Cosmo Knight

[BloodAnjiel]

I have some questions about cosmo knights now. The first two deal with his super luminous flight. A cosmo knight flies at Mach 1 per level, so a level 4 CKnight can go Mach 4. My first question is how long does it take for him to reach Mach 4? Is it right after take off or does he have to build up to it? Second, how quickly can he stop? Does he have to slow down or can he stop on a dime? My third question deals a little with the SLF. Here's the scenario, a horde of zombies are attacking a town, I am trying to fight them off but have no weapons designed to take out large numbers, so I hold my shield in front of my and rocket at top speeds into them making a makeshift line aoe. Zombies have a 15 AR, I roll above the strike. Since it has an AR, would he take damage from the strike only or would he take massive amounts of damage from an impact of something fairly large traveling at Mach 4? I say that the zombie would be obliterated because I'm traveling at MACH 4! Collision damage is 1d4 for every 20 mph over 40. Mach 4 is roughly 3,044 miles per hour. That is 150d4. How many zombies could stand up to that? A friend of mine says that the hit would only do my strike damage, I was told that the damage was strike+2 for every 10-20 miles, I was wrong and graciously admit that, but I still say that the zombie would be a greasy smear on the shield. Another question I have is about ripping a zombie's head off. My CKnight has 57 P.S. In order to grab the head I roll for an entangle, am I supposed to roll over the AR to rip the head off or would any successful entangle coupled with the ridiculous strength be a headless zombie?

[Johnathan]

Honestly...? I would say that, based on context clues in the OCC, that they are able to immediately accelerate and decelerate...

In regards to all that zombie hulla-baloo... You're a freakin COSMO-KNIGHT!! That, by sheer PRINCIPLE, means that they are going to be VERY dead (well... More dead than they already are...) and your Cosmo-Knight will not even break a sweat...

I'm sorry but a Cosmo-Knight is a Megaversal-Level character class... Zombies are Canon Fodder, the ultimate Mook. this whole scenario is a no-brainier in my opinion.

[nilgravity]

I agree with the last point. Now if your GM is counting on zombies being a menace (some how) I can see an argument that enough zombies would be akin to running into a MDC structure at that speed. If you are going through a thousand SDC of zombie then that might scratch up that shield some. But that's a stretch. That would be like me running through a pile of packing peanuts.
The challenge is saving civilians not your own survival.

[Giant2005]

If it weren't for the existence of the Glitterboy, I'd rule that the Cosmo Knights could immediately accelerate to their top speed.
However due to the sonic boom rules being included in the Glitterboys, it suggests the writers know enough about physics to include such details, the fact that they didn't include the side-effect of a sonic boom in the description of the Cosmo Knight's flight with full knowledge that instant acceleration would cause one suggests that the intention is for a slower acceleration.

[Tinker Dragoon]

I have some questions about cosmo knights now. The first two deal with his super luminous flight. A cosmo knight flies at Mach 1 per level, so a level 4 CKnight can go Mach 4. My first question is how long does it take for him to reach Mach 4? Is it right after take off or does he have to build up to it? Second, how quickly can he stop? Does he have to slow down or can he stop on a dime?

The only rules I've seen for acceleration are the super speed combat rules from HU2, p. 72, which state that it costs half one's attacks per melee to reach top speed, regardless of what one's speed happens to be. Deceleration is implied to be more or less instant for such characters. Some of the super speed and flight powers list different rates than these.

My third question deals a little with the SLF. Here's the scenario, a horde of zombies are attacking a town, I am trying to fight them off but have no weapons designed to take out large numbers, so I hold my shield in front of my and rocket at top speeds into them making a makeshift line aoe. Zombies have a 15 AR, I roll above the strike. Since it has an AR, would he take damage from the strike only or would he take massive amounts of damage from an impact of something fairly large traveling at Mach 4? I say that the zombie would be obliterated because I'm traveling at MACH 4! Collision damage is 1d4 for every 20 mph over 40. Mach 4 is roughly 3,044 miles per hour. That is 150d4. How many zombies could stand up to that? A friend of mine says that the hit would only do my strike damage, I was told that the damage was strike+2 for every 10-20 miles, I was wrong and graciously admit that, but I still say that the zombie would be a greasy smear on the shield.

Again, the only rules I know for this situation come from HU2. According to the page cited above, characters making melee attacks while traveling at super speeds inflict +4 S.D.C. damage for every 20 mph of speed. At Mach 4 (3045 mph at standard atmosphere) that comes out to about +614 damage, or +6 Mega Damage.

As to the question of A.R., I don't know. I would think that a hyper-velocity attack like this would render A.R. meaningless. Unfortunately, zombies are immune to physical attacks, so it doesn't matter either way.

Another question I have is about ripping a zombie's head off. My CKnight has 57 P.S. In order to grab the head I roll for an entangle, am I supposed to roll over the AR to rip the head off or would any successful entangle coupled with the ridiculous strength be a headless zombie?

Technically, that's not an entangle, that's a grab or tear attack targeting the head. I believe I've seen elsewhere on the boards that the Dead Reign books require a roll of 17 or better to sever the head of a zombie (I'm not sure if this is a natural roll or not).

If you're actually going to enangle the zombie -- i.e. pin the opponent's weapon and prevent it from attacking -- then yes, you don't roll against the A.R., you roll against the zombie's strike roll.

[Nightmask]

in·er·tia
the property of matter by which it retains its state of rest or its velocity along a straight line so long ays it is not acted upon by an external force.

As long as your doing Mach 4 you will have to deal with it. You can not stop on a dime. Another way of looking at it is if you do stop on a dime your possessions would keep going how funny would that be for every time you use your power you had to retrieve all your stuff.
If the cosmo knight fly's at mach 4 in a small town he is bound to hit a car building etc. Hell at that speed shouldn't you be taking damage from dust rock and etc like being sand blasted?
With his shield up hes blind, so a cosmo knight blindly flying around at mach 4. lol
SOooo if your gm lets you do this mach 4 thing im willing to bet you would be using this way of attack on every npc that looks at you cross not many things can stand up to that kind of damage.

I think blood is a secret Mormon from Kenya to make Oklahoma a socialist flea market....................... lol

Sorry but Inertia doesn't have that big a say as you insist. As long as you've got the power to allow for it stopping on a dime is completely doable and inertia doesn't get a say in things. The major power for Super Speed explicitly goes out of its way to note you can stop on a dime if you want even moving at Mach One, because it's part of the power. A Cosmo-Knight could easily do the same, since I should point out Inertia applies to unpowered movement which is simply not the case with the Cosmo-Knight. He's a super-powered being who heads off at Mach 4 if he wants and simply applies reverse thrust to instantly stop wherever he wishes.

[BloodAnjiel]

Thank you Knightmask, l0tus is just trying to make himself seem smarter than he actually is. I agree that super-powered beings don't always follow the same rules as human beings. The super abilities bend the rules considerably. Mormon from Kenya trying to make a socialist flea market out of Oklahoma huh? If I knew you, we would have a few words...Thankfully I do, jerk.

[Traska]

It's a Cosmo Knight. If he wants to skull[redacted] the laws of physics, he can jolly well do so.

[Nightmask]

Thank you Knightmask, l0tus is just trying to make himself seem smarter than he actually is. I agree that super-powered beings don't always follow the same rules as human beings. The super abilities bend the rules considerably. Mormon from Kenya trying to make a socialist flea market out of Oklahoma huh? If I knew you, we would have a few words...Thankfully I do, jerk.

Well many people get confused on things like Inertia and Escape Velocity (another item that's applicable only to unpowered flight). While the principle of an object to resist having its speed and direction changed affects everything in a world of science fiction and fantasy many things exist that can alter that physical law or simply provide the power to make it irrelevant. A super-being with unassisted flight has some unknown means of moving himself often being shown able to get to top speed incredibly fast or instantaneously completely ignoring Inertia (which is going to resist you moving in the first place) so having sufficient ability to operate in reverse and stop you instantly would also be applicable.

[Traska]

I think the writers of this game we play expect us to use our brains and imagination. They shouldn't and cant spell out every thing to us.
Can no one see how unbalancing this would be?

Is the flight speed of a Cosmo Knight *really* going to be your camel's back straw for the character class? That's like saying that you don't want to get XM-Sirius for a murcielago because that would make it too expensive.

[Nightmask]

I think the writers of this game we play expect us to use our brains and imagination. They shouldn't and cant spell out every thing to us.
Can no one see how unbalancing this would be?

You think stopping on a dime is somehow unbalancing? You've a really odd idea of what's balanced and unbalanced if that's the case. Particularly since we've already got other characters shown who can also stop on a dime so clearly Palladium didn't think it such a game-breaker.

Explain how you think such a thing could possibly be unbalancing, how it provides the character with game-breaking power that somehow overshadows their high MDC, heavy damage-causing potential, range of resistances, and other supernatural aspects.

[Johnathan]

Okay... We're discussing what, potentially, could become a totally circular discussion between 2 to 3 individuals who are deadset on believing they are right. A few things I will add into the equation and probably not respond again on this forum:

A - A Cosmo-Knight, a being who, at maximum capacity, could fly at Mach 15 in an atmosphere and 15 times the speed of light in space... SHOULD be able to stop on a dime and accelerate on a dime. Why? Because at those speeds... Mach 15... He could literally miss his destination by hundreds of miles in the blink of an eye if he wasn't careful.

B - Inertia holds no basis upon a being such as a Cosmo-Knight. Why? Because based on the argument given FOR inertia... a Cosmo-Knight would destroy their own body flying at such ludicrous speeds by such things as particles in the air and/or rain/snow/sleet, etc.

C - A Cosmo-Knight, flying through a small town, at Mach 4... is probably NOT the smartest of ideas. He would probably cause more colateral damage than anything else by accidently flying through buildings, vehicles... people... Just saying. Of course, a certain amount of "common sense" needs to be exercised in this particular case. Flying at 3,000+ miles per hour (3000/60/60) means that your Cosmo-Knight is going at approximately .83 miles per SECOND. Of course he's runs the danger of not just causing damage but literally flying OUT of the town without realizing it. For example, if the Cosmo-Knight has 5 attacks per melee, that's 1 attack for every 3 seconds. In those 3 seconds... your CK has flown approximately two and a half miles from his starting location... Yeah...

[Armorlord]

I have some questions about cosmo knights now. The first two deal with his super luminous flight. A cosmo knight flies at Mach 1 per level, so a level 4 CKnight can go Mach 4. My first question is how long does it take for him to reach Mach 4? Is it right after take off or does he have to build up to it? Second, how quickly can he stop? Does he have to slow down or can he stop on a dime?

Given the cosmic level of the Cosmo Knight's power and source, and that they are also capable of superluminous speeds with the same power, I have to agree with others that say it is instantaneous. The power in question is a made of defying physics, and dogfighting contragravity fightercraft and FTL battleships.

My third question deals a little with the SLF. Here's the scenario, a horde of zombies are attacking a town, I am trying to fight them off but have no weapons designed to take out large numbers, so I hold my shield in front of my and rocket at top speeds into them making a makeshift line aoe. Zombies have a 15 AR, I roll above the strike. Since it has an AR, would he take damage from the strike only or would he take massive amounts of damage from an impact of something fairly large traveling at Mach 4? I say that the zombie would be obliterated because I'm traveling at MACH 4! Collision damage is 1d4 for every 20 mph over 40. Mach 4 is roughly 3,044 miles per hour. That is 150d4. How many zombies could stand up to that? A friend of mine says that the hit would only do my strike damage, I was told that the damage was strike+2 for every 10-20 miles, I was wrong and graciously admit that, but I still say that the zombie would be a greasy smear on the shield. Another question I have is about ripping a zombie's head off. My CKnight has 57 P.S. In order to grab the head I roll for an entangle, am I supposed to roll over the AR to rip the head off or would any successful entangle coupled with the ridiculous strength be a headless zombie?

I'm a bit confused as to why you're dealing with SDC zombies, most magic-based ones would be MDC, unless simple animated dead, if memory serves me correctly.
But, going by the information provided, you should indeed be tearing through them. Besides that your MD blasts would go all the way through an SDC hoard and damage whatever was past them, the newest collision rules (New Generation) puts that collision damage with your MDC self or shield at 304D6 x 0.8 MD- however that damage also applies to you, so perhaps you should slow down a little.
As for AR, that really can't help them against MD strength either, no amount of AR is going to help against that scale. If you were dealing with Dead Reign-style zombies, just mashing and smashing them might leave heads and creeper/garbage zombies squirming around to clean up.. but DR-style are supposed to turn MDC in MD dimensions as well, which would be a pain even for Cosmo-Knights to clean up, but at least there isn't AR to deal with then.

[BloodAnjiel]

I have some questions about cosmo knights now. The first two deal with his super luminous flight. A cosmo knight flies at Mach 1 per level, so a level 4 CKnight can go Mach 4. My first question is how long does it take for him to reach Mach 4? Is it right after take off or does he have to build up to it? Second, how quickly can he stop? Does he have to slow down or can he stop on a dime?

Given the cosmic level of the Cosmo Knight's power and source, and that they are also capable of superluminous speeds with the same power, I have to agree with others that say it is instantaneous. The power in question is a made of defying physics, and dogfighting contragravity fightercraft and FTL battleships.

My third question deals a little with the SLF. Here's the scenario, a horde of zombies are attacking a town, I am trying to fight them off but have no weapons designed to take out large numbers, so I hold my shield in front of my and rocket at top speeds into them making a makeshift line aoe. Zombies have a 15 AR, I roll above the strike. Since it has an AR, would he take damage from the strike only or would he take massive amounts of damage from an impact of something fairly large traveling at Mach 4? I say that the zombie would be obliterated because I'm traveling at MACH 4! Collision damage is 1d4 for every 20 mph over 40. Mach 4 is roughly 3,044 miles per hour. That is 150d4. How many zombies could stand up to that? A friend of mine says that the hit would only do my strike damage, I was told that the damage was strike+2 for every 10-20 miles, I was wrong and graciously admit that, but I still say that the zombie would be a greasy smear on the shield. Another question I have is about ripping a zombie's head off. My CKnight has 57 P.S. In order to grab the head I roll for an entangle, am I supposed to roll over the AR to rip the head off or would any successful entangle coupled with the ridiculous strength be a headless zombie?

I'm a bit confused as to why you're dealing with SDC zombies, most magic-based ones would be MDC, unless simple animated dead, if memory serves me correctly.
But, going by the information provided, you should indeed be tearing through them. Besides that your MD blasts would go all the way through an SDC hoard and damage whatever was past them, the newest collision rules (New Generation) puts that collision damage with your MDC self or shield at 304D6 x 0.8 MD- however that damage also applies to you, so perhaps you should slow down a little.
As for AR, that really can't help them against MD strength either, no amount of AR is going to help against that scale. If you were dealing with Dead Reign-style zombies, just mashing and smashing them might leave heads and creeper/garbage zombies squirming around to clean up.. but DR-style are supposed to turn MDC in MD dimensions as well, which would be a pain even for Cosmo-Knights to clean up, but at least there isn't AR to deal with then.

I'm not totally sure where the zombies in question came from, but they are MD and they have an AR. I'm only a lowly player in this one, you would have to ask l0tus where they came from, he's the GM in this case.

[Nightmask]

Stopping on a dime is not what will unbalance the game its the PC doing massive amounts of damage while ignoring momentum and logic in a cramped environment..

Momentum only has so much say, and logic requires you consider EVERYTHING about the situation. You're talking a being that's not bound by RL physics, it has other physics that it operates under, physics that warp or outright defy RL physics. Being able to instantaneously start and stop means a cramped environment isn't so much an issue, just as a drag racer or runner has a start and stop point that he's aiming for and once he's hit that stop point he goes into slow-down because that was his target the character that can stop on a dime works the same way. While he can go at Mach speeds he's already determined where he's aiming for, accelerates to full speed, blasts across the intervening space and stops at his destination with his ability to instantly reverse his thrust and come to a stop.

[BloodAnjiel]

Stopping on a dime is not what will unbalance the game its the PC doing massive amounts of damage while ignoring momentum and logic in a cramped environment..

Johnathan you made a good point I tried passing this info to blood but he didn't get my point. Your better at conveying the message .

C - A Cosmo-Knight, flying through a small town, at Mach 4... is probably NOT the smartest of ideas. He would probably cause more colateral damage than anything else by accidentally flying through buildings, vehicles... people... Just saying. Of course, a certain amount of "common sense" needs to be exercised in this particular case. Flying at 3,000+ miles per hour (3000/60/60) means that your Cosmo-Knight is going at approximately .83 miles per SECOND. Of course he's runs the danger of not just causing damage but literally flying OUT of the town without realizing it. For example, if the Cosmo-Knight has 5 attacks per melee, that's 1 attack for every 3 seconds. In those 3 seconds... your CK has flown approximately two and a half miles from his starting location... Yeah...

Given that a Cosmo Knight can stop on a dime, why does he have to fly for the full 3 seconds? A short burst of about a half a second is less that a half a mile, which, even if it were outside of town, it would only be a very short distance and could be back at the starting point in an instant almost. Yes, it would take up an action, but lets be honest, at 5 attacks per second, does it take a person 3 seconds to throw a punch? No, it takes much less than a second, I would even go so far as to say that it would take less than a half a second. This brings up another question, why is the palladium combat system so broken? An average character has 5-8 attacks in 15 seconds. I have seen children in karate classes easily do 10 attacks in 15 seconds. When I was a kid and when I got into a fight at school, I could do 8-10 in 15 seconds without training. Why would a juicer, who has been jacked up on all kinds of body enhancing drugs, only do 8-9 at level 4? Bruce Lee's attacks were so fast, they had to slow down the camera in order to see him move and it was still almost too fast to see. I'm just saying.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I have some questions about cosmo knights now. The first two deal with his super luminous flight. A cosmo knight flies at Mach 1 per level, so a level 4 CKnight can go Mach 4. My first question is how long does it take for him to reach Mach 4? Is it right after take off or does he have to build up to it? Second, how quickly can he stop? Does he have to slow down or can he stop on a dime?

My third question deals a little with the SLF. Here's the scenario, a horde of zombies are attacking a town, I am trying to fight them off but have no weapons designed to take out large numbers, so I hold my shield in front of my and rocket at top speeds into them making a makeshift line aoe. Zombies have a 15 AR, I roll above the strike. Since it has an AR, would he take damage from the strike only or would he take massive amounts of damage from an impact of something fairly large traveling at Mach 4? I say that the zombie would be obliterated because I'm traveling at MACH 4! Collision damage is 1d4 for every 20 mph over 40. Mach 4 is roughly 3,044 miles per hour. That is 150d4. How many zombies could stand up to that? A friend of mine says that the hit would only do my strike damage, I was told that the damage was strike+2 for every 10-20 miles, I was wrong and graciously admit that, but I still say that the zombie would be a greasy smear on the shield.

Another question I have is about ripping a zombie's head off. My CKnight has 57 P.S. In order to grab the head I roll for an entangle, am I supposed to roll over the AR to rip the head off or would any successful entangle coupled with the ridiculous strength be a headless zombie?

Paragraphs would of been nice. I put in some paragraph breaks so I could sort out what was what.
"For Super Luminal Flight" The text says that after 10 min of meditation the CK turns into pure energy and jumps 1 Light Year per level costing 30 PPE and 30 MDC.

As to the in atmo. flight speed, the canon answer is "it does not say how fast they accelerate." Which means Gm's decide their acceleration. I would put it an 1 M/APM. For both acceleration and deceleration.
Ending up stopped on the dime, Yes. taking the diameter of the dime to stop in, No.

If you are Ramming stuff remember that damage is done to both sides of the equation. Whatever is done to the zombies is done to the CK.

In HU2 the damages for sonic flight/speed for a body block/ramming attack at 400 mph or more is 2d4x10 damage to the humanoid target and 4d6 damage. counting as 3 APM. (this is the best fit to the tactics described.)
And the plane crash damage is, for things under 1000 lb., 1d6 damage/10mph for speeds under 720 mph, and 1d6 damage/mph for speeds over 720mph.

If the damage is in MD, SDC AR is ignored.

Head ripping off: Roll a strike to grab (or entangle) would be the 1st APM, the second would be a..... There is not rules to cover this. I would have it a conventional Power punch damage. If that does MD see comments on AR and MD.

What is "aoe"? Is it some Acronym that did not get Capitalized nor written out fully before shortening?

[Traska]

As a MMO player, I can answer that. AoE is "Area of Effect", meaning the attack affects multiple targets, like a grenade (circular AoE) or a fan of gunfire (cone AoE).

[Armorlord]

Ok the zombies are a combination of pestilence one of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse imparting some of its essence to Dead reign style zombies. I figured it would be more of a challenge if they kept there AR.

Well, generally, you don't combine AR and MDC, outside of partial armor and most of the time not even then. DR-style zombies have AR in SDC worlds because the unneeded flesh serves as a buffer against bullets and machetes hitting nerves. Once MDC, they have unnaturally tough flesh due to magic, and they'd be facing weapons meant to cleave through similar toughness and energy blasts. He'd still need to make called shots to hit the head though. Like I said before, stopping MDC Dark Reign zombies should be a problem even for a Cosmo-Knight.

As for the ramming through them, if he wanted to apply collision damage, that damage applies both ways, so not that healthy for him.

On the movement, given the cosmic nature I wouldn't bring wind resistance or sonic boom into the equation at all, nor reaction time issues given that they can maneuver at faster-than-light speeds as well with same said power. Besides that, 'destroying towns and people' is not mentioned in the Cosmic Forge empowered defender's power either, they are purpose built to fly to the rescue.

The thing to remember about Cosmo-Knights is that they are the top example for the Cosmic Mega-Hero power level. Godlings and Mega-Heroes take shotgun and backseat to these humanoid battleships of justice.

[drewkitty ~..~]

As a MMO player, I can answer that. AoE is "Area of Effect", meaning the attack affects multiple targets, like a grenade (circular AoE) or a fan of gunfire (cone AoE).

TY, went to bed right after posting. So my brain was not handling 'out of normal format' typos right then. If it had been typed as AoE it probably would of clicked.

[BloodAnjiel]

Two more questions about cosmo knight armor; 1: How many times can you summon the armor? There is nothing in phase world that says there is a limit, I just want others' opinions on this. 2: Is the knight's armor skin tight and can the helmet be detached by anyone or anything but the knight?

[drewkitty ~..~]

1: there is no "per min/hr/day/year" limit to how many times they can summon their armor. However, if the armor has been fully depleted then it needs a min. for it to regen 10-40 MDC to be able to re-summomoned.

2a) yes it is skin tight. i.e.: it does not chafe the CK nor does it cause skill penalties.
2b) there is no text about if anyone other then the CK can remove their armor.

[mobuttu]

[1] Megadamage Knockdown is described on RUE345.

AFAIK, There is no rule describing a MDC beign going through SDC criatures.

I'd say CosKn would deal [1] damage to the zombies (trace a straight "zombie" line in the flying direction and subtract damage from the first to the last until 0 damage is reach)...("I see flying zombies all around").

[mobuttu]

[1] Megadamage Knockdown is described on RUE345.
346 in mine actually. Thanks for the heads up though, I had been using the rules in GMG pg. 30.

That's right. Sorry for the typo.

[drewkitty ~..~]

How would you kill a cosmo knight if when ever you wore its armor down he just re summoned it?

The cosmo knight armor was dropped to 100 mdc the cosmo would re summon his armor with all mdc..

Later the armor would be completely destroyed!!! Then 1 turn later come back with full strength.

1: there is no "per min/hr/day/year" limit to how many times they can summon their armor. However, if the armor has been fully depleted then it needs a min. for it to regen 10-40 MDC to be able to re-summomoned.

[Tor]

All this talk of Cosmo-Knights killing zombies has me wondering if a Fallen Knight could choose to worship Brulyx and be a Zombie Priest from Dead Reign. That PPE could come in handy in the congregation isn't big enough for the masses.