R.C.C. and skills

[Shadowfyr]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

[Akashic Soldier]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

If you select an O.C.C. you now select the O.C.C. skills INSTEAD of the R.C.C. skills.

[Shadowfyr]

So the OCC supercedes the RCC skills completely?

And what book does it show this info in? I cant seem to find it anywhere.

[Akashic Soldier]

So the OCC supercedes the RCC skills completely?

And what book does it show this info in? I cant seem to find it anywhere.

It normally says it in the R.C.C. entry itself in the skills section but it may not in older books. What R.C.C. are you selecting?

[Jedrious]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

If you select an O.C.C. you now select the O.C.C. skills INSTEAD of the R.C.C. skills.

There are some R.C.C.s that add additional skills trained on top of a chosen O.C.C., but their skill sections specify so

[drewkitty ~..~]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

[Shadowfyr]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please dont go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesnt seem like an overload.

[Shadowfyr]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Sry i have to add as well, you say this like RCC and OCC are 2 seperate things, but in your signature you still have it listed that RCC=Race. Arent you just contradicting yourself then?

[Akashic Soldier]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please dont go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesnt seem like an overload.

Ignore him. He still does not understand that a selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and wants the entire game system to be wrong and crumble so his logic can prevail despite it being explained to him over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

In Palladium there are two "racial" options.

Race -- used for generally unremarkable beings without cultural and mental specializations, like Humans, Elves, Ogres, etc.

And

R.C.C. (Racial Character Class) -- used for beings that are somewhat pigeonholed when it comes to their thinking or culture. As I've explained before, think of it like Klingons being warriors. If you were a Klingon you are a warrior and have a warrior code and in your official write up you could likely only choose Men at Arms O.C.C.'s and even if you didn't you would still be from a warrior culture, it is literally in your blood you can't help it.

The selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and not a separate class. As such I'd rule that R.C.C.'s can't really change their class unlike members of Races, because they can't really change what they are. Anyways, the point is don't worry about it -- that is just Drew doing what he always does and point.

[Jedrious]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please dont go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesnt seem like an overload.

Ignore him. He still does not understand that a selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and wants the entire game system to be wrong and crumble so his logic can prevail despite it being explained to him over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

In Palladium there are two "racial" options.

Race -- used for generally unremarkable beings without cultural and mental specializations, like Elves, Ogres, etc.

And

R.C.C. (Racial Character Class) -- used for beings that are somewhat pigeonholed when it comes to their thinking or culture. As I've explained before, think of it like Klingons being warriors. If you were a Klingon you are a warrior and have a warrior code and in your official write up you could likely only choose Men at Arms O.C.C.'s and even if you didn't you would still be from a warrior culture, it is literally in your blood you can't help it.

The selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and not a separate class. As such I'd rule that R.C.C.'s can't really change their class unlike members of Races, because they can't really change what they are. Anyways, the point is don't worry about it -- that is just Drew doing what he always does and point.

Actually A/S, Drew has a very good point about the books going back and forth between labeling a race a race or an rcc, somethimes even in the same book. Long story short, read the entire racial entry very carefully for each race.

[Shadowfyr]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please dont go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesnt seem like an overload.

Ignore him. He still does not understand that a selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and wants the entire game system to be wrong and crumble so his logic can prevail despite it being explained to him over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

In Palladium there are two "racial" options.

Race -- used for generally unremarkable beings without cultural and mental specializations, like Elves, Ogres, etc.

And

R.C.C. (Racial Character Class) -- used for beings that are somewhat pigeonholed when it comes to their thinking or culture. As I've explained before, think of it like Klingons being warriors. If you were a Klingon you are a warrior and have a warrior code and in your official write up you could likely only choose Men at Arms O.C.C.'s and even if you didn't you would still be from a warrior culture, it is literally in your blood you can't help it.

The selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and not a separate class. As such I'd rule that R.C.C.'s can't really change their class unlike members of Races, because they can't really change what they are. Anyways, the point is don't worry about it -- that is just Drew doing what he always does and point.

Actually A/S, Drew has a very good point about the books going back and forth between labeling a race a race or an rcc, somethimes even in the same book. Long story short, read the entire racial entry very carefully for each race.

In PFRPG it does list between races and occs. But once you seem to touch in the realm of Rifts its now listed as RCC and OCC. Now reading them they are a race and they also list if you want to play (in my case) a Tarbull Elite Infantry, i just want the Tarbull creature himself doing something else completely, The person has a whole story to go with it as to why its a Cyber-knight; and in my group we have that creative flexibility. Im just asking for help as to which skills are normally selected when a person does choose an Rcc as their race and a whole other OCC.
So i dont end up in this case (All skills of the Tarbull + OCC/Related/Secondary skills of the Cyber-Knight)

[Mack]

Long story short, read the entire racial entry very carefully for each race.

This is the correct answer.

[Jedrious]

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please dont go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesnt seem like an overload.

Ignore him. He still does not understand that a selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and wants the entire game system to be wrong and crumble so his logic can prevail despite it being explained to him over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

In Palladium there are two "racial" options.

Race -- used for generally unremarkable beings without cultural and mental specializations, like Elves, Ogres, etc.

And

R.C.C. (Racial Character Class) -- used for beings that are somewhat pigeonholed when it comes to their thinking or culture. As I've explained before, think of it like Klingons being warriors. If you were a Klingon you are a warrior and have a warrior code and in your official write up you could likely only choose Men at Arms O.C.C.'s and even if you didn't you would still be from a warrior culture, it is literally in your blood you can't help it.

The selected O.C.C. is an extension of your R.C.C. and not a separate class. As such I'd rule that R.C.C.'s can't really change their class unlike members of Races, because they can't really change what they are. Anyways, the point is don't worry about it -- that is just Drew doing what he always does and point.

Actually A/S, Drew has a very good point about the books going back and forth between labeling a race a race or an rcc, somethimes even in the same book. Long story short, read the entire racial entry very carefully for each race.

In PFRPG it does list between races and occs. But once you seem to touch in the realm of Rifts its now listed as RCC and OCC. Now reading them they are a race and they also list if you want to play (in my case) a Tarbull Elite Infantry, i just want the Tarbull creature himself doing something else completely, The person has a whole story to go with it as to why its a Cyber-knight; and in my group we have that creative flexibility. Im just asking for help as to which skills are normally selected when a person does choose an Rcc as their race and a whole other OCC.
So i dont end up in this case (All skills of the Tarbull + OCC/Related/Secondary skills of the Cyber-Knight)

Unless the skill selection says: "In addition to O.C.C. skills" or to similar effect, you do not get any of the R.C.C. skills when choosing an O.C.C.

[Shadowfyr]

Thank you Jedrious , this is probably the best answer that helps the most.

[Shadowfyr]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

[Jedrious]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

Not sure where the originating entry is, though you find many references to to it in D-Bees of North America (probably has something to do with the sheer concentration of races in that tome).

[dragonfett]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Sry i have to add as well, you say this like RCC and OCC are 2 seperate things, but in your signature you still have it listed that RCC=Race. Arent you just contradicting yourself then?

Actually, if you take a closer look, that is not an equal sign, but rather a Not Equal sign, as can be seen by the diagonal line through the equal sign. I can certainly understand as how you might get the two confused as it is not a symbol commonly seen, much less on a keyboard. As someone who is intimately familiar with the sign due to what I went to college for (computer programming), I had to look twice because of my laptops screen resolution made it look more like a normal equal sign.

And now that I am off of that soapbox, I can post what I have come to say. There are a number of races that get certain skills for free, regardless of what OCC they choose.

[Akashic Soldier]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

I get all my info from D-Bees of North America like Jed said.

[Shadowfyr]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

I get all my info from D-Bees of North America like Jed said.

Dang, dont own this. Maybe i can call up a friend who may tho. But thanks for at least the lead

[Nightmask]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

Palladium really hates multi-classing and even things that aren't still suffer given how they handle races in many classes so you don't find a nice neat and comprehensive way of covering things. Sometimes an RCC is immutable sometimes it's just the standard education for a particular race and they can learn a different OCC in other circumstances (much like Zentraedi have their default RCC because they're never given access to anything else but can learn an OCC given the opportunity outside that restricted educational base). Unless there's something about the race in question where some or all RCC skills would somehow be inherent to them (like the race having such mechanical aptitude that it's effectively in the blood to have basic mechanics and basic electronics) if they choose an OCC then they wouldn't get the skills from their standard RCC (although depending on backstory they probably still speak the native language of their race and probably have basic math).

[Akashic Soldier]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

I get all my info from D-Bees of North America like Jed said.

Dang, dont own this. Maybe i can call up a friend who may tho. But thanks for at least the lead

Its an awesome book worth owning, it will really add a lot to your game. Mostly useful for NPCs or the occasional ODD character but really adds an extra dimension to already existing locations on Rifts Earth by showing you how the races that live there act.

[Shadowfyr]

Does it have many of the space Dbees/aliens in it to? Cause im planning on branching out towards Phase World and further to space campaigns to just have unlimited possibilities for campaigns and locations. And since space does have many RCCs to it i just needed to see if there was something concrete/cannon to utilize as a base to start with the RCC/OCC creations since im sure my group will go apeshite crazy about the options available to them. And just needed help confirming this myself so i can be a useful GM to them. lol

[Jedrious]

Actually, every entry for an Alien in D-Bees states something to the effect of: This is an alien, not an actual D-Bee. And that ends the entry...

[drewkitty ~..~]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please don't go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesn't seem like an overload.

The reason you are confused is because PB has been mislabeling Races as RCC's.

Race=Species
A RCC is a class that is restricted to a specific race.
Yes, there are some races where every single member of the race has the RCC. (see note #1)

I will give you an example of a race and it's associated RCC. The dog boy race and the Psi hound RCC. Note that in RUE the race stats are mixed up with the Class text and the RCC is misrepresented as an OCC. Yes yes yee RUEish people I know about the style change in rue. That does not change what they are. "A Rose by any other name is still a Rose."[I think I'm quoting The Bard with that.] So go fling your venom at kevin for making the stylistic change. Not me for pointing it out how it messes the rules up.


#1: These are due to that everyone of that race is trained up the same due to that race having the same racial powers so they get the same training. In these, 1 out of 10 times occurrences, the terms Race and RCC have little to distinguish between them. Which is why for these races taking an OCC at char creation means the char does not have the racial powers nor the RCC skills.
The Klingon example, while in their culture the warrior culture is dominate, there are scientists, doctors, and other professions that klingons have. A counter example vs the klingons would be Dwarves. "Every one knows Dwarves are smiths." is as biased statement as saying "All Klingons are warriors."( see note #2)

#2 Yes, there are races that get Racial Skills. You need to read the texts of each race. In the newer books they will be misrepresented as RCC skills. How do you tell the difference? Racial skills misrepresented as RCC skills are listed near Natural Abilities, listed in paragraph form. RCC skills are listed in the Class Skills Format. If you are do not understand Class SKills Format then open up a book to a OCC and look how the skills for that OCC are arranged.
As an example but not to make a conversion but using the afore mentioned Klingons, they would have the racial skills of h2h basic and WP knife. This is not a class full of skills so not a RCC.

Actually A/S, Drew has a very good point about the books going back and forth between labeling a race a race or an rcc, sometimes even in the same book. Long story short, read the entire racial entry very carefully for each race.

Thank you Jed. I have done my reading and found +90% of what are called RCC's, are really "A Race" and "A RCC."

Final question tho. Since i couldn't find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like I've never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

What does the pronoun "this" mean in your question?
This being multi-classing? (answer: There are not any canon answers in any rifts book. (see note #3))
This being races being misrepresented as RCC's? (answer: Start reading the the races and rcc's critically and suggested before by Jed and you will start finding out which ones are which.)

I hate when pronouns are used without their subjects.

#3 To get to the published canon changing class rules you would need the PF:High Seas book. And then they only cover OCCs. Not RCC's nor PCC's nor RCC's&PCC's misrepresented as OCC's. Because there are no misrepresentations in PF for the most part. Again you nay sayers spend your venom on Kevin for the misrepresentations of style mess up the rules, not the one who is pointing them out.
#3.1 There are some optional official rules posted in the 'cutting room floor". But they so far have not been published. (*Waves hand at the venom spitters in dismissal*. Save your venom for Kevin to get the Rifts changing class rules publish. Not the one pointing out Rifts does not have any published. No, posting is not publishing.)

P.S.: Yes there are people here who do not see eye to eye with me about some things. That is why all the 'take your complaints to Kevin" mentions. I am acknowledging them and telling them where to spend their fury with me saying how things are without the "veil of style", to get the books fixed.

[Armorlord]

Long story short, read the entire racial entry very carefully for each race.

This is the correct answer.

Yep.

When it comes down to it, RCC covers a rough area of 'these are race-related things', which, as you might note from all the replies, makes it a tricky area that is best examined on a case-by-case basis.

[Nightmask]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please don't go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesn't seem like an overload.

The reason you are confused is because PB has been mislabeling Races as RCC's.

Race=Species
A RCC is a class that is restricted to a specific race.
Yes, there are some races where every single member of the race has the RCC. (see note #1)

I will give you an example of a race and it's associated RCC. The dog boy race and the Psi hound RCC. Note that in RUE the race stats are mixed up with the Class text and the RCC is misrepresented as an OCC. Yes yes yee RUEish people I know about the style change in rue. That does not change what they are. "A Rose by any other name is still a Rose."[I think I'm quoting The Bard with that.] So go fling your venom at kevin for making the stylistic change. Not me for pointing it out how it messes the rules up.


#1: These are due to that everyone of that race is trained up the same due to that race having the same racial powers so they get the same training. In these, 1 out of 10 times occurrences, the terms Race and RCC have little to distinguish between them. Which is why for these races taking an OCC at char creation means the char does not have the racial powers nor the RCC skills.
The Klingon example, while in their culture the warrior culture is dominate, there are scientists, doctors, and other professions that klingons have. A counter example vs the klingons would be Dwarves. "Every one knows Dwarves are smiths." is as biased statement as saying "All Klingons are warriors."( see note #2)

You'll have to forgive Drewkitty presenting this as if it were actually true, he seems to think a character would have to learn how to regenerate or other inherent abilities like breathing water for an amphibious race or they somehow don't exist because instead of learning how to swim they learned how to cook instead. Unless something about an RCC would give you reason to think a particular RCC special ability is trained rather than inherent to a race those racial abilities are just that, things the race has without fear of losing. Like Dog Boys and Battle Cats, they aren't going to lose those natural psionic abilities to sense supernatural creatures and magic because they became Special Forces operatives instead of Dog Boys or Battle Cats because those are natural to the races.

So races are going to have the same powers no matter what OCC they train in unless a particular racial ability is specifically a result of training (which is something I can't remember ever seeing a race that had a racial ability that requires training to exist) or a particular OCC specifically prevents it (Biomancer Elves lose their natural biomancy if they become Fire Warlocks for example).

[Balabanto]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

Palladium really hates multi-classing and even things that aren't still suffer given how they handle races in many classes so you don't find a nice neat and comprehensive way of covering things. Sometimes an RCC is immutable sometimes it's just the standard education for a particular race and they can learn a different OCC in other circumstances (much like Zentraedi have their default RCC because they're never given access to anything else but can learn an OCC given the opportunity outside that restricted educational base). Unless there's something about the race in question where some or all RCC skills would somehow be inherent to them (like the race having such mechanical aptitude that it's effectively in the blood to have basic mechanics and basic electronics) if they choose an OCC then they wouldn't get the skills from their standard RCC (although depending on backstory they probably still speak the native language of their race and probably have basic math).

That's because multi-classing breaks the game, but anyone with more than six magic tattoos becomes a tattooed man, so they have to have it. The REAL way to correct this is "No matter how hard you try, tattooed men require an elaborate ritual and you can't turn people into tattooed men. No one else can have more than six magic tattoos."

This would have been a LOT smarter, and a lot better than producing some confusing multiclassing rules that don't work so well. The REAL problem with these rules is that once you reach 15th level in anything, there's no reason not to become a tattooed man also, assuming you have the ability to do so, because the class is so heavily front-loaded.

Furthermore, the rules are so poorly written that there's nothing to prevent you from ACTIVELY MULTICLASSING OUT OF TATTOOED MAN, even though the fluff says this is more than likely impossible.

Special Forces Operative (Rifts Mercenaries) is another great example of this. Heavily front loaded, great equipment, no secondary skills going forward. Why take more than a few levels of this? Just take it and then multiclass out. One of my players did this by switching to Paratrooper after a few levels. The net benefits were ENORMOUS. Who cares over the long haul if you're about 2000 to 4000 XP behind everyone else? Once you reach about level 5, it doesn't matter, because you're going to pass people who played more powerful things like dragons.

The problem is the multiclassing rules, not RCCs. That's up to the GM. If you build a powerful combination in one of my games like that which grossly overshadows other PC's, especially ones which have been played for years, you get an experience point penalty. Life may not be fair in Rifts, but if you pick a ridiculous number of synergies to make things easier, you learn less from the same situations, because they're easier.

[Nightmask]

Final question tho. Since i couldnt find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like ive never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

Palladium really hates multi-classing and even things that aren't still suffer given how they handle races in many classes so you don't find a nice neat and comprehensive way of covering things. Sometimes an RCC is immutable sometimes it's just the standard education for a particular race and they can learn a different OCC in other circumstances (much like Zentraedi have their default RCC because they're never given access to anything else but can learn an OCC given the opportunity outside that restricted educational base). Unless there's something about the race in question where some or all RCC skills would somehow be inherent to them (like the race having such mechanical aptitude that it's effectively in the blood to have basic mechanics and basic electronics) if they choose an OCC then they wouldn't get the skills from their standard RCC (although depending on backstory they probably still speak the native language of their race and probably have basic math).

That's because multi-classing breaks the game, but anyone with more than six magic tattoos becomes a tattooed man, so they have to have it. The REAL way to correct this is "No matter how hard you try, tattooed men require an elaborate ritual and you can't turn people into tattooed men. No one else can have more than six magic tattoos."

This would have been a LOT smarter, and a lot better than producing some confusing multiclassing rules that don't work so well. The REAL problem with these rules is that once you reach 15th level in anything, there's no reason not to become a tattooed man also, assuming you have the ability to do so, because the class is so heavily front-loaded.

Furthermore, the rules are so poorly written that there's nothing to prevent you from ACTIVELY MULTICLASSING OUT OF TATTOOED MAN, even though the fluff says this is more than likely impossible.

Special Forces Operative (Rifts Mercenaries) is another great example of this. Heavily front loaded, great equipment, no secondary skills going forward. Why take more than a few levels of this? Just take it and then multiclass out. One of my players did this by switching to Paratrooper after a few levels. The net benefits were ENORMOUS. Who cares over the long haul if you're about 2000 to 4000 XP behind everyone else? Once you reach about level 5, it doesn't matter, because you're going to pass people who played more powerful things like dragons.

The problem is the multiclassing rules, not RCCs. That's up to the GM. If you build a powerful combination in one of my games like that which grossly overshadows other PC's, especially ones which have been played for years, you get an experience point penalty. Life may not be fair in Rifts, but if you pick a ridiculous number of synergies to make things easier, you learn less from the same situations, because they're easier.

I don't see multi-classing as anything game-breaking. Some combinations might cause trouble for some games but it's not an inherent problem with multi-classing.

Meanwhile a good reason why you don't take a class like the Special Forces OCC and promptly switch to another is that all those skills end up locked at low levels, and even a character with a 30 IQ isn't going to have the most favorable of percentages. You'd need to be at least mid-level for the percentages to be worthwhile, same applies to WP and HtH. Whatever class you switched to you'd have to use up the same number of skills to re-select all the WP and other skills you want to keep advancing in for the new OCC so either you have to not care about how you've trapped yourself at low usefulness on those skills or pick another OCC that so outshines the current one that it doesn't matter having all those skills locked at just 1st to 3rd level.

It would help if Palladium didn't confuse by having the RCC label applying to things that are very far apart. To some it applies to a skill set that because of the race's nature they all naturally develop that way (racial memory perhaps, like dragons), to others it just reflects the most common OCC for that race (like Dog Boys or Battle Cats) with the race's natural abilities shown in as they try to save space and mash it all together. So a Godling might initially limited to the Godling RCC until encountering other OCC, meanwhile a Battle Cat born free of the CS might forgo the Battle Cat RCC skills for becoming a Ley Line Walker instead.

[drewkitty ~..~]

You'll have to forgive Drewkitty presenting this as if it were actually true, he seems to think a character would have to learn how to regenerate or other inherent abilities like breathing water for an amphibious race or they somehow don't exist because instead of learning how to swim they learned how to cook instead.

Ha ha ha real funny NM. Thank you for that total misrepresentation of what I said with those totally illrelevent examples.

Like Dog Boys and Battle Cats, they aren't going to lose those natural psionic abilities to sense supernatural creatures and magic because they became Special Forces operatives instead of Dog Boys or Battle Cats because those are natural to the races.

Again NM has totally missing what I said. Using the examples of Dog boys and Battle Cats. It would be the lack of psi powers that would get them trained as Special Forces, instead of just going through the normal training program, and being trained as a Psi hound. If you can not see the cause and effect in the example I just gave, then you totally do not understand what I said. Thus, since until you do understand what I said, you should refrain from commenting in this again.

To put it another way: (when talking about when the RCC is Mandatory for that race) It was not the choice of the char not have the mediatory RCC that causes the char not to have the racial powers, it was that powers NOT BEING THERE that was the reason the char was trained in something other then the mandatory RCC.

Does a human need to be trained to walk? Yes. However such training is called 'growing up'.
When does training start? The moment the child is aware of it's surroundings.

I was very specific about which type of RCC I was talking about. You might want to do some reading so you will be able to sort out which of the so called RCC's are really 'a race' and an Racially (restricted) Char Class", and a Race that is limited to it's RCC.

So races are going to have the same powers no matter what OCC they train in unless a particular racial ability is specifically a result of training (which is something I can't remember ever seeing a race that had a racial ability that requires training to exist)

The reason no training are mentioned is by the time the char is made they have gone through the training to control their powers.
Because you are not integrating everything, just looking at the race's text, so you are not understanding things. That is the obnoxious thing about your arguments. Because when people only look at the race your arguments seam correct.

[Akashic Soldier]

That's because multi-classing breaks the game, but anyone with more than six magic tattoos becomes a tattooed man, so they have to have it. The REAL way to correct this is "No matter how hard you try, tattooed men require an elaborate ritual and you can't turn people into tattooed men. No one else can have more than six magic tattoos."

I am just being a little ***** here but there is no multi-classing in Palladium but there are rules for changing your O.C.C.

From a practical point of view the dual classing rules are not like other games. First you can only dual class when you reach a new level (level three or higher if you are a practitioner of magic) and then when you select your new class you must "level" to the first level by earning the experience needed to obtain level two in that class.

For instance:

A 2nd Level Ley Line Walker needs to hide from the CS bloodhounds who keep tracking him down so should he survive to 3rd level he can then choose to dual class into Vagabond (with storyteller discretion and should circumstances warrant the change--becoming a new O.C.C. means you'll need to find someone to teach you how to come that new O.C.C. most of the time). So now our Ley Line Walker friend is a: Level 3 Ley Line Walker and a Level 0 Vagabond. While he is a level 0 Vagabond he has none of the skills or abilities of a Vagabond and his LLW skills are frozen. When he has gained enough experience to become a 2nd level Vagabond is then a: 3rd Level Ley Line Walker and 1st Level Vagabond. His LLW skills do not advance but he receives the O.C.C. Skills of the Vagabond and may now use its class features.

Now, the thing to remember is that he has an entire level (Normally a minimum of around 2,000 experience points) where he is effectively not earning experience while the other player characters are and if your GM is following the experience point table strictly that can take sometime. In the meanwhile other players are continuing to advance and their Hand to Hand skill increases. This means that mechanically, a dual classed character is generally giving up combat ability and potential to become more skilled or explore a new direction in his life.

In short, changing O.C.C. is not without its costs. I can recognize how people will easily mistake it as a quick way to power-up your character or make other Players irrelevant but beyond the face value mechanics there are situational and setting conditions that prevent most players freely hoping from O.C.C. to O.C.C. and in the cases of Practitioners of Magic they are generally going to have a less impressive selection of spells than another character who was a dedicated Practitioner of Magic because they will not be receiving the "free" higher level spells from leveling. The exception is another O.C.C. becoming a Practitioner of Magic of course, but again this is easier said than done and Game Masers should remember that the most powerful and versatile spell caster has access to 1st-4th level invocations at 1st level and though he can learn higher level spells immediately within the game than he is going to be two or three steps behind the player (or NPC) that has been a Practitioner of Magic since the first Game Session.

Which brings me to Crazie's, Juicers, Tattoo Magic, Cyborgs and City Rats. Poor unfortunate souls (in most cases) that have become so changed they cannot go back. These O.C.C. follow their own rules (Bionics Source Book). Of course once a City Rat has outgrown his O.C.C. he is no longer bound by this and can change O.C.C's as many times as he or the Game Master sees fit. However, for people who are "Augmented" by M.O.M. technology or Juiced or enslaved or tattooed with three or more tattoos or have more than 75% of their body replaced with cybernetics become Crazies or Juicers or Tattoo men or Partial or Full Conversion Cyborgs and are then (in my humble opinion) locked in that O.C.C. because anyone who changed to another O.C.C. would by default be subject to the forced O.C.C. changes that had made them a Tattoo Man or 'Borg in the first place. Effectively, making them a prisoner of their O.C.C.

I know not all Game Masters run this way but I THINK that it is handled like this for a wide variety of reasons but primarily game balance (don't make that face). 'Borgs, Tattoomen, Juicers and Crazies are things you become. None of them are particularly favorable lives but they are rather powerful and attractive to players attempting to power-up their characters. For this reason these means are available to players, but there is a risk involved. Become to deep in them and you will lose yourself and there is no return.

Among other things I have been working on a Rifter article about the "rules" for people who are unwillingly implanted with M.O.M. Technology or Juiced. To summarize the article "becoming a Crazie" or a "Juicer" O.C.C. means that you have dedicated yourself (at least in some capacity) to taking advantage of your augmentations and learning and controlling the changes made to your mind and body. A non-Crazie or Juicer who is augmented by either of these processes receives a portion of the augmentation benefit but suffers more severe deterioration until they choose to give up their old life and become the appropriate O.C.C. or of course risk surgery and detox (both of which are often fatal).

In this article I explore the idea that there is a training period for these O.C.C's (as is implied) and include a physical therapy skill to help increase Mental Endurance. I hope that people will find it useful.

[Nightmask]

You'll have to forgive Drewkitty presenting this as if it were actually true, he seems to think a character would have to learn how to regenerate or other inherent abilities like breathing water for an amphibious race or they somehow don't exist because instead of learning how to swim they learned how to cook instead.

Ha ha ha real funny NM. Thank you for that total misrepresentation of what I said with those totally illrelevent examples.

No misrepresentation involved since you insist a character with a racial RCC doesn't get any if their racial abilities and is no different than any human around, which is obviously wrong. A Dog Boy by your standards would 'forget' how to have claws, have sharp teeth to bite with, or have an enhanced ability to smell because he was trained as a Special Forces character. This in spite of the fact that that's clearly contrary to common sense and the books themselves.

Like Dog Boys and Battle Cats, they aren't going to lose those natural psionic abilities to sense supernatural creatures and magic because they became Special Forces operatives instead of Dog Boys or Battle Cats because those are natural to the races.

Again NM has totally missing what I said. Using the examples of Dog boys and Battle Cats. It would be the lack of psi powers that would get them trained as Special Forces, instead of just going through the normal training program, and being trained as a Psi hound. If you can not see the cause and effect in the example I just gave, then you totally do not understand what I said. Thus, since until you do understand what I said, you should refrain from commenting in this again.

To put it another way: (when talking about when the RCC is Mandatory for that race) It was not the choice of the char not have the mediatory RCC that causes the char not to have the racial powers, it was that powers NOT BEING THERE that was the reason the char was trained in something other then the mandatory RCC.

Does a human need to be trained to walk? Yes. However such training is called 'growing up'.
When does training start? The moment the child is aware of it's surroundings.

I was very specific about which type of RCC I was talking about. You might want to do some reading so you will be able to sort out which of the so called RCC's are really 'a race' and an Racially (restricted) Char Class", and a Race that is limited to it's RCC.

You're pushing a house rule there of yours as if it were what's written in the books which obviously isn't true. None of the entries for Dog Boys OR Battle Cats even remotely hint at the idea that they're gaining a different OCC because they don't have their psi-abilities or natural animal abilities. The fact you can't tell the natural powers of the character apart from things that are skills and trained is obviously part of the problem here. You think that as in this example the Dog Boys psi-powers are a result of training which isn't so, we know that they're genetically engineered to have those natural abilities and as we've seen from some of the optional Dog Boy classes that the only thing that changes is the skill packages available, the natural abilities like psionics remain fully intact.

So races are going to have the same powers no matter what OCC they train in unless a particular racial ability is specifically a result of training (which is something I can't remember ever seeing a race that had a racial ability that requires training to exist)

The reason no training are mentioned is by the time the char is made they have gone through the training to control their powers.
Because you are not integrating everything, just looking at the race's text, so you are not understanding things. That is the obnoxious thing about your arguments. Because when people only look at the race your arguments seam correct.

I understand things quite fine and am more than capable of integrating things successfully. I imagine what makes you feel my arguments obnoxious is because they disprove your points and other people disagree with your efforts to put your house rules out as canon book material when they aren't. There is nothing in the books that agrees with how you insist RCC are or how one can choose a different OCC than the default. Nothing that outright states or even implies that an RCC deciding on a different OCC magically 'forgets' those inherent abilities given for its race or that those inherent abilities aren't actually inherent and are a result of training to be one instead. The closest you get is in the Battle Cat entry where it notes choosing a different OCC may result in losing some of the natural Battle Cat skills NOT that they lose their natural animal abilities or psionics. Skills as in what you select from the skills list, detecting supernatural creatures and hearing really good aren't skills they're natural abilities.

[drewkitty ~..~]

since you insist a character with a racial RCC doesn't get any if their racial abilities and is no different than any human around, which is obviously wrong.

As you have written this sentence, you have no idea What I said. I can tell because what you are saying that I said and what I said are two different things.
This is partly due to you not saying which type of RCC you are talking about. Yes, there are a couple types of RCC's. Ones where the class is restricted to a singular race, and the other where a race is restricted to a singular RCC.
Another is that in your simplification of what was being said, you inverted the meaning because you leave out too many details.

You're pushing a house rule there of yours as if it were what's written in the books which obviously isn't true. None of the entries for Dog Boys OR Battle Cats even remotely hint at the idea that they're gaining a different OCC because they don't have their psi-abilities or natural animal abilities.....

And you are pushing your house rule that races that have restrictive RCC (RCCs where every bleeding member of the race has to have that RCC.) can just not have the RCC with any penalty.
As per canon CS dogboys can only have the psi hound RCC. (Inside the CS the dogboy RCC is a restrictive RCC.) Everyone of them has to have the Psi Hound class.
To be any other class the dog boy has to have been born "feral". Because they are outside the CS they can't have the Psi hound RCC.
No, according to the published changing class rules (which you would have to go outside of Rifts Canon to get) nether RCC not PCCs, (Oh my the psi hound class Meets the criteria for both a PCC AND RCC.) because they only deal with OCC's. So even deserter psi-hounds can not get a new class. And don't give me that bull about psi hounds class being a occ. The Heading for the section that psi hound class is found is "Psychic Char Classes". If you want to go bother someone about this take your annoyance out on kevin it is his "style' that is causing that particular nonsense. It is he and the other writers that have misused his labeling system for all these years. And it is Kevin's fault for letting it happen by not doing his "job" as "Editor."

The only way that I have found out to let a char with a restrictive RCC to have a different class "at char creation" is to go out side the rules. But that also means that the char looses what makes that race have to have that RCC, their racial powers.

As to which Races have Restrictive RCC's? Easy, they have the races attribute stats listed in the Class section of the text is a sign that the race has a restrictive RCC.

Oh my word.... RUE Dogboys have their attribute stats listed in the class section of the text. oh well

[Nightmask]

since you insist a character with a racial RCC doesn't get any if their racial abilities and is no different than any human around, which is obviously wrong.

As you have written this sentence, you have no idea What I said. I can tell because what you are saying that I said and what I said are two different things.
This is partly due to you not saying which type of RCC you are talking about. Yes, there are a couple types of RCC's. Ones where the class is restricted to a singular race, and the other where it restricts that race to that RCC.

Sorry but anyone reading your posts can see that you've been the one simply stating 'If you choose an OCC you lose all your RCC abilities', not I. So the one not making a distinction has been yourself, myself and others have been the ones acknowledging that RCC are confusing because how they're used for some races as simply a race-specific OCC and others more of a locked in range of skills without option of learning other OCC.

You're pushing a house rule there of yours as if it were what's written in the books which obviously isn't true. None of the entries for Dog Boys OR Battle Cats even remotely hint at the idea that they're gaining a different OCC because they don't have their psi-abilities or natural animal abilities.....

And you are pushing your house rule that races that have restrictive RCC (RCCs where every bleeding member of the race has to have that RCC.) can just not have the RCC with any penalty.

No, I've said nothing of the sort. I've made no claims that a member of a race where the RCC encompasses the entire race and is hard-wired into them can choose to have other OCC or abandon it without problems.

As per canon CS dogboys can only have the psi hound RCC. (Inside the CS the dogboy RCC is a restrictive RCC.) Everyone of them has to have the Psi Hound class.
To be any other class the dog boy has to have been born "feral". Because they are outside the CS they can't have the Psi hound RCC.

Sorry but that's dead wrong. If you read the material in Lone Star you'd see it states that often the feral Dog Boys and Battle Cats end up with the same skill selections and OCC as the CS's non-feral ones. That's your house rule and it's completely contrary to what's in the actual books, which also show several other specialized Dog Boy training packages which are quite clear that the Dog Boy still has the same natural abilities as the standard education package.

No, according to the published changing class rules nether RCC not PCCs, ho my the psi hound class Meets the criteria for both a PCC AND RCC, because they only deal OCC's. So even deserter psi-hounds can not get a new class. And don't give me that bull about psi hounds class being a occ. The Heading for the section that psi hound class is found is "Psychic Char Classes". If you want to go bother someone about this take your annoyance out on kevin to get the "style' out of Rifts char classes. It is he and the other writers that have misused his labeling system for all these years. And Kevin let it happen by not doing his job as editor.

I'd be happier if you didn't take your annoyances out on everyone on the forums, tossing out these claims of yours that are in direct contradiction to the actual books as being what's actually written when it's completely wrong. All you have to do is look under Feral Offspring on page 39 where it notes what OCC a Free Born typically goes with and that 50% of them end up taking the same fundamental skill selections as a regular CS Dog Boy. It's also clear that they have the same basic stats as a standard Dog Boy including the psionic powers, which is understandable since the powers are inherent to the race and aren't something you train to have you just do.

The only way that I have found out to let a char with a restrictive RCC to have a different class "at char creation" is to go out side the rules. But that also means that the char looses what makes that race have to have that RCC, their racial powers.

As to which Races have Restrictive RCC's? Easy, they have the races attribute stats listed in the Class section of the text is sign that the race has a restrictive RCC.

Oh my word.... RUE Dogboys have their attribute stats listed in the class section of the text. oh well

Well it's obvious you can't tell the difference between education and what's natural when you think how well someone hears or smells is part of their education so they'd be deaf, dumb, and blind because they were educated as a scholar instead of a mercenary. Which must be why you think the narrow training that the CS forces onto Dog Boys is a racial restriction and not an environmental restriction or that they'd end up just furry humans if one's trained as a Special Forces operative instead of a standard dog boy. Which would contradict the fact of the other Dog Boy specialized OCC like the Dog Boy Special Forces and K-9 'Sniffers' explicitly noting they have all the natural powers/abilities of the standard Dog Boy.

If you want to insist that a Dog Boy loses its enhanced sense of smell and its claws because it got trained in an OCC other than being CS Dog Boy and didn't learn how to smell or have claws go right ahead in your game. Sure it makes absolutely no sense to anyone but you but you're free to do that in your game, but please don't go try pushing the idea that anyone at Palladium actually thinks like that or would believe a being would lose its basic racial attributes like enhanced senses when it simply went and got a different educational background which had nothing to do with it having super-hearing from birth like every other member of its race.

[Giant2005]

Debates like this come up all the time.
No-one is right because there is no canon way to determine what constitutes a learned ability and what constitutes a natural ability in a RCC's description.
You can't make any broad statements and expect it to cover all RCC's accurately, you need to judge every ability on every RCC individually.

A lot of abilities are obviously natural but a lot more are also obviously learned. When this topic has been brought up in the past, people tend to take each stance to the extreme: they either consider everything learned or consider everything innate. It is more accurate to take the middle ground approach. For example, the last time I recall this debate coming up was in reference to the Amazon RCC. The two opposing sides declared that either the Amazon kept all abilities or none. I prefer to take the more rational approach and give them the natural abilities but the learned Psionic and/or magic abilities are lost. Well that isn't quite true - I prefer to keep them as an RCC and choose some other race to go with my OCC but if I had to convert it, that is what I would do.

[Dr. Doom III]

Debates like this come up all the time.
No-one is right

Doom is.

[Giant2005]

Debates like this come up all the time.
No-one is right

Doom is.

I apologize, I assumed the right-ness of Doom was a given and didn't need mentioned.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Debates like this come up all the time.
No-one is right

Doom is.

I apologize, I assumed the right-ness of Doom was a given and didn't need mentioned.

Doom did not say he was right so there is no need to apologize.

He just said "Doom is."

It can be confusing when taking in context.

Besides he has not posted anything here other then "doom is" and the only thing correct about that is that he still exists.

[Akashic Soldier]

He just said "Doom is."

It can be confusing when taking in context.

Besides he has not posted anything here other then "doom is" and the only thing correct about that is that he still exists.

*shoots himself in the head with a 45*

[Shadowfyr]

Debates like this come up all the time.
No-one is right

Doom is.

First i have to point this out. YAY i got Doom to visit a thread of mine! lol.

This amuses me cause of some of the long "debates" you had with my old gm/friend Temporalmage. lol

[Shadowfyr]

Okay this is one thing i cant seem to find, since i normally play humans.

But when a player chooses an R.C.C. and the O.C.C that why want to play it as how are the skills chosen?
Do you get all the skills the RCC starts with plus OCC/Related/Secondary of the OCC?

My brother assures me its that but i just want to confirm for sure since it can be a lot of skills since this is a new thing to me.

And also can y'all point me to the book its in to so i can refer to it in the future (or in my group lol)

Thx!

You can not have an RCC and a OCC, by PB rules you can not proceed in two classes at one time.
If you meant to choose a Race and a OCC, then you should of said that.

Yes, some racial skills are misrepresented as RCC skills.

Confused me for a moment, I thought RCC was called (Racial, Character, Class) or just a longer terminology for saying race?

But yes plan on using the Tarbull as the race and a cyber-knight for OCC (please don't go into the technicalities of the 2 together)
And just trying to figure out which skills are being taken so it doesn't seem like an overload.

The reason you are confused is because PB has been mislabeling Races as RCC's.

Race=Species
A RCC is a class that is restricted to a specific race.
Yes, there are some races where every single member of the race has the RCC. (see note #1)

I will give you an example of a race and it's associated RCC. The dog boy race and the Psi hound RCC. Note that in RUE the race stats are mixed up with the Class text and the RCC is misrepresented as an OCC. Yes yes yee RUEish people I know about the style change in rue. That does not change what they are. "A Rose by any other name is still a Rose."[I think I'm quoting The Bard with that.] So go fling your venom at kevin for making the stylistic change. Not me for pointing it out how it messes the rules up.


#1: These are due to that everyone of that race is trained up the same due to that race having the same racial powers so they get the same training. In these, 1 out of 10 times occurrences, the terms Race and RCC have little to distinguish between them. Which is why for these races taking an OCC at char creation means the char does not have the racial powers nor the RCC skills.
The Klingon example, while in their culture the warrior culture is dominate, there are scientists, doctors, and other professions that klingons have. A counter example vs the klingons would be Dwarves. "Every one knows Dwarves are smiths." is as biased statement as saying "All Klingons are warriors."( see note #2)

#2 Yes, there are races that get Racial Skills. You need to read the texts of each race. In the newer books they will be misrepresented as RCC skills. How do you tell the difference? Racial skills misrepresented as RCC skills are listed near Natural Abilities, listed in paragraph form. RCC skills are listed in the Class Skills Format. If you are do not understand Class SKills Format then open up a book to a OCC and look how the skills for that OCC are arranged.
As an example but not to make a conversion but using the afore mentioned Klingons, they would have the racial skills of h2h basic and WP knife. This is not a class full of skills so not a RCC.

Actually A/S, Drew has a very good point about the books going back and forth between labeling a race a race or an rcc, sometimes even in the same book. Long story short, read the entire racial entry very carefully for each race.

Thank you Jed. I have done my reading and found +90% of what are called RCC's, are really "A Race" and "A RCC."

Final question tho. Since i couldn't find it in the RUE, but which book as the most information about this though? Like I've never seen that line anywhere in my readings.

What does the pronoun "this" mean in your question?
This being multi-classing? (answer: There are not any canon answers in any rifts book. (see note #3))
This being races being misrepresented as RCC's? (answer: Start reading the the races and rcc's critically and suggested before by Jed and you will start finding out which ones are which.)

I hate when pronouns are used without their subjects.

#3 To get to the published canon changing class rules you would need the PF:High Seas book. And then they only cover OCCs. Not RCC's nor PCC's nor RCC's&PCC's misrepresented as OCC's. Because there are no misrepresentations in PF for the most part. Again you nay sayers spend your venom on Kevin for the misrepresentations of style mess up the rules, not the one who is pointing them out.
#3.1 There are some optional official rules posted in the 'cutting room floor". But they so far have not been published. (*Waves hand at the venom spitters in dismissal*. Save your venom for Kevin to get the Rifts changing class rules publish. Not the one pointing out Rifts does not have any published. No, posting is not publishing.)

P.S.: Yes there are people here who do not see eye to eye with me about some things. That is why all the 'take your complaints to Kevin" mentions. I am acknowledging them and telling them where to spend their fury with me saying how things are without the "veil of style", to get the books fixed.

I think i get what you say. And yes i've noticed from scrolling through the books touching the Rifts universe everything has become a PCC or RCC and not a direct race.

But from my understanding it seems you just have to mull through the RCC itself to separate what would essentially be the Race from the RCC part of the same thing. Natural Abilities i see would probably be the only thing the character can have per their race, but the skill selection would be entirely up to the OCC chosen.


To everyone else who seem to be misinterpreting me im not trying to "multi-class" i want to use an RCC as a RACE, the physical appearance with natural abilities, while being the selected OCC. Thats all.

I understand theres no Cannon material for this now, and it'd be something nice to convince Kevin to help us point out.
And also Drewkitty when i had typed that question that utilized the word "this" as the subjective pronoun i referred to the thread topic itself since we were all posting here is all. Not trying to be an A-Hole. Just a person looking for helpful answers.

[Nightmask]

I think i get what you say. And yes i've noticed from scrolling through the books touching the Rifts universe everything has become a PCC or RCC and not a direct race.

But from my understanding it seems you just have to mull through the RCC itself to separate what would essentially be the Race from the RCC part of the same thing. Natural Abilities i see would probably be the only thing the character can have per their race, but the skill selection would be entirely up to the OCC chosen.


To everyone else who seem to be misinterpreting me im not trying to "multi-class" i want to use an RCC as a RACE, the physical appearance with natural abilities, while being the selected OCC. Thats all.

I understand theres no Cannon material for this now, and it'd be something nice to convince Kevin to help us point out.
And also Drewkitty when i had typed that question that utilized the word "this" as the subjective pronoun i referred to the thread topic itself since we were all posting here is all. Not trying to be an A-Hole. Just a person looking for helpful answers.

I think you're hitting the main problem, people not seeing it as an effort to separate the race out and what OCC it can have like any other race (Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc) and make it out as some idea to try and supercharge your PC or over-inflate it. Because the race wasn't shown as just a race and only a particular type was shown and called an RCC some get locked in that it's all they can be and that somehow their racial abilities aren't actually racial abilities and are all training instead.

[Dr. Doom III]

I think you're hitting the main problem, people not seeing it as an effort to separate the race out and what OCC it can have like any other race (Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc) and make it out as some idea to try and supercharge your PC or over-inflate it. Because the race wasn't shown as just a race and only a particular type was shown and called an RCC some get locked in that it's all they can be and that somehow their racial abilities aren't actually racial abilities and are all training instead.

Most of the time it is all they can be.

[Nightmask]

I think you're hitting the main problem, people not seeing it as an effort to separate the race out and what OCC it can have like any other race (Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc) and make it out as some idea to try and supercharge your PC or over-inflate it. Because the race wasn't shown as just a race and only a particular type was shown and called an RCC some get locked in that it's all they can be and that somehow their racial abilities aren't actually racial abilities and are all training instead.

Most of the time it is all they can be.

That's a bit much to insist that most of the time it's all they can be, when most of the time races are tossed out in a compressed format to save on space so we're simply given a 'this is what the average member of this race learns' or 'the most commonly encountered member of the race knows this' OCC that's called an RCC because people not of that race don't have that educational background to follow that skill learning package. If the scientists of a race almost never leave their planet only the warriors do for space-saving purposes you might see an RPG just list the warrior load-out for example.

[Akashic Soldier]

I think you're hitting the main problem, people not seeing it as an effort to separate the race out and what OCC it can have like any other race (Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc) and make it out as some idea to try and supercharge your PC or over-inflate it. Because the race wasn't shown as just a race and only a particular type was shown and called an RCC some get locked in that it's all they can be and that somehow their racial abilities aren't actually racial abilities and are all training instead.

Most of the time it is all they can be.

That's a bit much to insist that most of the time it's all they can be, when most of the time races are tossed out in a compressed format to save on space so we're simply given a 'this is what the average member of this race learns' or 'the most commonly encountered member of the race knows this' OCC that's called an RCC because people not of that race don't have that educational background to follow that skill learning package. If the scientists of a race almost never leave their planet only the warriors do for space-saving purposes you might see an RPG just list the warrior load-out for example.

I think its safe to say if that was the case it would list it. So to sum it up, Doom and I are right. R.C.C.'s are all the race CAN be. Some races cannot have functioning societies as we understand them because they're aliens.

[Nightmask]

I think you're hitting the main problem, people not seeing it as an effort to separate the race out and what OCC it can have like any other race (Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc) and make it out as some idea to try and supercharge your PC or over-inflate it. Because the race wasn't shown as just a race and only a particular type was shown and called an RCC some get locked in that it's all they can be and that somehow their racial abilities aren't actually racial abilities and are all training instead.

Most of the time it is all they can be.

That's a bit much to insist that most of the time it's all they can be, when most of the time races are tossed out in a compressed format to save on space so we're simply given a 'this is what the average member of this race learns' or 'the most commonly encountered member of the race knows this' OCC that's called an RCC because people not of that race don't have that educational background to follow that skill learning package. If the scientists of a race almost never leave their planet only the warriors do for space-saving purposes you might see an RPG just list the warrior load-out for example.

I think its safe to say if that was the case it would list it. So to sum it up, Doom and I are right. R.C.C.'s are all the race CAN be. Some races cannot have functioning societies as we understand them because they're aliens.

That's not safe to say, which would make you wrong in claiming that. There are obvious examples of something called an RCC (the hotly argued Dog Boy Psi-Hound for example) which is later shown quite clearly to just be a Dog Boy specific OCC and that they're quite capable of learning other OCC given the opportunity. So it's obviously wrong to declare that an RCC is the only OCC available to a race. You're simply assuming something not supported by the material, something that can be shown to be explainable by other more likely reasons as I already point out. If you'd like to go on being wrong insisting RCC are all a race can be go right ahead though, it's a free country and you're free to be wrong as much as you'd like to be.

[Dr. Doom III]

That's a bit much to insist that most of the time it's all they can be, when most of the time races are tossed out in a compressed format to save on space so we're simply given a 'this is what the average member of this race learns' or 'the most commonly encountered member of the race knows this' OCC that's called an RCC because people not of that race don't have that educational background to follow that skill learning package. If the scientists of a race almost never leave their planet only the warriors do for space-saving purposes you might see an RPG just list the warrior load-out for example.

Races are races and racial character classes are character classes. Two completely different things.

[Dr. Doom III]

That's not safe to say, which would make you wrong in claiming that. There are obvious examples of something called an RCC (the hotly argued Dog Boy Psi-Hound for example) which is later shown quite clearly to just be a Dog Boy specific OCC and that they're quite capable of learning other OCC given the opportunity. So it's obviously wrong to declare that an RCC is the only OCC available to a race. You're simply assuming something not supported by the material, something that can be shown to be explainable by other more likely reasons as I already point out. If you'd like to go on being wrong insisting RCC are all a race can be go right ahead though, it's a free country and you're free to be wrong as much as you'd like to be.

Those are called exceptions. You don't have exceptions unless there's a rule.
The rule being that an RCC can only be that RCC unless a choice of OCCs are available.

[Akashic Soldier]

That's not safe to say, which would make you wrong in claiming that. There are obvious examples of something called an RCC (the hotly argued Dog Boy Psi-Hound for example) which is later shown quite clearly to just be a Dog Boy specific OCC and that they're quite capable of learning other OCC given the opportunity. So it's obviously wrong to declare that an RCC is the only OCC available to a race. You're simply assuming something not supported by the material, something that can be shown to be explainable by other more likely reasons as I already point out. If you'd like to go on being wrong insisting RCC are all a race can be go right ahead though, it's a free country and you're free to be wrong as much as you'd like to be.

Dogboys are a Race, Psihound is a Dogboy specific O.C.C. (meaning it is an R.C.C.), Dogboys were genetically genetically--engineered for a specific purpose. What is so difficult to understand?

Stop for a minute and look at the content and the situation instead of trying to apply sweeping absolutes, that isn't how Palladium works--that isn't how life works. If Psi-Hound does not conform to the standard structure ask yourself WHY and look at the facts. The fact is that Psi-Hounds are a a type of Dogboy that is conditioned to be a Psi-Hound. It is that simple. They were unnaturally engineered by men to fulfill a specific purpose and role within their species, thus becoming an R.C.C.

[Deleted]

I had written a few paragraphs but I realized there is no point. As you have said you're free to misinterpret it and be wrong or you could consider all the information and use common sense. Something a lot of people on this forum need a lot more of in my honest opinion. Just because something is not explicitly explained with hard rules does not make it untrue. Nowhere does it say that gravity keeps us anchored to the planet or the sky is blue. By your logic we could fall into the sky or the sky could be green. You're not thinking this through, you're thinking critically and AT the problem instead of taking a step back and making a context-based observation.

Writing is an art, we forget that too quickly. Each of those books sitting in front of you is an attempt to convey an idea. You may be able to dream up several ideas from it that were not intended, in the case of role playing games that inspiration is the point. However, expecting a writer to waste (or an editor to permit) precious space to be wasted on explaining rational on trivial matters like this is just unrealistic. The difference between O.C.C. and R.C.C. is clearly explained. Instead of slamming something with a hammer and saying "it doesn't fit" take a step back and look at it and make sense of it.

In Rifts every Fingletooth Carpetbagger is going to be interested in business, profit and cutting corners. They do not have a culture with Ley Line Walkers or Mind Melters. That isn't what they are. Now, we look at the Dirari Ecto-men, they are mostly criminals but it specifically says that this is because the criminals flee to our dimension. It does not mean they are a race of criminals.

The Psi-Hound is a specialized Dogboy, like the Outback Phreaker it is a type of mutant deviation that is what it is, they're a separate cast. Psi-Hounds are always Psi-Hounds and act and think like Psi-Hounds. A non-Psi-Hound Dogboy can change O.C.C. and adapt to different styles of life but the Psi-Hound is BRED, genetically modified, to do a specific thing. Yes, all Dogboys are made this way but the Psi-Hound has awakened that potential and been irrevocably transformed mentally into biological weapon designed to detect, locate and destroy supernatural entities. That is what he is now, he can never be anything else.

You can ignore this, disregard it and say "wrong, wrong, wrong" all you like but just make sure that you're doing so because you are preventing yourself from processing all the information within context rather than a failing of system. You are given an apple to eat, looking at it and then demanding to know why it was cut in half without considering that the person handing it to you may have thought two halves would be easier for you eat. If something doesn't make sense immediately look at all the information in context.

[Nightmask]

That's a bit much to insist that most of the time it's all they can be, when most of the time races are tossed out in a compressed format to save on space so we're simply given a 'this is what the average member of this race learns' or 'the most commonly encountered member of the race knows this' OCC that's called an RCC because people not of that race don't have that educational background to follow that skill learning package. If the scientists of a race almost never leave their planet only the warriors do for space-saving purposes you might see an RPG just list the warrior load-out for example.

Races are races and racial character classes are character classes. Two completely different things.

Yes, one is a character class that a particular race has available to it that others don't, and while a class might be restricted to a race that doesn't mean the race is restricted to that class.

[Nightmask]

That's not safe to say, which would make you wrong in claiming that. There are obvious examples of something called an RCC (the hotly argued Dog Boy Psi-Hound for example) which is later shown quite clearly to just be a Dog Boy specific OCC and that they're quite capable of learning other OCC given the opportunity. So it's obviously wrong to declare that an RCC is the only OCC available to a race. You're simply assuming something not supported by the material, something that can be shown to be explainable by other more likely reasons as I already point out. If you'd like to go on being wrong insisting RCC are all a race can be go right ahead though, it's a free country and you're free to be wrong as much as you'd like to be.

Those are called exceptions. You don't have exceptions unless there's a rule.
The rule being that an RCC can only be that RCC unless a choice of OCCs are available.

That however isn't the rule, because RCC aren't used just to mean it's the only thing a particular race can learn, they're used to simply mean 'a character class only available to this particular race'.