Little Girl

[ZombieSlayer01]

You and your group are heading back to your comunity after going out and getting supplies. It just turned into night and the street lights have just turned on. You hear a sound behind you and you turn around and you see an outline of a little girl not to far from your group. Its to dark for you to tell if she is a zombie or not but she just stands there and stares at you. What do you do?

[Severus Snape]

One rule I learned while gaming: If it looks innocent, either hit it with everything you've got or run away screaming bloody murder.

Little girl, out all alone, at night, DURING THE ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE? Every weapon in the party is trained on her little body, ready to take her out if she even SEEMS like the walking dead.

[Noon]

Nuke her from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Is this supposed to be a moral question, because currently there isn't much of a challenge there? Like, is there the possibility if you go up and check on her rather than shoot her down, she is a zed and a bunch of zombies burst out around you in a sort of ambush? Or little girl zeds are the most powerful zeds? Thus some sort of real threat that advocates against checking her out properly first?

Need to hot up the question, make it harder - it just gives a sense of mild paranoia right now?

Otherwise it's good your trying to tap into some sort of moral conundrum question! Keep at it!

[Oberoth]

Any good zombie slayer will have a flashlight anyway. So you could just look at her to see if she's infected. And besides, all zombies with the exception of a couple types will let out a moan when they see you. So if she stays quiet you know she is either a special type, or a little girl in shock. Even then it could be a mimic type zombie so you wouldn't know until it was right on top of you. Better figure it out quick!

[ZombieSlayer01]

This is just a trial run. I wanted to see how people would react and what they would do if I played the senario like this. But this is going to be one of the situations in my story line.

[dargo83]

every gun im my group would be trained on her till they check her out. one of the PCs and NPCs in my group both have thermal vison and they would be able to tell if shes human of a dead head. well that is till they run across a dead head that can increase there body temp to pull of the perfect minic zed.

[Noon]

Heh, how far does that zed mimicry go? Oh, they can do human body temperature! And talk with you! And work their way into your confidence by protecting you. For years at a time! Then minutes after you've died of old age, they strike...oh wait...that's not mimicry...

[dargo83]

the ruse usualy lst till ur with in arms reach and long enough till the other dead heads can move in for the kill.

[Razzinold]

Have a group member keep her in their scope, wait until she passes under a streetlight, or use a flash light and kill her if she's infected.

or

as harsh as it may sound, shoot her on sight and just assume/pray she was a zombie. Think about it realistically, all that little girl is to you/your group is one more mouth to feed, one more person to try and keep safe and another person who could possibly get you killed. Kids behaviours are unpredictable at best, depending on her age she'll be more of a hindrance than help. Look to movies for examples, kids always give away your position by crying out, or they move to slow.

[Noon]

Have a group member keep her in their scope, wait until she passes under a streetlight, or use a flash light and kill her if she's infected.

or

as harsh as it may sound, shoot her on sight and just assume/pray she was a zombie. Think about it realistically, all that little girl is to you/your group is one more mouth to feed, one more person to try and keep safe and another person who could possibly get you killed. Kids behaviours are unpredictable at best, depending on her age she'll be more of a hindrance than help. Look to movies for examples, kids always give away your position by crying out, or they move to slow.

Okay, flip the scenario - you are playing a little girl, lost, and you come across a group of heavily armed males.

Or alternatively, your group of heavily armed males encounters a military unit - and is gunned down by a heavy machine gun. Potential infection, mouths to feed, untrained and encumbering, standard policy, etc etc.

[Razzinold]

Have a group member keep her in their scope, wait until she passes under a streetlight, or use a flash light and kill her if she's infected.

or

as harsh as it may sound, shoot her on sight and just assume/pray she was a zombie. Think about it realistically, all that little girl is to you/your group is one more mouth to feed, one more person to try and keep safe and another person who could possibly get you killed. Kids behaviours are unpredictable at best, depending on her age she'll be more of a hindrance than help. Look to movies for examples, kids always give away your position by crying out, or they move to slow.

Okay, flip the scenario - you are playing a little girl, lost, and you come across a group of heavily armed males.

Or alternatively, your group of heavily armed males encounters a military unit - and is gunned down by a heavy machine gun. Potential infection, mouths to feed, untrained and encumbering, standard policy, etc etc.

First off, why does it sound like you are taking my response so personal ? You never suggested any other scenarios to any of the other responses, why single mine out ?

To answer your questions, if terms of gaming I wouldn't choose to play a lost little girl, but if i was made to by the GM than I would probably hide from everyone because I would assume they are infected.

second scenario, if my group of heavily armed males (nice of you to assume the group is all males though). I wouldn't approach the military, or the police force, because they are supposed to help people they have the greater risk of being infected. If I happen to walk around a blind corner and there they are and they immediately shoot on sight, then I duck for cover and either try and identify myself (and tell them I want nothing to do with them) return fire, or run. But seeing as how neither one of these scenarios was the posted one it doesn't really matter now does it ?

[Neo]

Keep on trucking, have someone in the rear keep an eye on her and if she moans put her down and run like hell.

[Razzinold]

Have a group member keep her in their scope, wait until she passes under a streetlight, or use a flash light and kill her if she's infected.

or

as harsh as it may sound, shoot her on sight and just assume/pray she was a zombie. Think about it realistically, all that little girl is to you/your group is one more mouth to feed, one more person to try and keep safe and another person who could possibly get you killed. Kids behaviours are unpredictable at best, depending on her age she'll be more of a hindrance than help. Look to movies for examples, kids always give away your position by crying out, or they move to slow.

Okay, flip the scenario - you are playing a little girl, lost, and you come across a group of heavily armed males.

Or alternatively, your group of heavily armed males encounters a military unit - and is gunned down by a heavy machine gun. Potential infection, mouths to feed, untrained and encumbering, standard policy, etc etc.

First off, why does it sound like you are taking my response so personal ? You never suggested any other scenarios to any of the other responses, why single mine out ?

To answer your questions, if terms of gaming I wouldn't choose to play a lost little girl, but if i was made to by the GM than I would probably hide from everyone because I would assume they are infected.

second scenario, if my group of heavily armed males (nice of you to assume the group is all males though). I wouldn't approach the military, or the police force, because they are supposed to help people they have the greater risk of being infected. If I happen to walk around a blind corner and there they are and they immediately shoot on sight, then I duck for cover and either try and identify myself (and tell them I want nothing to do with them) return fire, or run. But seeing as how neither one of these scenarios was the posted one it doesn't really matter now does it ?

LOL .. I was wondering why he got defensive too.

Maybe he didn't take it personal, it's hard to judge that when you only read someone's responses as opposed to speaking in person, but it was odd how he singled me out and suddenly my group consisted only of males

What makes me laugh is whenever people talk about this kind of stuff as real (as opposed to the game) they always go on and on about how they are so heroic and going to save so and so. Bull, if this was real and zombies were chowing down on everyone 90% of the world would kill their neighbour for a bottle of water, stuff like that happens now during ecological disasters. I see no harm in being truthful/realistic, I have two daughters of my own and I would fight tooth and nail to protect them from anyone! But as much as I'd like to think I would have compassion for my fellow man, if it really was a zombie apocalypse, I'd do anything to keep me and my family alive. If that means teaming up with people, I'd do it, if that means killing people to keep us sage...well I'd do that too

[Noon]

First off, why does it sound like you are taking my response so personal ? You never suggested any other scenarios to any of the other responses, why single mine out ?

As far as I can tell no one else actually did anything that was worth talking about (I guess aiming a gun is kind of doing something, but...blah).

The first scenario seemed to me to be a moral conundrum. I assumed you were interested in facing some yourself because that seemed to be the topic. If you don't, you don't. Okay.

What makes me laugh is whenever people talk about this kind of stuff as real (as opposed to the game) they always go on and on about how they are so heroic and going to save so and so.

But you know, if you don't want to face some moral conundrums, you don't want to go challenging what other people would do. If they're fair game for a challenge of how their character would act in a fictional scenario, then you aught to be fair game for it too, instead of thinking your being singled out.

To answer your questions, if terms of gaming I wouldn't choose to play a lost little girl, but if i was made to by the GM than I would probably hide from everyone because I would assume they are infected.

second scenario, if my group of heavily armed males (nice of you to assume the group is all males though). I wouldn't approach the military, or the police force, because they are supposed to help people they have the greater risk of being infected. If I happen to walk around a blind corner and there they are and they immediately shoot on sight, then I duck for cover and either try and identify myself (and tell them I want nothing to do with them) return fire, or run. But seeing as how neither one of these scenarios was the posted one it doesn't really matter now does it ?

That's the other thing people do along with saying they will always be heroic - they insist they'll always make the right move. They'll always hide just right, always get to avoid armed groups, always dodge the bullet, always be listened to if they shout out, always be able to run.

To be fair, it is possible to make a game where there are certain chain of right moves to make that'll get you to the win condition of the scenario/scenario goal, I'll grant.

[Severus Snape]

First off, why does it sound like you are taking my response so personal ? You never suggested any other scenarios to any of the other responses, why single mine out ?

As far as I can tell no one else actually did anything that was worth talking about (I guess aiming a gun is kind of doing something, but...blah).

So, then, I guess that everybody else who responded was ignored because "we didn't do anything"? Thanks.

[Razzinold]

The first scenario seemed to me to be a moral conundrum. I assumed you were interested in facing some yourself because that seemed to be the topic. If you don't, you don't. Okay.

How is the first scenario a moral conundrum ? I said if she's infected kill her, if you are talking about the original posted one, that one isn't either he asked what would you do in this situation.

What makes me laugh is whenever people talk about this kind of stuff as real (as opposed to the game) they always go on and on about how they are so heroic and going to save so and so.

But you know, if you don't want to face some moral conundrums, you don't want to go challenging what other people would do. If they're fair game for a challenge of how their character would act in a fictional scenario, then you aught to be fair game for it too, instead of thinking your being singled out.

I never challenged anybody's response to the posted scenario. Read what I wrote again. I responded with regards to the game then I added an additional comment about a real life situation where they would be this big amazing hero who is the savior of the human race.

To answer your questions, if terms of gaming I wouldn't choose to play a lost little girl, but if i was made to by the GM than I would probably hide from everyone because I would assume they are infected.

second scenario, if my group of heavily armed males (nice of you to assume the group is all males though). I wouldn't approach the military, or the police force, because they are supposed to help people they have the greater risk of being infected. If I happen to walk around a blind corner and there they are and they immediately shoot on sight, then I duck for cover and either try and identify myself (and tell them I want nothing to do with them) return fire, or run. But seeing as how neither one of these scenarios was the posted one it doesn't really matter now does it ?

That's the other thing people do along with saying they will always be heroic - they insist they'll always make the right move. They'll always hide just right, always get to avoid armed groups, always dodge the bullet, always be listened to if they shout out, always be able to run.

To be fair, it is possible to make a game where there are certain chain of right moves to make that'll get you to the win condition of the scenario/scenario goal, I'll grant.

Once again you are blurring the lines of my posts by mixing statements I made about a real life situation and a gaming situation.
I never insisted I would make the right decisions or if my decisions would even work, I simply stated what I would do, which is what the original poster asked us to do. It's up to the GM if it works or not.
If it is a real life situation then I would still attempt the same course of action, I wouldn't go to the military or police for help and I why go to a remote place to avoid contact with other people.
Perhaps in the future I will exclude any comments about real life situations, obviously it was the cause of confusion because it was taken as an act of gaming as opposed to what I actually wrote.

[Ranger]

Check on thermal optics. If she has a heat signature, she is a girl. If not, cut the head off and kill it.

No problem.

[ZombieSlayer01]

didnt mean for this post to get out of hand just wanted to see how people would react to this situation in the game. ive never written before so im trying to see how i can improve

[ZombieSlayer01]

by out of hand meaning that people gett offended by other posts lol

[Ravenwing]

Well its simple really what my character in my current game would do.

He'd raise his chain axe thumb its activator on and bellow as loud as possible "blood for the blood god!" Then id rush forward, it should only take me hallf a second or so to cross the distance between me and her. Then id bring my chain axe down rendering her into nice lil bitty pieces of minced flesh and bone, spraying blood everywhere.
Course I'm currently playing a world eater aspiring champion in black crusade lol.

[Noon]

The first scenario seemed to me to be a moral conundrum. I assumed you were interested in facing some yourself because that seemed to be the topic. If you don't, you don't. Okay.

How is the first scenario a moral conundrum ? I said if she's infected kill her, if you are talking about the original posted one, that one isn't either he asked what would you do in this situation.

I think for me it's a moral conundrum - for you, in terms of game play, you seem to shoot her as the status quo procedure to follow, no asking questions first.

Hey, as much as you'd shoot her, I projected the idea onto you that you'd find it to be a moral conundrum. I projected first and asked questions latter!

[Razzinold]

The first scenario seemed to me to be a moral conundrum. I assumed you were interested in facing some yourself because that seemed to be the topic. If you don't, you don't. Okay.

How is the first scenario a moral conundrum ? I said if she's infected kill her, if you are talking about the original posted one, that one isn't either he asked what would you do in this situation.

I think for me it's a moral conundrum - for you, in terms of game play, you seem to shoot her as the status quo procedure to follow, no asking questions first.

Hey, as much as you'd shoot her, I projected the idea onto you that you'd find it to be a moral conundrum. I projected first and asked questions latter!

So we're both "guilty" of shooting off before thinking, one of us with a gun and one of us with an opinion

Hopefully neither one of us find ourselves in the situation, this way we know for sure that no innocent little kids will be hurt

[Severus Snape]

Again, we're talking about a little girl, all alone, after dark, during the zombie apocalypse. NOT shooting this girl on sight would take an act of the most severe form of self-control anyone has ever seen.

[Razzinold]

Which is why I said shoot her and assume that she's a zombie. If I assume she was a zombie than there is no guilt over shooting her, she's no longer a little girl she's a souless devourer of brains!

[Dobergirl]

I think for me it's a moral conundrum - for you, in terms of game play, you seem to shoot her as the status quo procedure to follow, no asking questions first.

Morally talking, NOT shooting would be really, really dick move to all your friends. And that misplaced moral that has no place in zombie apocalypse just cost the lives of all of you ever knew and loved that were traveling with you. Your loved one just got bit and three of your friends died. And you still had to kill the kid who turned out to be zombie, only now instead of one body there are four bodies and your loved one is developing nasty gangrea in the bite wound. And that is in best possible case. In the worst case scenario, the little girl starts moaning.



The reason people even got infected in the first place was because they had "self-control." The reason the entire world is still alive is because people are shooting first, asking questions later. This is actually all very clear if you actually read the manual. To quote Brad Ashley, the leader of the Reapers; "Do it fast and know it is the right thing to be done. This may sound heartless, but it is a necessity. Hesitate and more lives may be lost, including your own."



Why would any surviving kid, no matter how young or how retarded not just scream "I AM ALIVE DO NOT SHOOT OH GOD PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT I AM COLD AND TIRED AND IT IS DARK AND VERY SCARY" and instead just stare creepily? I can kinda understand being stealthy at first but when found out, there's just no excusion for their silence and creepy blank looks. I take they were either zombie or becoming one or cultist or something worse. Either way, I'd probably bash her head with my crowbar (because melee makes less sound) just to be sure and my friends would praise me for my quick reaction time.


What kind of a kid has NO reaction to group of highly trained and highly armed people who suddenly spot them? I tell you, a zombie that was once a kid.


Besides, a little girl wouldn't last on their own for two days, there's no way there's any "real" kids out in the city. In the safe areas, yeah. But not in the actual city. That is just impossible.

Okay, flip the scenario - you are playing a little girl, lost, and you come across a group of heavily armed males.

Yell "I AM NOT ZOMBIE!!" as hard as I can.


It would probably give two seconds time for me to live enough for them to verify I, in fact am not a zombie.


If I would still be killed, well, the GM was just being douchy that day I guess.

Or alternatively, your group of heavily armed males encounters a military unit - and is gunned down by a heavy machine gun. Potential infection, mouths to feed, untrained and encumbering, standard policy, etc etc.

Say, what? Untrained? I'm a reaper and I'm hanging with other FEMALE reapers. (Two dozen of them to be exact) How could a military unit just randomly machine gun an entire group of reapers without absolute no resistance? In fact, how is this scenario any plausible? Please tell me why would a miliatry branch attack a pack of reapers?


"Oh whoops, I guess we're all gonna die. Boy, was that stupid " -General not-so-smart, before zombies killed him.

[Noon]

I think for me it's a moral conundrum - for you, in terms of game play, you seem to shoot her as the status quo procedure to follow, no asking questions first.

Morally talking, NOT shooting would be really, really dick move to all your friends. And that misplaced moral that has no place in zombie apocalypse just cost the lives of all of you ever knew and loved that were traveling with you. Your loved one just got bit and three of your friends died. And you still had to kill the kid who turned out to be zombie, only now instead of one body there are four bodies and your loved one is developing nasty gangrea in the bite wound. And that is in best possible case.

Till you find the girl is one of your friends cousins and still quite human...

But never mind that, how's it a dick move? Do the zombie girls have some sort of amazing leaping attack so that if you get close to check (or heck, even take a second to aim a torch on her), she leaps? Perhaps a ton of hitpoints as well? So there just isn't any time or capacity to check?

Frankly, if the zombies are really that powerful, then it doesn't matter if you shoot. They will kill you regardless.

And if they aren't that powerful, exactly where's the reason for shooting first coming from?

In the worst case scenario, the little girl starts moaning.

??? If she turned out to be a zombie, her making zombie noises is the worst case scenario?

The reason people even got infected in the first place was because they had "self-control." The reason the entire world is still alive is because people are shooting first, asking questions later. This is actually all very clear if you actually read the manual. To quote Brad Ashley, the leader of the Reapers; "Do it fast and know it is the right thing to be done. This may sound heartless, but it is a necessity. Hesitate and more lives may be lost, including your own."

Heh, I'd like that Brad Ashley quote to read "Do it fast and know *big blood splotch from a head shot on the page*" as someone shot him because for an instant they suspected he was a zed and shot first, rather than asking questions.

Hey look, if I was your GM I would so often have you spot party members in darkened corners and such as you explored, but I'd say it's just a figure. Either you'd be blowing your own party apart, or you'd be checking your fire first (or complaining that actually the zombie apocalypse would be perfectly well lit - some players are like that. They always think they would be on team happy fun time).

Why would any surviving kid, no matter how young or how retarded not just scream "I AM ALIVE DO NOT SHOOT OH GOD PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT I AM COLD AND TIRED AND IT IS DARK AND VERY SCARY" and instead just stare creepily? I can kinda understand being stealthy at first but when found out, there's just no excusion for their silence and creepy blank looks. I take they were either zombie or becoming one or cultist or something worse.

You're blaming a child?

As Skinner in the Simpsons says "Yes, it's always the children..."

What kind of a kid has NO reaction to group of highly trained and highly armed people who suddenly spot them? I tell you, a zombie that was once a kid.

Depends, I guess. If a scientific study came out saying humans, particular children, do commonly have a freeze reflex (like many slow animals do, as if your not faster than the preditor it's actually worse to run)

I mean, if in your game world normal kids never act that way, okay, you can have it any way you want in your game world.

Besides, a little girl wouldn't last on their own for two days, there's no way there's any "real" kids out in the city. In the safe areas, yeah. But not in the actual city. That is just impossible.

Well, perhaps Newt from Aliens was a bit contrived....who knows*shrug*?

Okay, flip the scenario - you are playing a little girl, lost, and you come across a group of heavily armed males.

Yell "I AM NOT ZOMBIE!!" as hard as I can.

"Roll save Vs horror to be able to do so"
"Oh, an armed group of strangers isn't horrible, they are wonderful - your horror roll is entirely missplaced, GM!"
"Eh, maybe. But then again, I tell you to roll, then I ask questions latter..."

If I would still be killed, well, the GM was just being douchy that day I guess.

Douchy because he has NPC's who shoot first, ask questions latter?

Fair enough. But kind of my point. Though I wouldn't use the word douchy.

Or alternatively, your group of heavily armed males encounters a military unit - and is gunned down by a heavy machine gun. Potential infection, mouths to feed, untrained and encumbering, standard policy, etc etc.

Say, what? Untrained? I'm a reaper and I'm hanging with other FEMALE reapers. (Two dozen of them to be exact) How could a military unit just randomly machine gun an entire group of reapers without absolute no resistance? In fact, how is this scenario any plausible? Please tell me why would a miliatry branch attack a pack of reapers?

Because they didn't stop to ask questions.

Yeah, it is stupid not to ask questions first. I get that.

[Dobergirl]

I think for me it's a moral conundrum - for you, in terms of game play, you seem to shoot her as the status quo procedure to follow, no asking questions first.

Morally talking, NOT shooting would be really, really dick move to all your friends. And that misplaced moral that has no place in zombie apocalypse just cost the lives of all of you ever knew and loved that were traveling with you. Your loved one just got bit and three of your friends died. And you still had to kill the kid who turned out to be zombie, only now instead of one body there are four bodies and your loved one is developing nasty gangrea in the bite wound. And that is in best possible case

Till you find the girl is one of your friends cousins and still quite human...

That is 100% impossible and the entire idea is ludicrous at best and insulting to intelligence at worst.

But never mind that, how's it a dick move?

You put many lives at stake for absolute no reason. In fact, you do worse than that, you may doom entire areas of survivors, including indirectly be responsible for deaths of countless other children by letting yourself and your team mates die.


The value of the child is absolute nothing compared to how big of a loss it'd be if a reaper would die. The effects would be tremendous, longspanning and immediate. There is just no justification for putting them to risk for something like that.

Do the zombie girls have some sort of amazing leaping attack so that if you get close to check (or heck, even take a second to aim a torch on her), she leaps?

Yes. You get too close, you are going to get bitten in nasty way.

Perhaps a ton of hitpoints as well? So there just isn't any time or capacity to check?

Or need, like I said.

Frankly, if the zombies are really that powerful, then it doesn't matter if you shoot. They will kill you regardless.

And if they aren't that powerful, exactly where's the reason for shooting first coming from?

Um, have you even read the roleplaying book? Zombies ARE more powerful than average person. And I didn't say I'd shoot, I'd bash their head with my crowbar that I'm skilled with, since I'm a reaper.

Of course, killing zombies is what I do, of course I can take her down. Zombies are really powerful and dangerous but reapers are professional zombie slayers.

In the worst case scenario, the little girl starts moaning.

[??? If she turned out to be a zombie, her making zombie noises is the worst case scenario?

Yup, that settled it. You have never played Dead Reign in your entire life and come here preaching when you do not know the rules or the setting.


She begins to moan, it causes Converge. Soon you're figting tens of zombies, then hundreds, then thousands. All of them moaning, all of them alerting more zombies. Zombies are rising and coming from every single direction and you literally, have soon nowhere to go and are overwhelmed and killed.

The reason people even got infected in the first place was because they had "self-control." The reason the entire world is still alive is because people are shooting first, asking questions later. This is actually all very clear if you actually read the manual. To quote Brad Ashley, the leader of the Reapers; "Do it fast and know it is the right thing to be done. This may sound heartless, but it is a necessity. Hesitate and more lives may be lost, including your own."

Heh, I'd like that Brad Ashley quote to read "Do it fast and know *big blood splotch from a head shot on the page*" as someone shot him because for an instant they suspected he was a zed and shot first, rather than asking questions.

No one would think of Brad as zombie. No one.

The entire idea of someone being able to kill him like that is just retarded enough but for a human to do it thinking he's a zombie?! That is the... Dumbest thing I have ever read!


By the way, thank you for such a classy way of killing off the savior of humanity.

Hey look, if I was your GM I would so often have you spot party members in darkened corners and such as you explored, but I'd say it's just a figure. Either you'd be blowing your own party apart, or you'd be checking your fire first (or complaining that actually the zombie apocalypse would be perfectly well lit - some players are like that. They always think they would be on team happy fun time).

That is not how Reapers operate.

Why would any surviving kid, no matter how young or how retarded not just scream "I AM ALIVE DO NOT SHOOT OH GOD PLEASE DO NOT SHOOT I AM COLD AND TIRED AND IT IS DARK AND VERY SCARY" and instead just stare creepily? I can kinda understand being stealthy at first but when found out, there's just no excusion for their silence and creepy blank looks. I take they were either zombie or becoming one or cultist or something worse.

You're blaming a child?

As Skinner in the Simpsons says "Yes, it's always the children..."

If it's a creepy and acts absolutely no way like a real child would, yeah, I blame them. That is not natural and I'd be killing them, as soon as possible.

What kind of a kid has NO reaction to group of highly trained and highly armed people who suddenly spot them? I tell you, a zombie that was once a kid.

Depends, I guess. If a scientific study came out saying humans, particular children, do commonly have a freeze reflex (like many slow animals do, as if your not faster than the preditor it's actually worse to run)

I mean, if in your game world normal kids never act that way, okay, you can have it any way you want in your game world.

A kid with freeze reflex is equilavent of reacting to a bright flash, they bring their hands up and are startled and shaking and most likely whimpering. Not standing in darkness with cold lifeless eyes and in silence.

Besides, a little girl wouldn't last on their own for two days, there's no way there's any "real" kids out in the city. In the safe areas, yeah. But not in the actual city. That is just impossible.

Well, perhaps Newt from Aliens was a bit contrived....who knows*shrug*?

Yeah but not as contrived as idea of a little girl surviving in zombie infested Los Angeles.

Okay, flip the scenario - you are playing a little girl, lost, and you come across a group of heavily armed males.

Yell "I AM NOT ZOMBIE!!" as hard as I can.

"Roll save Vs horror to be able to do so"
"Oh, an armed group of strangers isn't horrible, they are wonderful - your horror roll is entirely missplaced, GM!"
"Eh, maybe. But then again, I tell you to roll, then I ask questions latter..."

No offense but you sound like a really unfun gm to play with.

If I would still be killed, well, the GM was just being douchy that day I guess.

Douchy because he has NPC's who shoot first, ask questions latter?

Because they put me into a retarded, out of place scenario and forced me to play the way the game was never intended to be played.

Fair enough. But kind of my point. Though I wouldn't use the word douchy.

I was stretching for words. It was the first thing to cross my mind.

Or alternatively, your group of heavily armed males encounters a military unit - and is gunned down by a heavy machine gun. Potential infection, mouths to feed, untrained and encumbering, standard policy, etc etc.

Say, what? Untrained? I'm a reaper and I'm hanging with other FEMALE reapers. (Two dozen of them to be exact) How could a military unit just randomly machine gun an entire group of reapers without absolute no resistance? In fact, how is this scenario any plausible? Please tell me why would a miliatry branch attack a pack of reapers?

Because they didn't stop to ask questions.

No. You cannot take down an entire pack of reapers with what little remains of army. (For the record, the world has almost no army left)

Even if for some reason these army folks could somehow assemble together enough to form a fighting stand against TWO DOZEN REAPERS, there is absolute NO reason why they would be fighting against THEIR CHAMPIONS. You did NOT answer why would anyone well in their head attack reapers, the zombie slayers and the people who have helped humanity to survive??!


What would happen in your case scenario of opening fire on them, is Reapers returning fire or if the army is too great force (lol), they would just ride away with minimal losses.

Yeah, it is stupid not to ask questions first. I get that.

It's also stupid and rude to ignore questions and brush them aside. Like you did.

[Noon]

That is 100% impossible and the entire idea is ludicrous at best and insulting to intelligence at worst.

I think I'll get off at this stop, because either your right and I'm insulting your intelligence - or actually it's the reverse and you're insulting mine. Neithers a good outcome.

The idea it's impossible for someone encountered to be a near relative? I think pretty much any scientific test of that would prove it false. So if I'm insulting, science is insulting as well.

[Dobergirl]

That is 100% impossible and the entire idea is ludicrous at best and insulting to intelligence at worst.

I think I'll get off at this stop, because either your right and I'm insulting your intelligence - or actually it's the reverse and you're insulting mine. Neithers a good outcome.

The idea it's impossible for someone encountered to be a near relative? I think pretty much any scientific test of that would prove it false. So if I'm insulting, science is insulting as well.

It is insulting because the family of reapers are most likely either dead or in safe area already. Like I said, a child would not survive for two days in Los Angeles full of zombies.

[bradshaw]

No one would think of Brad as zombie. No one.

Love it.

[Razzinold]

Not to nit pick, but....she and Noon were talking back and forth, not ZombieSlayer01 (who would be the original poster.)

[Dobergirl]

I think I'll get off at this stop, because either your right and I'm insulting your intelligence - or actually it's the reverse and you're insulting mine. Neithers a good outcome.

I never implied any insults to your intelligence though I did question your decisions as GM would not make for a fun game. Bending rules is understandable and all but you're basically going against the very foundation of Dead Reign. What you describe is better suited for Beyond the Supernatural.

Don't get me wrong, I totally do see what you're after and I can see how this could make for a fun BtS scenario. However, this sort of scenario is not plausible in the Dead Reign setting.


Also Noon, please don't leave the discussion. You ignored most of my post and I was really looking forward to you answering some of my questions.

You make it seem as if Reapers are some indestructible force. A bunch of dudes with rifles, handguns, grenades and crowbars on motorcycles are no match for a single M1 Abrams, or any organized detachment of the military. The reapers are not 'the champions' of the military. Did I miss that piece somewhere in one of the books? And they'd probably get attacked as military detachments attempted to restore order to various areas if they were met with resistance.

I never said they're indestructible force. I also mentioned there were no males, there's two dozen well equiped reaper females. What I do not understand is how you and Noon keep on thinking that there's some sort of huge army campment around the world of Dead Reign. In fact, and I quote this is how the forum section of it is described as

"You are on your own. The Army is MIA and our government is gone! "

Army folks were some of the first people who were infected. Majority of army are infected and turned to zombies, what little survivors are left are scattered and scared and NOT organized at all. Actually, some of the survivors may have become reapers. The miliatry is pretty much non existant at the moment and the few that are left are out gunned and out manned by the reapers.


The idea that there would be M1 Abrams going around does not sound very plausible.


The reapers are recognized as champions of humanity because they go around and do what the miliatry esentially cannot do. Kill zombies and restore peace and hope to areas that have fallen to zombie scourge and to help establish safe zones.

I screwed something up in replying to quotes, but I had replies above as well they just didn't show up separately

I hope you get them to work because I'd love to hear your rebutes.

[bradshaw]

[quote="Horizon911"]
"You are on your own. The Army is MIA and our government is gone! "
[/quote="Horizon911"]
Just wait till Endless dead

[bradshaw]

"You are on your own. The Army is MIA and our government is gone! "

Just wait till Endless dead

[Colt47]

Well, in the light that I can't figure out if she is alive or dead from a good distance, I'd make a compromise and shoot her in the head, then go figure out if it was alive or not. I mean, we could go down the zombie version of the prisoner conundrum, but it's never worth it.

[Arnie100]

Oh, come on...how many of you have seen the Dawn Of The Dead remake or the first episode of The Walking Dead!?

[G]

Pause, motioning my companions to take covered and concealed positions. Wait a moment to see if she walks into the light.

Then, as a half Zombie my most recent character would have no problems slowly bicycling close enough (while staying out of the street lights) to be able to ask where her bicycle is (It could be one of many possible questions). Lets call that 20'.

Meanwhile my companions would have taken cover & concealed sniper positions and be looking for enemies doing the same - so that, should this be an ambush by HUMANS on other humans I will have backup.

...Remind myself that even if she was human, she survived somehow, and that could be by taking advantage of people.

Reactions from others, since you wanted them may be things like lighting and throwing a flare near her (Zombies would move away from the flare while humans would move to pick it up).

Also, using whatever optics are available to get a better view.

Remember that from a writing perspective Zombie fiction is supposed to be a story about the human condition.

...but truthfully, I wouldn't be out at night.

[ZombieSlayer01]

from reading all of the arguments from everybody and seeing how different people would react to the current situation and I really do apprieciate the help and responses from everybody in helping me get a better understanding on how everybody acts differently. So now im goin gto add on the the current situation and make things more intresting.

Ok you and your group have comfirmed that she is human. She tells you that her name is Rose and she has been hiding in an abandoned storage unit for 2 days after her parents have told her to hide in there for safty. She asks that if she can come with you to your safe haven and in return she will tell you all of the hidding spots that her parents hid supplies at. What do you do?

[Trooper Jim]

OK i am quickly growing weary of the whole "kill the pregnant woman or child" mentality of some of your guys characters. I kind of thought the whole point of the game is humanity surviving the zombie apocalypse and rebuilding. How can we survive as a species if you kill the future generations? My character would probably of killed anyone that tried to kill the child without investigating it first. But he has a strong personal belief in what is right and what and what is wrong.

And as a GM, there would be consequences for the "shoot first" mentality. Oh wait that child you cleaved in two with your chainsaw.........yea she turned out to be the missing child of another reaper gang or surviving military unit. And guess what, her father and his group were looking for the child and rounded the corner in time to watch you MURDER her, oops. Yea that might lead to a tense moment or two. Or maybe the child has some kind of special ability or knowledge the group would find useful. Perhaps she has some psi powers that allow her to pass by zeds undetected. Perhaps she also knows the location of some nearby supplies or survivors. Just sayin.........

[Colt47]

OK i am quickly growing weary of the whole "kill the pregnant woman or child" mentality of some of your guys characters. I kind of thought the whole point of the game is humanity surviving the zombie apocalypse and rebuilding. How can we survive as a species if you kill the future generations? My character would probably of killed anyone that tried to kill the child without investigating it first. But he has a strong personal belief in what is right and what and what is wrong.

And as a GM, there would be consequences for the "shoot first" mentality. Oh wait that child you cleaved in two with your chainsaw.........yea she turned out to be the missing child of another reaper gang or surviving military unit. And guess what, her father and his group were looking for the child and rounded the corner in time to watch you MURDER her, oops. Yea that might lead to a tense moment or two. Or maybe the child has some kind of special ability or knowledge the group would find useful. Perhaps she has some psi powers that allow her to pass by zeds undetected. Perhaps she also knows the location of some nearby supplies or survivors. Just sayin.........

Well first off, my decision has nothing to do with in game playing as a character. It has to do with a situation that literally can tear a group apart BECAUSE of it's nature. I never throw situations like this to a gaming group unless they really want it badly. Usually, if they want to run a somewhat morally ambiguous scenario badly they already have it figured out so there isn't a major table conflict / philosophical debate.

In the end you are demonstrating the entire problem with the situation, without realizing it.

[Razzinold]

OK i am quickly growing weary of the whole "kill the pregnant woman or child" mentality of some of your guys characters. I kind of thought the whole point of the game is humanity surviving the zombie apocalypse and rebuilding. How can we survive as a species if you kill the future generations? My character would probably of killed anyone that tried to kill the child without investigating it first. But he has a strong personal belief in what is right and what and what is wrong.

That point right there illustrates perfectly the dangers of traveling in groups. I know groups have their benefits as well, strength in numbers, different skill sets, etc. But having many people also means having many opinions and people argue and can't agree at the best of times.
The game is about survival, and as previously stated I think the small child presents a large danger to the group. Look at what you said above, your character would be willing to kill a group member because you felt they didn't do a good enough job determining if a complete stranger was a zombie or not. They see a long figure and go "crap a zombie!" and kill them, so your character's response is "hey buddy, she might have been human" and blow them away ? (Notice how in every zombie movie it's the people who hesitate and call out to the "person" are the ones who get killed ?) So now the best friend of the dude you just killed has a gun to your head, and someone who favours you, puts a gun to their head. So now it's a Mexican stand off, all because of one person who may or may not be a zombie was shot. So now, while you are all focused on fighting one another, the 20 other zombies behind her that you didn't previously notice are upon you and eat you all , or a few more of you shoot each other, or hopefully nobody else dies this night and you guys go back to the safe house.

And as a GM, there would be consequences for the "shoot first" mentality. Oh wait that child you cleaved in two with your chainsaw.........yea she turned out to be the missing child of another reaper gang or surviving military unit. And guess what, her father and his group were looking for the child and rounded the corner in time to watch you MURDER her, oops. Yea that might lead to a tense moment or two. Or maybe the child has some kind of special ability or knowledge the group would find useful. Perhaps she has some psi powers that allow her to pass by zeds undetected. Perhaps she also knows the location of some nearby supplies or survivors. Just sayin.........

As the GM you are entitled to that course of action, but realistically what are the odds of them finding her at that exact moment of you pulling the trigger and not after she's dead, or finding her at all for that matter ?
As a player though my response would be, "she was a freshly turned zombie so we killed her". It's dark and she has their back to them, how can they say different. I offer my condolences and remind him that his daughter was already dead the moment she turned and her soul is in a better place. As for the bit with powers, it's not like we lost a group as an asset, we never had the powers before and still don't and we don't even know she has them unless you as a GM tells us after we kill her, which IMO is kind of a petty thing to do, because if we hadn't killed her I bet she has no powers and is just a regular kid.
I know their has to be consequences for player actions or they will just run unchecked, but lets face it GMs are a fan of sticking it to players after the fact.
player "how many crates in the warehouse"
gm "20 or so"
player "ok don't have time to check them all, the zombies are heading this way and will be here in a few minutes.I take the time to check half"
not finding anything of value you move on, later on (or after the session is complete that night) GM claims, "too bad guys if you would have checked all the crates you would have found something awesome". Even though you didn't have time to check them all because of whatever scenario the GM had you in the middle of.


As for the second half of the posted scenario, I would put it to a vote and my vote would be to not bring her unless our safe house was close. If the rest agreed to bring her, I would check her for infection, constantly check to make sure we weren't being followed, check her for weapons and any kind of tracking device (in case the whole thing is a setup for raiders to find our safe house) than quarantine her once we get back to the safe house.

[MurderCityDisciple]

You and your group are heading back to your comunity after going out and getting supplies. It just turned into night and the street lights have just turned on. You hear a sound behind you and you turn around and you see an outline of a little girl not to far from your group. Its to dark for you to tell if she is a zombie or not but she just stands there and stares at you. What do you do?

Hum...street lights are still working..lucky.

Well I would approach the girl with my Dog Catcher Pole at the ready. If I need pulverize her skull with my trusty 4lb. Engineer's Hammer it's a smiple catch and not release procedure after that.

[Colt47]

Well, in game I'd probably follow a similar tactic to MurderCityDisciple and attempt to restrain the girl until a decent examination can be done. Otherwise, if there's no way to restrain the girl without potentially getting bitten (assuming zombie), then leaving her alone and seeing what she does next is the next best option.

Assuming that the street lights mean we are in a city or urban area, firing guns is a very bad idea as it will attract just about every zombie in the area. Throwing a flare to see what the girl looks like might reveal if she is a zombie or not, but the light could attract zombies to the area and put the girl in danger if she is not a zombie.

Also, we are missing information such as how long has it been since the wave, the condition of the location, known activity from other factions (it could be the daughter of a death cultist for all we know), and how close we are to a known school with a gymnasium. Heck, the little girl could be leading 100+ fast attack child zombies. Brings a new meaning to "Schools out Children"

[G]

This would be why, in some Zombie fiction you will see the theme of, once you get into a safe area, the people are not allowed to leave it and have contact with the outside world. That prevents them from using radios to get Zombie cultists (or BANDITS) who are holding family members hostage from revealing your location.

Or bandits following scavengers home.

At least until you are big enough to be able to fight off any invasion force the standard person could raise against you, which in the case of a zombie cultist is a convergence of a million zombies.

...and this doesn't include what a smart zombie is capable of doing.

[Angel]

I have been playing RPG for about 30yrs on and off. I have to say that I find Dead Reign to be the most interesting of the Palladium Games. Having watched a few Zombie movies and read about a few real life Disasters such as the Tsunami I tend to think that the basic problem is that people still think that the world or area they are living in is still safe, 9-5 kinda place when in fact it has suddenly become an extremally dangerous disaster area. Speaking as a GM I'm not overly convinced by a lot of the survival strategies that have been mentioned and if anything it seems to show that most people who aren't trained in scout/outdoor/survival training simply don't know what to do when they are suddenly dropped into a disaster situation. When even talking to a little girl becomes a matter of life or death then there are obviously serious problems which haven't been worked out from a RPG sense.
Not that I am saying I know what the answers are in a RPG sense but it stills seems to potential for an adventure as building a safe haven was an interesting campaign idea.
It adds an interesting roleplay aspect in that if your character doesn't know what to do, hasn't read the zombie survival guide etc, how do you roleplay that out withought everyone getting killed and the game loosing any sense of fun.

[Dobergirl]

from reading all of the arguments from everybody and seeing how different people would react to the current situation and I really do apprieciate the help and responses from everybody in helping me get a better understanding on how everybody acts differently. So now im goin gto add on the the current situation and make things more intresting.

Ok you and your group have comfirmed that she is human. She tells you that her name is Rose and she has been hiding in an abandoned storage unit for 2 days after her parents have told her to hide in there for safty. She asks that if she can come with you to your safe haven and in return she will tell you all of the hidding spots that her parents hid supplies at. What do you do?

Well, that makes things far simpler. Check her for signs if she's zombie (pretty or faker comes to mind) and if not, help her out. If she is, just kill her.

I'd probably have the group vote and see if she can be trusted and be extra weary, maybe taking a detour to safe zone. The last thing the people I protect need is bandits who used their child as lure to find way to them.

OK i am quickly growing weary of the whole "kill the pregnant woman or child" mentality of some of your guys characters.

A pregnant woman is two lives, herself and the baby. A child is one. That is not same thing at all and I am not sure if zombies can get pregnant. (In some movies they can, but maybe someone more well versed can answer if the zombies in Dead Reign can reproduce?)

I kind of thought the whole point of the game is humanity surviving the zombie apocalypse and rebuilding. How can we survive as a species if you kill the future generations?

I am not on some sort of spree killing children. It's just one child who shouldn't even be alive honestly speaking. Killing her would not be "killing future genearions". By teh way, my character has children too. Many of the group I hang out with are mothers and fathers who are doing what they do exactly for the future generations.

My character would probably of killed anyone that tried to kill the child without investigating it first. But he has a strong personal belief in what is right and what and what is wrong.

Your character is a hypocrite and should be played as evil. For saying he has strong belief of what is right and wrong, you think it's okay to MURDER your friend just because of a mistake like that? Like people pointed out, that would probably start a gunfight and soon everyone was dead. That's not really a thing good aligned character would do. Even if for some reason this wouldn't cause rebute from you killing a fellow person, I'd make you become evil in aligment for balant murder and your reputation would be tarnished for ages to come.


But even if for some reason no one bats an eye of balant murder and such, you've just wasted a person who can actually do something and you have now two bodies. I'd like to see you explain this to the family of the person you killed with your good guy

"Well, Billy killed a girl who may have been a zombie. I didn't like that, so I killed him. Then again, I have strong belief in what is right and wrong."

And as a GM, there would be consequences for the "shoot first" mentality. Oh wait that child you cleaved in two with your chainsaw.........yea she turned out to be the missing child of another reaper gang or surviving military unit. And guess what, her father and his group were looking for the child and rounded the corner in time to watch you MURDER her, oops. Yea that might lead to a tense moment or two.

Reapers value life over everything but despise zombies enough to choose death always over becoming one. A reaper would understand if you killed the girl, it was not a pleasant action but if she was a risk of becoming one or may have already been one, they'd probably kill her by themself anyway.

There's no organized miliatry units. Again, the army is MIA.

Or maybe the child has some kind of special ability or knowledge the group would find useful. Perhaps she has some psi powers that allow her to pass by zeds undetected. Perhaps she also knows the location of some nearby supplies or survivors. Just sayin.........

I am going to break your bubble again but kids are not useful like in movies and comics really. If anything, they take tons of time and nurture for them to grow up into strong people. In a time of zombie apocalypse, neither is really all that avaivable. To get a girl, would require a lot of time from some other survivors as well as more mouths to feed. And to prevent her from being totally useless in later years, time must be spent on educating and training her. Again, consuming time and resources.


I also checked (all three of the books released) and there's no psionic powers anywhere in Dead Reign. (Something that genuinely surprised me, but then again it's more down to the earth and realistic) Plus, there's a high chance of finding the supplies on your own. In other words, they do not contribute anything really.

[Colt47]

Yeah, basically it comes down to shoot the girl, ignore the girl, or restrain the girl if possible to do safely. Personally, I'd err on her being a child zombie as the chances of a little girl surviving on her own alone in a zombie apocalypse without some kind of training or guidance is near zero. The whole humanitarian "don't shoot the girl, she might be an innocent living being just wondering the street looking for mommy" doesn't hold up given the scenario we are dealing with.

Likewise, people with that kind of non-logical humanitarian outlook are the people that didn't survive the zombie apocalypse. Why? Because the zombies ate them when they probably thought the exact same thing about a beaten up loved one or a neighbor. In fact, doesn't it make this a rather clear point in the main book somewhere?

[Dobergirl]

Yeah, basically it comes down to shoot the girl, ignore the girl, or restrain the girl if possible to do safely. Personally, I'd err on her being a child zombie as the chances of a little girl surviving on her own alone in a zombie apocalypse without some kind of training or guidance is near zero. The whole humanitarian "don't shoot the girl, she might be an innocent living being just wondering the street looking for mommy" doesn't hold up given the scenario we are dealing with.

Likewise, people with that kind of non-logical humanitarian outlook are the people that didn't survive the zombie apocalypse. Why? Because the zombies ate them when they probably thought the exact same thing about a beaten up loved one or a neighbor. In fact, doesn't it make this a rather clear point in the main book somewhere?

Yes, from page 8 and forward we get the details of the little girls being killed and such. People with non logical humanitarian outlook (I am totally stealing that description since it's awesome) would NOT be survivors, they would have been one of the first people to be infected. The idea that someone playing perfect "boysocut" would survive the entire apocalypse unscratched is just illogical.

You should especially read page 10 if you're thinking about army going around killing zombies and saving little girls as viable options.

[Traska]

I'm thinking, y'know, eight-year-old white girl, middle of the ghetto, bunch of zombies, this time of night with quantum physics books? She about to start something. She's about eight years old, those books are WAY too advanced for her. If you ask me, I'd say she's up to something. And to be honest, I'd appreciate it if you eased up off my back about it.

[kaneman19]

kill the little girl fast and quite no chances then burn the body only way its the