Maximum AR?

[Dobergirl]

This is relevant to something I'm doing. IS there such thing as MAX AR? Is 18 as much as one can get AR or is there possibility of having even bigger AR? If there's a MAX AR one can't pass, what value would that be?

[Tinker Dragoon]

It seems like 19 would be the practical limit (and I think the Triax plain-clothes armor in Rifts can go this high), but I've never actually seen a rule on it.

[Damian Magecraft]

It seems like 19 would be the practical limit (and I think the Triax plain-clothes armor in Rifts can go this high), but I've never actually seen a rule on it.

yeah... Nothing official but 19 does look to be the limit. But since bonuses to strike do count toward beating AR there probably is none.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I can see no technical reason for having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls. [Note I am not disagreeing with TD, nor DM about it's max use in canon. Even though TD's example if from rifts.]

However, my opinion is that the absolute max AR a armor can have is 21. With a nat 20 still passing through the armor to the char wearing it, but not as a crit. strike damage. To be more effective the armor would need to have a Nat AR. Nat AR's would start at a score of 4.

The mechanics of a Nat. AR4 is the same concept as with Force Fields, if is hits it hits the armor, if the attack is misses, it misses. There is no hitting and bouncing off as is possible with higher Nat AR scores.

PS: I think the Nat.AR for armor is called Robotic AR *shrugs* The problem is that in HU2 the AR in the robotics section is not specifically defined as ether like normal AR or as like Nat AR. It is written as if the player already knows which it is. This is a fault that has been argued over in this forum before. I am not going to be a part of it if someone wants to start it up again here.

[Damian Magecraft]

I can see no technical reason for having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls. [Note I am not disagreeing with TD, nor DM about it's max use in canon. Even though TD's example if from rifts.]

However, my opinion is that the absolute max AR a armor can have is 21. With a nat 20 still passing through the armor to the char wearing it, but not as a crit. strike damage. To be more effective the armor would need to have a Nat AR. Nat AR's would start at a score of 4.

The mechanics of a Nat. AR4 is the same concept as with Force Fields, if is hits it hits the armor, if the attack is misses, it misses. There is no hitting and bouncing off as is possible with higher Nat AR scores.

PS: I think the Nat.AR for armor is called Robotic AR *shrugs* The problem is that in HU2 the AR in the robotics section is not specifically defined as ether like normal AR or as like Nat AR. It is written as if the player already knows which it is. This is a fault that has been argued over in this forum before. I am not going to be a part of it if someone wants to start it up again here.

no technical reason? Bonus to strike from dex +8, from WP +6, from hth +6, superior quality wep +2, and from enchantments +4 for a grand total of 26 (and this doesnt even count additional buffs gained from a mage casting spells on you...) I would say thats a pretty good reason to allow AR to go higher...
And in HU I can get a first level char to at least a +25 without too much effort...

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

I'd say up to AR 19 would be the max for non-sealed armor. Once you hit twenty, the armor is full-proof, protecting the wearer until it is destroyed or otherwise compromised.

[Damian Magecraft]

I'd say up to AR 19 would be the max for non-sealed armor. Once you hit twenty, the armor is full-proof, protecting the wearer until it is destroyed or otherwise compromised.

With Natural AR, I'd stop it at 18 and start applying the robotic AR[IIRC, that's the one with minimum damage thresholds to affect the armor?].

robotic and natural AR are identical in mechanical effect.
If you do not roll over the AR no damage is applied.

[Damian Magecraft]

side note: If you use the stats as presented in the Weapons and Armor books... then the max becomes 22 (Maximilian Plate).
But those rules also issue AR in 4 numbers based upon the type damage it sustains. (more complex than most of my players prefer).

[drewkitty ~..~]

I can see no technical reason for having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls. [Note I am not disagreeing with TD, nor DM about it's max use in canon. Even though TD's example if from rifts.]

However, my opinion is that the absolute max AR a armor can have is 21. With a nat 20 still passing through the armor to the char wearing it, but not as a crit. strike damage. To be more effective the armor would need to have a Nat AR. Nat AR's would start at a score of 4.

The mechanics of a Nat. AR4 is the same concept as with Force Fields, if is hits it hits the armor, if the attack is misses, it misses. There is no hitting and bouncing off as is possible with higher Nat AR scores.

PS: I think the Nat.AR for armor is called Robotic AR *shrugs* The problem is that in HU2 the AR in the robotics section is not specifically defined as ether like normal AR or as like Nat AR. It is written as if the player already knows which it is. This is a fault that has been argued over in this forum before. I am not going to be a part of it if someone wants to start it up again here.

no technical reason? Bonus to strike from dex +8, from WP +6, from hth +6, superior quality wep +2, and from enchantments +4 for a grand total of 26 (and this doesnt even count additional buffs gained from a mage casting spells on you...) I would say thats a pretty good reason to allow AR to go higher...
And in HU I can get a first level char to at least a +25 without too much effort...

Err.... left out a word should read something like "I can see no technical reason for not having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls." In other words I see no reason to limit the AR to 19 and below.

[Lord_Dalgard]

Sealed AR has an AR 20? Ectoplasmic Bidet, I like that idea. I've always toyed with converting Rifts to SDC and the armor was always giving me headaches.

[Regularguy]

IS there such thing as MAX AR? Is 18 as much as one can get AR or is there possibility of having even bigger AR?

Shucks, HU itself lists Class 4 Armor as AR 17 -- and spells out that an Analytical Genius can increase the AR of such body armor by two points.

Err.... left out a word should read something like "I can see no technical reason for not having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls." In other words I see no reason to limit the AR to 19 and below.

It'd sure make things interesting for guys with Karmic Power.

[KillWatch]

Canon, I think its 19.
Stop reading now

ok so In my bastardized version I revamped AR.
If you use hit locations then the AR is pointless. He's wearing a vest, I hit in in the leg, what do you mean I didn't beat the AR?
Also I use AR to see if you damage the armor itself. If not, it is deflected or does no significant damage.
Something else that might make you wretch is that I use AR to figure out DR. AR-10=DR. AR 19=DR 9. You need to hit and do over 9 pts to do any damage, but that's for full body honkin suits. A vest, ar 14 will have a DR of 4, which will protect you from an average knife strike.
AR, any AR fall apart when you have Full body environmental armor if you go by the book and it goes through armor and hits you. If you take it as just hitting the armor, then fine. But AR by the book is based on D&D where the armor has no SDC, is infinite and you have to get by it to hurt someone, which I don't like but makes sense for the system. It doesn't when your armor can be damaged destroyed.

[KillWatch]

well nat 20 always hits any ar, and hits it hard

[Damian Magecraft]

well nat 20 always hits any ar, and hits it hard

this is true but the nat 20 only shows up 5% of the time...
so saying the top end can only be 19 is foolish as it ignores the effect of strike bonuses (which count for exceeding AR).
And as I have proven up thread a +26 is possible without too much difficulty. (higher in HU).

[Snake Eyes]

In the Robotics section of H.U, the A.R. for the pilot's compartment is 19........the super ability invulnerability is equal to A.R. 24

[Tor]

I've never seen an actual max given, but I've rarely seen them go past the teens in stats for items.

[eoptap]

I can see no technical reason for having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls. [Note I am not disagreeing with TD, nor DM about it's max use in canon. Even though TD's example if from rifts.]

However, my opinion is that the absolute max AR a armor can have is 21. With a nat 20 still passing through the armor to the char wearing it, but not as a crit. strike damage. To be more effective the armor would need to have a Nat AR. Nat AR's would start at a score of 4.

The mechanics of a Nat. AR4 is the same concept as with Force Fields, if is hits it hits the armor, if the attack is misses, it misses. There is no hitting and bouncing off as is possible with higher Nat AR scores.

PS: I think the Nat.AR for armor is called Robotic AR *shrugs* The problem is that in HU2 the AR in the robotics section is not specifically defined as ether like normal AR or as like Nat AR. It is written as if the player already knows which it is. This is a fault that has been argued over in this forum before. I am not going to be a part of it if someone wants to start it up again here.

[green.nova343]

I've never liked the division between body armor A.R. & "natural" A.R., as I've always felt it would be possible --especially with "hard" armor types -- to come up with a suit that would also be resistant to at least some initial damage. More importantly, from a game mechanics perspective, you start then getting into situations where characters who have 'natural" A.R. are then in the unenviable position of having to roll obscenely high parry/dodge rolls to avoid taking damage, when if the strike roll had just been a teeny bit lower they could have simply laughed at the attacker's "puny" efforts...but in the same situation, another character with standard body armor is forced to roll against the high strike roll because his armor is going to be penetrated, yet even slightly lower strike rolls don't help because he has to worry about his armor being shot into pieces (at which point it's worthless anyway).

Ideally, A.R. should only represent the coverage provided by armor: strike roll < A.R. = armor takes the hit, strike roll > A.R. = person wearing the armor takes the hit. All "natural A.R." descriptions should then ideally be rewritten as "Damage Resistance" or some other term that can be turned into a 2-letter acronym, and that number represents the minimum damage an attack has to do to have a chance of actually damaging the object (either as "ignore all damage below X", or as "subtract X from all attack damage rolls, all results of 0 or less doing no damage"). Weapons specifically designed to penetrate armor (i.e. armor-piercing rounds, APDSFS/DUAPDSFS rounds from an Abrams' 120mm main gun, etc.) would not affect A.R., but the effectiveness of a target's "damage resistance" would be reduced or eliminated by such attacks.

As for actual game mechanics, I've seen house rules in the past on the topic, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to adapt one of them.

[Iczer]

I can see no technical reason for having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls. [Note I am not disagreeing with TD, nor DM about it's max use in canon. Even though TD's example if from rifts.]

However, my opinion is that the absolute max AR a armor can have is 21. With a nat 20 still passing through the armor to the char wearing it, but not as a crit. strike damage. To be more effective the armor would need to have a Nat AR. Nat AR's would start at a score of 4.

The mechanics of a Nat. AR4 is the same concept as with Force Fields, if is hits it hits the armor, if the attack is misses, it misses. There is no hitting and bouncing off as is possible with higher Nat AR scores.

PS: I think the Nat.AR for armor is called Robotic AR *shrugs* The problem is that in HU2 the AR in the robotics section is not specifically defined as ether like normal AR or as like Nat AR. It is written as if the player already knows which it is. This is a fault that has been argued over in this forum before. I am not going to be a part of it if someone wants to start it up again here.

no technical reason? Bonus to strike from dex +8, from WP +6, from hth +6, superior quality wep +2, and from enchantments +4 for a grand total of 26 (and this doesnt even count additional buffs gained from a mage casting spells on you...) I would say thats a pretty good reason to allow AR to go higher...
And in HU I can get a first level char to at least a +25 without too much effort...

I am suspicious.

Batts

[Damian Magecraft]

I can see no technical reason for having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls. [Note I am not disagreeing with TD, nor DM about it's max use in canon. Even though TD's example if from rifts.]

However, my opinion is that the absolute max AR a armor can have is 21. With a nat 20 still passing through the armor to the char wearing it, but not as a crit. strike damage. To be more effective the armor would need to have a Nat AR. Nat AR's would start at a score of 4.

The mechanics of a Nat. AR4 is the same concept as with Force Fields, if is hits it hits the armor, if the attack is misses, it misses. There is no hitting and bouncing off as is possible with higher Nat AR scores.

PS: I think the Nat.AR for armor is called Robotic AR *shrugs* The problem is that in HU2 the AR in the robotics section is not specifically defined as ether like normal AR or as like Nat AR. It is written as if the player already knows which it is. This is a fault that has been argued over in this forum before. I am not going to be a part of it if someone wants to start it up again here.

no technical reason? Bonus to strike from dex +8, from WP +6, from hth +6, superior quality wep +2, and from enchantments +4 for a grand total of 26 (and this doesnt even count additional buffs gained from a mage casting spells on you...) I would say thats a pretty good reason to allow AR to go higher...
And in HU I can get a first level char to at least a +25 without too much effort...

I am suspicious.

Batts

Come on icezr.
You know HU better than most.
You can't come up with a power and skill combo that hits or exceeds +25 strike?

[Iczer]

I can see no technical reason for having a AR greater the 20 to counter mod'ed strike rolls. [Note I am not disagreeing with TD, nor DM about it's max use in canon. Even though TD's example if from rifts.]

However, my opinion is that the absolute max AR a armor can have is 21. With a nat 20 still passing through the armor to the char wearing it, but not as a crit. strike damage. To be more effective the armor would need to have a Nat AR. Nat AR's would start at a score of 4.

The mechanics of a Nat. AR4 is the same concept as with Force Fields, if is hits it hits the armor, if the attack is misses, it misses. There is no hitting and bouncing off as is possible with higher Nat AR scores.

PS: I think the Nat.AR for armor is called Robotic AR *shrugs* The problem is that in HU2 the AR in the robotics section is not specifically defined as ether like normal AR or as like Nat AR. It is written as if the player already knows which it is. This is a fault that has been argued over in this forum before. I am not going to be a part of it if someone wants to start it up again here.

no technical reason? Bonus to strike from dex +8, from WP +6, from hth +6, superior quality wep +2, and from enchantments +4 for a grand total of 26 (and this doesnt even count additional buffs gained from a mage casting spells on you...) I would say thats a pretty good reason to allow AR to go higher...
And in HU I can get a first level char to at least a +25 without too much effort...

I am suspicious.

Batts

Come on icezr.
You know HU better than most.
You can't come up with a power and skill combo that hits or exceeds +25 strike?

I could..but I don't know a GM that would allow it.

Batts

[Damian Magecraft]

Come on icezr.
You know HU better than most.
You can't come up with a power and skill combo that hits or exceeds +25 strike?

I could..but I don't know a GM that would allow it.

Batts

Really?
With just powers and stats I got a book legal +17. (never even looked past the core book)
I am fairly confident that with skills I can squeeze out another +8.

[NMI]

Eh, I only use the natural roll to strike to determine armor penetration. bonuses to strike come into play to see if one hits the target.
This has worked for my group of almost 15 yrs and has worked for several other groups I was in during that time. So "naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-"

[green.nova343]

I think there are some assumptions being made about those bonuses. First off, the only standard HTH skill that offers +6 strike is Assassin...which is limited to "evil" characters, and only gets that high at 15th level. Even Physical Training characters with their special variants only max out at +4 to +5...and then only at very high levels (i.e. 12th or higher). And while the Ancient Master starts off at reaches it the quickest (+6 by 9th level, +8 by 12th level), that's only because he starts off at 1st level with combat training equivalent to someone with HTH: Martial Arts at 15th level.

Note, as well, that while the Ancient Master & Physical Training can benefit from some of their automatic physical skills to boost their P.P. score, they don't have access to superpowers that provide them with additional bonuses.

So while you can build such a character with a very high strike bonus, I would be highly surprised if they were a "starting-level" character, or even "experienced", & would have to be of such high level that they work better as an "arch-boss' NPC for your players to fight against, not use in their fights.

[Damian Magecraft]

I think there are some assumptions being made about those bonuses. First off, the only standard HTH skill that offers +6 strike is Assassin...which is limited to "evil" characters, and only gets that high at 15th level. Even Physical Training characters with their special variants only max out at +4 to +5...and then only at very high levels (i.e. 12th or higher). And while the Ancient Master starts off at reaches it the quickest (+6 by 9th level, +8 by 12th level), that's only because he starts off at 1st level with combat training equivalent to someone with HTH: Martial Arts at 15th level.

Note, as well, that while the Ancient Master & Physical Training can benefit from some of their automatic physical skills to boost their P.P. score, they don't have access to superpowers that provide them with additional bonuses.

So while you can build such a character with a very high strike bonus, I would be highly surprised if they were a "starting-level" character, or even "experienced", & would have to be of such high level that they work better as an "arch-boss' NPC for your players to fight against, not use in their fights.

no... I am pretty sure I could build a book legal level one hero with a bonus to strike high enough to render armor moot.

[Iczer]

Come on icezr.
You know HU better than most.
You can't come up with a power and skill combo that hits or exceeds +25 strike?

I could..but I don't know a GM that would allow it.

Batts

Really?
With just powers and stats I got a book legal +17. (never even looked past the core book)
I am fairly confident that with skills I can squeeze out another +8.

I think my point is rather the fact that one needs to use the highlighted word. Anyone trying that hard, probably isn't playing the same game as everyone else.

Though I have a genuine curiosity as to how you achieve this strike bonus.

Batts

[green.nova343]

I think there are some assumptions being made about those bonuses. First off, the only standard HTH skill that offers +6 strike is Assassin...which is limited to "evil" characters, and only gets that high at 15th level. Even Physical Training characters with their special variants only max out at +4 to +5...and then only at very high levels (i.e. 12th or higher). And while the Ancient Master starts off at reaches it the quickest (+6 by 9th level, +8 by 12th level), that's only because he starts off at 1st level with combat training equivalent to someone with HTH: Martial Arts at 15th level.

Note, as well, that while the Ancient Master & Physical Training can benefit from some of their automatic physical skills to boost their P.P. score, they don't have access to superpowers that provide them with additional bonuses.

So while you can build such a character with a very high strike bonus, I would be highly surprised if they were a "starting-level" character, or even "experienced", & would have to be of such high level that they work better as an "arch-boss' NPC for your players to fight against, not use in their fights.

no... I am pretty sure I could build a book legal level one hero with a bonus to strike high enough to render armor moot.

I'm not 100% sure that it can be really be done, though, or at least to allow for an effective attack to get through A.R.

Part of the problem is the nature of the bonuses themselves. While quite a few of the APS and Control Element powers provide a hefty +3 or +4 strike bonus, it's for a particular attack, one which may not be particularly powerful (1d6 or 2d6 S.D.C. is about comparable to a 9mm Parabellum pistol round). A similar situation arises from the Speed-based powers: you get that particular bonus when using that power, but it doesn't stack with the other powers. Taking Extraordinary Speed & Sonic Speed doesn't stack, because Sonic is faster, so it trumps the lower one. Sonic Flight is faster than Flight: Winged or Wingless, so it again trumps but doesn't stack. And you can't stack Extraordinary Speed with Flight: Wingless: the latter only applies when flying, & the former is only applying because you're using your legs on the ground. So at best, boosted speed gives you +2. Growth gives you a bonus if you're over 20ft tall... but logically I think we can assume it's because your feet/hands are larger than normal, not because you're so much more accurate, which would also mean that it doesn't apply to superpowers or ranged weapons. Extraordinary PP boosts your PP score...but the strike bonus maxes out at PP 30, & only applies to HTH attacks & superpowers (no ranged attacks).

That leaves you with Karmic Power (+2 strike, as long as it's a good cause), Underwater Abilities (+1, +2 strike underwater), & Radar (+2 strike, as long as weather conditions don't blind you).

Now, if you pick those 3 powers I just mentioned with Extraordinary PP (with PP 30+), and you take HTH: Assassin (which requires an evil alignment), then you can get a 1st level character with a +17 strike (+18 in the water)...but that's only good for punches (1d4 SDC) and kicks (1d6 SDC). Ancient weapons can maybe add a +1 to that, but you're still not talking about a lot of damage (maybe 2d6 SDC tops). Modern weapons offer much better damage... but the character would have much lower bonuses (+3 aimed for his W.P., maybe +4 for Karmic Power & Radar, not sure if the +1/+2 from Underwater Abilities would apply), only +7, maybe +8/+9 tops. While that gives you a decent chance to penetrate body armor, it's nowhere near a definitive armor killer. And that's with the old-style W.P. skills; with the newer RUE/BTS2/Shadow Chronicles WP skills, your aimed shot goes down to +1, with careful aim/called shots requiring 2 actions & a carefully aimed shot requiring 3 (careful aim gets you another +2).

So, while it's doable, the benefit isn't as great as you'd think.

[Damian Magecraft]

I think there are some assumptions being made about those bonuses. First off, the only standard HTH skill that offers +6 strike is Assassin...which is limited to "evil" characters, and only gets that high at 15th level. Even Physical Training characters with their special variants only max out at +4 to +5...and then only at very high levels (i.e. 12th or higher). And while the Ancient Master starts off at reaches it the quickest (+6 by 9th level, +8 by 12th level), that's only because he starts off at 1st level with combat training equivalent to someone with HTH: Martial Arts at 15th level.

Note, as well, that while the Ancient Master & Physical Training can benefit from some of their automatic physical skills to boost their P.P. score, they don't have access to superpowers that provide them with additional bonuses.

So while you can build such a character with a very high strike bonus, I would be highly surprised if they were a "starting-level" character, or even "experienced", & would have to be of such high level that they work better as an "arch-boss' NPC for your players to fight against, not use in their fights.

no... I am pretty sure I could build a book legal level one hero with a bonus to strike high enough to render armor moot.

I'm not 100% sure that it can be really be done, though, or at least to allow for an effective attack to get through A.R.

Part of the problem is the nature of the bonuses themselves. While quite a few of the APS and Control Element powers provide a hefty +3 or +4 strike bonus, it's for a particular attack, one which may not be particularly powerful (1d6 or 2d6 S.D.C. is about comparable to a 9mm Parabellum pistol round). A similar situation arises from the Speed-based powers: you get that particular bonus when using that power, but it doesn't stack with the other powers. Taking Extraordinary Speed & Sonic Speed doesn't stack, because Sonic is faster, so it trumps the lower one. Sonic Flight is faster than Flight: Winged or Wingless, so it again trumps but doesn't stack. And you can't stack Extraordinary Speed with Flight: Wingless: the latter only applies when flying, & the former is only applying because you're using your legs on the ground. So at best, boosted speed gives you +2. Growth gives you a bonus if you're over 20ft tall... but logically I think we can assume it's because your feet/hands are larger than normal, not because you're so much more accurate, which would also mean that it doesn't apply to superpowers or ranged weapons. Extraordinary PP boosts your PP score...but the strike bonus maxes out at PP 30, & only applies to HTH attacks & superpowers (no ranged attacks).

That leaves you with Karmic Power (+2 strike, as long as it's a good cause), Underwater Abilities (+1, +2 strike underwater), & Radar (+2 strike, as long as weather conditions don't blind you).

Now, if you pick those 3 powers I just mentioned with Extraordinary PP (with PP 30+), and you take HTH: Assassin (which requires an evil alignment), then you can get a 1st level character with a +17 strike (+18 in the water)...but that's only good for punches (1d4 SDC) and kicks (1d6 SDC). Ancient weapons can maybe add a +1 to that, but you're still not talking about a lot of damage (maybe 2d6 SDC tops). Modern weapons offer much better damage... but the character would have much lower bonuses (+3 aimed for his W.P., maybe +4 for Karmic Power & Radar, not sure if the +1/+2 from Underwater Abilities would apply), only +7, maybe +8/+9 tops. While that gives you a decent chance to penetrate body armor, it's nowhere near a definitive armor killer. And that's with the old-style W.P. skills; with the newer RUE/BTS2/Shadow Chronicles WP skills, your aimed shot goes down to +1, with careful aim/called shots requiring 2 actions & a carefully aimed shot requiring 3 (careful aim gets you another +2).

So, while it's doable, the benefit isn't as great as you'd think.

benefit is greater than you think... Unless the armor is natural any roll with bonuses over ignores the armor and damages the being underneath. According to RAW.

[say652]

since bonus to strike does apply i cant think of why there should be a max to AR. there isnt a max to strike and since a natural 20 always hits doesnt really matter. more to the point why not just have a supernatural type character that can only be hurt by certain types of damage i.e. silver or wood or from the back of the original rifts book energy only.

[Regularguy]

That leaves you with Karmic Power (+2 strike, as long as it's a good cause), Underwater Abilities (+1, +2 strike underwater), & Radar (+2 strike, as long as weather conditions don't blind you).

Now, if you pick those 3 powers I just mentioned with Extraordinary PP (with PP 30+), and you take HTH: Assassin (which requires an evil alignment)

If it requires an evil alignment, how are you combining it with Karmic Power?

[SittingBull]

Eh, I only use the natural roll to strike to determine armor penetration. bonuses to strike come into play to see if one hits the target.
This has worked for my group of almost 15 yrs and has worked for several other groups I was in during that time. So "naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-naner-"

Good idea.

[Tor]

robotic and natural AR are identical in mechanical effect. If you do not roll over the AR no damage is applied.

It's so easy to forget about robots having this aspect to them. I usually think of robots as jokes, the ones in Century Station an afterthought...

That said, 3/4 of the robots piloted in Century Station somehow have SUPERNATURAL strength.

Something is off with that Hardware guy who built those things. Something not natural.

you take HTH: Assassin (which requires an evil alignment)

If it requires an evil alignment, how are you combining it with Karmic Power?

Nothing preventing an evil guy who learns Assassin from switching to good alignment later Or does it say good people won't use it? I always found that silly and possible to disregard. There's nothing 'evil' about having lots of attacks and strike bonuses. Some of the attacks maybe, but even a Martial Artist can get death blows later even if HthA specializes in'm.

[say652]

some characters are allowed to learn a hand to hand choice. others like the body fixer can learn hand to hand assassin four 4 skills. makes sense to me **** of a dr he probably knows where to cut you.

[Armorlord]

I could swear I've seen a ruling that said full EBA gear was effectively AR 20 in SDC settings.
Which is to say that on fully-covering suits, you can't actually bypass them completely.

[Damian Magecraft]

I could swear I've seen a ruling that said full EBA gear was effectively AR 20 in SDC settings.
Which is to say that on fully-covering suits, you can't actually bypass them completely.

Incorrect.
RAW says if your roll plus bonuses exceeds the AR you bypass the armor.

[Damian Magecraft]

I think there are some assumptions being made about those bonuses. First off, the only standard HTH skill that offers +6 strike is Assassin...which is limited to "evil" characters, and only gets that high at 15th level. Even Physical Training characters with their special variants only max out at +4 to +5...and then only at very high levels (i.e. 12th or higher). And while the Ancient Master starts off at reaches it the quickest (+6 by 9th level, +8 by 12th level), that's only because he starts off at 1st level with combat training equivalent to someone with HTH: Martial Arts at 15th level.

Note, as well, that while the Ancient Master & Physical Training can benefit from some of their automatic physical skills to boost their P.P. score, they don't have access to superpowers that provide them with additional bonuses.

So while you can build such a character with a very high strike bonus, I would be highly surprised if they were a "starting-level" character, or even "experienced", & would have to be of such high level that they work better as an "arch-boss' NPC for your players to fight against, not use in their fights.

no... I am pretty sure I could build a book legal level one hero with a bonus to strike high enough to render armor moot.

most good gms that know the system can the point is whats the max ar..

Already answered above...
19
Or 21 after special abilities of certain classes is applied.