Dead Boy Armor

[flatline]

Because being an SDC critter in an MDC environment means your armor is your life.

--flatline

[jaymz]

Because being an SDC critter in an MDC environment means your armor is your life.

--flatline

have you ever worn a set of body armor? it saves your life sure... but it sucks. And even then, most infantrymen only wear the torso portion and maybe the crotch protector.
they have the option to wear thigh and shoulder armor but they don't because it's uncomfortable.

Mostly because, as I understand it, modern armour n Rifts is not as restrictive as today's modern armour and even if you think being environmental is BS it is environmental thus likely more comfortable to be in than today's armour.

Combine that with an internal oxygen supply and the fact the sealed armour can will help protect you against psionics and magic to some degree as well....well in Rifts that IS the difference between life and death much of the time.

[glitterboy2098]

rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

rifts EBA has augmented visions modes (nightvision and telescopic zoom, at minimum form most), and you can do a lot with microphones now. (like 360 degree sensing, false position surround sound headphones, noise filtering to prevent hearing loss while detecting faint sounds..) both are things modern militaries are working hard to give all their soldiers today.

the restrictions for sense are mostly the loss of smell (which many soldiers will tell, is a good thing after a few days in the field), some loss of peripheral vision (that is going to be dependent on helmet design), and some loss of touch. (you loose fine texture sense and fine heat sense, mainly)

[jaymz]

rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

Well they have Millions of suits of old school SAMAS in storage so yeah I could believe that

[ShadowLogan]

rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

+1

Also makes for built in NBC-warfare capability. Which would be an asset when dealing with alien organisms.

If there is an issue one might consider (as a house rule since it isn't a standard feature) the EBA to have some type of power assist, not Exo-skeleton or Power Armor grade.

[Killer Cyborg]

Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

Okay... here's why:
1. Armor is bulky, but if it keeps you from getting killed then it's worth it.
2. The armor has A/C.
3. Apparently, the armor does not make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.

Basically, you're kind of asking why Superman would ever jump off a building, since everybody knows that flight is impossible and he'd just fall to his death.
Either go with the premises of the setting, or don't try to interact with the setting.

[jaymz]

Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

Okay... here's why:
1. Armor is bulky, but if it keeps you from getting killed then it's worth it.
2. The armor has A/C.
3. Apparently, the armor does not make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.

Basically, you're kind of asking why Superman would ever jump off a building, since everybody knows that flight is impossible and he'd just fall to his death.
Either go with the premises of the setting, or don't try to interact with the setting.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

1: Military Regs. They do what they're told.
2: It keeps your very very gooshy SDC self alive more than 3 minutes in rifts earth. This seems simplistic but there's ducks and bugs out there with MDC. Little knee sized lizards have MDC. And can DO MDC type damage. Vibro blades do MDC, you need the ability to live past the first action of the first round of combat, with.... --anything-- you encounter on rifts earth.
3: It is environmental, and has the before mentioned air circulation. It also has alot of stuff built in there to make the troop's life easier. Keeps you from dieing from gas, or drowning, or if you get buried in a building or something the air supply keeps you alive till they can dig you out. ((Hopefully)) That "Environmental" part is pretty big.
4: It is going to be bulky and more uncomfortable than normal clothes. But they don't wear it 24/7. They wear it while in the field or on patrol. Around base or what not I'd imagine they wear fatigues (( Or CS versions of the Northern Gun MDC cloth fatigues.)) When "On duty" Some will be in armor, for the protection it provides. The helmet of the new arnor is all one way MDC glass. They have the full range of vision, and mic/speakers that give them full stereo hearing. I'd say your sense of smell is lost inside the helmet (( Being environmental, if smells get in gasses would get in and it wouldn't be environmental)) And while humans CAN detect a goodly number of things with our noses. It's not our primary sense and it's a bit of a trade off. No smellin' in the armor (( except your own BO)) or getting lased by a sniper... sort of easy trade there.

Really one could go on all day, but the simple answer is "It keeps you alive. Discomfort before Death"

[The Beast]

Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

Why?

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

[flatline]

If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

Really? My characters never wore environmentally sealed body armor unless it was part of a disguise.

Made a lot of money selling "used" armor, though.

--flatline

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

Really? My characters never wore environmentally sealed body armor unless it was part of a disguise.

Made a lot of money selling "used" armor, though.

--flatline

Not saying it is an absolute necessity, just that it is a well entrenched and accepted fact of life that has been present for over three centuries of the planet's history. The truth is, however, that without magic or psionic protection, using less than full EBA greatly increases your chance of being killed by any one of a thousand possible hazards, the least of which is a stray rail gun slug or laser.

[Wooly]

Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

As others have said it is the same reason Marines and soldiers wear body armor today. The interceptor body armor I wore in Iraq in 2003 and 2005 as an Infantryman was very much non-enviromental. Hot, heavy, bulky and uncomfortable. We all wore it religiously. As for losing sensory perception. I can tell you that many guys won't wear conventional ear plugs for this reason. The higher end enhanced electronic ear protection (Soridin) is a good start and one can extrapolate that 100 years from before the coming of the Rifts it would be mature technology.

Military chemical warfare suits are the primative precursor of full enviromental body armor. Being suited up sucks. You are wearing an insulated charcoal suit with no ventilation. Breathing through a gas mask filter is like trying to suck air through a coffee straw. During the invasion we were in MOPP 2 most of the time. I have been in MOPP 4 for around 24 hours in peace time training. Nothing fun about it. Why wear it? It is a necessity if you want a chance for staying alive in an NBC environment.

Discomfort and sweating are the least of your worries when the alternative is dying.

[Pepsi Jedi]

If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

Really? My characters never wore environmentally sealed body armor unless it was part of a disguise.

Made a lot of money selling "used" armor, though.

--flatline

Your char's used magic to get the armor though, right?

[Nightmask]

Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

I smell a troll.

But anyway, you've made some false assumptions here.

1. It's not hot. It keeps the person inside at the ideal temperature.
2. The idea of environmental armor may be bs TO YOU, but the fact remains that in this setting it is environmental armor and it works like it says in the books. It's sealed, has an internal oxygen supply etc.
3. The helmet doesn't make you lose sensory capability. Otherwise there would be negative penalties to perception and similar skills in the description. If I remember correctly the new style Dead Boy armor has a HUD (Heads Up Display, with all manner of sensory info being displayed for the wearer) inside the helmet.

Have you read the description in the RUE page 261, of the specifics of environmental armor? I suggest you read it again. Or maybe play another RPG if the specifics of this one are as you put it, BS.

I'm not seeing where the idea of environmental armor being ridiculous comes from either, not like we haven't produced environmentally regulated outfits in real life (space suits), or body armor. So the idea of them combined together by a society that's marched technology ahead to the point it's creating things like Glitter Boys and their Boom Guns is pretty reasonable.

[flatline]

If you have an issue with environmentally sealed body armor, you are in the wrong setting.

Really? My characters never wore environmentally sealed body armor unless it was part of a disguise.

Made a lot of money selling "used" armor, though.

--flatline

Your char's used magic to get the armor though, right?

Magic. Or psionics. Or super powers. Or we bashed him into trees, walls, boulders, etc until he was a bloody pulp inside his perfectly undamaged armor (use Cleanse to get the smell out). We weren't married to any particular set of tactics.

Edit: I forgot the always effective "take your helmet off, or we'll twist it off"...

But the most profitable was just to grab multiple suits of armor from storage and avoid combat entirely.

--flatline

[Colt47]

It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

[Wooly]

It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Heads up displays have been around on fighter pilot and attack helicopter pilot helmets for at least 20 years. They are not an advanced technology. The capability to produce small fairly high resolution LED screens is here now.

Enhanced electronic ear protection/enhancement also already exists. It enhances sound picking up quiet noises and cancels out loud noises over a certain decibel range (like gun shots). You can buy a cheap pair of ear muff style electronic ear pro for $50 from Peltor.

The higher end stuff that the military uses like MSA Sordin incorporates communications (radio) with the hearing protection. With a throat microphone that attaches around the neck against ones vocal cords. You can mutter under your breath and transmit a normal clear spoken message. All this technology has been around for 20 years. high resolution video cameras with zoom features are the size of a tube of lip stick.

I would not assign any penalty to a character wearing full EBA. In fact if anything the technology to build EBA exists now it is only a matter of materials technology improving to make it light enough to wear.

EBA should probably run on E-clips to power ancillary systems. Night Vision, Thermal, IR, video cameras, digital recorder, electronic hearing protection, fans, AC/heater, filters, air pump/compressor (I assume it can recharge its small internal tank with clean, filtered compressed air under non-NBC conditions), radio, radio encryption hardware, et al

[Colt47]

It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Heads up displays have been around on fighter pilot and attack helicopter pilot helmets for at least 20 years. They are not an advanced technology. The capability to produce small fairly high resolution LED screens is here now.

Enhanced electronic ear protection/enhancement also already exists. It enhances sound picking up quiet noises and cancels out loud noises over a certain decibel range (like gun shots). You can buy a cheap pair of ear muff style electronic ear pro for $50 from Peltor.

The higher end stuff that the military uses like MSA Sordin incorporates communications (radio) with the hearing protection. With a throat microphone that attaches around the neck against ones vocal cords. You can mutter under your breath and transmit a normal clear spoken message. All this technology has been around for 20 years. high resolution video cameras with zoom features are the size of a tube of lip stick.

I would not assign any penalty to a character wearing full EBA. In fact if anything the technology to build EBA exists now it is only a matter of materials technology improving to make it light enough to wear.

EBA should probably run on E-clips to power ancillary systems. Night Vision, Thermal, IR, video cameras, digital recorder, electronic hearing protection, fans, AC/heater, filters, air pump/compressor (I assume it can recharge its small internal tank with clean, filtered compressed air under non-NBC conditions), radio, radio encryption hardware, et al

Then give the tech to the CS, because they don't have it according to the books. The only ones who have HUD camera displays are Triax and the NGR.

[Wooly]

It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Heads up displays have been around on fighter pilot and attack helicopter pilot helmets for at least 20 years. They are not an advanced technology. The capability to produce small fairly high resolution LED screens is here now.

Enhanced electronic ear protection/enhancement also already exists. It enhances sound picking up quiet noises and cancels out loud noises over a certain decibel range (like gun shots). You can buy a cheap pair of ear muff style electronic ear pro for $50 from Peltor.

The higher end stuff that the military uses like MSA Sordin incorporates communications (radio) with the hearing protection. With a throat microphone that attaches around the neck against ones vocal cords. You can mutter under your breath and transmit a normal clear spoken message. All this technology has been around for 20 years. high resolution video cameras with zoom features are the size of a tube of lip stick.

I would not assign any penalty to a character wearing full EBA. In fact if anything the technology to build EBA exists now it is only a matter of materials technology improving to make it light enough to wear.

EBA should probably run on E-clips to power ancillary systems. Night Vision, Thermal, IR, video cameras, digital recorder, electronic hearing protection, fans, AC/heater, filters, air pump/compressor (I assume it can recharge its small internal tank with clean, filtered compressed air under non-NBC conditions), radio, radio encryption hardware, et al

Then give the tech to the CS, because they don't have it according to the books. The only ones who have HUD camera displays are Triax and the NGR.

Is this a case of Triax was written after RMB? My memory is vague but I seem to recall that the new style CS EBA has HUDs? Either way it is silly to suggest that it is too high tech for the CS not to include in their armor.

[Colt47]

It comes down to a suspension of disbelief ordeal. The CS has ALWAYS had problems with their armor since the inception of the game, though thankfully they got away from some of it by moving to the newer design. The problems with the old armor include having a faceplate that would likely remind villagers of old legendary world slayer demons, undead, and necromancers, armor plates that would drive someone crazy (try wearing a storm trooper costume and imagine it with air conditioning... not much of an improvement), and an extreme lack of peripheral vision. In reality the CS would be taking more losses from people exploiting the armor weaknesses, even if the armor prevented opportunistic shots to a barely exposed face or neck.

The new style armor takes care of a lot of the issues of the old one by replacing the face mask with an EVA style visor. However, the armor would likely be uncomfortable for long periods just like the previous suit. Also, it seems kind of ironic that the CS like to hide their human faces behind helmets all the time as it provides some serious security risks, such as having a human like D-bee don a full environmental suit. It's not like a Dog Boy can smell someone through an air tight piece of equipment, especially one that probably has the smell of d-bee on it anyway given normal operations.

On a side note, wearing full EBA of any kind should probably give a -2 penalty to perception anyway due to the nature of wearing an enclosed suit. The only ones that probably could get away from it are Triax and Naruni, since they got the tech to make decent video projections on the inside of the helmet.

Heads up displays have been around on fighter pilot and attack helicopter pilot helmets for at least 20 years. They are not an advanced technology. The capability to produce small fairly high resolution LED screens is here now.

Enhanced electronic ear protection/enhancement also already exists. It enhances sound picking up quiet noises and cancels out loud noises over a certain decibel range (like gun shots). You can buy a cheap pair of ear muff style electronic ear pro for $50 from Peltor.

The higher end stuff that the military uses like MSA Sordin incorporates communications (radio) with the hearing protection. With a throat microphone that attaches around the neck against ones vocal cords. You can mutter under your breath and transmit a normal clear spoken message. All this technology has been around for 20 years. high resolution video cameras with zoom features are the size of a tube of lip stick.

I would not assign any penalty to a character wearing full EBA. In fact if anything the technology to build EBA exists now it is only a matter of materials technology improving to make it light enough to wear.

EBA should probably run on E-clips to power ancillary systems. Night Vision, Thermal, IR, video cameras, digital recorder, electronic hearing protection, fans, AC/heater, filters, air pump/compressor (I assume it can recharge its small internal tank with clean, filtered compressed air under non-NBC conditions), radio, radio encryption hardware, et al

Then give the tech to the CS, because they don't have it according to the books. The only ones who have HUD camera displays are Triax and the NGR.

Is this a case of Triax was written after RMB? My memory is vague but I seem to recall that the new style CS EBA has HUDs? Either way it is silly to suggest that it is too high tech for the CS not to include in their armor.

HUDs are a bit different than what Triax has. Triax literally has no view port on their armor: everything is viewed through high definition optic systems that are compact and built onto the helmet.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Why?
Because chicks dig the armor even the d-bees ones, and we aren't talking about the ones you bring home to meet mom, we are talking about the ones , your father would be proud of you for.

[kaid]

Is there any REAL reason that a coalition soldier would bother to wear the full set?
It's bulky, it's definitely hot (the idea of environmental armor is BS), the helmet would make you lose most of your sensory capabilities.
So why would anyone ever wear this?

Instant death if you have any exposed flesh is a pretty good incentive. As for hot it is a full environmental suite with heating and cooling capabilities. The biggest problem would be the bulkieness and chafing. Other than that I am assuming given its fully environmental it would have the space suite like um bathroom hookups so overall pretty reasonably comfortable and practical for traveling.

[kaid]

rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

If you have a fully sealed environmental body armor you sort of need this kind of heating/cooling. It is not for comfort it is so your troops do not pass out. The human body is 98.6 degrees and if you are in a sealed environment your own body temperature would wind up cooking you and thats not even including external heat sources like the sun.

At very least you wind up with cycling the suites drinking water past your chest and back and through a small heating/cooling element. Given the rated temps the suits are rated for it sort of assumes a reasonably robust heating/cooling capability and if you look at it the armor is not cheap as it is and cheeping out on something that could cause your troops to keel over from heat stroke seems a poor allocation of resources.

[Traska]

RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

I just snorted water out of my nose and all over my keyboard.

[Pepsi Jedi]

RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

Very good observation.

[jaymz]

RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

Epic post is Epic.

[Blindscout]

RIFTS: We have dragons and hovercraft and flying motorcycles and roided out freaks and brain implant lunatics and cyborgs and robots and flying armor and laser guns and magic and demons and unicorns and rail guns that will knock a half ton suit on its tin plated kiester and doorways to other worlds and indestructible metal and fusion engines that can fit inside a human sized body and hives full of humanoid insects that are built like tanks and mind readers that can blow your head off like Scanners...

...but air conditioning? NO. N-O, NO. That's where I draw the line pal, what are you, crazy?

This post is 100 percent, pure, Grade AAA, unadulterated WIN

[Noon]

rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

If it stops your soldiers from wearing their armour in a half assed way that gets them killed all too easily, yes.

[Pepsi Jedi]

rifts enviromental armor is more like a spacesuit or a deep diving suit. you have fans to circulate the air in the helmet. you have cooling tube garments to actively cool or heat your body and keep you from overheating or going hypothermic. you have plenty of padding to keep the suit from rubbing the wrong way.

is is comfortable? probably less so than regular clothes, but you wear armor for protection, not comfort.

but would the coalition army really pay to have all of those comforts like a self cooling unit put in for their most basic soldier? especially when they have millions to accommodate?

If it stops your soldiers from wearing their armour in a half assed way that gets them killed all too easily, yes.

Let's not forget, they can make nuclear power sources the size of hockey pucks to put in MILLIONS of suits of power armor. (( Stated they've over a million Sam's in storage. Then there is all the rest)), they can out fit every one of their 2+million troops with laser rifles that are stronger than the guns on a moddern day battle tank. Pistols, vibro blades,, ect, all the tanks, aircraft, power armor, sky cycles, other vehicles, millions of Skelebots, ect ect ect.

Again we're back to "you believe alllll of rifts, but it's the AC that stops you?

[flatline]

Out of curiosity, where is it stated that the reactor in the SAMAS is the size of a hockey puck?

--flatline

[Colt47]

Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

[Nightmask]

Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

When you consider how many skelebots and power-armor wearing troops the CS is said to have fielded (such as the supposed millions used in the war with Tolkeen) that doesn't seem very likely, somehow they do indeed have power cores for everything and more in stock when the time comes to replace a depleted one with a new one.

[flatline]

If there are hockey puck sized reactors floating around, how come we don't see any built into energy rifles for unlimited payloads?

--flatline

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

If there are hockey puck sized reactors floating around, how come we don't see any built into energy rifles for unlimited payloads?

--flatline

There's more to the nuclear power system than just the core.

[Nightmask]

If there are hockey puck sized reactors floating around, how come we don't see any built into energy rifles for unlimited payloads?

--flatline

Because then you couldn't mess with players having it so their characters have to constantly scrounge for E-clips and charge them absurd amounts to recharge the ones that they have. After all that Northern Gun power pack which can recharge itself, why not just put a power core in it and set yourself up with an infinite number of shots carrying the pack around? There should be more than a few energy weapons floating around with unlimited payloads like that but we never see any like we should.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I suspect it's the "Rapid expulsion of the stored energy" that's different in Eclips and power cores.

Power cores give stable out put of a much lower scale for longer.

Eclips are built to deliver more power in the lowest Epistol shot, in one mili second, than a modern day tank can do with it's main gun.

A huuuuuuuuge and instant out put of energy in a minute fraction of the time.

[Colt47]

Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

When you consider how many skelebots and power-armor wearing troops the CS is said to have fielded (such as the supposed millions used in the war with Tolkeen) that doesn't seem very likely, somehow they do indeed have power cores for everything and more in stock when the time comes to replace a depleted one with a new one.

The skelebots are a numerical issue for sure. The official numbers sound really off given what the CS controls and there is no way they found that many mothballed NEMA bots that they could scrap for skelebots and still have functional power cells. Also, their civilian infrastructure must be pretty underwhelming if they spend most of their recovered scrap materials on more giant robots and war machines, which is the impression the CWC seems to leave.

What it comes down to is that the Coalition States just doesn't feel as believable as Free Quebec (which still draws a few questions, but not nearly on the same scale), or the various independent kingdoms. It doesn't help much that the CS keeps getting built up even further via tidbits in future books without even bothering to address the background issues.

[Nightmask]

Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

When you consider how many skelebots and power-armor wearing troops the CS is said to have fielded (such as the supposed millions used in the war with Tolkeen) that doesn't seem very likely, somehow they do indeed have power cores for everything and more in stock when the time comes to replace a depleted one with a new one.

The skelebots are a numerical issue for sure. The official numbers sound really off given what the CS controls and there is no way they found that many mothballed NEMA bots that they could scrap for skelebots and still have functional power cells. Also, their civilian infrastructure must be pretty underwhelming if they spend most of their recovered scrap materials on more giant robots and war machines, which is the impression the CWC seems to leave. It just doesn't feel as believable as Free Quebec (which still draws a few questions, but not nearly on the same scale), or the various independent kingdoms.

I imagine they have everyone well brainwashed to accept that on the civilian end as simply part of the eternal war against those 'evil' aliens, of which nearly all anymore are born and raised on Earth.

Yes Free Quebec at least is said to have spent centuries stockpiling Glitter Boys, making a few extra every year and prior to the war outsourced a lot of their needed production especially of power cores to Triax who could easily handle the demand. So they could just pop in the cores and have thousands of extra Glitter Boys ready to field that they didn't before. Not like the CS popping up millions of troops from nowhere.

I'm surprised that the war books didn't allow for more salvage particularly of power cores, it's extremely unlikely that nearly all of them were destroyed when the bots were (although we unfortunately aren't given an MDC rating or any idea of how large they actually are and have to extrapolate that from the size of the items that the cores are installed in). Those skelebot graveyards should provide dozens of handy cores to make use of.

[glitterboy2098]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Hungry_hippo, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy

suits with self contained life support, built with protection able to withstand most rifles and pistols.
Suits with self contained life support, armored able to withstand most pistol hits.. note that some of the designs being looked at for the future include armored articulated hardshells instead of the layers of ballistic cloth current ones use.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Actually, the truth about the stored Power Armor is that the CS likely recycles a limited supply of power cores. The armor doesn't need a power source when it is in storage and it makes the armor harder to steal (the thief would have to know how to hook up their own power supply to the stored suit and make it operational.) The question is how many power supplies are floating around and how often are they refitted.

When you consider how many skelebots and power-armor wearing troops the CS is said to have fielded (such as the supposed millions used in the war with Tolkeen) that doesn't seem very likely, somehow they do indeed have power cores for everything and more in stock when the time comes to replace a depleted one with a new one.

The skelebots are a numerical issue for sure. The official numbers sound really off given what the CS controls and there is no way they found that many mothballed NEMA bots that they could scrap for skelebots and still have functional power cells. Also, their civilian infrastructure must be pretty underwhelming if they spend most of their recovered scrap materials on more giant robots and war machines, which is the impression the CWC seems to leave. It just doesn't feel as believable as Free Quebec (which still draws a few questions, but not nearly on the same scale), or the various independent kingdoms.

I imagine they have everyone well brainwashed to accept that on the civilian end as simply part of the eternal war against those 'evil' aliens, of which nearly all anymore are born and raised on Earth.

Yes Free Quebec at least is said to have spent centuries stockpiling Glitter Boys, making a few extra every year and prior to the war outsourced a lot of their needed production especially of power cores to Triax who could easily handle the demand. So they could just pop in the cores and have thousands of extra Glitter Boys ready to field that they didn't before. Not like the CS popping up millions of troops from nowhere.

I'm surprised that the war books didn't allow for more salvage particularly of power cores, it's extremely unlikely that nearly all of them were destroyed when the bots were (although we unfortunately aren't given an MDC rating or any idea of how large they actually are and have to extrapolate that from the size of the items that the cores are installed in). Those skelebot graveyards should provide dozens of handy cores to make use of.

Addressing both, but yes, Nightmask has it right, though not really needed 'brainwashing'. (( I've agreed with Nightmask twice in ten minutes.... ))

The CS is very much on what we today call "War Footing" yes, ------ Most------- of their society revolves around the mantaining and build up of their military machine. Most jobs revolve around that. Most production revolves around that. They do have farmers and store owners and stuff, but again it folds back into the military machine. The farmers grow their (( geneticaly surperior)) cows to feed the people in the citys, that work in the factories and what not putting together the armor, arms, skelebots, ect for the military. The military is HUGE and uses this equipment and material for the purpose of keeping the "Society" Safe from the demonic and alien 'invaders' that are trying constantly to destroy humanity on earth.

Now that sounds a bit like the party line, but in this case it's very much true. Unlike "our" earth where 'Evil" is some what subjective. You might see another country's actions as 'evil' but they're still a nation of humans. In Rifts, there really ---are--- demonic and alien monsters trying to eat people. The CS is NOT PERFECT. Though their fear, born of 200-300 years of being food for demons and monsters and slaves and worse, they see "all" DBees as Demonic or Alien monsters. And they're not all that. They are not.

There ARE those out there though. And because of that, and because of how strong they are and how much danger they pose to humanity, the CS (( just like the NGR)) Needs it's massive military to keep the people from being wiped out.

In the CS case, they just don't stop to qualify the what's, they see most if not all as threats.
The NGR, for all the hype, is just one small step better. They still move Dbees to their borders or let um put in decaded of military service to become low end secondary citizens that noone likes. The difference being the NGR has a "SET" and "CLEAR" Enemy to face. The Gargoyles, and the Brodkill.

The CS.. has EVERYTHING to face. And because they dont' have as clear cut enemies, some of the 'good' DBees get lumped in with the bad. The CS is wrong to do this. But in their minds, pausing to pick and choose or ask a Dbee 20 questions gives it time to rip off your head, suck your spinal fluid and poop down your neck hole. So they generally don't risk it if it comes to that.

Back around to the main point though, yes, the CS is on war footing, or wartime production, and most of their society and economy revolvs around that. Your average person gets up. Goes to work in an industry that supports the military. Puts in his 9 hours, comes home. Gets paid and spends money in the CS, wich funnels right back into the military. We see this any time MAJOR War breaks out on earth. Look up WWI and WWII and the way the country shifted to war footing then. Women working in factories making bombs while the men went off and fought. (( I'm not trying to be sexist. It happend. I know women CAN fight, but in WWI andd WWII it was mostly men)). There were many people that changed over to doing jobs and such to support the war. Many programs to promote this.

The thing with the CS is.. their war is long running. Their 'Domain" is a dozen states worth of the US more or less. And even that's spotty as hell. They're beset and surrounded by hostile alien and demonic forces 24/7. So their "War footing' is ongoing. Their society --is-- built up to support and produce the military. to the point that when/if the CS ever wins. and Secures North America, if they don't keep going to clear and clean the rest of the world, they will have to face a --------------major---------------- sociatal shift to continue as a nation. Coming off that war production can be crushing to a society and economy.

Thankfully it'd take 100s if not 1000s of years to reach that goal, so it's not one they're worried about right now.