Nightmask wrote:Sorry but you're just wrong, ... If you're born and bred somewhere you're a native, that's what makes you a native. The CS has no magical right or ownership over anything especially what other people have owned for generations.
If you want to make up your own morality, that's fine, but it's not going to be very convincing when you simply don't care about its risk to humanity. The CS has sovereignty ("ownership") over its land as the representative of the preexisting American states and by right of conquest. Its citizenship ("native status") is granted at its pleasure.
As for birthright citizenship, even under Common Law, it's inapplicable in the case of invaders and those who are enemies of the country. And
jus soli is a new concept made possible by well-protected nation-states.
Jus sanguinis is the traditional way of forming states.
llywelyn wrote:Nightmask wrote:[series of false analogies]
Yeah, if you're going to comment about someone's post actually quote their post instead of replacing it with a misleading or in this case blatantly false labels. It's really easy to actually quote the text here.
It is easier to simply quote the text, sure. I preferred to make it easier for readers to follow, while still capturing the gist of your argument.
You, on the other hand, have never addressed the substantive arguments I've raised and simply repeat yourself and cycle through various historical scandals hoping to win the argument by shame.
EDIT: To make this more constructive criticism, an example: Before and in that post you quoted, I explained why your analogies are false and Dbees do not correlate at all to human-on-human racism and gave numerous reasons. Your response was essentially "nuh-uh", followed by more analogies of the type I'd just refuted. Kindly note my actual objections to equating modern day racism and
Rifts era speciesism and try again.
Meanwhile given as you well understand it's impossible to prove a negative (that no fifth column existed) and is a common fallacious argument used by people. You are required to prove that there was one
I did. That you didn't understand that it did doesn't really support your point.
Also, given that the United States had access to Japanese records, my question was legitimate. I don't hear people say the
issei were exonerated, just that the US should be ashamed of itself. It's not the strongest argument they could be making, if they're right.
What you seem to miss while continuing to use the false label of invader in reference to all D-Bees is that they did NOT come to Rifts Earth willingly, they did not come with any conquest in mind or to harm anyone, and were minding their own business until attacked and killed by the forces of the CS for existing.
I don't know where you came to your conclusion that they're all refugees, but aside from escaped summoned demons and ex-Splugorth slaves these are people who walked through a rift, presumably not at gunpoint. I'll spare you the dictionary quote of "invasion", but suffice it to say that they're occupying land they've moved into against the will of the original claimants.
If they were citizens, they'd have squatters rights, but they're not and without organized government, it's
terra nullius free for annexation; with a government and claiming that land, they are precisely invaders.
You're also still completely ignoring the lesson learned by the Native Americans. Even
before the Europeans began reading the
Requerimiento and forcing them into treaties, it was not a good deal.
You say Dbees are fine and dandy because you haven't seen a sourcebook that says they're scouting for an invasion force or carrying a horrific contagion. Moreover, given Mr. Siembieda's support for Lazlo, you can take their propaganda for fact. Since you don't live there, you ignore the actual enormous numbers provided by the books and focus on the six or seven families of farmers that show up in your adventures.
In any realistic depiction of living in this world, not one of those comforts is available.
Seriously, stop trying to paint the CS as a noble champion of humanity. It's not.
I didn't say it was noble.
I said it was defending humanity and that your arguments are foolish for not addressing the substantial problems of telling friend from foe in this environment and possibly ignoble for not caring what the consequences of your mistakes are.