India

[Sammit]

Is there a rifter and anything that covers India?

[gordyzx9r]

AtB2 covers India...but they went way over the top with it, the content should have been for Rifts, not AtB.

[Sammit]

AtB2 covers India...but they went way over the top with it, the content should have been for Rifts, not AtB.

I read what was in the main book and found it lacking. I mean what was in the book has me really intrigued, but i'd like more.

[glitterboy2098]

one of the swimsuit issues has an NPC from ATB India.. provides some info on the area in her background.

[Sammit]

one of the swimsuit issues has an NPC from ATB India.. provides some info on the area in her background.

Really? you don't know which one, do you?

[glitterboy2098]

rifter 43, pg21, Sumaiya.

[Sammit]

Thanks. I added it to my Rifter List Post.

[gordyzx9r]

AtB2 covers India...but they went way over the top with it, the content should have been for Rifts, not AtB.

I read what was in the main book and found it lacking. I mean what was in the book has me really intrigued, but i'd like more.

They're entirely too powerful for AtB...especially when we're told that the EoH is supposed to be top dog.

[Sammit]

AtB2 covers India...but they went way over the top with it, the content should have been for Rifts, not AtB.

I read what was in the main book and found it lacking. I mean what was in the book has me really intrigued, but i'd like more.

They're entirely too powerful for AtB...especially when we're told that the EoH is supposed to be top dog.

EoH is the Top Dog in North America, not world-wide. The map doesn't make it look like their holdings are much, maybe just a couple of states. The Free Cattle seems like they have the most land. Besides, the elephants of India might be very powerful psionically, but my like everywhere else, if that's the concern. Or maybe they could handle the EoH psykers out of experience with dealing with their own crazies, which ties them up all the time. Actually I like the first Idea better. Good Psiconics, but maybe itty-bitty weak bodies. Ganesh uses a Rat as a vehicle, so maybe they do too, because they are so small. hmmm...

[glitterboy2098]

AtB2 covers India...but they went way over the top with it, the content should have been for Rifts, not AtB.

I read what was in the main book and found it lacking. I mean what was in the book has me really intrigued, but i'd like more.

They're entirely too powerful for AtB...especially when we're told that the EoH is supposed to be top dog.

EoH is the Top Dog in North America, not world-wide. The map doesn't make it look like their holdings are much, maybe just a couple of states. The Free Cattle seems like they have the most land.

the EoH is small fry compared to nations everywhere else. even in the old RPG, the humans invading england had more people than the EoH did, and it was implied there were other larger human groups in europe. likewise the human group invading austrilia is larger than the EoH. and nearly every mutant nation is bigger than the E0H population wise.

what the EoH has going for it is the fact it is the most technologically advanced compared to everyone else (save maybe that german group in europe), and is one of the few groups still developing new hardware.

Besides, the elephants of India might be very powerful psionically, but my like everywhere else, if that's the concern. Or maybe they could handle the EoH psykers out of experience with dealing with their own crazies, which ties them up all the time. Actually I like the first Idea better. Good Psiconics, but maybe itty-bitty weak bodies. Ganesh uses a Rat as a vehicle, so maybe they do too, because they are so small. hmmm...

well, psionics take Bio-E to obtain, and frankly the descriptions sound more like super-powers than regular ATB psionics, and the super powers take huge amounts of Bio-E to get. so indian elephants loosing lots of size to get massive Bio-E levels sounds viable to me.

though you might want to consider fudging things by adding larger rats as well.

[Sammit]

well, psionics take Bio-E to obtain, and frankly the descriptions sound more like super-powers than regular ATB psionics, and the super powers take huge amounts of Bio-E to get. so indian elephants loosing lots of size to get massive Bio-E levels sounds viable to me.

though you might want to consider fudging things by adding larger rats as well.

Yeah, I was thinking Mutant rats actually. Now who should i make being a significant opposing force? Should I might a human supremacist force there too or have it be mutant verse mutant. I am leaning toward just mutant groups because there are human supremacist forces everywhere it seems, hehe. Cobras seem like a logical choice. Tigers could be another choice, or even monkeys. Especially if the Monkeys worship Hanuman and resent the prominence of Ganesh. But actually having the monkeys and elephants be allies makes more sense from a knowledge-of-Hinduism point of view. Eagles verse snakes is a Hindu theme as well. And then of course there is the mongoose verse cobras. Maybe Cobras it'll be. Another consideration is how oppressive to make the elephants. Not oppressive at all and too aloof vs power-corrupted and very oppressive. I like the former, but i forget where, but i remember a mention of mutants fleeing oppression in India to Africa i think. I also thought about turning the oppression paradigm on it's head and have the remaining humans be "untouchables."

[glitterboy2098]

in the backstory of that rifter 43 NPC, it's mentioned that India under the ganeshi has a movement of carnivores which dislike the "no meat" policy of the ganesh.. apparently the Ganesh are big on the whole 'no violence, no meat" thing. so you have a counter-culture of renegades and rebels who not only eat meat, but will hunt down and eat other mutant animals in secret.
apparently the Ganeshi present themselves akin to gods or avatars of gods, using their power to rule over the other mutants, trying to reform the behavior of carnivores to make them more like herbivores, etc.

(btw.. it didn't say what the carnivores under the ganesh are supposed to eat.. i'm guessing something like meat potato..)

[Sammit]

in the backstory of that rifter 43 NPC, it's mentioned that India under the ganeshi has a movement of carnivores which dislike the "no meat" policy of the ganesh.. apparently the Ganesh are big on the whole 'no violence, no meat" thing. so you have a counter-culture of renegades and rebels who not only eat meat, but will hunt down and eat other mutant animals in secret.
apparently the Ganeshi present themselves akin to gods or avatars of gods, using their power to rule over the other mutants, trying to reform the behavior of carnivores to make them more like herbivores, etc.

(btw.. it didn't say what the carnivores under the ganesh are supposed to eat.. i'm guessing something like meat potato..)

Oo, i'll need to get that then! Probably, or they are just supposed to suffer. Do them mention if the elephants have 4 arms?

[gordyzx9r]

The book clearly states "the Empire is one of the strongest forces in the known world" and "Strongest and most feared of all the post-holocaust powers is the Empire of Humanity".

It doesn't get any clearer than that, and that is verbatim from AtB2 and a carry over from the true AtB.

In AtB2, the population numbers went awry...though one shouldn't discount technology vs. population.

I think they made some serious editing errors and contradictions when they added the new world powers.

Lakenveld (the Netherlands)
Capital City: The Hague w/pop. of 340,000
Population: 3,300,000

• Strong Constitutional Democracy
• Strong Navy
• Substantial infantry, armored, & air units (each equipped w/early 21st century technology
• Highly industrialized

Skandia (Northern Denmark)
Capital City: Alborg w/pop. of 55,000
Population: 1,000,000

• The last remaining human-dominated country in Europe
• 20,000 soldiers currently defending the border (Skandia is in the process of arming & equipping a force of 50,000)
• Powerful Navy & Air Force
• Advanced genetics technology, perhaps the best in the world

Zambiziland (Southeast Africa)
Capital City: Zambi w/pop. of 500,000
Population: 120,000,000

• Constitutional Republic
• Possibly the highest technology on the planet (advanced super computing, gene-tech, & microchip manufacturing)
• Home of the Donta (purebred elephants)

Inkuruland (South Africa)
Capital City: Kuri w/pop. of 3,415,000
Population: 24,000,000

• Federation of different clans, tribes, villages, & other political entities
• High level of industrial production

Ganesh (Indian Subcontinent)
Capital City: Ganeshi w/pop. of 1,800,000
Population: 384,500,000

• Theocracy based upon the worship of the Ganeshi
• Vast armies numbering in the millions that dominate their neighbors west to Afghanistan, north to Kajikistan and Kyrgystan, and east to Burma
• The Ganeshi purebred elephants are some kind of Pre-Death genetic Chimera experiment with a third eye & extraordinary psionics
• Home of the Hyderabad (purebred Baboons), technologically ingenious inventors & devoted worshippers of the Ganeshi


Compared to the EoH:

The Empire of Humanity (NY)
Capital City: Technoville (West Point) w/pop. of 18,500 humans and 40,000 others.
Population: 250,000; 28,500 true humans and 200,000 mutant animal slaves.

[glitterboy2098]

The book clearly states "the Empire is one of the strongest forces in the known world" and "Strongest and most feared of all the post-holocaust powers is the Empire of Humanity".

It doesn't get any clearer than that, and that is verbatim from AtB2 and a carry over from the true AtB.

and those lines were written for an ATB before any actual world info existed. if you compare the EoH to cardanai or any of the powers on the east coast (which at the time of writing, was the entire known world), those statements hold up.

but when you add in all the other ATB1 books, things stop being so cut and dried. the EoH is a midget compared ot the stuff on the west coast, which technically wasn't part of the 'known world' of cardania/EoH. and England and Austrialia fall into the same category.

it's like when people in europe bragged about being the old civilization on earth because of their ties to greece and rome. when China existed as a massive empire thousands of years before any of those ancient civ's even learned metallurgy.

[Sammit]

The book clearly states "the Empire is one of the strongest forces in the known world" and "Strongest and most feared of all the post-holocaust powers is the Empire of Humanity".

It doesn't get any clearer than that, and that is verbatim from AtB2 and a carry over from the true AtB.

In AtB2, the population numbers went awry...though one shouldn't discount technology vs. population.

I think they made some serious editing errors and contradictions when they added the new world powers.

Lakenveld (the Netherlands)
Capital City: The Hague w/pop. of 340,000
Population: 3,300,000

• Strong Constitutional Democracy
• Strong Navy
• Substantial infantry, armored, & air units (each equipped w/early 21st century technology
• Highly industrialized

Skandia (Northern Denmark)
Capital City: Alborg w/pop. of 55,000
Population: 1,000,000

• The last remaining human-dominated country in Europe
• 20,000 soldiers currently defending the border (Skandia is in the process of arming & equipping a force of 50,000)
• Powerful Navy & Air Force
• Advanced genetics technology, perhaps the best in the world

Zambiziland (Southeast Africa)
Capital City: Zambi w/pop. of 500,000
Population: 120,000,000

• Constitutional Republic
• Possibly the highest technology on the planet (advanced super computing, gene-tech, & microchip manufacturing)
• Home of the Donta (purebred elephants)

Inkuruland (South Africa)
Capital City: Kuri w/pop. of 3,415,000
Population: 24,000,000

• Federation of different clans, tribes, villages, & other political entities
• High level of industrial production

Ganesh (Indian Subcontinent)
Capital City: Ganeshi w/pop. of 1,800,000
Population: 384,500,000

• Theocracy based upon the worship of the Ganeshi
• Vast armies numbering in the millions that dominate their neighbors west to Afghanistan, north to Kajikistan and Kyrgystan, and east to Burma
• The Ganeshi purebred elephants are some kind of Pre-Death genetic Chimera experiment with a third eye & extraordinary psionics
• Home of the Hyderabad (purebred Baboons), technologically ingenious inventors & devoted worshippers of the Ganeshi


Compared to the EoH:

The Empire of Humanity (NY)
Capital City: Technoville (West Point) w/pop. of 18,500 humans and 40,000 others.
Population: 250,000; 28,500 true humans and 200,000 mutant animal slaves.

I stand corrected. But they can still be the most powerful and most feared, but still be lacking in ability to deal with high psionics using psionics. They can generally overcome with technology. And really, a nation would only need the ability to deploy ICBM to be the most powerful and feared, even if there is magic in britain or psionics anywhere else.

[Sammit]

The book clearly states "the Empire is one of the strongest forces in the known world" and "Strongest and most feared of all the post-holocaust powers is the Empire of Humanity".

It doesn't get any clearer than that, and that is verbatim from AtB2 and a carry over from the true AtB.

and those lines were written for an ATB before any actual world info existed. if you compare the EoH to cardanai or any of the powers on the east coast (which at the time of writing, was the entire known world), those statements hold up.

but when you add in all the other ATB1 books, things stop being so cut and dried. the EoH is a midget compared ot the stuff on the west coast, which technically wasn't part of the 'known world' of cardania/EoH. and England and Austrialia fall into the same category.

it's like when people in europe bragged about being the old civilization on earth because of their ties to greece and rome. when China existed as a massive empire thousands of years before any of those ancient civ's even learned metallurgy.

This is the impression on got from my readings of the other world books. But i think the comment i just made above could really explain things. ICBM, even without nukes could strike fear all over the world when is in ruins and isolated by various natural and supernatural barriers.

[gordyzx9r]

and those lines were written for an ATB before any actual world info existed. if you compare the EoH to cardanai or any of the powers on the east coast (which at the time of writing, was the entire known world), those statements hold up.

And yet they appear in AtB2...the original intent of the EoH was that they be the most powerful.

but when you add in all the other ATB1 books, things stop being so cut and dried. the EoH is a midget compared ot the stuff on the west coast, which technically wasn't part of the 'known world' of cardania/EoH. and England and Austrialia fall into the same category.

The EoH knew well enough of the west coast as well as Latin America. They are supplying local human groups in the west (The Human Elite) and we're led to believe that they're pulling the strings in Imperial Mexico.

it's like when people in europe bragged about being the old civilization on earth because of their ties to greece and rome. when China existed as a massive empire thousands of years before any of those ancient civ's even learned metallurgy.

The books descriptions don't insinuate that the power is ranked against those local to them.

[glitterboy2098]

no, but they are ranked by the out-of-universe authors according to the knowledge at the time of writing.

[gordyzx9r]

no, but they are ranked by the out-of-universe authors according to the knowledge at the time of writing.

I'm not following you.

[Sammit]

no, but they are ranked by the out-of-universe authors according to the knowledge at the time of writing.

I'm not following you.

I think (s)he mean to interoperate the intentions of the late-great Erick Wujcik writings of AtB2 and the supplements that AtB was supposed to be North American centric, but was not written that way because the rest of the world wasn't so fleshed-out.

[glitterboy2098]

pretty much. when Eric Wujick wrote those words originally, ATB was just a sourcebook for TMNT, and only dealt with the american east coast. ATB2 repeats them verbatim, but you'll notice that the section it appears in is copied directly from the old book. copy-paste editing.

as the game developed, Erick dropped that aspect in favor of allowing other areas to have interesting factions. if the EoH was the top of the world, that means that you could never have a faction with more than 200K people. which would make for some really boring adventuring.

[Sammit]

I'd like to work on an India supplement. It's going to be a hobby. I don't know if I am going to design it for a rifter or for more, but i'd like to use this thread as a sounding board. I am aiming to to be a place you'd want to run a game. If anyone wants to help, i definitely would not mind a division of labor.

[gordyzx9r]

pretty much. when Eric Wujick wrote those words originally, ATB was just a sourcebook for TMNT, and only dealt with the american east coast. ATB2 repeats them verbatim, but you'll notice that the section it appears in is copied directly from the old book. copy-paste editing.

as the game developed, Erick dropped that aspect in favor of allowing other areas to have interesting factions. if the EoH was the top of the world, that means that you could never have a faction with more than 200K people. which would make for some really boring adventuring.

There were plenty of populations that had >200K populations numbers in the old supplements...Imperial Mexico had 15,000,000 Mutant Animals. I still think his original intent was that the EoH is the be all and end all of world powers that everyone should be measured against, regardless of the poor editing that took place.

[Soldier of Od]

I'd like to work on an India supplement. It's going to be a hobby. I don't know if I am going to design it for a rifter or for more, but i'd like to use this thread as a sounding board. I am aiming to to be a place you'd want to run a game. If anyone wants to help, i definitely would not mind a division of labor.

Hi Sammit. I've written quite a bit for a possible Rifter submission or even a supplement based on South East Asia. It's possible that some of the 23 new animal templates and 20 new purebred and chimera templates I have done might cross over to India. I have made the jungles of Myanmar pretty much impenetrable and full of giant spiderwebs (presumably poplulated by some sort of mutant spiders or chimera creatures), basically for convenience - giving myself a border to limit the range of my locals.

P.S. were you at the Palladium Open House? I think I may have turned into a zombie and eaten your face off!

[Sammit]

I'd like to work on an India supplement. It's going to be a hobby. I don't know if I am going to design it for a rifter or for more, but i'd like to use this thread as a sounding board. I am aiming to to be a place you'd want to run a game. If anyone wants to help, i definitely would not mind a division of labor.

Hi Sammit. I've written quite a bit for a possible Rifter submission or even a supplement based on South East Asia. It's possible that some of the 23 new animal templates and 20 new purebred and chimera templates I have done might cross over to India. I have made the jungles of Myanmar pretty much impenetrable and full of giant spiderwebs (presumably poplulated by some sort of mutant spiders or chimera creatures), basically for convenience - giving myself a border to limit the range of my locals.

P.S. were you at the Palladium Open House? I think I may have turned into a zombie and eaten your face off!

I was! and yes, you might've! you were the one driving or the Gentleman from England? And what animals do you cover?

[Sammit]

So i am working on a India supplement. I am aiming for a "real" book or e-book as opposed to a Rifter article or 2, but we will see where my Muse leaves me. But should is post things such as new mutants and updates to old mutants here? I wouldn't mind the feedback, especially for balance.