Release your inner munchkin!

[glitterboy2098]

lets see.. i'd say a Mulka, but the Rifts;manhunter book is fairly hard to get.

sticking to current palladium products..

someone here on the forums wrote up a Spermwhale Cosmo-Knight..

there is also ways the Zebuloid gunslinger..

hmm..

[Killer Cyborg]

Here's one I wrote up a while back.
The request there was for a CS character, but the background could be changed easily enough.

When Prosek enter the dark chamber in the heart of the Lonestar Complex, he recoiled in horror at what he saw. He didn't know whether to have Bradford executed or to give him a medal for what he had done.
He chose the medal.
But once he saw the footage of this creature in action, watched it tearing into a group of D-Bee terrorists, he almost reconsidered.
The only thing that held him in check was the look of horror on the faces of the dying D-Bees as they were ripped into chunks of screaming bloody flesh.
Prosek recoiled, but the darkest part of him rejoiced. This is what that part longed for, something not just to kill the invaders of this dimension, but to give them nightmares, to fill them with terror and pain to such a degree that it overflowed their minds and spilled into the minds of their children, and their children's children, and every other filthy alien that defiled the Earth with their presence.
He wanted that terror and pain, he coveted it.
For with it came power, power that would belong to him.

The Voracious One
OCC/RCC: Mutant Weasel Hyperion Juicer
Level: 9
Alignment: Diabolic
Attributes: I.Q.: 10, M.E.: 11, M.A.: 13, P.S.: 36 (44 total) (supernatural), P.P.: 34, P.E.: 30, P.B.: 12 , Spd.: 149
MDC: 120
Height: 3 inches (8' 3" total) Weight: 400 lbs
Sex: Male. P.P.E.:
Bio-E: 125 total
Insanity: hyper-reactive (30% chance of reacting violently when startled). Has no conscious control over Growth power, and is stuck at his current size.
Disposition: Edgy, angry, and hungry. He often begins devouring foes immediately after battle, if they look edible.
Super Powers: Growth (45 Bio-E)
Natural Abilities: Full Hands (10 Bio-E), Full Biped (10 Bio-E), Size Level 1 (0 Bio-E), Increased Metabolic Rate (20 Bio-E) (must eat more than own body weight each day, combined with the Hyperion Juicer penalty for a total of over 2x his own body weight each day), heals 4x normal, lifts/carries 4x normal, Impervious to Pain,
Saving Throws: +4 vs. psionics, +4 vs. Mind Control, +9 vs. diseases/gasses/poisons/drugs (and 1/2 duration), +20% to save vs. coma/death
Skills of Note: Acrobatics (+5%), Climbing (+5%), Gymnastics (+5%), Land Navigation (+15%), Radio: Basic (+10%), Wilderness Survival (+10%), Spanish and Dragonese (+10%), WP Knife, WP Energy Rifle, WP Heavy Energy, HTH Expert, Aerobic Athletics, Athletics, Body Building, Boxing, Juggling,Kick Boxing, Physical Labor, Prowl, Running, Swimming, Wrestling, Forced March, Deadball, Juicer Football, Murderthon, WP Paired Weapons (from HTH)
Psionics: Mind Trap (25 Bio-E), Mind Block (15 Bio-E)

Combat
Attacks Per Melee: 11
Bonuses (total): +13 initiative, +16 to strike, +20 to parry, +23 to dodge, +2 damage, +6 to pull punch, +12 to roll with impact, +4 disarm, jump/leap 100' across after a short run (50' from standing position) and/or 50' high (half without the run), Kick attack 3d6+2 SDC, Power Kick 1d6 MD, auto parry, auto dodge (even on attacks from behind, etc.), Pin/incapacitate on natural 18+, Critical strike on natural 18+

Cybernetics/Bionics:
Hyperion Juicer Conversion, retractable Bionic Claws (2d6+4 MD) on both hands, Cybernetic O2 Storage Cell, Toxic Filter, Amplified Hearing w/ sound filtration (+1 parry, +2 dodge, +3 initiative), internal tracking device and cortex bomb, Recycler, Modulating Voice Synthesizer

Weapons & Equipment of Note:
Bionic Claws
Mega-damage: 8d6+6 MD (2d6+6 MD, plus punch damage of 6d6 MD)
He tends to use these in paired attacks, when he feels that his auto-dodge will be able to defend him.

CA-6EX Armor
200 MDC
+8 PS, +14 SPD, +10' to jumps/leaps, reduces fatigue by 50%
-30% prowl, -10% swim, acrobatics, gymnastics, etc.), no penalties to climb.
HUD, Computer & video link, optical enhancements, laser distancer, laser targeting (+1 strike)

CTT-M2 Missile Rifle
For times when close combat is not acceptable. Usually loaded with armor piercing missiles.

Silver Dog Pack Spikes
Worn over armor, for encounters with undead.

[Slight001]

I'm meeting up with a new GM tomorrow as he wants to look over my new PC for his campaign. As he's a bit new to rifts and I'm an old dog, I figured I'd prank him a bit by presenting the most overpowered piece of munchkin bait possible before showing him my real character. What are your suggestions? Preferrably complete with rules lawyering of the worst kind.

Right now I'm trying to work out a way to stack godling, cosmo-knight and juicer bonuses...

Or maybe I should just go for the plain weird, like a vampire sperm whale.
/Joel

lol...

Alright how about this one. A Quick-Flex Alien, Battle Magus? They are both S.D.C. and the QFA's write up says and I quote "Most Quick Flex aren't particularly interested in the pursuits of magic, preferring to rely upon their natural physical powers." Most by it's very nature means the majority but not the entirety of a population or item... in this case QFA's which means that there are Quick Flex Mages... they just are rare and player characters are the exceptions not the rule.

Another (far more out there) option is the Demigod, Momano Headhunter, Partial TW Bionic Conversion with the powers and abilities of an Intuitive Warrior (found in The Rifter #25 page 70, iirc) that was granted demigod status (personally I'd down grade stat boosts to S.D.C./H.P. equivalents and Augmented strength only, but that's just me...) and the mystically bestowed equivalent of the Battle Magus's powers and abilities.

The Momano brings a fair number of skills (some garbage in class skills section...) and the joy of having P.P.E. and Bionics (TW no less) all at once and it provides an inbuilt system for the Intuitive Warrior to join the mix. The Intuitive Warrior brings an immunity to surprise attacks and at lvl 4 gains an auto-dodge (the only time I've played this one it was ran as a +4 auto-dodge (with P.P. bonuses of course) gained at lvl 4. However the wording could allow for the potential to have all of ones dodge bonus converted to an auto-dodge equivalent. As for the Battle Magus? well... I like their bonuses and over all feel... sadly I've never gotten to play one. In this case the demigod aspect is just the glue holding the

The one time I tried the GM didn't like the idea of a Talus Battle Mage... he seemed nervous... I can't imagine why he'd be nervous I really wanted to try out that tail casting idea...

[Shark_Force]

@killer cyborg: i didn't think HU mutant animals were allowed to have both superpowers and animal psionics...

[glitterboy2098]

ATB allows you to buy super powers with large amounts of BIO-E. and it doesn't ban the mix of superpowers and animal psi.

[Killer Cyborg]

@killer cyborg: i didn't think HU mutant animals were allowed to have both superpowers and animal psionics...

TMNT Adventures has rules for creating mutant animals with super powers, and these rules allow for psionics in addition to the powers, as well as giving a bonus 50 Bio-E.

[Faceless Dude]

I'm meeting up with a new GM tomorrow as he wants to look over my new PC for his campaign. As he's a bit new to rifts and I'm an old dog, I figured I'd prank him a bit by presenting the most overpowered piece of munchkin bait possible before showing him my real character. What are your suggestions? Preferrably complete with rules lawyering of the worst kind.

Right now I'm trying to work out a way to stack godling, cosmo-knight and juicer bonuses...

Or maybe I should just go for the plain weird, like a vampire sperm whale.
/Joel

The Demon Queller from Rifts Japan is listed in the Game Masters Guide as a Scholar/Adventurer OCC. as such, it is eligible for super powers as per the Conversion Book. So take a character that is MDC and a spellcaster already, add, say, Supernatural Strength, Invulnerability, Alter Metabolism, extraordinary PP, Spd, and Radar

There are probably better optimization, that's just off the top of my head

[Giant2005]

Just roll up a Hundred-Handed or a Greater Norse Giant. If it is just a joke character, I'd much rather take the easier, pre-designed munchkin route than spend a lot of time doing a custom Munchkin job.

[Grell]

I vote for Vampire Sperm Whale. Classic.

[SAMASzero]

I don't think a single vampire can drink that much blood...

[dragonfett]

I don't think that vampires need to drink all of the blood from a victim, in fact it's better if they didn't IIRC.

[Nightmask]

I don't think a single vampire can drink that much blood...

If it's a Master Vampire it doesn't have to result from any blood drinking, since Masters are the result of a willing contract with a Vampire Intelligence. Only primary and secondary vampires result from blood drinking, not the masters.

[Mack]

Hmm... here's one that's "under the radar" powerful.

True Atlantean Cyber-Knight, with Master Psionics, 6 Magic Tattoos, and who then becomes a Cold Blooded (from Merc Adventures).

[dragonfett]

That sounds like my pbp character, except for tho whole Cold Blooded thing (and six tattoos, my character only has four).

There is another high powered pbp game that I made a character for that I made a 5th level master psychic Rahu-Man Cyber Knight (taking every physical skill that I could including Boxing and Fencing) with a Tri-Tops mount.

[Faceless Dude]

That sounds like my pbp character, except for tho whole Cold Blooded thing (and six tattoos, my character only has four).

There is another high powered pbp game that I made a character for that I made a 5th level master psychic Rahu-Man Cyber Knight (taking every physical skill that I could including Boxing and Fencing) with a Tri-Tops mount.

I have an NPC Rahu-Man Mystic Knight that is a recurring boogeyman for my players. He's pretty terrifying for being just a race and an OCC

[Akashic Soldier]

Scarecrow Burster, as far as I know only two ways to kill it in the entire game and they are exotic and easily avoided.

[Johnathan]

I had an Elf Cyber-Knight PC that had been trained in Zanji-Shinjiken Ryu, from N&SS and had the chi abilities that went with it. He also was a master level psychic who had opened his third eye. He also used the WP Specialization/Mastery skills that were presented in one of the Rifters (The exact number escapes me right now). Well, with the unique combination of skills, psionics, training and chi abilities. The guy was practically untouchable in combat. His combat bonuses were all in the 20's.

I retired him due to time conflicts and the game I was playing not really meshing well with my work schedule/sleep schedule/home life. However, when everything was said and done, he was an 9th level Cyber-Knight, 6th level Tribal Warrior and was capable of bisecting a Netherbeast with one strike. Comparing number to number, this guy would've been able to take on Gods, single-handedly, and had a very good chance of, if not winning, surviving the encounter. He was one of my greatest creations, but, like all things, went the way of the back burner. He tickled my munchkin bone a lot and also recieved a Nekira Seal of Approval.

[Ice Dragon]

1) Mega Hero + 6 tattoos
2) Godling with 6 tattoos and greater rune weapon (soul drinker) who survived being stacked to Yggdrasill (giving him/her all magic powers)
3) 5th level True Atlantean Temporal Warrior with 6 tattoos who owns a PA (Silver Hawk from Phase World).
4) Dominator

[Blue_Lion]

How about a norse elf who did the ritural for wisdom at the world tree(deties and demi gods.) and is a TW start with a TW convteted Super APC moble base from Triax 2, with the mend the broken spell (cost reduced to 1 PPE per 1 K mdc) and 64 pack of anitlate mini missles. His amor has warror hoard (reduced down to 10 PPE) and the anilate spell (reduced down to 1 ppe)

[Chronicle]

Chiang-ku Technowizard who survived being pinned to that darn tree. That alone RCC + OCC are bad enough.......Had to RP through the TW training......but it can happen

[Tor]

Not sure why everyone wants to get pinned to that darn tree. It doesn't give you anything you couldn't otherwise get with enough time and credits to learn the magic.

Heck by the time you reach level 15 you might've already bought all the level 15 spells, assuming you'd use them that often.

True Atlantean Cyber-Knight, with Master Psionics, 6 Magic Tattoos, and who then becomes a Cold Blooded (from Merc Adventures).

First am hearing of this cold-blooded thing, what's that?

How about a norse elf who did the ritural for wisdom at the world tree(deties and demi gods.) and is a TW start with a TW convteted Super APC moble base from Triax 2, with the mend the broken spell (cost reduced to 1 PPE per 1 K mdc) and 64 pack of anitlate mini missles. His amor has warror hoard (reduced down to 10 PPE) and the anilate spell (reduced down to 1 ppe)

I don't really understand these PPE reductions.

When people ask for munchkin stuff, it's assumed that the character still follows the rules. Otherwise you could just be all "my char has a billion MDC and does a million MD per hit" and be done with it.

[Slight001]

I don't really understand these PPE reductions.

That's a quirk of the RUE TW creation rules where you can overbuild the device to reduce the P.P.E. cost needed to active the device.

[flatline]

I don't really understand these PPE reductions.

That's a quirk of the RUE TW creation rules where you can overbuild the device to reduce the P.P.E. cost needed to active the device.

Totally ripe for abuse. If I were GM'ing a game, I wouldn't use them as written.

My proof of concept TW device was a vehicle enhancement that instantly repaired 200MDC for 1 PPE.

--flatline

[Tor]

Oh, more and more changes I learn about RUE adding to the game as time goes on, guess I should buy that thing in hardcover eventually. My curled-cover RMB could use a rest.

Power creep aside, it would be nice to have a better idea of how to make TW devices because it was always left kinda vague how to make new ones.

Even for the ones which are already given stats, it's never too clear how long they take to make for a TW, if they have to make skill rolls, how much money it costs to make it, etc.

[Killer Cyborg]

Not sure why everyone wants to get pinned to that darn tree. It doesn't give you anything you couldn't otherwise get with enough time and credits to learn the magic.

Heck by the time you reach level 15 you might've already bought all the level 15 spells, assuming you'd use them that often.

If you're a mage to start with.
If you're a power armor pilot, Juicer, Etc., it's not necessarily that easy.

But it's not the kind of thing that a GM would/should let a starting character have already done.

[eliakon]

The most insane character I was ever offered
Promethian/Demi-God of Zurvan
Parent Power: 4-D being
Divine Power: Magic as per the 1st ed BTS Arcanist (ALL magic of all kinds of its level, including circles)
OCC was an HU Experiment: Invunerability, Karmic Power, Intangiblity
then they used the HU1 skill rules to get a N&SS martial art for the natural 19 AR from the body hardening....

the resulting munchkin had 1000+ sdc, hundreds of hp, took 1/4 damage from the few things that can harm it (chi, psi, magic) loads of spells, psionics, phase powers.........

I wish this was a joke character too

[Mack]

Oh, more and more changes I learn about RUE adding to the game as time goes on, guess I should buy that thing in hardcover eventually. My curled-cover RMB could use a rest.

Power creep aside, it would be nice to have a better idea of how to make TW devices because it was always left kinda vague how to make new ones.

Even for the ones which are already given stats, it's never too clear how long they take to make for a TW, if they have to make skill rolls, how much money it costs to make it, etc.

RUE has an optional set of rules for creating TW devices. However, they are rather unwieldy and ripe for abuse once analyzed. They require (and encourage) solid GM oversight.

[Shark_Force]

Oh, more and more changes I learn about RUE adding to the game as time goes on, guess I should buy that thing in hardcover eventually. My curled-cover RMB could use a rest.

Power creep aside, it would be nice to have a better idea of how to make TW devices because it was always left kinda vague how to make new ones.

Even for the ones which are already given stats, it's never too clear how long they take to make for a TW, if they have to make skill rolls, how much money it costs to make it, etc.

RUE has an optional set of rules for creating TW devices. However, they are rather unwieldy and ripe for abuse once analyzed. They require (and encourage) solid GM oversight.

indeed. it's a bit silly to say that the TW device creation rules can get out of hand if the GM allows it when truthfully, this can be said of every single rule system in existence. it's like pun-pun the kobold from D&D: yes, technically the rules say you can do it. no, it isn't an example of what kind of character you should expect to be able to have in a normal game.

sure, you can add 500 pounds of gems to your TW device to make it cost next to nothing to activate (and often make the device itself cheaper, too). but first, the GM has to agree that the device is possible. in fact, i would say the more accurate way to use the rules as described is that the player says "I want to make <insert concept here>" and the GM looks through the TW device creation rules and says "OK, here's what you'll need to make the attempt".

players can certainly suggest specific spell chains and amounts of gems used, but ultimately it's up to the GM to make the decision... if you *allow* the rules to be manipulated to the point of abuse, then yes, the rules can be abused. but, as i said... that's true of almost any rule system in existence, including the legal systems of many countries which are carefully designed by numerous highly-educated individuals and kept regularly updated in an effort to make them work well. if dozens or hundreds of lawyers can't make an airtight system of rules after constant tweaks over hundreds of years, it is not reasonable to expect a small RPG company to accomplish that feat in what was likely a few months of writing and testing.

[Blue_Lion]

Not sure why everyone wants to get pinned to that darn tree. It doesn't give you anything you couldn't otherwise get with enough time and credits to learn the magic.

Heck by the time you reach level 15 you might've already bought all the level 15 spells, assuming you'd use them that often.

True Atlantean Cyber-Knight, with Master Psionics, 6 Magic Tattoos, and who then becomes a Cold Blooded (from Merc Adventures).

First am hearing of this cold-blooded thing, what's that?

How about a norse elf who did the ritural for wisdom at the world tree(deties and demi gods.) and is a TW start with a TW convteted Super APC moble base from Triax 2, with the mend the broken spell (cost reduced to 1 PPE per 1 K mdc) and 64 pack of anitlate mini missles. His amor has warror hoard (reduced down to 10 PPE) and the anilate spell (reduced down to 1 ppe)

I don't really understand these PPE reductions.

When people ask for munchkin stuff, it's assumed that the character still follows the rules. Otherwise you could just be all "my char has a billion MDC and does a million MD per hit" and be done with it.

UMM no spells hight level spells are supose to be hard to get, they will not just be for sale. They are treated like national secerts in mage cities.

[Shark_Force]

that kinda breaks down when you go to places where everything is for sale, like splynncryth for example.

it's hard to justify that there's supposedly nobody interested in selling powerful spells at any price when you've got the possibility (not a good one, mind you, but still a possibility) of finding a sword of atlantis for sale or something like that.

i think the main problem is that for magic users, there are relatively few things they want which you can buy with large amounts of money. this is why they wouldn't trade a powerful spell for money in most cases. but when you can teach a spell, and gain enough money to buy extremely powerful magic items that most magic users actually will be interested in (not just rune weapons, there's lots of interesting stuff in those kinds of markets)... well, money actually has enough value at that point. or at least, a sufficiently large amount of money does.

[Necrite]

pun-pun the kobold

I had to look that up. That's ridiculous.

It's also a perfect example of why I like Palladium's system over WotC's D&D. With every rule set in stone, things like that become simple, because if the GM says "No, that's not how it works", the rules lawyer can pull out some book that supports him and say "Yes, it is."
Palladium's more organic rules set allows creativeness in both character creation and game play without allowing a player to crush the game because the rules say it's OK. Palladium's rules DO allow ridiculous levels of munchkinism, but when the rule books explicitly tell you that the rules are not set in stone, and that you, the GM, are the final arbiter, the rules lawyers have less of a leg to stand on.

I'd still rather have the books a little more organized (Rules go HERE, story stuff goes THERE, and never the twain shall meet!), but we really don't need everything broken down and codified like D&D3 did.

[Natasha]

Oh, more and more changes I learn about RUE adding to the game as time goes on, guess I should buy that thing in hardcover eventually. My curled-cover RMB could use a rest.

Power creep aside, it would be nice to have a better idea of how to make TW devices because it was always left kinda vague how to make new ones.

Even for the ones which are already given stats, it's never too clear how long they take to make for a TW, if they have to make skill rolls, how much money it costs to make it, etc.

RUE has an optional set of rules for creating TW devices. However, they are rather unwieldy and ripe for abuse once analyzed. They require (and encourage) solid GM oversight.

It seems that a lot of people miss the part that the GM takes what the player creates and then gives the player what the character gets.

Note: Players do not choose the exact final effects of a TW device; they only tell a Game Master what they wish the device to do. It is always the Game Master’s call as to exactly how something turns out. It may be more or less powerful than the player originally thought it should be, but the player and G.M. can work together to improve the design.

[Mack]

Oh, more and more changes I learn about RUE adding to the game as time goes on, guess I should buy that thing in hardcover eventually. My curled-cover RMB could use a rest.

Power creep aside, it would be nice to have a better idea of how to make TW devices because it was always left kinda vague how to make new ones.

Even for the ones which are already given stats, it's never too clear how long they take to make for a TW, if they have to make skill rolls, how much money it costs to make it, etc.

RUE has an optional set of rules for creating TW devices. However, they are rather unwieldy and ripe for abuse once analyzed. They require (and encourage) solid GM oversight.

It seems that a lot of people miss the part that the GM takes what the player creates and then gives the player what the character gets.

Note: Players do not choose the exact final effects of a TW device; they only tell a Game Master what they wish the device to do. It is always the Game Master’s call as to exactly how something turns out. It may be more or less powerful than the player originally thought it should be, but the player and G.M. can work together to improve the design.

Hence the last sentence of my post.

[Natasha]

Oh, more and more changes I learn about RUE adding to the game as time goes on, guess I should buy that thing in hardcover eventually. My curled-cover RMB could use a rest.

Power creep aside, it would be nice to have a better idea of how to make TW devices because it was always left kinda vague how to make new ones.

Even for the ones which are already given stats, it's never too clear how long they take to make for a TW, if they have to make skill rolls, how much money it costs to make it, etc.

RUE has an optional set of rules for creating TW devices. However, they are rather unwieldy and ripe for abuse once analyzed. They require (and encourage) solid GM oversight.

It seems that a lot of people miss the part that the GM takes what the player creates and then gives the player what the character gets.

Note: Players do not choose the exact final effects of a TW device; they only tell a Game Master what they wish the device to do. It is always the Game Master’s call as to exactly how something turns out. It may be more or less powerful than the player originally thought it should be, but the player and G.M. can work together to improve the design.

Hence the last sentence of my post.

Aye; I was having your back.
Sorry if it came off otherwise.

[Shark_Force]

pun-pun the kobold

I had to look that up. That's ridiculous.

It's also a perfect example of why I like Palladium's system over WotC's D&D. With every rule set in stone, things like that become simple, because if the GM says "No, that's not how it works", the rules lawyer can pull out some book that supports him and say "Yes, it is."
Palladium's more organic rules set allows creativeness in both character creation and game play without allowing a player to crush the game because the rules say it's OK. Palladium's rules DO allow ridiculous levels of munchkinism, but when the rule books explicitly tell you that the rules are not set in stone, and that you, the GM, are the final arbiter, the rules lawyers have less of a leg to stand on.

I'd still rather have the books a little more organized (Rules go HERE, story stuff goes THERE, and never the twain shall meet!), but we really don't need everything broken down and codified like D&D3 did.

this is silly. the first rule, literally called rule zero, in 3.5 D&D, is that you can change the rules.

but that's beside the point. unless your DM/GM is a robot, i guarantee you, you have NEVER played ANY remotely complex RPG exactly the way the rules say you should. *technically* the rules for 3.5 D&D say you can make pun-pun the kobold happen. *technically* the rules for palladium say that if you make a burster (or mystic knight) scarecrow, you have a completely invincible character that can never be killed by anything no matter what. there really isn't a significant difference. in fact, to pull off pun-pun the kobold, you have to jump through a heck of a lot more hoops than the scarecrow cheese i just mentioned (this is true for most of the classic ridiculous D&D builds... hulking hurler, wish and the word, nanobots, etc). and in both cases, the solution is identical. when a player says "but this is how it's supposed to work", the GM/DM says "no. that isn't happening in my game. now go make something reasonable".

the ability to alter the rules is not unique to palladium i will say that in palladium, you are much more likely to be *forced* to modify the rules, and that you will get further in many other systems before your GM/DM is forced to modify something just to make the game function at all, but it is a core assumption of any pen and paper RPG i have ever played or seen that you will change things to work the way you want. in many cases, it is an assumption that is clearly spelled out right in the rule books.

[Giant2005]

pun-pun the kobold

I had to look that up. That's ridiculous.

It's also a perfect example of why I like Palladium's system over WotC's D&D. With every rule set in stone, things like that become simple, because if the GM says "No, that's not how it works", the rules lawyer can pull out some book that supports him and say "Yes, it is."
Palladium's more organic rules set allows creativeness in both character creation and game play without allowing a player to crush the game because the rules say it's OK. Palladium's rules DO allow ridiculous levels of munchkinism, but when the rule books explicitly tell you that the rules are not set in stone, and that you, the GM, are the final arbiter, the rules lawyers have less of a leg to stand on.

I'd still rather have the books a little more organized (Rules go HERE, story stuff goes THERE, and never the twain shall meet!), but we really don't need everything broken down and codified like D&D3 did.

this is silly. the first rule, literally called rule zero, in 3.5 D&D, is that you can change the rules.

but that's beside the point. unless your DM/GM is a robot, i guarantee you, you have NEVER played ANY remotely complex RPG exactly the way the rules say you should. *technically* the rules for 3.5 D&D say you can make pun-pun the kobold happen. *technically* the rules for palladium say that if you make a burster (or mystic knight) scarecrow, you have a completely invincible character that can never be killed by anything no matter what. there really isn't a significant difference. in fact, to pull off pun-pun the kobold, you have to jump through a heck of a lot more hoops than the scarecrow cheese i just mentioned (this is true for most of the classic ridiculous D&D builds... hulking hurler, wish and the word, nanobots, etc). and in both cases, the solution is identical. when a player says "but this is how it's supposed to work", the GM/DM says "no. that isn't happening in my game. now go make something reasonable".

the ability to alter the rules is not unique to palladium i will say that in palladium, you are much more likely to be *forced* to modify the rules, and that you will get further in many other systems before your GM/DM is forced to modify something just to make the game function at all, but it is a core assumption of any pen and paper RPG i have ever played or seen that you will change things to work the way you want. in many cases, it is an assumption that is clearly spelled out right in the rule books.

Didn't CB1r fix the Burster Scarecrow thing?
It says under their psionics that they can be Major Psionic or be a Mystic. It sounds like Master Psionics is out of the question.
The Mystic Knight thing would still be possible I guess but they are vulnerable to magic fire so it wouldn't be completely indestructible.

[Shark_Force]

The Mystic Knight thing would still be possible I guess but they are vulnerable to magic fire so it wouldn't be completely indestructible.

*shrug* as has been demonstrated in this thread, it's hardly the only broken thing you can do. as has been demonstrated in various other threads over the years, it was a comparatively tame combination anyways. some of the stuff you can do if your GM lets you get away with it is utterly ridiculous (like the fact that an earth warlock can - technically - repeatedly inhabit new bodies and use the new SDC (or MDC) to create golems. most people - or at least all the ones i've seen chime in - agree the earth warlock should not be able to use a new body's SDC/HP/MDC to create new golems. but officially, it works, and is a frankly shameless abuse of the rules to get a result that doesn't seem to have ever been what was intended. there's plenty more stuff like that, where the only thing stopping ridiculous cheese is GM discretion... and you'll find that sort of thing in pretty much any system. yes, even the super-restrictive ones like 4th edition D&D, where so far as i am aware given a sufficiently large number of people and an object to pass down a line of said people, you can accelerate an object to beyond the speed of light (using readied actions to have a line of people hand an object to the next person in the line).

[wyrmraker]

Depending on which versions of the rules your GM has, you could pull an original recipe full-sized Zentraedi Cosmo Knight. Their PS is rolled normally, then multiplied by 100. Cosmo Knight would make it Supernatural. Everything else would go up as per Cosmo-Knight.
Imagine the Cosmic Weapon for a 50' tall guy. It would do a heck of a lot more than a piddly 1d6x10 md.
Then again, there's also the alien generation tables in Phase World. Go ahead, look them up. You can make mortal godlings with epic amounts of magic and psychic abilities. And it's 100% by the book. Doesn't even go into crossover material.

[dragonfett]

Depending on which versions of the rules your GM has, you could pull an original recipe full-sized Zentraedi Cosmo Knight. Their PS is rolled normally, then multiplied by 100. Cosmo Knight would make it Supernatural. Everything else would go up as per Cosmo-Knight.
Imagine the Cosmic Weapon for a 50' tall guy. It would do a heck of a lot more than a piddly 1d6x10 md.
Then again, there's also the alien generation tables in Phase World. Go ahead, look them up. You can make mortal godlings with epic amounts of magic and psychic abilities. And it's 100% by the book. Doesn't even go into crossover material.

[Nightmask]

Depending on which versions of the rules your GM has, you could pull an original recipe full-sized Zentraedi Cosmo Knight. Their PS is rolled normally, then multiplied by 100. Cosmo Knight would make it Supernatural. Everything else would go up as per Cosmo-Knight.
Imagine the Cosmic Weapon for a 50' tall guy. It would do a heck of a lot more than a piddly 1d6x10 md.
Then again, there's also the alien generation tables in Phase World. Go ahead, look them up. You can make mortal godlings with epic amounts of magic and psychic abilities. And it's 100% by the book. Doesn't even go into crossover material.

The way the rules are written the cosmic weapon actually wouldn't do anymore damage, so a 6" tall, 6' tall, and 60' tall Cosmo-Knight will deal pretty much the same amount of damage when attacking.

[wyrmraker]

Depending on which versions of the rules your GM has, you could pull an original recipe full-sized Zentraedi Cosmo Knight. Their PS is rolled normally, then multiplied by 100. Cosmo Knight would make it Supernatural. Everything else would go up as per Cosmo-Knight.
Imagine the Cosmic Weapon for a 50' tall guy. It would do a heck of a lot more than a piddly 1d6x10 md.
Then again, there's also the alien generation tables in Phase World. Go ahead, look them up. You can make mortal godlings with epic amounts of magic and psychic abilities. And it's 100% by the book. Doesn't even go into crossover material.

The way the rules are written the cosmic weapon actually wouldn't do anymore damage, so a 6" tall, 6' tall, and 60' tall Cosmo-Knight will deal pretty much the same amount of damage when attacking.

Yeah, I know how the rules are writ. I never said it made sense. But an original recipe Zentraedi gone Cosmo-Kight would have, on average, a 1500 PS, Supernatural. That guy could wield starfighters as clubs.

[Tor]

Why's everyone afraid of Scarecrows immune to all fire attacks? Just trap them and make them eternal prisoners or something =/

Any idea how these new TW rules would apply to those TW variants in one of the Rifters?

[flatline]

Why's everyone afraid of Scarecrows immune to all fire attacks? Just trap them and make them eternal prisoners or something =/

Because video games and movies have trained a whole generation to think that killing the villain is the only way to have a happy ending.

Which is a shame, really. Villains are often expected to single-handedly present a challenge to the entire party which means that if you can manage it, they can make extremely powerful allies.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Why's everyone afraid of Scarecrows immune to all fire attacks? Just trap them and make them eternal prisoners or something =/

Because video games and movies have trained a whole generation to think that killing the villain is the only way to have a happy ending.

That's why massage parlors are better than video games and movies.

[Nightmask]

Why's everyone afraid of Scarecrows immune to all fire attacks? Just trap them and make them eternal prisoners or something =/

Because video games and movies have trained a whole generation to think that killing the villain is the only way to have a happy ending.

Which is a shame, really. Villains are often expected to single-handedly present a challenge to the entire party which means that if you can manage it, they can make extremely powerful allies.

--flatline

Not really, since video games and movies have also made it clear the moment you defeat a powerful villain he promptly becomes weak and fairly ineffective compared to the heroes. Just look at Vegeta, once he completed his turn from villainy he became easy prey, even just starting on that path had him gettingly curb stomped and snuffed by Freeza. Villains almost never get to keep being powerful once defeated and turned into allies of the hero(es).

[flatline]

Why's everyone afraid of Scarecrows immune to all fire attacks? Just trap them and make them eternal prisoners or something =/

Because video games and movies have trained a whole generation to think that killing the villain is the only way to have a happy ending.

That's why massage parlors are better than video games and movies.

No argument here.

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

Why's everyone afraid of Scarecrows immune to all fire attacks? Just trap them and make them eternal prisoners or something =/

Because a lifetime of movies, games, and sequals have taught us that imprisoning the enemy only garentee's they'll escape, and they never stop escaping until they're killed for good.

[Tor]

I guess, a lot of great heroes manage to deal with them though, less NPC creation work for GMs if they can reuse too

Scarecrows may not actually die unless burned up, but I'm pretty sure you can mutilate them decently enough to neutralize them as a threat. If you tear off a scarecrow's arms and legs and torso and bury them in separate areas, it'll be a lot of work for his allies to retrieve and unify them so he can walk again. Just think of how messed up the scarecrow was in Oz when Dorothy found him.