Traditional Magical Items (The Talisman Spell)

[Akashic Soldier]

Warning: The purpose of this thread is to discuss the impact of the Talisman, Create Scroll and Enchant Weapon Spells and its uses. It is not to discuss Techno-Wizardry.

The Talisman Spell is one of the most powerful spells in the entire game and although if used with wisdom and discretion it is a really amazing spell that can enrich your game. However, more than a lot of other spells it is rife for abuse and misuse - at least in my opinion.

I figured it was time we make a thread dedicated to traditional magic and magical items on Rifts Earth. Within the setting it is clear that a lot of Practitioners of Magic turn up their nose at Techno-Wizardry like we turn up our nose at bell-bottoms and afros. So, how common do you make traditional magical items in your Rifts game and what experiences do you have (if any) with them?

[drewkitty ~..~]

I tend to have more normal magic items then any other.

[Necrite]

Hmm... CAN Talisman by itself make "traditional magic items"? Yes, it holds a spell for you, but I never really thought of it as allowing a non-caster to use a spell. I always kind of looked at it like like D&D's spell scrolls - if it isn't on your spell list, you can't activate it. I don't have my books with me at work, so I can't look it up myself.
The fact that only the creator can recharge a Talisman makes me look at them as "disposable" magic items at best, unless the owner is or regularly associates with the creator.

As far as scrolls go, I don't use them often in Rifts or HU. They don't seem like they should be common in those settings, in my opinion. I make them more available in PFRPG.

I usually use either published magic items, or create my own to distribute, without worrying too much about how they were made or what spells were used. After all, other than TW stuff, there aren't any item creation rules, so why should I worry about making the items "right"? I'd rather make sure that they're balanced.

I also try to keep "high end" equipment, be it magic, Techno-Wizardry, or big guns and RPAs, rare. Yes, the PCs are the 1% who have all the fancy toys. But most of the people they run into AREN'T, So there just isn't a Triax Ulti-Max sitting abandoned in that facility just because one of the PCs wants one. Likewise, a magic sword that does its damage in MD and has +1 to strike and +2 to parry is a big deal, not just something to throw at a shopkeeper to get a few extra credits later.

[Shark_Force]

yes, talisman works for anyone. as do scrolls for that matter (well, anyone who can read in the case of scrolls).

[gaby]

Well ther two types of Talismans type (1) Store PPE,this allow Magic OCC to cast spells without touching ther own PPE,s reserves.
Type2 (2) Store Spells,I think Spells that the Magic OCC das not known like a 3 level Ley line walker,will have a talisman that store 5 level spell.

I would allow Scrolls to be like a type 2 talisman,but a One-shot deal for each scrolls.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Well ther two types of Talismans type (1) Store PPE,this allow Magic OCC to cast spells without touching ther own PPE,s reserves.
Type2 (2) Store Spells,I think Spells that the Magic OCC das not known like a 3 level Ley line walker,will have a talisman that store 5 level spell.

I would allow Scrolls to be like a type 2 talisman,but a One-shot deal for each scrolls.

1) it stores PPE so Mages can cast spells w/o using PPE off their base PPE or to cast spells costing more then their base PPE.

2) It stores a spell three times (i.e.: three charges of the same spell.)
1&2) are what are talisman made by the Talisman spell.

3) Spell Scrolls are like single use spell talisman in that they store a spell in their entierty. However, a spell scroll needs to be read out loud to make the magic. This takes time. Where with a talisman it just takes one APM.

Now I can see how a Alchemist could figure out how to use the basic principles of the Create Spell Scroll spell to make a written single use item that has a single trigger word.

[Necrite]

3) Spell Scrolls are like single use spell talisman in that they store a spell in their entierty. However, a spell scroll needs to be read out loud to make the magic. This takes time. Where with a talisman it just takes one APM.

This might not be consistent between all versions of the rules, or maybe I'm recalling something from an old 1st Ed book, but I distinctly recall a passage in the PFRPG book about scrolls always having a title written in plain, non-magical text declaring the contents of the scroll, because reading even the first word of the scroll, even if it isn't spoken out loud, begins to activate the magic, and at that point, the reading of the scroll MUST be completed, or the magic contained in it will be lost.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The text of the Create magic scroll spell was not change to say otherwise in the latest book it was published in. (RBoM)[I have 3rd printing]

[Necrite]

Bah, I have to stop getting into rules discussions when I'm at work. I can't look anything up if I don't have my books at hand.

The line I'm referring to isn't from the Create Scroll spell, but from either the Alchemist or Magic Items section in the PFRPG book. I'll try to remember to look it up when I get home, if nobody else does it first.

Of course, if it's from 1st Ed, I won't be able to look it up. I gave that book to a friend when I got my 2nd Ed book, and he now lives a couple provinces away.

[Necrite]

First off, the Create Magic Scroll spell on page 211 of PFRPG 2nd Ed is basically the same as the Rifts: Book of Magic version.

However, the line I was remembering does still exist in the Alchemist section of the book, on page 247:

The moment the scroll is read, the magic is activated and the spell is cast. The PPE necessary to cast the spell scroll is magically implanted and stored in the written words. Thus, as the scroll is read, the words vanish and the spell is cast. If the reader stops at any point for more than three seconds, the spell is ruined and the writing on the scroll vanishes without casting its magic.
Only the name of the spell will remain after a reading, so it is safe to only read the heading on a scroll; not unraveling it beyond that point to avoid accidentally glancing at the magic words and reading them.

This indicates that so much as seeing and recognizing a single letter or word of the spell on the scroll triggers it. At that point, you MUST cast the spell, or lose it forever.

However, I suspect that at least part of this is a holdover from 1st Edition, because the section on scrolls opens with:

The alchemist is one of the few people in the world who can turn a spell invocation into a magic scroll.

Since any Wizard and some Witches can gain access to the Create Magic Scroll spell, the "few people in the world" claim seems dubious. And since the Create Magic Scroll directly contradicts the description in the Alchemist section ("must be read aloud" vs the ability to trigger a scroll just by glancing at a single word), a GM has to select one to accept as canon, and disregard the other. Since every version of CMS is basically the same (including in newer sources), and the Alchemist only exists in PFRPG, I'm going to have to agree with drewkitty - the scroll must be read aloud.

[Nightmask]

First off, the Create Magic Scroll spell on page 211 of PFRPG 2nd Ed is basically the same as the Rifts: Book of Magic version.

However, the line I was remembering does still exist in the Alchemist section of the book, on page 247:

The moment the scroll is read, the magic is activated and the spell is cast. The PPE necessary to cast the spell scroll is magically implanted and stored in the written words. Thus, as the scroll is read, the words vanish and the spell is cast. If the reader stops at any point for more than three seconds, the spell is ruined and the writing on the scroll vanishes without casting its magic.
Only the name of the spell will remain after a reading, so it is safe to only read the heading on a scroll; not unraveling it beyond that point to avoid accidentally glancing at the magic words and reading them.

This indicates that so much as seeing and recognizing a single letter or word of the spell on the scroll triggers it. At that point, you MUST cast the spell, or lose it forever.

I think that you're using 'read' in the wrong context here, since the mage would end up having to cast the spell when he creates it since he can't logically create the scroll without actually looking at it. You wouldn't develop something like a scroll but set it up so you couldn't even glance at it without setting it off, you'd want it to activate only when you intended to use it.

[Necrite]

I think that you're using 'read' in the wrong context here, since the mage would end up having to cast the spell when he creates it since he can't logically create the scroll without actually looking at it. You wouldn't develop something like a scroll but set it up so you couldn't even glance at it without setting it off, you'd want it to activate only when you intended to use it.

Except that the book outright says that glancing ahead and accidentally reading a word will trigger the spell's magic. I don't know about you, but when I see a word and accidentally read it, I don't say it out loud.

As to setting up the scroll, that's handled in the book too - the title at the top is safe to read. Don't unroll the scroll past the title, and you still know what's on the scroll, but don't accidentally trigger it, because you can't SEE the spell text.

I'm positive this is a carry-over from first edition, where the Create Magic Scroll spell didn't exist. That's why I said I agree with drewkitty, and that this should be ignored and Create Magic Scroll should be considered correct.

[Glistam]

The Nightbane version of Create Magic Scroll lets you make the "scroll" a computer file rather than words on paper. At the time of publication, the implication was that mages could carry around a laptop with scrolls in it. With today's tecchnology, the possibilities are even cooler.

[Necrite]

The Nightbane version of Create Magic Scroll lets you make the "scroll" a computer file rather than words on paper. At the time of publication, the implication was that mages could carry around a laptop with scrolls in it. With today's tecchnology, the possibilities are even cooler.

Oh, that's neat. Of course, it says that the files can't be copied because that would allow an infinite number of free copies, just like how they later state (in both NB and BoM) that conventional scrolls can't be photographed or photocopied. But can the files be transferred from one computer to another?

If so, not only could you have a master repository stored on your computer at home that you could transfer to your tablet or cellphone as you need, you could set up a remote desktop on those devices so that you can directly access the files on your computer.
Even more interesting, a coven of technowizards could create digital scrolls on their home computers, upload them to a website (hopefully one that's got some pretty good security), and then download the ones they need as the need arises. Of course, downloading the file would delete it from the server. But it would give all members of the coven a huge advantage, since each member would benefit from the spell list of the others filling in holes in their own.

My copy of Nightbane has a typo in that spell, that I assume was fixed in other printings: Mine says that some wizards carry around desktop computers with digital scrolls on them.

[eliakon]

The Nightbane version of Create Magic Scroll lets you make the "scroll" a computer file rather than words on paper. At the time of publication, the implication was that mages could carry around a laptop with scrolls in it. With today's tecchnology, the possibilities are even cooler.

Oh, that's neat. Of course, it says that the files can't be copied because that would allow an infinite number of free copies, just like how they later state (in both NB and BoM) that conventional scrolls can't be photographed or photocopied. But can the files be transferred from one computer to another?

If so, not only could you have a master repository stored on your computer at home that you could transfer to your tablet or cellphone as you need, you could set up a remote desktop on those devices so that you can directly access the files on your computer.
Even more interesting, a coven of technowizards could create digital scrolls on their home computers, upload them to a website (hopefully one that's got some pretty good security), and then download the ones they need as the need arises. Of course, downloading the file would delete it from the server. But it would give all members of the coven a huge advantage, since each member would benefit from the spell list of the others filling in holes in their own.

My copy of Nightbane has a typo in that spell, that I assume was fixed in other printings: Mine says that some wizards carry around desktop computers with digital scrolls on them.

Go a step further. Cybernetics, get an implant computer with headjack..... scrolls in your head

[Tor]

The Nightbane version of Create Magic Scroll lets you make the "scroll" a computer file rather than words on paper. At the time of publication, the implication was that mages could carry around a laptop with scrolls in it. With today's tecchnology, the possibilities are even cooler.

Yup, like scroll flashdrives.

Oh, that's neat. Of course, it says that the files can't be copied because that would allow an infinite number of free copies, just like how they later state (in both NB and BoM) that conventional scrolls can't be photographed or photocopied. But can the files be transferred from one computer to another?

Just because the ability to transfer a file allows a little too much freedom (e-mail a scroll to the other side of the planet?) I'd probably rule that no, you can't move the file. Just delete it (equivalent to burning the scroll) or maybe rename the file directory it is under.

Moving files to a different drive actually involves copying the data and rewriting it to the new drive and then deleting the old copy, I'm pretty sure. Scroll infuses a spell to a physical thing (in the case of computerized scrolls, to the memory disc itself).

So if you wrote a scroll to an external hard drive, you could transport it that way, and probably store a heck of a lot of them. The disadvantage to that is presumably you couldn't access them unless you hooked them up to a laptop though.

I think GMs should rule on just how much data a scroll takes though. Considering modern technology, at least a gigabyte per level of experience? I wouldn't have said that when Nightbane came out, but that'd let you store around a thousand level 1 spells on a 1TB external which goes for around fifty bucks today, seems reasonable. Flash drives nowadays can go up to 64 gigs too. Could put 4 level 15 spells on a decent one easy.