What happens after the Minion War?

[Cyber-Knight]

There's a certain amount of special bitterness reserved for female narrators in stories. This has been the case ever since Charlotte Bronte wrote the words "Reader, I married him," in Jane Eyre.

*looks around*

Have you seen where you're posting? Do you know what sort of audience you have for your posts? Most of the people here have never even heard of Charlotte Bronte.

It isn't the fact that Erin Tarn is a woman that makes disliking her misandry. It's the fact that she's the woman telling the story, and that somehow, that makes her perception naturally skewed that makes disliking her misandry.

*cough*

"Misandry ( /mɪˈsændri/) is the hatred or dislike of men or boys."

I'm pretty sure, though, that people disliking Erin Tarn isn't misogyny on their part. I'm sure if the character were male the same people would still have a problem with the character, because the issues they have with her isn't related to her gender.

The thing that no one really understands about this is that Erin Tarn doesn't tell stories for her own benefit.

Erin Tarn tells stories to save the world.

And I think you just hit the nail on the head on why some people hate her.

[Balabanto]

There's a certain amount of special bitterness reserved for female narrators in stories. This has been the case ever since Charlotte Bronte wrote the words "Reader, I married him," in Jane Eyre.

*looks around*

Have you seen where you're posting? Do you know what sort of audience you have for your posts? Most of the people here have never even heard of Charlotte Bronte.

It isn't the fact that Erin Tarn is a woman that makes disliking her misandry. It's the fact that she's the woman telling the story, and that somehow, that makes her perception naturally skewed that makes disliking her misandry.

*cough*

"Misandry ( /mɪˈsændri/) is the hatred or dislike of men or boys."

I'm pretty sure, though, that people disliking Erin Tarn isn't misogyny on their part. I'm sure if the character were male the same people would still have a problem with the character, because the issues they have with her isn't related to her gender.

The thing that no one really understands about this is that Erin Tarn doesn't tell stories for her own benefit.

Erin Tarn tells stories to save the world.

And I think you just hit the nail on the head on why some people hate her.

The misogyny thing was my error. I apologize.

[DhAkael]

there is no true nation, the Shemarrians will not visibly suffer (as Archie will rebuild the lost Shemarrians)

Not QUITE accurate
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2003620#p2003620
Trust me; they will have a MUCH bigger part to play than most would think.
Although this is non-canon / "Not approved by Kevin 'I am GOD here' Siembiada"


---------
Let's remain respectful of the gentleman who gives us this forum. There's no reason to deride him. ~ Mack

Well, I choose not to incorporate that thread into my thoughts as it is not canon. I take from canon and then I think from that. AND FYI, i think those E-Shemarrians or what they are called are not fun, so I choose to ignore that thread all together.

Hey *shrug* your sandbox your game.
Personally (even though yes I am a contributor) I think it is one of the more original takes on the Shemarrain concept; taking it BEYOND the toaster and is very MUCH fun (and Josh seems to agree; you know the person who WROTE Shemarrian Nation?). Apples and oranges.
If you want to constrain yourself to canon, by ALL Means please do...

[Balabanto]

You can't really "Lure" the Lord of the Deep without becoming his spawn and/or victim. Let's call him what he really is:

"Cthulhu for Rifts."

Now, any engagement of such beings on a metalevel usually results in madness, insanity, death, and being called into the ocean by weird piping music. People who do this are either A) Doomed, or B) Screwballs.

I'd also like to point out that Cthulhu is in the public domain now. You don't need to hide him behind a veneer of some other fish/squid demon god.

Now, let's talk about Nxla

The thing I hate about Nxla is that even Duncson, the Lords of Magic, and Psyscape would ALL ally to get rid of him, it's written into his description, and it's been multiple years since he came into existence. And no one knows about the existence of the two mile high tower of souls and flesh? This thing can be seen from 100 miles away. He's as tall as the frigging Appalachians! SOMEONE would notice this and go kill him.

Every so often I run a Soul Harvester scenario, just to impress upon people just how DANGEROUS Nxla is. All it requires is one hidden guy to be a Soul Harvester. This is the real problem. Killing Nxla doesn't get rid of the Harvesters. Granted, it gives the Earth 101 years of freedom to find the Harvesters and get rid of them, but that won't be easy.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

What happens??? everyone goes to the ice cream social!!!

[The Galactus Kid]

I'd like to see a book about a civil-war in the NGR

I hope not. It could be the end of the NGR!

Why would there be a civil war in the NGR? They are probably the most civilized people on Rifts Earth and are huge proponents of actual political discourse. A LOT would have to go wrong before that would become even a slight option.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'd like to see a book about a civil-war in the NGR

I hope not. It could be the end of the NGR!

Why would there be a civil war in the NGR? They are probably the most civilized people on Rifts Earth and are huge proponents of actual political discourse. A LOT would have to go wrong before that would become even a slight option.

Bull ,the imagine tinkle market would collapse and you know it!!!

[taalismn]

[Well, I choose not to incorporate that thread into my thoughts as it is not canon. I take from canon and then I think from that. AND FYI, i think those E-Shemarrians or what they are called are not fun, so I choose to ignore that thread all together.

That thread is ALSO available to anybody who wants to contribute CANONICALLY EVIL Shemarrians and similar ideas...it's just that the EShemar idea has an obsessive social misfit(and company) cranking away late nights on it to the execption of things like sleep and proper nutrition.
In fact I encourage other contributors(albeit with the understanding that any good ideas they have, I may just use, while posting the appropriate credits for the original work) to enlarge the Grand High Toaster's arsenal and give the greater ARCHIE-3/Shemarrian fan-base more to play with.

[DhAkael]

I'd like to see a book about a civil-war in the NGR

I hope not. It could be the end of the NGR!

Why would there be a civil war in the NGR? They are probably the most civilized people on Rifts Earth and are huge proponents of actual political discourse. A LOT would have to go wrong before that would become even a slight option.

Seriously; the NGR are the only real true "GOOD GUYS" in the entire Rifts-Earth 'great polities'.
They have their flaws, no question, but all in all they at least were POLITE when segregating their non-humans from the general populace, and are at least willing to listen to protests (as long as they don't get violent; in which case jack boots ARE used).
The other "GOOD GUYS", yes, would have to be Lazlo. Even then they are rather insular; they have no trouble helping people coming to them, but tend (in canon at least) not to do much for anyone OUTSIDE their borders.

[Mack]

I see it as it was the first time a large number of non-xiticix did a non-violent
trespass in xiticix held territory, which might have just baffled xiticix
leadership too

Thats not how Xitixic operate being "Baffled" they do not get baffled they attack.

And again the book implicitly states, anything larger then a Group sized movement of
beings would elicit total death for the tresspassing beings.

Let's be accurate: No one had ever tried moving a large turtled-up formation through Xiticix territory either.

Did Holmes' trek lack verisimilitude? Yes. Was it completely against canon? Not exactly.

[DhAkael]

"Internet trolls learn manners. Republicans and Democrats live in harmony. Day becomes night and night becomes day....dogs and cats living together. MASS HYSTERIA!"
Yeah.
The minion war; [censored] be gettin' real.

[taalismn]

"Internet trolls learn manners. Republicans and Democrats live in harmony. Day becomes night and night becomes day....dogs and cats living together. MASS HYSTERIA!"
Yeah.
The minion war; [censored] be gettin' real.

Well ,yes, bad memories of the Blue Line Demon days when CHAOS and EVIL ruled. Compared to demons and devyls, Splugorth start looking attractive(though not by much).

[flatline]

Atlantis: initial attacks against Atlantis are small and aimed at destroying pyramids. Loss of life is minimal at first, but the destruction of pyramids causes mass chaos as ley line storms run rampant and random rifts appear within the heart of the continent. This is followed by several waves of attacks, leaving Atlantis intact, but with broken infrastructure and high body count. No longer a tourist attraction and the dimensional market can't reopen until the ley lines are brought under control again.

North America: Much to everyone's surprise, the demonic forces target and completely overrun LoneStar. At the same time, powerful magics are used to control several of the bug hives in the north, making them puppets to attack Lazlo, FQ, and chi-town and to prevent non-controlled hives from interfering. The cowards in Dwoemer mostly stay out of things and are largly unharmed although their forces are diminished from the efforts to prevent demons from finding them. The FoM initially allies with the invaders, but ends up being used and at the end is shattered. In the end, the state of LoneStar is retained by the demons, CS retains Chi-town and two other megacities. The other megacities are destroyed and the surrounding areas aren't currently held by anyone. FQ is largely untouched.

Europe: Deevil forces invade, assume control of the evil Millenium tree in Germany. Mount attacks against the gargoyles and NGR. Completely hold the British Isles (camelot is toast!) but are unable to successfully cross the pond because of Atlantis efforts, FQ, CS Navy, and the demonic forces already in NA.

The real fight between the demons and deevils happens in Africa. Demon mass forces on the west coast, Deevils come in through Egypt after smashing through the Gargoyle empire.

That would shake up the world some such that player characters could make a difference in NA again, remove annoying powers (Camelot and Egypt), and reset power levels across the globe.

--flatline

[taalismn]

Lord Dunscon is powered up and allowed to lead a demonic attack on Chi-Town that results in him standing atop the blasted and savaged arcology, surveying the massive firefights taking place in the 'burbs below.
However, just he thinks he's about to crush the Coalition and slaughter everybody in the city, the demons withdraw their support, revealing that they used him and his followers as a distraction to hit more important targets, such as the various Black Vaults. The demons' parting words are something to the effect of 'we promised you that you would stand atop the burning battlements of your enemy's capital, not that you'd be able to RULE it' or some other such cleverly exploited weaseling out of Dunscon's verbal contract. Dunscon discovers that his demonic power-up is only temporary, and inflicts a massive toll on his body, leaving him virtually powerless and paralyzed as CS reinforcements(including hastily armed 'burb militia brigades) counter-attack and storm the arcology.
Dunscon's last sight is of CS officer boots walking up to him before he's shot to death like an animal.

[PhellaOne]

Lord Dunscon is powered up and allowed to lead a demonic attack on Chi-Town that results in him standing atop the blasted and savaged arcology, surveying the massive firefights taking place in the 'burbs below.
However, just he thinks he's about to crush the Coalition and slaughter everybody in the city, the demons withdraw their support, revealing that they used him and his followers as a distraction to hit more important targets, such as the various Black Vaults. The demons' parting words are something to the effect of 'we promised you that you would stand atop the burning battlements of your enemy's capital, not that you'd be able to RULE it' or some other such cleverly exploited weaseling out of Dunscon's verbal contract. Dunscon discovers that his demonic power-up is only temporary, and inflicts a massive toll on his body, leaving him virtually powerless and paralyzed as CS reinforcements(including hastily armed 'burb militia brigades) counter-attack and storm the arcology.
Dunscon's last sight is of CS officer boots walking up to him before he's shot to death like an animal.

Hmmmm...
This would be interesting. I don't think it'll happen, but it would be pretty cool if it did.
Almost hits the "reset button" on North America...

[Icefalcon]

Lord Dunscon is powered up and allowed to lead a demonic attack on Chi-Town that results in him standing atop the blasted and savaged arcology, surveying the massive firefights taking place in the 'burbs below.
However, just he thinks he's about to crush the Coalition and slaughter everybody in the city, the demons withdraw their support, revealing that they used him and his followers as a distraction to hit more important targets, such as the various Black Vaults. The demons' parting words are something to the effect of 'we promised you that you would stand atop the burning battlements of your enemy's capital, not that you'd be able to RULE it' or some other such cleverly exploited weaseling out of Dunscon's verbal contract. Dunscon discovers that his demonic power-up is only temporary, and inflicts a massive toll on his body, leaving him virtually powerless and paralyzed as CS reinforcements(including hastily armed 'burb militia brigades) counter-attack and storm the arcology.
Dunscon's last sight is of CS officer boots walking up to him before he's shot to death like an animal.

Hmmmm...
This would be interesting. I don't think it'll happen, but it would be pretty cool if it did.
Almost hits the "reset button" on North America...

I kind of like the idea of North America being set back to square one.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Some of these ideas are really fun. I just think that many of them would take an entire series of books to see through to completion. Remember guys, we're getting one book here. What we think is happening has to start, take place, and be done (( Mostly)) by the end of a single book.

[Damian Magecraft]

Some of these ideas are really fun. I just think that many of them would take an entire series of books to see through to completion. Remember guys, we're getting one book here. What we think is happening has to start, take place, and be done (( Mostly)) by the end of a single book.

This...
Unless of course we are talking about the "next big story" idea.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

[Damian Magecraft]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

Agreed.
However the idea of the "next" meta-arc story intrigues me some...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

Agreed.
However the idea of the "next" meta-arc story intrigues me some...

It's space mega plot, CS space mobile marnies vs the Tolkeen mages of mars....

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

Agreed.
However the idea of the "next" meta-arc story intrigues me some...

It's space mega plot, CS space mobile marnies vs the Tolkeen mages of mars....

They're a bit reticent to totally invalidate books. If they went that way it'd make "Mutants in Orbit" obsolete (( At least by half))

I'm thinking they'll take a few years off from the meta plot after they 'shake things up" with this one. I mean Rifts is over 20 years old and it's only advanced 4 to 5 years in game.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

Agreed.
However the idea of the "next" meta-arc story intrigues me some...

It's space mega plot, CS space mobile marnies vs the Tolkeen mages of mars....

They're a bit reticent to totally invalidate books. If they went that way it'd make "Mutants in Orbit" obsolete (( At least by half))

I'm thinking they'll take a few years off from the meta plot after they 'shake things up" with this one. I mean Rifts is over 20 years old and it's only advanced 4 to 5 years in game.

So what the last 20 pages of a 60 page book fine by me, rifts space seemed like and after thought and he we need something to full pages. "space rifts ?" " sounds good to me!"

[Nightmask]

So what the last 20 pages of a 60 page book fine by me, rifts space seemed like and after thought and he we need something to full pages. "space rifts ?" " sounds good to me!"

Ironically I found almost all of the material in that book to be useful in a solid, full setting. Except for mars, I wasn't particularly enthralled with mars...

Yes, Mars definitely had 'you've got to be kidding me' events going on. 'Gee, let's all trust the guy who created these killer insects we've been fighting off when he says he's changed and this NEW batch of killer insects will just kill the ones he already made and then die off. Surely he's not planning to betray us like he's already done once before.'

[Nightmask]

So what the last 20 pages of a 60 page book fine by me, rifts space seemed like and after thought and he we need something to full pages. "space rifts ?" " sounds good to me!"

Ironically I found almost all of the material in that book to be useful in a solid, full setting. Except for mars, I wasn't particularly enthralled with mars...

Yes, Mars definitely had 'you've got to be kidding me' events going on. 'Gee, let's all trust the guy who created these killer insects we've been fighting off when he says he's changed and this NEW batch of killer insects will just kill the ones he already made and then die off. Surely he's not planning to betray us like he's already done once before.'

Favorite part was the Mikado power Armor suit, that things BA

Definitely some nice power armors, although I favor the Mark IV Glitter Boy, particle beam cannon with the same range as a Boom Gun but no recoil to really worry about and an extra 1d6X10 damage. Sure your shot count is pretty low but your average opponent isn't going to last too long against 4d6X10 anyway, and the back-up laser isn't bad either (although I'd favor upgrading it with one of the HI lasers from Phase World given the opportunity).

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

Agreed.
However the idea of the "next" meta-arc story intrigues me some...

It's space mega plot, CS space mobile marnies vs the Tolkeen mages of mars....

They're a bit reticent to totally invalidate books. If they went that way it'd make "Mutants in Orbit" obsolete (( At least by half))

I'm thinking they'll take a few years off from the meta plot after they 'shake things up" with this one. I mean Rifts is over 20 years old and it's only advanced 4 to 5 years in game.

So what the last 20 pages of a 60 page book fine by me, rifts space seemed like and after thought and he we need something to full pages. "space rifts ?" " sounds good to me!"

You're forgetting a HUUUUGE Part of the rifts setting is that earth is cut off from space by the defense satalites. It explains why satalite communication is restricted to Archie. And the various factions of humans aren't linked up and talk more than they already do.

Personally I don't like Mutants in orbit either. (( and I'm a huge TMNT/ATB fan)) For rifts OR ATB.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm not forgetting them I just dont think their behavior is honest with human nature

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'm not forgetting them I just dont think their behavior is honest with human nature

Defense satellite behavior.... or... the idiots on mars with the bugs?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm not forgetting them I just dont think their behavior is honest with human nature

Defense satellite behavior.... or... the idiots on mars with the bugs?

The idiots in orbit

[flatline]

You're forgetting a HUUUUGE Part of the rifts setting is that earth is cut off from space by the defense satalites. It explains why satalite communication is restricted to Archie. And the various factions of humans aren't linked up and talk more than they already do.

You're forgetting that while Tech nations might be cut off from space, magic using nations aren't. A technowizard could add Invisibility:Superior to a rocket ship to get through the satellites and Mystic Portal or Teleport:Superior or Time Slip (depending on how thick the field is) to get past the debris field.

And I'm not even trying.

Dimensional Portal would let you go anywhere you want, GM permitting. Heck, Teleport:Superior by itself is sufficient to put you in orbit. Couple that with Sustain (for surviving the vacuum) and Impervious to Energy (for surviving UV radiation and your own body heat) and you're in business.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

I'm not forgetting them I just dont think their behavior is honest with human nature

Defense satellite behavior.... or... the idiots on mars with the bugs?

The idiots in orbit

but it's not the idiots doing it, is it? It's the killer satellites out side of their control?

[Pepsi Jedi]

You're forgetting a HUUUUGE Part of the rifts setting is that earth is cut off from space by the defense satalites. It explains why satalite communication is restricted to Archie. And the various factions of humans aren't linked up and talk more than they already do.

You're forgetting that while Tech nations might be cut off from space, magic using nations aren't. A technowizard could add Invisibility:Superior to a rocket ship to get through the satellites and Mystic Portal or Teleport:Superior or Time Slip (depending on how thick the field is) to get past the debris field.

And I'm not even trying.

Dimensional Portal would let you go anywhere you want, GM permitting. Heck, Teleport:Superior by itself is sufficient to put you in orbit. Couple that with Sustain (for surviving the vacuum) and Impervious to Energy (for surviving UV radiation and your own body heat) and you're in business.

--flatline

To be honest I'm a little too lazy to look it up just now but I'm thinking the ranges an stuff might be off. *Yawns* I'll get out my MiO book though and look. I think Magic was pretty much ignored or hand waved.

I know it appears in some of the other dimension books but not sure about rifts earth/magic/space.

[Balabanto]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

Agreed.
However the idea of the "next" meta-arc story intrigues me some...

It's space mega plot, CS space mobile marnies vs the Tolkeen mages of mars....

They're a bit reticent to totally invalidate books. If they went that way it'd make "Mutants in Orbit" obsolete (( At least by half))

I'm thinking they'll take a few years off from the meta plot after they 'shake things up" with this one. I mean Rifts is over 20 years old and it's only advanced 4 to 5 years in game.

Yes, and hopefully after this, they'll never advance it again. The best way for player characters to have an impact on the world is not to advance the timeline and create PC "huh????s".

Nothing screws up PC plans like advancing the timeline. Do you want to know what it's like to have to rewrite the second half of an entire campaign world because someone wrote some Forgotten Realms Novels and the company made them canon?

I can tell you. My players were angry, genuinely angry that the timeline had been advanced, not just because the timeline had been advanced, but because it had been advanced in a stupidly unbelievable way.

Many people, just based on the huge arguments on these boards, treat Siege of Tolkeen the same way. The solution is simple. Don't have event books. When a company sticks us with these, especially if we run several long-running games in the same world, we feel like we're getting it in the neck.

The thing that got me the most was that Siege of Tolkeen came out well before the ruining of the Forgotten Realms, and despite the evidence in front of their faces of what this did, and the arrogance of Wizards of the Coast saying "Ha, we are industry leaders! We don't need to watch case studies from a small company like Palladium," they went and did it anyway.

That's one of the reasons why I buy this company's stuff. Despite the fact that Megaverse in Flames is really delayed, far too late for it's own good, etc, Kevin learns from his mistakes. Wizards fires people, hires someone new, and makes the same mistakes AGAIN.

In order to understand why Kevin feels he must publish an event book and advance the timeline, this is the BEST choice he could possibly have made. Here's why. Delaying the product causes GMs like me and you to run our stuff, and set the level of Minion War involvement that we want PC's to have. I have two groups in 110 PA, everyone else is in 109.

What I have learned about Event Books from this is that for the small number of people who involve themselves in individual conflicts like the Minion War, these are big bugaboos. But Rifts has an advantage here that was the same thing in the Forgotten Realms.

What Rifts and the Forgotten Realms shared was this:

Over 50 percent of the people who were buying the books were not, in any way, purchasing them to run a game with.

huh???? How can that possibly be?

Well, the Forgotten Realms and Rifts are high-fluff, high-fantasy settings. Loads of people buy these books who NEVER play the game. They just want to find out everything about it because the setting is interesting.

So if you know that your chance of affecting any individual campaign is extremely small, you release event books because of your product demographic. I wish they wouldn't, because I actually run the game, but I can't stop Kevin from following up on his business model.

The converse to this is the possibility that the Minion War will have numerous hate threads like Siege of Tolkeen did, and I'm sure we'll get a few. The problem is common sense in the business model. Here's where we can be pretty sure nothing is going to happen.

1) Northern Gun: Northern Gun, nothing is going to happen because they're releasing 2 sourcebooks right now.

2) Lazlo: This is a projected product, so maps are already in the pipeline.

3) The Vampire Kingdoms: This one just got revised and rebooted. They won't do this twice.

[flatline]

You're forgetting a HUUUUGE Part of the rifts setting is that earth is cut off from space by the defense satalites. It explains why satalite communication is restricted to Archie. And the various factions of humans aren't linked up and talk more than they already do.

You're forgetting that while Tech nations might be cut off from space, magic using nations aren't. A technowizard could add Invisibility:Superior to a rocket ship to get through the satellites and Mystic Portal or Teleport:Superior or Time Slip (depending on how thick the field is) to get past the debris field.

And I'm not even trying.

Dimensional Portal would let you go anywhere you want, GM permitting. Heck, Teleport:Superior by itself is sufficient to put you in orbit. Couple that with Sustain (for surviving the vacuum) and Impervious to Energy (for surviving UV radiation and your own body heat) and you're in business.

--flatline

To be honest I'm a little too lazy to look it up just now but I'm thinking the ranges an stuff might be off. *Yawns* I'll get out my MiO book though and look. I think Magic was pretty much ignored or hand waved.

I know it appears in some of the other dimension books but not sure about rifts earth/magic/space.

Ranges for what might be off?

Teleport:Superior has a range of 300 miles per level.

The ISS is 250 miles up, so a first level mage can get there in a single casting. Low Earth Orbit ends at about 1200 miles, so a 4th level mage can reach anything in LEO in a single casting. Multiple castings will take you as high as you have PPE for.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well I'm sure there's going to be some stuff left hanging and 'unfinished' but buy and large there's going to have to be some resolution. It's the last book of the story arc. LOL

Agreed.
However the idea of the "next" meta-arc story intrigues me some...

It's space mega plot, CS space mobile marnies vs the Tolkeen mages of mars....

They're a bit reticent to totally invalidate books. If they went that way it'd make "Mutants in Orbit" obsolete (( At least by half))

I'm thinking they'll take a few years off from the meta plot after they 'shake things up" with this one. I mean Rifts is over 20 years old and it's only advanced 4 to 5 years in game.

Yes, and hopefully after this, they'll never advance it again. The best way for player characters to have an impact on the world is not to advance the timeline and create PC "huh????s".

Nothing screws up PC plans like advancing the timeline. Do you want to know what it's like to have to rewrite the second half of an entire campaign world because someone wrote some Forgotten Realms Novels and the company made them canon?

I can tell you. My players were angry, genuinely angry that the timeline had been advanced, not just because the timeline had been advanced, but because it had been advanced in a stupidly unbelievable way.

Many people, just based on the huge arguments on these boards, treat Siege of Tolkeen the same way. The solution is simple. Don't have event books. When a company sticks us with these, especially if we run several long-running games in the same world, we feel like we're getting it in the neck.

The thing that got me the most was that Siege of Tolkeen came out well before the ruining of the Forgotten Realms, and despite the evidence in front of their faces of what this did, and the arrogance of Wizards of the Coast saying "Ha, we are industry leaders! We don't need to watch case studies from a small company like Palladium," they went and did it anyway.

That's one of the reasons why I buy this company's stuff. Despite the fact that Megaverse in Flames is really delayed, far too late for it's own good, etc, Kevin learns from his mistakes. Wizards fires people, hires someone new, and makes the same mistakes AGAIN.

In order to understand why Kevin feels he must publish an event book and advance the timeline, this is the BEST choice he could possibly have made. Here's why. Delaying the product causes GMs like me and you to run our stuff, and set the level of Minion War involvement that we want PC's to have. I have two groups in 110 PA, everyone else is in 109.

What I have learned about Event Books from this is that for the small number of people who involve themselves in individual conflicts like the Minion War, these are big bugaboos. But Rifts has an advantage here that was the same thing in the Forgotten Realms.

What Rifts and the Forgotten Realms shared was this:

Over 50 percent of the people who were buying the books were not, in any way, purchasing them to run a game with.

huh???? How can that possibly be?

Well, the Forgotten Realms and Rifts are high-fluff, high-fantasy settings. Loads of people buy these books who NEVER play the game. They just want to find out everything about it because the setting is interesting.

So if you know that your chance of affecting any individual campaign is extremely small, you release event books because of your product demographic. I wish they wouldn't, because I actually run the game, but I can't stop Kevin from following up on his business model.

The converse to this is the possibility that the Minion War will have numerous hate threads like Siege of Tolkeen did, and I'm sure we'll get a few. The problem is common sense in the business model. Here's where we can be pretty sure nothing is going to happen.

1) Northern Gun: Northern Gun, nothing is going to happen because they're releasing 2 sourcebooks right now.

2) Lazlo: This is a projected product, so maps are already in the pipeline.

3) The Vampire Kingdoms: This one just got revised and rebooted. They won't do this twice.

Quite the rant there, but I disagree. Shadowrun is constantly moving forward the Metaplot and they get by just fine.

Palladium's had ONE move forward in time in like 20+ years. The Tolkeen war. 12 years ago. MAYBE a minor step if you count the new stuff in CS War Campaign. That was in 96. If your campaign can't take a move forward once per decade, well. No offense, but I don't care. lol I don't like stagnant worlds. Palladium needs to move things forward faster than once per Decade+. If you don't want to move your worlds forward, just don't buy the new books, but alot of people like new things. Keeping a game stagnant for decades doesn't do anything good for the game.

[Pepsi Jedi]

You're forgetting a HUUUUGE Part of the rifts setting is that earth is cut off from space by the defense satalites. It explains why satalite communication is restricted to Archie. And the various factions of humans aren't linked up and talk more than they already do.

You're forgetting that while Tech nations might be cut off from space, magic using nations aren't. A technowizard could add Invisibility:Superior to a rocket ship to get through the satellites and Mystic Portal or Teleport:Superior or Time Slip (depending on how thick the field is) to get past the debris field.

And I'm not even trying.

Dimensional Portal would let you go anywhere you want, GM permitting. Heck, Teleport:Superior by itself is sufficient to put you in orbit. Couple that with Sustain (for surviving the vacuum) and Impervious to Energy (for surviving UV radiation and your own body heat) and you're in business.

--flatline

To be honest I'm a little too lazy to look it up just now but I'm thinking the ranges an stuff might be off. *Yawns* I'll get out my MiO book though and look. I think Magic was pretty much ignored or hand waved.

I know it appears in some of the other dimension books but not sure about rifts earth/magic/space.

Ranges for what might be off?

Teleport:Superior has a range of 300 miles per level.

The ISS is 250 miles up, so a first level mage can get there in a single casting. Low Earth Orbit ends at about 1200 miles, so a 4th level mage can reach anything in LEO in a single casting. Multiple castings will take you as high as you have PPE for.

--flatline

Isn't there that pesky "You have to know where you're goin' Thing? I think this was addressed in one of the Rifter Q&A's. Someone asked about teleporting up repeatedly then letting someone go. There was some ruling on it. Thing is I've been going through dozens of rifters lately just brousing. Could be in number 3 or number 53. I TOTALLY don't remember.

[flatline]

Ranges for what might be off?

Teleport:Superior has a range of 300 miles per level.

The ISS is 250 miles up, so a first level mage can get there in a single casting. Low Earth Orbit ends at about 1200 miles, so a 4th level mage can reach anything in LEO in a single casting. Multiple castings will take you as high as you have PPE for.

--flatline

Isn't there that pesky "You have to know where you're goin' Thing? I think this was addressed in one of the Rifter Q&A's. Someone asked about teleporting up repeatedly then letting someone go. There was some ruling on it. Thing is I've been going through dozens of rifters lately just brousing. Could be in number 3 or number 53. I TOTALLY don't remember.

If I can see a spot, then I can teleport there. This is why telescopes and looking glasses will never go out of style. So while I may not be able to teleport INSIDE the ISS, I could teleport to a visible point OUTSIDE it. Then I could look through the window to be able to teleport inside it next time I make the trip.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ranges for what might be off?

Teleport:Superior has a range of 300 miles per level.

The ISS is 250 miles up, so a first level mage can get there in a single casting. Low Earth Orbit ends at about 1200 miles, so a 4th level mage can reach anything in LEO in a single casting. Multiple castings will take you as high as you have PPE for.

--flatline

Isn't there that pesky "You have to know where you're goin' Thing? I think this was addressed in one of the Rifter Q&A's. Someone asked about teleporting up repeatedly then letting someone go. There was some ruling on it. Thing is I've been going through dozens of rifters lately just brousing. Could be in number 3 or number 53. I TOTALLY don't remember.

If I can see a spot, then I can teleport there. This is why telescopes and looking glasses will never go out of style. So while I may not be able to teleport INSIDE the ISS, I could teleport to a visible point OUTSIDE it. Then I could look through the window to be able to teleport inside it next time I make the trip.

--flatline

But you'd need a space suit, EBA would stop your magic wouldn't it? (( It's been months since I've read up on mage/armor rules forgive me if I'm wrong there. I rather don't play mages.))

[Galroth]

Ranges for what might be off?

Teleport:Superior has a range of 300 miles per level.

The ISS is 250 miles up, so a first level mage can get there in a single casting. Low Earth Orbit ends at about 1200 miles, so a 4th level mage can reach anything in LEO in a single casting. Multiple castings will take you as high as you have PPE for.

--flatline

Isn't there that pesky "You have to know where you're goin' Thing? I think this was addressed in one of the Rifter Q&A's. Someone asked about teleporting up repeatedly then letting someone go. There was some ruling on it. Thing is I've been going through dozens of rifters lately just brousing. Could be in number 3 or number 53. I TOTALLY don't remember.

If I can see a spot, then I can teleport there. This is why telescopes and looking glasses will never go out of style. So while I may not be able to teleport INSIDE the ISS, I could teleport to a visible point OUTSIDE it. Then I could look through the window to be able to teleport inside it next time I make the trip.

--flatline

But you'd need a space suit, EBA would stop your magic wouldn't it? (( It's been months since I've read up on mage/armor rules forgive me if I'm wrong there. I rather don't play mages.))

Simple Techno-wizard armor using Invincible Armor (fully environmental with independent oxygen supply) with Sustain for duration. Bam, magic space suit.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

With magic to supplement technology, it should be relatively easy to sneak sizable forces out of the atmosphere without detection. Add in some alien tech, like Naruni CG flight pack and vehicles, and it just gets ridiculously simple.

[flatline]

Ranges for what might be off?

Teleport:Superior has a range of 300 miles per level.

The ISS is 250 miles up, so a first level mage can get there in a single casting. Low Earth Orbit ends at about 1200 miles, so a 4th level mage can reach anything in LEO in a single casting. Multiple castings will take you as high as you have PPE for.

--flatline

Isn't there that pesky "You have to know where you're goin' Thing? I think this was addressed in one of the Rifter Q&A's. Someone asked about teleporting up repeatedly then letting someone go. There was some ruling on it. Thing is I've been going through dozens of rifters lately just brousing. Could be in number 3 or number 53. I TOTALLY don't remember.

If I can see a spot, then I can teleport there. This is why telescopes and looking glasses will never go out of style. So while I may not be able to teleport INSIDE the ISS, I could teleport to a visible point OUTSIDE it. Then I could look through the window to be able to teleport inside it next time I make the trip.

--flatline

But you'd need a space suit, EBA would stop your magic wouldn't it? (( It's been months since I've read up on mage/armor rules forgive me if I'm wrong there. I rather don't play mages.))

That's what Sustain and Impervious to Energy are for. Sustain deals with the lack of air to breath and Impervious to Energy handles all the dangerous radiation that is normally absorbed by the atmosphere before it reaches my tender flesh. Also it protects me from cooking myself with my own body heat.

Oh, and EBA doesn't have any affect on Teleport since, by definition, when you teleport, you don't travel through the space between points A and B.

--flatline

[Balabanto]

Damian:

There's nothing stagnant about releasing new sourcebooks about areas they haven't covered yet. New is new. It doesn't require a timeline.

Also...what was Juicer Uprisings? Fanfiction?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ranges for what might be off?

Teleport:Superior has a range of 300 miles per level.

The ISS is 250 miles up, so a first level mage can get there in a single casting. Low Earth Orbit ends at about 1200 miles, so a 4th level mage can reach anything in LEO in a single casting. Multiple castings will take you as high as you have PPE for.

--flatline

Isn't there that pesky "You have to know where you're goin' Thing? I think this was addressed in one of the Rifter Q&A's. Someone asked about teleporting up repeatedly then letting someone go. There was some ruling on it. Thing is I've been going through dozens of rifters lately just brousing. Could be in number 3 or number 53. I TOTALLY don't remember.

If I can see a spot, then I can teleport there. This is why telescopes and looking glasses will never go out of style. So while I may not be able to teleport INSIDE the ISS, I could teleport to a visible point OUTSIDE it. Then I could look through the window to be able to teleport inside it next time I make the trip.

--flatline

But you'd need a space suit, EBA would stop your magic wouldn't it? (( It's been months since I've read up on mage/armor rules forgive me if I'm wrong there. I rather don't play mages.))

That's what Sustain and Impervious to Energy are for. Sustain deals with the lack of air to breath and Impervious to Energy handles all the dangerous radiation that is normally absorbed by the atmosphere before it reaches my tender flesh. Also it protects me from cooking myself with my own body heat.

Oh, and EBA doesn't have any affect on Teleport since, by definition, when you teleport, you don't travel through the space between points A and B.

--flatline

With out getting too technical, there's a bit more to surviving in hard vacume than just having air. (( Not to mention the air would just leave as soon as you make it)) Again it's like 5am, when I got around to this so i'm heading to bed, but waving your hand and saying a spell can give you air doesn't quite cut it.

Show your work. Give page numbers so people can check it.

[Giant2005]

With out getting too technical, there's a bit more to surviving in hard vacume than just having air. (( Not to mention the air would just leave as soon as you make it)) Again it's like 5am, when I got around to this so i'm heading to bed, but waving your hand and saying a spell can give you air doesn't quite cut it.

Show your work. Give page numbers so people can check it.

The thing about Sustain is that it is better than merely giving you air.
If it gave you air and you were exposed to a vacuum, the air in your lungs would expand and kill you pretty quickly. The reason Sustain works is because it doesn't give you air, it removes the need for air which means you don't have any air in your lungs killing you.

[flatline]

In all the threads where Sustain has come up, you've never bothered to look up the description? I usually only give a book citation when I've said something that the reader isn't expected to know.

BoM p109:
"Sustain allows the recipient of this enchantment to go for days without food, water, or breathable air!"

If you'd like a canon description of what it means to be able to Breath Without Air, look at BoM p96 at the spell with the same name.

"This invocation enables the character to function normally without air, whether it be underwater or in a vacuum or in an area with little or no oxygen".

While it's not explicitly stated, the 3rd level BWA spell is usually considered to be a subset of the 5th level Sustain the same way that Impervious to Fire is considered to be a subset of Impervious to Energy.

Would you like a citation on how Impervious to Energy would protect against UV radiation and being cooked by your own body heat?

--flatline

[Sureshot]

Quite the rant there, but I disagree. Shadowrun is constantly moving forward the Metaplot and they get by just fine.

Or Champions. New World of Darkness. Done properly a occasional metaplot works wonders for a background.

Palladium's had ONE move forward in time in like 20+ years. The Tolkeen war. 12 years ago. MAYBE a minor step if you count the new stuff in CS War Campaign. That was in 96. If your campaign can't take a move forward once per decade, well. No offense, but I don't care. lol I don't like stagnant worlds. Palladium needs to move things forward faster than once per Decade+. If you don't want to move your worlds forward, just don't buy the new books, but alot of people like new things. Keeping a game stagnant for decades doesn't do anything good for the game.

Agreed and seconded. A gaming world cannot remain stagnant indefinately. Occasional metaplots are needed imo to move the world along. Don't like the meatplot don't buy the books with it. I disliked the Old world of darkness metaplot. I stopped buying. And no it's not a cop-out for saying so. I don't like the SOT yet I still bought the books because I'm a competist. If I was less of one I would not have bought SOT. Not true metaplot aside still some very useful information to be had. Espcially Rifts earth with so many factions and groups impossible imo for it to remain static.
[quote="Pepsi Jedi"]

[Sureshot]

Yes, and hopefully after this, they'll never advance it again. The best way for player characters to have an impact on the world is not to advance the timeline and create PC "huh????s".

Nothing screws up PC plans like advancing the timeline. Do you want to know what it's like to have to rewrite the second half of an entire campaign world because someone wrote some Forgotten Realms Novels and the company made them canon?

I can tell you. My players were angry, genuinely angry that the timeline had been advanced, not just because the timeline had been advanced, but because it had been advanced in a stupidly unbelievable way.

Many people, just based on the huge arguments on these boards, treat Siege of Tolkeen the same way. The solution is simple. Don't have event books. When a company sticks us with these, especially if we run several long-running games in the same world, we feel like we're getting it in the neck.

The thing that got me the most was that Siege of Tolkeen came out well before the ruining of the Forgotten Realms, and despite the evidence in front of their faces of what this did, and the arrogance of Wizards of the Coast saying "Ha, we are industry leaders! We don't need to watch case studies from a small company like Palladium," they went and did it anyway.

That's one of the reasons why I buy this company's stuff. Despite the fact that Megaverse in Flames is really delayed, far too late for it's own good, etc, Kevin learns from his mistakes. Wizards fires people, hires someone new, and makes the same mistakes AGAIN.

In order to understand why Kevin feels he must publish an event book and advance the timeline, this is the BEST choice he could possibly have made. Here's why. Delaying the product causes GMs like me and you to run our stuff, and set the level of Minion War involvement that we want PC's to have. I have two groups in 110 PA, everyone else is in 109.

What I have learned about Event Books from this is that for the small number of people who involve themselves in individual conflicts like the Minion War, these are big bugaboos. But Rifts has an advantage here that was the same thing in the Forgotten Realms.

What Rifts and the Forgotten Realms shared was this:

Over 50 percent of the people who were buying the books were not, in any way, purchasing them to run a game with.

huh???? How can that possibly be?

Well, the Forgotten Realms and Rifts are high-fluff, high-fantasy settings. Loads of people buy these books who NEVER play the game. They just want to find out everything about it because the setting is interesting.

So if you know that your chance of affecting any individual campaign is extremely small, you release event books because of your product demographic. I wish they wouldn't, because I actually run the game, but I can't stop Kevin from following up on his business model.

The converse to this is the possibility that the Minion War will have numerous hate threads like Siege of Tolkeen did, and I'm sure we'll get a few. The problem is common sense in the business model. Here's where we can be pretty sure nothing is going to happen.

1) Northern Gun: Northern Gun, nothing is going to happen because they're releasing 2 sourcebooks right now.

2) Lazlo: This is a projected product, so maps are already in the pipeline.

3) The Vampire Kingdoms: This one just got revised and rebooted. They won't do this twice.

Get over the spellpalgue already. Yes it was a bad way for Wotc to advance the timeline. If you still have your 3.5 books you can ignore that completely. Unless your a 4E player the spellplague does not even apply to 3.5 as it was written for 4E. I can underastand being unhappy about the Old world of darkness metaplot because no matter what. Nor the game line the world was doomed. Whote wolf wrote later books to incorpoare it. So unless you went out of your way to ignopre the metaplot it was everywhere and pretty far reaching.

As for Wotc taking advice from Palladium. Not if they want to go under. For me if anyone were to ask me "If I want to start a rpg comany what should I not do". I would point them towards PB. They are consistently late with books. Are unable to focus on one project at one time. Keep promising too many books for what they can do. Took money for Kickstarters and then decided to focus on other books whcih did not need to be focused on at the moment.

No wotc is very far from perfect. I hate a lot of wat they have done. Except they get their books out on time. If they ever kickstarted a project would make sure to focus on such a product. Took a page from Paizo and are open playtesting 5E. If what I have read is true the next edition of D&D is going to be modular. So if you want to use 5e to play 3.5 and pre-Spellplague you can. 5E and post spellplague you can. I want a rpg company to get books out on time within a reasonable amount of time. Not to be my best friend. I respct every rpg company I buy books from. Yet I am customer to them and pretty much a customer to them.

[Balabanto]

Yes, and hopefully after this, they'll never advance it again. The best way for player characters to have an impact on the world is not to advance the timeline and create PC "huh????s".

Nothing screws up PC plans like advancing the timeline. Do you want to know what it's like to have to rewrite the second half of an entire campaign world because someone wrote some Forgotten Realms Novels and the company made them canon?

I can tell you. My players were angry, genuinely angry that the timeline had been advanced, not just because the timeline had been advanced, but because it had been advanced in a stupidly unbelievable way.

Many people, just based on the huge arguments on these boards, treat Siege of Tolkeen the same way. The solution is simple. Don't have event books. When a company sticks us with these, especially if we run several long-running games in the same world, we feel like we're getting it in the neck.

The thing that got me the most was that Siege of Tolkeen came out well before the ruining of the Forgotten Realms, and despite the evidence in front of their faces of what this did, and the arrogance of Wizards of the Coast saying "Ha, we are industry leaders! We don't need to watch case studies from a small company like Palladium," they went and did it anyway.

That's one of the reasons why I buy this company's stuff. Despite the fact that Megaverse in Flames is really delayed, far too late for it's own good, etc, Kevin learns from his mistakes. Wizards fires people, hires someone new, and makes the same mistakes AGAIN.

In order to understand why Kevin feels he must publish an event book and advance the timeline, this is the BEST choice he could possibly have made. Here's why. Delaying the product causes GMs like me and you to run our stuff, and set the level of Minion War involvement that we want PC's to have. I have two groups in 110 PA, everyone else is in 109.

What I have learned about Event Books from this is that for the small number of people who involve themselves in individual conflicts like the Minion War, these are big bugaboos. But Rifts has an advantage here that was the same thing in the Forgotten Realms.

What Rifts and the Forgotten Realms shared was this:

Over 50 percent of the people who were buying the books were not, in any way, purchasing them to run a game with.

huh???? How can that possibly be?

Well, the Forgotten Realms and Rifts are high-fluff, high-fantasy settings. Loads of people buy these books who NEVER play the game. They just want to find out everything about it because the setting is interesting.

So if you know that your chance of affecting any individual campaign is extremely small, you release event books because of your product demographic. I wish they wouldn't, because I actually run the game, but I can't stop Kevin from following up on his business model.

The converse to this is the possibility that the Minion War will have numerous hate threads like Siege of Tolkeen did, and I'm sure we'll get a few. The problem is common sense in the business model. Here's where we can be pretty sure nothing is going to happen.

1) Northern Gun: Northern Gun, nothing is going to happen because they're releasing 2 sourcebooks right now.

2) Lazlo: This is a projected product, so maps are already in the pipeline.

3) The Vampire Kingdoms: This one just got revised and rebooted. They won't do this twice.

Get over the spellpalgue already. Yes it was a bad way for Wotc to advance the timeline. If you still have your 3.5 books you can ignore that completely. Unless your a 4E player the spellplague does not even apply to 3.5 as it was written for 4E. I can underastand being unhappy about the Old world of darkness metaplot because no matter what. Nor the game line the world was doomed. Whote wolf wrote later books to incorpoare it. So unless you went out of your way to ignopre the metaplot it was everywhere and pretty far reaching.

As for Wotc taking advice from Palladium. Not if they want to go under. For me if anyone were to ask me "If I want to start a rpg comany what should I not do". I would point them towards PB. They are consistently late with books. Are unable to focus on one project at one time. Keep promising too many books for what they can do. Took money for Kickstarters and then decided to focus on other books whcih did not need to be focused on at the moment.

No wotc is very far from perfect. I hate a lot of wat they have done. Except they get their books out on time. If they ever kickstarted a project would make sure to focus on such a product. Took a page from Paizo and are open playtesting 5E. If what I have read is true the next edition of D&D is going to be modular. So if you want to use 5e to play 3.5 and pre-Spellplague you can. 5E and post spellplague you can. I want a rpg company to get books out on time within a reasonable amount of time. Not to be my best friend. I respct every rpg company I buy books from. Yet I am customer to them and pretty much a customer to them.

The thing is, there's a difference between making genuinely bad decisions, and a business model. In the case of Wizards, they made genuinely bad decisions. It wasn't a small group of people trying to rip their face off. It was everything about the characters they loved and what was done to them. The spellplague was a symptom of Wizards not caring about their fans.

Palladium metaplot is a symptom of building a metaplot instead of a toolkit. If SOT was so amazing, why does everyone think that it never should have happened? While hindsight may always be 20/20, repeated observations of the same thing lead to one inescapable conclusion:

If there's all this undetailed land on Rifts Earth, all of it should have been detailed before advancing the timeline. Then you publish one update book a year, and you're done.

Palladium doesn't understand this key phrase:

Underpromise and overdeliver. I would rather have a far-out promise date and have the book psychologically arrive "early" than "We guarantee that it will be done. Whoops, we didn't get it done."

I know what it's like to get these kinds of messages and send them. It never feels good. Instead of a metaplot, they should just present situations and options. Then the GM is in control, and has the option of discarding plot elements he doesn't like.

We all ask questions like "Will Rifts: Scandinavia remember that Wothan the Slayer exists?" and "Why does the Coalition have absolute writer's fiat no matter how many people absolutely despise these guys?"

I can tell you why that is in a heartbeat, and please don't take this the wrong way, in the sense that some people may feel I am insulting Palladium Staff.

Many of the people who buy the books are smarter, or think they're smarter, than the people who write them. Then, they write long detailed essays on why their ideas are better. Now, sometimes, they aren't smarter. But sometimes they do have a point or two.

We call this "ranting." Sometimes, this ranting is very hostile. But sometimes, there's a kernel of truth buried inside the rants, and that's when rants are most hurtful and painful.

So here's what it boils down to, really. No one is going to be completely happy with Megaverse in Flames, except the people who write it.

And that's why I don't like metaplots that advance the timeline.

Let's get to the Champions example, since I write for that game. This is completely different. Games written for the "Modern World" are at the mercy of modern events. The "Timeline" advances around you! It's a complete "russian reversal."

But in a high fantasy or post-apocalyptic setting, you aren't limited by that in any way. You just build your world and let your players play in the sandbox.

So why would there need to be a timeline advance in one of those two situations? There isn't.

[Sureshot]

That's a great post with a lot of points I agree with Bab. I do think PB has also done making genuinely bad decisions. Overpromising and undelivering. Implementing kickstartetrs and then not focusing on them. Constantly unable to predict proper release dates. I do think they have also done some postive things with good business decisions. Yet unlike Wotc who have done some really bad business decisions PB does not learn from any past mistakes. With 5E you can play in any era of the Forgotten Realms. Apparently including the age of Netaril. I don't like metaplot as much either. Which is why I don't like Choas Eart. If you can't stop the comng of the Rifts and the earth and humanity plunge into a dark age. No matter what you do why even play CE. Just play rifts instead. I do think that some metaplot ever now and then in a game line is needed. Rifts earth has too many factions. It's impossible imo that nothing every changes and everything remains static. Unfortunately for those who really dislike metaplot such as yourself and other pb fans who feel the same way. PB seems dead set on doing such events. Myself as long as it's not another railroad and the CS hopefully don't get script and plot immnity a second time because of their populairty well I'm all for well written metaplot. It's makes no sense to have a dimensiion spannin event usch as the minion war and not have anything change.

[Pepsi Jedi]

In all the threads where Sustain has come up, you've never bothered to look up the description? I usually only give a book citation when I've said something that the reader isn't expected to know.

BoM p109:
"Sustain allows the recipient of this enchantment to go for days without food, water, or breathable air!"

If you'd like a canon description of what it means to be able to Breath Without Air, look at BoM p96 at the spell with the same name.

"This invocation enables the character to function normally without air, whether it be underwater or in a vacuum or in an area with little or no oxygen".

While it's not explicitly stated, the 3rd level BWA spell is usually considered to be a subset of the 5th level Sustain the same way that Impervious to Fire is considered to be a subset of Impervious to Energy.

Would you like a citation on how Impervious to Energy would protect against UV radiation and being cooked by your own body heat?

--flatline

Nope. Noone ever posted a book and page number. I've got 70-80 or more Rifts books. That's alot of crap to look through for a random spell. lol I'll take a look.

*opens book*

Ok. No air but you're still vulnerable to decompression and the cold of space. You might breathe but your skill will freeze in seconds and you'll be dead anyway.

So yeah. Gimme the citation on that. I don't think cold is energy.