 mile range...when most phase world capships and subcaps have weapons reaching many times that distance as secondary or tertiary weapons, much less primary. unless you are completely undetected and can get 'danger close' without being destroyed (unlikely in space), your not likely to catch them before they escape..and even if you do, you just made yourself a nice big, relatively stationary target for the other ship.

and with a 120mile diameter sphere to work with, pulling a ship out of FTL is like threading a needle when the needle is 5 miles away and the thread is moving at hypersonic speeds. and to create a region big enough to deal with the vastness of the space to cover would require positioning pretty much every araneae the CCW has all in one solar system.

catching a CG drive ship in FTl requires you to know it's course. if you linger behind to plot said course you'd need a much faster FTL speed to overtake.. and when in FTL, your isolated from the rest of spacetime within your warp bubble, so you can't use your FTL detection sensors to plot the course. thats one of the reasons it's so risky. your flying half blind and have to perform pinpoint manuevers.

[glitterboy2098]

this is where the confusion comes in then. as i've pointed out above, engagements away from a planet or moon are going to be extremely rare. catching a ship in deep space is extremely difficult if they have a FTl drive like contragravitic or tachyonic drives, which can enter FTL from just about anywhere and can exit FTl from just about anywhere. space warfare with such drives inherently tends to focus on attacking and defending gravity wells, since those hold the places forces have to attack or defend.

I agree with this point. In your posts you clearly see the Chor'ii being the attacker in the scenario. That wasn't my point of view at all.

in space combat, the line between attacker and defender is somewhat blurred unless one of the combatants is an orbital station of some kind. it's generally more of a strategic or operational distinction rather than a tactical one. the scenario that comes to mind in a hypothetical dominator/chor'ii battle would be the dominator coming into orbit around a planet the chor'ii claim (probably a major chor'ii world). it doesn't matter if the chor'ii fire first or react to the dominator's fire, the respective damage capabilities would weigh on the chor'ii side for some time. (the dominator's weapons being optimized for high damage to individual targets, which wouldn't reduce the chor'ii numbers until their 'Itano circus' of nuclear missiles did a number on the dominator ship.)

It seems like if the CAF (or whomever) is interested in Chor'ii containment, it would take very little capital investment on their side to send a ship to a Chor'ii planet to wipe out the Chor'ii fleet there. Just send a single fast ship with excellent long range beam weapons, and some means of dealing with volleys of missiles (phase tech, perhaps?). Then, the question becomes "can a single ship optimized for this purpose destroy the Chor'ii ships as fast as they're manufactured on planet and sent into space in order to prevent them from escaping their current system?" (yes, I realize that orbital bombardment of ship manufacturing facilities is the answer...but it's so inelegant).

keep in mind the bit of fluff calling for 'containment' is from a T'zee representative. given the two races are neck and neck for "fastest rate of population expansion", it was intended to be a bit of humor. both the CCW and TGE are mainly interested in ensuring that the Chor'ii never get access to standard 3 galaxies technology, which would turn them into a rapidly expanding menace to the known universe. with ther own technology, they're only really a threat to Enders cluster, which is actually farther away from the thundercloud galaxy than the thundercloud is from the Anvil and corkscrew galaxies. enders cluster is 'way out in the boonies' so to speak, and with their tachyonic FTL the chor'ii couldn't cross the gulf without building absolutely massive multi-generational ships..not something they'd be good at. (build the ship, certainly with enough resources. population control to keep it viable over multiple centuries? hell no).
if they did take the entire cluster they'd eventually self-destruct due to overpopulation.

the Cluster however falls under the same rules as the colonization of the thundercloud galaxy, so you have CCW and TGE groups cropping up there too, mainly dissident groups, research groups, and the occasional colonist group looking to escape the thundercloud proper's political messes. so both nations have a small reason to continue to hang around the area (mainly so there is a reason to have players be there), but not enough to actually intervein substantially.

as for destroying the chor'ii shipyards...their ships are actually built from modules that are produced in multiple factories across a system, and assembled in orbit around chor'ii planets. taking them out would require destroying much a star system's asteroids, and hanging around the planets (where orbital defenses and activie guard units would be a threat.)
Chor'ii ships are basically 'tinkertoys' with engine, fueltanks, and living module hung on a scaffold. they can be built just about anywhere you can park the parts and a work crew. (in fact, i've got notes on a Denmother "tanker" variant which carries extra fuel tanks, and just swaps out empties for full ones..)

(i gotta get more of my notes translated into real pages..)

Side question: how did a race with 2D6 IQ ever get off their own planet?

--flatline

they used to be smarter, but social pressures from overpopulation and damage from polluted living enviroments dumbed them down. aside from copying stolen tech (like their stardrive), most of their technology advances in the kind of incrimental improvements you'd expect from lots of average researchers and inventors plodding along.

[KLM]

Hi there!
1, So, Tachyon drive is fairly common, and is encountered by the CAF or the Discovery Corps. It is something which can be used in gravity wells - if I understand You correctly - yet
it is an FTL drive. Something which would quite throw the "balance of terror" between the CCW and the TGE out of the window.

2, Also, Chor'ii must have some kind of an FTL sensor - otherwise their fleets do need that one week "after FTL, before invasion" not just for thawing out the hungry
teddy bears, but also for regrouping. And a week of the Great Turkey... err... Teddy Shooting for CG ships (picking 'em one by one, without giving a chance to overload shields)
But if they do have a tachyonic sensor - or the exploration ships of the CCW have it as standard - then it is Teddy Season again. See later.

keep in mind, tachyonic FTL is horrifically slow compared to contragravitic FTL. many thousands of times slower. a CG ship can cover multiple lightyears in an hour. a tachyonic FTl ship takes weeks to cover one light year.

to put it into perspective, a typical CG drive can reach about 3 ly/h. a chor'ii tachyonic drive.. .00038 ly/h

Yepp. Thats why I called it a tactical advantage. Basically and gamewise it duplicates the teleportation power of the
Star Ghost fighter (DMB2, pg 163 Nr.6) - with a much greater range. Something which will turn the usual "get there in an
instant and then crawl into the gravity well" sequence of planetary assaults.

and the Chor'ii don't have FTL sensors or comms. travelling through tachyonic space (which despite the name, is actually one of the extra 'curled up' dimensions of our own universe) is basically a straightline ballistic event, so they use conventional astronomy methods to map the locations, directions, and velocities of the destination stars, and use that to plot courses to them. dropping out in the outer system allows for greater safety after such trips (less matter to run into while exiting FTL), and it lets them do a quick mapping of the system for micro-jumps in system if needed.

Again, this technology seems to duplicate phase drives.

the Chor'ii tend to drop out of FTL on the edges of a star shystem, giving their target most of a week of warning (assuming the chor'ii scouting missions weren't detected), mainly because it takes that long for their ground forces to wake up out of hibernation and get ready to fight. it also tends to see the target scramble their militaries to alert, letting them know which ground targets to nuke before landing troops.

(...)

and even in the event of an incursion, you'd not see more than half of the capitals and even less of the sub-caps in any one battle, since any sane commander will withhold a reserve force, and ensure that the rest of his sector still has at least basic mobile defenses in the event the incursion being blunted turns out to have been a diversion, or part of a multi-pronged campaign.

OK, lets count the alphabet soup again:
CAF sector group: cca: 63 capitals and 640 subcapitals
CCW Exploration Corps: about the same number, thought mostly "Explorers" (btw 2 Explorer "cruisers" are almost equal a Protector battleship)
IDF forces: depending on the GDP of the system, see:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=48533

A "sector" is a 500 by 500 ly "cube" - thought the "biosphere" is about 100 lys . It takes about a week for a chorii fleet to assemble and thaw forces.
During this phase the fleet would be decimated by 3G craft, attacking them one by one, making kill(s) well before shields depleted, and reinforcements
arrive gradually.

Also, if Tachyon drives are detectable by exploration ships, fleet movements are rather accurately observed - and ships can be decimated during
"warp".

the problem with the Araneae interdictor is it's feild has a mere 60 mile range...

And the guns of the Doomsday "tank" have a 2000 mile range - DMB2, pg 149, "Weapons" section #1.

Yeah, right.

and with a 120mile diameter sphere to work with, pulling a ship out of FTL is like threading a needle when the needle is 5 miles away and the thread is moving at hypersonic speeds.

Actually, with the usual FTL sensors one can have at least one hour to calculate "interception baskets", move the ship there (and it is FAST).

and when in FTL, your isolated from the rest of spacetime within your warp bubble, so you can't use your FTL detection sensors to plot the course.

Huh?

Without working FTL sensors it would be night impossible to engage in FTL combat. Besides, I do not remember such a rule,
but if you give a book and page number...

IMO, given the speeds - and more importantly the accelerations - in FTL makes in dangerous. Not having shields is just icing
the cake.

ADios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

there are no official rules about sensors in phaseworld. just a partial page of standard sensor types. little to no ranges, no rules on how any of them work or when one can and can't use them.
but think about this. the official FTL sensor in phase world is the "gravity wave radar", which presumably detects gravity waves created by the passage of gravity wells through space.

while in FTL, your ship is surrounded by a region of intensely warped space that isolates the spacetime within it from the universe outside, with the entire bubble moving to affect FTL speeds. this region of warped space is created by gravity. the resulting alterations of space-time are far stronger than gravity waves, and would block said waves from entering the isolated spacetime inside the bubble.

combat at FTL speeds is only possible, by canon, if ships get close enough to merge their drive feilds. this means you have to match courses, ssomething that does not require active sensors to acheive, just a knowledge of the targets course. there is a reason it's described as rare and dangerous.


and before you go comparing tachyonic drive to phase drive, i suggest you read up on it at my site it is a very different beast.

[KLM]

Hi there!

the official FTL sensor in phase world is the "gravity wave radar", which presumably detects gravity waves created by the passage of gravity wells through space.

Actually, it is more like passive sonar.

while in FTL, your ship is surrounded by a region of intensely warped space that isolates the spacetime within it from the universe outside, with the entire bubble moving to affect FTL speeds. this region of warped space is created by gravity. the resulting alterations of space-time are far stronger than gravity waves, and would block said waves from entering the isolated spacetime inside the bubble.

combat at FTL speeds is only possible, by canon, if ships get close enough to merge their drive feilds.

The two bold parts are conflicting. If your bubble denies the use of detecting other ships in FTL, it would make combat impossible - it is simply not possible to
sincronise vectors to get ships as close as a hundred feet without colliding (even with working sensor it is hard enough, not to mention fighting effectively
"guns stuck into the mouth of the opposition")

But since FTL combat IS possible, and since I could find the "bubble would block" part in my books...

Still: the T-drive has vast tactical applications (thought either requiring a dual drive system or a mothership to carry assault craft) which
would turn "conventional" planetary assaults upside down.

Adios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

it doesn't deny the detection of other ships, just gravity waves. particle based detection (things that pick up photons, radiation, etc) would be able to work inside, since those would be heavily distorted but some would get through. with powerful computers and the model of your own bubble to work with, you can reconstruct what things look like outside the feild.
and the FTL bubble will distort the visual of space behind it in distinct ways for an outside viewer, which youcan observe with said particle sensors, allowing you to track the other ships bubble.
not easily, it would be rather like trying to track a laggy player in an online game while undergoing lag yourself, but you could do it.




using tachyon FTL for planetary assults has some major drawbacks though. since it's weakness is the presence of existing mass in the spatial volume your trying to enter, doing a micro-jump into orbital space over any halfway developed world would run a high risk of impacting a sattelite, space station, large peice of spacejunk, orbiting space ship, or what have you, immolating the incoming ship. and if you miscalculate something, your likely to pop in in an atmosphere or even in the planet.

in the cluster, there aren'y that many places with crowded orbital zones. in the rest of the three galaxies, it's easier to think of places that wouldn't have such crowded orbital zones.

i'll admit it does have some major applications in terms of weapons (FTL cruise missiles for example could allow multi-lightsecond effective ranges)

[Lenwen]

How would a dominator ship do against a mechanoid mother ship?