1st ed question on Parry

[zyanitevp]

In the rules it says that parry is automatic for Men At Arms. Later, I believe I read a part that mentions that non MAA must declare that they will parry beforehand. My question is this- is the auto parry for MAA in addition to their number of attacks, or does it just give them the ability to convert an attack into a parry at on the fly while other classes have to choose beforehand?

Thanks!

My standard answer is the one Kevin told me- Whatever the GM decides...

[JuliusCreed]

If memory serves, 1st edition rules for Men of Magic in combat was that unless the Hand to Hand: Non Men of Arms skill was selected, both dodging and parrying used up an attack. If he didn't take the skill, the caster was in trouble in a fight because defending himself used up his actions fast. Of course, this also forced most Men of Magic to hook up with a few fighter types to defend him from harm. Casters that took the Hand to Hand skill still lost an action to dodge, but were at least trained well enough in Hand to Hand to gain the Auto Parry ability.

[The Dark Elf]

If memory serves, 1st edition rules for Men of Magic in combat was that unless the Hand to Hand: Non Men of Arms skill was selected, both dodging and parrying used up an attack. If he didn't take the skill, the caster was in trouble in a fight because defending himself used up his actions fast. Of course, this also forced most Men of Magic to hook up with a few fighter types to defend him from harm. Casters that took the Hand to Hand skill still lost an action to dodge, but were at least trained well enough in Hand to Hand to gain the Auto Parry ability.

This

[JuliusCreed]

If memory serves, 1st edition rules for Men of Magic in combat was that unless the Hand to Hand: Non Men of Arms skill was selected, both dodging and parrying used up an attack. If he didn't take the skill, the caster was in trouble in a fight because defending himself used up his actions fast. Of course, this also forced most Men of Magic to hook up with a few fighter types to defend him from harm. Casters that took the Hand to Hand skill still lost an action to dodge, but were at least trained well enough in Hand to Hand to gain the Auto Parry ability.

I don't mean to come across as dense, but does that mean that a Man At Arms occ gets unlimited parries against incoming attacks? Let's say a 2nd level soldier (with 2 attacks) is facing off against 4 attackers. All four attack the soldier- he gets 4 auto parries against them? Is there a limit to the amount of parries that can be performed in a melee? Or would it be a 2nd level soldier with 2 attacks a melee can have up to 2 auto parries per melee in addition to their attacks?

I really appreciate everyone helping me out with this.

*Edit- I see that the amount of parries is limited to how many foes are in your line of sight.

Mostly correct... going by 1st edition rules, anyone with a Hand to Hand Combat skill, including Non-Men of Arms (Wizards, Warlocks, Priests, Druids, etc.) who take the HtH Non-Men of Arms skill, get unlimited auto parries against any attacks they are aware of. Men of Arms and trained Non-Men of Arms with the NMoAHtH skill also still use up attacks when Dodging.

Examples to clarify...
2nd level soldier with 2 attacks faces off against 4 attackers... all 4 attack... soldier may attemt to parry all 4 of them and still be able to attack.

2nd level Wizard with HtH Non Men of Arms has 2 attacks. He faces off against 4 attackers... all 4 attack... Wizard with HtH skill may attempt to parry all 4 of them and still be able to attack.

2nd level Priest with NO HtH skill has 2 attacks and faces off against 4 attackers... all 4 attack... Priest may parry up to 2 of them before running out of attacks because parrying without a HtH skill uses his attacks... Priest then gets whacked on the head by the remaining two attackers and is most likely hurting pretty bad unless he's wearing some pretty strong armor.

Yes, I realize my numbers are horribly inaccurate... 2nd level skill in HtH Non-Men of Arms would only have one attack as would any character without any HtH skill, and of course, all of this assumes that our example characters are aware of all 4 of the incoming attacks, but the analogy is accurate and hopefully sound enough to clarify everything for you

Good luck and great gaming!

[tmbn]

If memory serves, 1st edition rules for Men of Magic in combat was that unless the Hand to Hand: Non Men of Arms skill was selected, both dodging and parrying used up an attack. If he didn't take the skill, the caster was in trouble in a fight because defending himself used up his actions fast. Of course, this also forced most Men of Magic to hook up with a few fighter types to defend him from harm. Casters that took the Hand to Hand skill still lost an action to dodge, but were at least trained well enough in Hand to Hand to gain the Auto Parry ability.

This

No. You always will get 1 parry. You will not loose any attacks when you parry.

You throw parry just one time against the hits in one melee round. But that one parry will parry all the below hits. 4 attacks on you will be DICE: 18, 13, 14 and 8. Say you hit parry with dice: 15. Then you will parry hit 13, 14 and 8. You will not parry 18 and get the damage from that hit.

You only hit the dice once at parry and dodge. When attacking you hit the dice as many times you have attacks per melee.

First you both hit the Dice for initiative. The one attacker that hits the highest start the battle first round.

The attacker hits his dice several times acording to attacks per melee. Say he have 2 attacks per melee, then he rolls the dice 2 times.

Then you parry, with rolling the dice 1 time to determine how many attacks you parry. (same with dodge). If you dont parry all, you will get damage from the hits that went inn.

Then you can attack with youre number of attacks per melee. You roll the dice as many times you have attacks.

Then youre attacker can parry your hits with rolling parry 1 time. If his parry is higher than your attacks, you will not damage him.

Next round..... so on...





As a GM you need to adjust where this hits are comming from. Are some of those hits comming from back or sides, you will not be able to parry at all. Then the character can choose to dodge, but will loose his next round.

When being Non-men of arms. You must always call the parry before the attacker hit. If you have not called the parry, you will loose your parry. This is a little bit strange rule. But as an GM (to make it easy), you can just make everybody get automatic parry. That would make youre life easier.

[JuliusCreed]

If memory serves, 1st edition rules for Men of Magic in combat was that unless the Hand to Hand: Non Men of Arms skill was selected, both dodging and parrying used up an attack. If he didn't take the skill, the caster was in trouble in a fight because defending himself used up his actions fast. Of course, this also forced most Men of Magic to hook up with a few fighter types to defend him from harm. Casters that took the Hand to Hand skill still lost an action to dodge, but were at least trained well enough in Hand to Hand to gain the Auto Parry ability.

This

No. You always will get 1 parry. You will not loose any attacks when you parry.

You throw parry just one time against the hits in one melee round. But that one parry will parry all the below hits. 4 attacks on you will be DICE: 18, 13, 14 and 8. Say you hit parry with dice: 15. Then you will parry hit 13, 14 and 8. You will not parry 18 and get the damage from that hit.

As a GM you need to adjust where this hits are comming from. Are some of those hits comming from back or sides, you will not be able to parry at all. Then the character can choose to dodge, but will loose his next round.

When being Non-men of arms. You must always call the parry before the attacker hit. If you have not called the parry, you will loose your parry. This is a little bit strange rule. But as an GM (to make it easy), you can just make everybody get automatic parry. That would make youre life easier.

This sounds more like the Multiple Dodge rules from N&S. Might want to check your books again, JIC.

[tmbn]

If memory serves, 1st edition rules for Men of Magic in combat was that unless the Hand to Hand: Non Men of Arms skill was selected, both dodging and parrying used up an attack. If he didn't take the skill, the caster was in trouble in a fight because defending himself used up his actions fast. Of course, this also forced most Men of Magic to hook up with a few fighter types to defend him from harm. Casters that took the Hand to Hand skill still lost an action to dodge, but were at least trained well enough in Hand to Hand to gain the Auto Parry ability.

This

No. You always will get 1 parry. You will not loose any attacks when you parry.

You throw parry just one time against the hits in one melee round. But that one parry will parry all the below hits. 4 attacks on you will be DICE: 18, 13, 14 and 8. Say you hit parry with dice: 15. Then you will parry hit 13, 14 and 8. You will not parry 18 and get the damage from that hit.

As a GM you need to adjust where this hits are comming from. Are some of those hits comming from back or sides, you will not be able to parry at all. Then the character can choose to dodge, but will loose his next round.

When being Non-men of arms. You must always call the parry before the attacker hit. If you have not called the parry, you will loose your parry. This is a little bit strange rule. But as an GM (to make it easy), you can just make everybody get automatic parry. That would make youre life easier.

This sounds more like the Multiple Dodge rules from N&S. Might want to check your books again, JIC.

Yes. I know the book. Read it 100 times. If you choose to dodge you will loose youre next strike. Thats the difference. The book does not explain the parry role very good, but this is logic.

Also, I missed to say, that if a non-men of arms choose to parry. He will loose his next strike. To prevent the lost of an attack the non-fighter must hold his ground, taking any damage from the attack, and then st ri king back.

[JuliusCreed]

If memory serves, 1st edition rules for Men of Magic in combat was that unless the Hand to Hand: Non Men of Arms skill was selected, both dodging and parrying used up an attack. If he didn't take the skill, the caster was in trouble in a fight because defending himself used up his actions fast. Of course, this also forced most Men of Magic to hook up with a few fighter types to defend him from harm. Casters that took the Hand to Hand skill still lost an action to dodge, but were at least trained well enough in Hand to Hand to gain the Auto Parry ability.

This

No. You always will get 1 parry. You will not loose any attacks when you parry.

You throw parry just one time against the hits in one melee round. But that one parry will parry all the below hits. 4 attacks on you will be DICE: 18, 13, 14 and 8. Say you hit parry with dice: 15. Then you will parry hit 13, 14 and 8. You will not parry 18 and get the damage from that hit.

As a GM you need to adjust where this hits are comming from. Are some of those hits comming from back or sides, you will not be able to parry at all. Then the character can choose to dodge, but will loose his next round.

When being Non-men of arms. You must always call the parry before the attacker hit. If you have not called the parry, you will loose your parry. This is a little bit strange rule. But as an GM (to make it easy), you can just make everybody get automatic parry. That would make youre life easier.

This sounds more like the Multiple Dodge rules from N&S. Might want to check your books again, JIC.

Yes. I know the book. Read it 100 times. If you choose to dodge you will loose youre next strike. Thats the difference. The book does not explain the parry role very good, but this is logic.

Also, I missed to say, that if a non-men of arms choose to parry. He will loose his next strike. To prevent the lost of an attack the non-fighter must hold his ground, taking any damage from the attack, and then st ri king back.

Actually, it's this part that sounds like the Multiple Dodge. I realize I'm digging into a completely different book for clarifying the Parry rules here, but...

... Unlike the Dodge roll, each and every Parry must be rolled seperately. If the character is attacked four times in a single melee round attack, then the Parry must be rolled four times...

Not sure about anyone else, but I believe that's how the Automatic Parry, common to any character trained in a Hand to Hand Combat style or specific Martial Arts form, works in any part of the Palladium games.
On the plus side, you are correct about a non-man of arms burning an attack in order to parry. Again, however, this ONLY applies if the non man of arms has NOT taken any form of Hand to Hand Combat skill, whether it be any of the standardized HtH Combat skills, a specific Martial Art form or, if you're playing with a 1st edition set of rules, Hand to Hand Non Men of Arms.

[The Dark Elf]

Attacker rolls to strike, defender rolls to parry. Rinse n repeat each time is how I play it.

We announce the attack then make the player call a parry or dodge/flip/entangle/disarm or whatever before either roll is made.

One thing I have just thought of that we do - if the player says he'll dodge but the attacker rolls a miss; we DONT make the player lose an attack dodging. Should we? IYO's? It's one of the "game against reality" issues.

[tmbn]

... Unlike the Dodge roll, each and every Parry must be rolled seperately. If the character is attacked four times in a single melee round attack, then the Parry must be rolled four times...

Yes. This is from another book. Not Fantasy 1ed as you stated. The rules says nothing about this in the Fantasy book. I havnet checked yet but maybe there are some add on information on this in Timoro or High seas books. Still I belive parrying rolling dice 1 time as dodge is the way to go. You will save a lot off rolls and make the battles go a little faster. It just seems more right to have it like dodge, execpt you wont miss youre next strike.

[tmbn]

Attacker rolls to strike, defender rolls to parry. Rinse n repeat each time is how I play it.

We announce the attack then make the player call a parry or dodge/flip/entangle/disarm or whatever before either roll is made.

One thing I have just thought of that we do - if the player says he'll dodge but the attacker rolls a miss; we DONT make the player lose an attack dodging. Should we? IYO's? It's one of the "game against reality" issues.

Yes. On dodge he will loose the attack anyhow. But is it a sucessfull dodge the player can attack the NPC again. Then you must roll a new initiative again. The player wont know if the person is going to miss or not.

From the book:

To dodge, the player must announce that he is dodging and forfeits
his next attack regardless of whether the dodge was successful or not.

[The Dark Elf]

To dodge, the player must announce that he is dodging and forfeits
his next attack regardless of whether the dodge was successful or not.

We already use that rule.

[JuliusCreed]

Attacker rolls to strike, defender rolls to parry. Rinse n repeat each time is how I play it.

We announce the attack then make the player call a parry or dodge/flip/entangle/disarm or whatever before either roll is made.

One thing I have just thought of that we do - if the player says he'll dodge but the attacker rolls a miss; we DONT make the player lose an attack dodging. Should we? IYO's? It's one of the "game against reality" issues.

Personally, if the attack against a target is a miss, ie a roll of 4 or less, I just tell the defender the swing was wide, high, short, etc. describing it as a miss in whatever way seems appropriate and skip the roll to defend entirely. Why waste the time rolling dice against a strike roll that isn't going to hit anyway? Just move along with the fight.