Do the Splugorth Sell Magic Tattoos?

[Giant2005]

As per the title.
The way I see it, if they do sell tattoos, they seem to be incredibly cheap.
A basic T-Man requires a minimum of 6 years training and feeding and comes with 12 tattoos.
On the slave market that T-Man costs between 100,000 - 300,000 credits to buy.
Assuming his value as a human is 0 and the time training and feeding him over 6 years is also 0, the average cost of each of those 12 tattoos is between 8,333 - 25,000 credits.

Would you allow a PC to buy tattoos at that rate?
From the Splugorth's point of view, I can't imagine why they wouldn't. They gain the same cashflow but reduce their expenses by not having to procure a slave and keep it alive for 6 years.
If it is the simple fact that they would prefer a lump sum payment of 300,000 and not waste their time with smaller, individual sales, that could easily be avoided by some kind of contract that obliges the recipient to pay 100,000 - 300,000 up front and then come back every 6 months for his pre-paid tattoos.

[Giant2005]

Actually, after looking into this a little more, does the 2 tattoos every 6 months limitation even exist?
T-Monster Men, T-Archer and Chiang Ku don't seem to have such limitations.
The Sunaj are more limited than normal and can only receive one new tattoo every 6 months.
Every other Tattoo OCC are limited to 2 tattoos every 6 months.

The variety in those limitations suggests that the limitation isn't actually physical. If that is the case, making a T-man may not take a minimum of 6 years and that part of the cost can be ignored.
But selling the tattoos separately still cuts out the cost of the slave.

[Dr. Doom III]

No.

The only beings that can get Magic Tattoos are slave stock. Why sell to slaves?
The few humans worth of getting tattoos that aren't slaves would be more likely to get them as rewards than have to pay for them.

[Giant2005]

No.

The only beings that can get Magic Tattoos are slave stock. Why sell to slaves?
The few humans worth of getting tattoos that aren't slaves would be more likely to get them as rewards than have to pay for them.

Yes... Obviously a slave isn't going to be running around buying Tattoos.
I may not have been specific enough in the post but I was more referring to freeborn Humans, Ogres and Elves who want tattoos.
Sure they could perhaps be rewarded with tattoos for whatever service but in this case the service I am referring to is handing over a bunch of credits to the Splugorth.

They could just go the slave route and voluntarily become slaves and then use their 100,000 - 300,000 creds to buy their freedom but I was more looking for the means without the pointless and completely unnecessary middle steps.

[Dr. Doom III]

No.

The only beings that can get Magic Tattoos are slave stock. Why sell to slaves?
The few humans worth of getting tattoos that aren't slaves would be more likely to get them as rewards than have to pay for them.

Yes... Obviously a slave isn't going to be running around buying Tattoos.
I may not have been specific enough in the post but I was more referring to freeborn Humans, Ogres and Elves who want tattoos.
Sure they could perhaps be rewarded with tattoos for whatever service but in this case the service I am referring to is handing over a bunch of credits to the Splugorth.

They could just go the slave route and voluntarily become slaves and then use their 100,000 - 300,000 creds to buy their freedom but I was more looking for the means without the pointless and completely unnecessary middle steps.

No not slaves. Slave stock.
How shall I put this? It would be like some Southern racist pre-civil war selling a gun to a free black.
Unlikely at best.

[Giant2005]

No.

The only beings that can get Magic Tattoos are slave stock. Why sell to slaves?
The few humans worth of getting tattoos that aren't slaves would be more likely to get them as rewards than have to pay for them.

Yes... Obviously a slave isn't going to be running around buying Tattoos.
I may not have been specific enough in the post but I was more referring to freeborn Humans, Ogres and Elves who want tattoos.
Sure they could perhaps be rewarded with tattoos for whatever service but in this case the service I am referring to is handing over a bunch of credits to the Splugorth.

They could just go the slave route and voluntarily become slaves and then use their 100,000 - 300,000 creds to buy their freedom but I was more looking for the means without the pointless and completely unnecessary middle steps.

No not slaves. Slave stock.
How shall I put this? It would be like some Southern racist pre-civil war selling a gun to a free black.
Unlikely at best.

I guess that is a fair stance to take.
It isn't one that I would share however.
Humans are the predominant race in the Megaverse and the Splugorth are driven by profits beyond anything else. Cutting out the vast majority of their potential customers would be economically stupid.
The way I see it, a Splugorth has two options that would serve their needs whenever a human comes shopping: Enslave them and sell them to someone else or sell to them and be happy with the creds. The third option of telling them to **** off without sale nor enslavement isn't something I would expect of the Splugorth.

[Dr. Doom III]

I guess that is a fair stance to take.
It isn't one that I would share however.
Humans are the predominant race in the Megaverse and the Splugorth are driven by profits beyond anything else. Cutting out the vast majority of their potential customers would be economically stupid.
The way I see it, a Splugorth has two options that would serve their needs whenever a human comes shopping: Enslave them and sell them to someone else or sell to them and be happy with the creds. The third option of telling them to **** off without sale nor enslavement isn't something I would expect of the Splugorth.

But that doesn't really follow what's in the book.
Humans are slaves and treated like crap. The few free humans walking around Atlantis are assumed to either be very powerful or friends/pets of the very powerful but are still treated like crap if not outright hostility. The “good” races aren't customers. They're victims.

[Giant2005]

I guess that is a fair stance to take.
It isn't one that I would share however.
Humans are the predominant race in the Megaverse and the Splugorth are driven by profits beyond anything else. Cutting out the vast majority of their potential customers would be economically stupid.
The way I see it, a Splugorth has two options that would serve their needs whenever a human comes shopping: Enslave them and sell them to someone else or sell to them and be happy with the creds. The third option of telling them to **** off without sale nor enslavement isn't something I would expect of the Splugorth.

But that doesn't really follow what's in the book.
Humans are slaves and treated like crap. The few free humans walking around Atlantis are assumed to either be very powerful or friends/pets of the very powerful but are still treated like crap if not outright hostility. The “good” races aren't customers. They're victims.

But what of the very powerful humans wandering around? Sure they might be treated like crap but that doesn't mean they are going to be denied a sale. If they couldn't buy anything, there wouldn't be any mention of free humans in Atlantis because there would be no reason for one to be there.
That is all beside the point though, I wasn't really talking about Atlantis specifically, just Splugorth in general. The likes of Klynncryth is obviously not going to be enslaving every lesser race on Center because that would result in him either losing his trade privileges or his survival privileges. It is a free Market and humans are welcome to enter. He has the right to reject them services if that is his wish but considering how the Splugorth are described, I wouldn't expect that to be his wish.

[Lenwen]

Somewhere I thought there was a price list as to how much tats actually cost. I will do some digging an try to see if I am right or wrong on that but I do believe there is 1 some where.

[Giant2005]

Somewhere I thought there was a price list as to how much tats actually cost. I will do some digging an try to see if I am right or wrong on that but I do believe there is 1 some where.

Unless it is in a Rifter somewhere, I think you are probably wrong.
Either way I am hopeful your research will turn something up and I wait apprehensively.

[Dr. Doom III]

But what of the very powerful humans wandering around? Sure they might be treated like crap but that doesn't mean they are going to be denied a sale. If they couldn't buy anything, there wouldn't be any mention of free humans in Atlantis because there would be no reason for one to be there.
That is all beside the point though, I wasn't really talking about Atlantis specifically, just Splugorth in general. The likes of Klynncryth is obviously not going to be enslaving every lesser race on Center because that would result in him either losing his trade privileges or his survival privileges. It is a free Market and humans are welcome to enter. He has the right to reject them services if that is his wish but considering how the Splugorth are described, I wouldn't expect that to be his wish.

Since Tattoos aren't for sale they aren't really denied a sale now are they?
There are other merchants in a Splugorth market. But only the Splugorth have magic tattoos.

[Giant2005]

But what of the very powerful humans wandering around? Sure they might be treated like crap but that doesn't mean they are going to be denied a sale. If they couldn't buy anything, there wouldn't be any mention of free humans in Atlantis because there would be no reason for one to be there.
That is all beside the point though, I wasn't really talking about Atlantis specifically, just Splugorth in general. The likes of Klynncryth is obviously not going to be enslaving every lesser race on Center because that would result in him either losing his trade privileges or his survival privileges. It is a free Market and humans are welcome to enter. He has the right to reject them services if that is his wish but considering how the Splugorth are described, I wouldn't expect that to be his wish.

Since Tattoos aren't for sale they aren't really denied a sale now are they?
There are other merchants in a Splugorth market. But only the Splugorth have magic tattoos.

Okay got it, so you obviously don't think Splugorth are willing to sell tattoos outside of the T-Man packages.

Anyone else?

[Witchcraft]

I'm of the mindset that the Splugorth don't sell their tattoos. Period. They give them as rewards to their minions / slaves. Chaing-ku, on the other hand, DEFINITELY part ways with their mystical art and it is COSTLY

[Mercdog]

I think it might be possible to purchase a tattoo that's magic in Splynn, but it won't be an actual Tattoo Magic tattoo.

Rather it would be some bastardized version of such with a more minor effect. Something akin to the yakuza tattoo presented in Rifts Japan perhaps.

[Colt47]

The only way someone would probably be able to get a magic tattoo is if they paid off a non-human to take them to Atlantis as a slave and have the minions perform the necessary operations. The real issue is to find a non-human with strong ties to Atlantis and figuring out a way to enforce the deal.

[Mallak's Place]

I think the Splugorth minions will sell tattoos. But only to returning slave owners that bought a T-man from them.

Mr. Bad Guy on Phone "Hello Tommy's Tatoos? I bought a T-man from you guys last year, and I'd Like to bring her in for a Check-up and some new detailing."

[Lenwen]

I think the Splugorth minions will sell tattoos. But only to returning slave owners that bought a T-man from them.

I agree with this.

And I am also of the mindset that Atlantis is first an foremost all about the mighty Credit. And as such, anything / everything is for sale there .. to include those wonderous Magical Tattoo's .

If you willing to pay what the price is, I see no reason within logic that would state them as being not for sale, And I unfortunately must be wrong, as I can not find anywhere in the books that gives a list of tats per price.. so for that I do apologize.

[Nether]

But what of the very powerful humans wandering around? Sure they might be treated like crap but that doesn't mean they are going to be denied a sale. If they couldn't buy anything, there wouldn't be any mention of free humans in Atlantis because there would be no reason for one to be there.
That is all beside the point though, I wasn't really talking about Atlantis specifically, just Splugorth in general. The likes of Klynncryth is obviously not going to be enslaving every lesser race on Center because that would result in him either losing his trade privileges or his survival privileges. It is a free Market and humans are welcome to enter. He has the right to reject them services if that is his wish but considering how the Splugorth are described, I wouldn't expect that to be his wish.

Since Tattoos aren't for sale they aren't really denied a sale now are they?
There are other merchants in a Splugorth market. But only the Splugorth have magic tattoos.

That is Incorrect sir, as the True Atlanteans have the magic, as do the mentioned chang-ku.

If you are a "evil" human or pretend to be one on Atlantis, I really cant see them 'not' selling you a tattoo. Otherwise they would never let thier t-man slaves earn/buy thier freedom, let alone allow non minions to buy t-man slaves. T-men that show loyalty to the spluggorth can be given minion status. They are considered the lowest level of minion status along with the Sunaj, but they would be minions or possibly free.

As well i could have swore i saw a price listing somewhere for the tatts, and i thought they were around a million or so depending on category. I would have to see if i can find that and let you know.

[Nether]

We have also always allowed players to "aquire" magic tats if they want, but they have to role play out finding a merchant to Atlantis or someone willing to sell them, and in the case of Atlantis, they will prolly want some steep favors from you depending on what area of the world your in, and a good chance (i always add in such elements) that it is alignment conflicting / moral choices. There is always ways around the moral choice but it is up to the player to figure that out and possibly becomes a secret that he has to actively keep from the spluggorth.

Overall, really a magic tattoo is really only good to a player that has PPE, and even then it is just like learning a spell per say, but he cant have to many of them without destroying his magic ability.

But such player ambitions always makes for great opportunities for a GM to create adventure hooks and plots.

[Lenwen]

Do the Splugorth Sell Magic Tattoos?

You can find anything for sale in Atlantis .. So yes.

[Dr. Doom III]

But what of the very powerful humans wandering around? Sure they might be treated like crap but that doesn't mean they are going to be denied a sale. If they couldn't buy anything, there wouldn't be any mention of free humans in Atlantis because there would be no reason for one to be there.
That is all beside the point though, I wasn't really talking about Atlantis specifically, just Splugorth in general. The likes of Klynncryth is obviously not going to be enslaving every lesser race on Center because that would result in him either losing his trade privileges or his survival privileges. It is a free Market and humans are welcome to enter. He has the right to reject them services if that is his wish but considering how the Splugorth are described, I wouldn't expect that to be his wish.

Since Tattoos aren't for sale they aren't really denied a sale now are they?
There are other merchants in a Splugorth market. But only the Splugorth have magic tattoos.

That is Incorrect sir, as the True Atlanteans have the magic, as do the mentioned chang-ku.

If you are a "evil" human or pretend to be one on Atlantis, I really cant see them 'not' selling you a tattoo. Otherwise they would never let thier t-man slaves earn/buy thier freedom, let alone allow non minions to buy t-man slaves. T-men that show loyalty to the spluggorth can be given minion status. They are considered the lowest level of minion status along with the Sunaj, but they would be minions or possibly free.

As well i could have swore i saw a price listing somewhere for the tatts, and i thought they were around a million or so depending on category. I would have to see if i can find that and let you know.

I defy you to find a True Alantian tattoo shop in a Splugorth market.

[Nether]

But what of the very powerful humans wandering around? Sure they might be treated like crap but that doesn't mean they are going to be denied a sale. If they couldn't buy anything, there wouldn't be any mention of free humans in Atlantis because there would be no reason for one to be there.
That is all beside the point though, I wasn't really talking about Atlantis specifically, just Splugorth in general. The likes of Klynncryth is obviously not going to be enslaving every lesser race on Center because that would result in him either losing his trade privileges or his survival privileges. It is a free Market and humans are welcome to enter. He has the right to reject them services if that is his wish but considering how the Splugorth are described, I wouldn't expect that to be his wish.

Since Tattoos aren't for sale they aren't really denied a sale now are they?
There are other merchants in a Splugorth market. But only the Splugorth have magic tattoos.

That is Incorrect sir, as the True Atlanteans have the magic, as do the mentioned chang-ku.

If you are a "evil" human or pretend to be one on Atlantis, I really cant see them 'not' selling you a tattoo. Otherwise they would never let thier t-man slaves earn/buy thier freedom, let alone allow non minions to buy t-man slaves. T-men that show loyalty to the spluggorth can be given minion status. They are considered the lowest level of minion status along with the Sunaj, but they would be minions or possibly free.

As well i could have swore i saw a price listing somewhere for the tatts, and i thought they were around a million or so depending on category. I would have to see if i can find that and let you know.

I defy you to find a True Alantian tattoo shop in a Splugorth market.

Whoa, hey now i am not that crazy nor would i hope my Atlantean brothers be.. well actually it would actually make sense to open shop with a TA Tatoo occ to essentially arm the resistance people hiding out in Atlantis. Give them an somewhat fighting chance .. well kinda sorta...

[eliakon]

Splynn Dimensional Market pg 45 comes down squarly on both sides of the fence, it has a shop that sells tattoos, but only to clients with loyal slaves.....so the answer is there is an established price scale, you just have to see if they will service you