zaccheus wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Could be that it is because he is relating to creatures that are bound by time could it. If he didn't do that and just sat up there doing nothing because he knows what is going to happen or how someone feels then everyone would be claiming that he is a God that doesn't care. Like the land lord that doesn't go to the projects he owns to make his presence felt just because he knows that it is in a bad neighborhood and hears enough about it from the manager he placed over it. Your practicing eisegesis instead of exegesis. Read out into life not life into it.
Okay this is getting more into what I was hoping for in terms of this conversation (I'm not quoting your entire post because it's super long, but I'm responding to the whole thing). A couple of clarifications though. Again am not trying to debate modern christian beliefs or trying to read into the bible things that aren't there. Maybe the bible is written in such a way because it's an attempt to relate to creatures that are bound by time and therefore the language as written aren't accurate representations of the infinite God, that's fine, but that's not what is written. Clearly, as written he didn't know that Abraham was going to kill his son and therefore feared god up until the moment he stayed his hand, so trying to interpret more into that just doesn't further the discussion. Most of the passages you quoted are either people attributing things to Yahweh, or he himself simply stating that he is X (omnipotent, infinite etc). What I really want to see is passages that demonstrate this. If in fact the character Yahweh is somehow greater than Brahma, just as an example, who also states he is omnipotent, all knowing, the creater of the heavens and earth, the creator of good and evil etc but who has finite stats in rifts, it needs to be deomonstrated that Yahweh is somehow greater, in the text mind you. Getting into what people believe, or what current religions espouse is getting us no where and unfortunately people's feelings seem to be getting hurt, so I'm avoiding that now.
Psalm 33:13
The Lord looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.
I'm repeating this passage that you pointed out because it is the best one you have and it's really starting to get into the meat and potatos of what I'm looking for to take Yahweh off the list of dieties in pantheons. It demonstrates something that falls into the powers he is described. It's not quite enough so far, especially since it doesn't really seperate him out from the other gods in Pantheons, Brahma for example (I know I keep using the Hindu pantheon, but that's just becuase that one is freshest in my memory, but I doubt it's exclusive to him) is often discribed as all seeing, it's why he's depicted/described as having 4 faces, in fact there is a story where shiva cut off his fifth head just so Brahma's daughter could escape him (he wanted to have sex with her).
Okay give me what you want to see and I'll try to find them and you want them as examples but those are all going to be either someone saying that of Him or Him saying that of Himself. So are you trying to say you want statement like "God does X" instead of "God CAN do X" or "I SHALL do X?"
As for all seeing and infinite. You do realize the difference between prophetic and apocolyptic writting? Prophetic is speaking for God, it is usually instruction or a message to deal with the present while apocolyptic writing is foretelling the future a message or lesson for the future. Okay, the prophets speak for God delivering His words to man. Occasionally, less frequently than they deliver prophetic messages, a prophet will have an apocolyptic message. So Daniel and Ezekiel had so many prophesies that were very specific that came true during the 400 year gap between the canon of the OT and Jesus' birth. There you have that God is AT LEAST the God that is and will be.
Some time after Christs' return the world will be consumed (timing and such varries depending on mellinial, post-mellinial and other doctrines for when Christs' return happens, when the rapture happens and when the judgement happens) and all of creation will be made anew... yadda, yadda. Essentially God will combine Heaven and Earth and his original plan prior to the fall will come to fruition. So there you have destruction of the world, creation, resurrection of all believers, as well as peace and immortality given to ALL things. We will all be given new bodies like Christ... which may include his ability to travel as described after his resurrection. You think it and there you are. I think I'll miss meat though
God of life, death, creation, uncreation, recreation
Here are a couple lists:
Christ's Miracles
SOME OT Prophesies fullfilled by Christ