I need a definitive answer on Saving Throws please.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

To put it simply, I don't understand how they work.
Some are listed as %'s others are whole numbers (e.g. + 2)

I'm assuming that you need to roll under the %'s and over the whole numbers?

Until recently I nor anyone I ever played with tried using a skill that needed saving from. No trust/charm, no intimidation, no seduction, no death/coma (when you were dead you were dead)

Example: My PC tries to intimidate(70%) info out of a thug. Roll 54. A success on my part. Now I assume the GM would roll to see if the thug could successfully Save Vs. Intimidation? If the thug wins then they are not intimidated. If they lose, then I've succeeded into scaring them into cooperating. Is that correct?

I'm going to head over to Kuseru's page and get the Big list of saving throws he wrote up. I'm sure some things won't be listed though.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, Nate

[Killer Cyborg]

To put it simply, I don't understand how they work.
Some are listed as %'s others are whole numbers (e.g. + 2)

I'm assuming that you need to roll under the %'s and over the whole numbers?

Until recently I nor anyone I ever played with tried using a skill that needed saving from. No trust/charm, no intimidation, no seduction, no death/coma (when you were dead you were dead)

Example: My PC tries to intimidate(70%) info out of a thug. Roll 54. A success on my part. Now I assume the GM would roll to see if the thug could successfully Save Vs. Intimidation? If the thug wins then they are not intimidated. If they lose, then I've succeeded into scaring them into cooperating. Is that correct?

There are two ways to handle Intimidation rolls.
The first, is as you say; you treat it as a skill, and you try to roll under the number.
The second way, based on an interpretation of part of the Warrior's Spirit description in Ninja & Superspies, is for your opponent to try to roll OVER your score, as if it were a save.

There is no further save vs. Intimidation that I'm aware of; it either works, or it doesn't.
And IF it works, there's no official rules for what happens next. We can assume that the target is "intimidated," but there is no official description of what this entails.
So what happens next is pretty much up to the GM.

When I GM, I always just take it into account when role-playing the NPC.
So I think, "Okay, this guy/girl/creature is intimidated. How does it react?", and go from there.
There are plenty of cases where a character might be intimidated, but it doesn't make a lot of difference, either because something else is intimidating him MORE, or because he won't let feelings get in the way of duty, or because he doesn't have what the intimidator wants from him, etc. etc.

[Akashic Soldier]

There are two ways to handle Intimidation rolls.

Three ways.

Clear definitive rules for using Trust and Intimidate can be found in Rifter #60.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

There are two ways to handle Intimidation rolls.

Three ways.

Clear definitive rules for using Trust and Intimidate can be found in Rifter #60.

I don't have Rifter 60. Is it a policy violation to post the info to the thread?

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

To put it simply, I don't understand how they work.
Some are listed as %'s others are whole numbers (e.g. + 2)

I'm assuming that you need to roll under the %'s and over the whole numbers?

There are two ways to handle Intimidation rolls.
The first, is as you say; you treat it as a skill, and you try to roll under the number.
The second way, based on an interpretation of part of the Warrior's Spirit description in Ninja & Superspies, is for your opponent to try to roll OVER your score, as if it were a save.

Thanks for your reply Cyborg. Honestly I'm still not sure of the mechanics of Saving Throws in general. I'm going to lay out a couple of examples and you tell me if I have it correct ok?

Example 1. PC encounters a mutant skunk who let's loose with their stink spray attack.
Rules for the stink spray say defender must roll 15+ to save vs (I'm gonna call it poison gas).
PC has a +3 to save vs. poisons. Roll is made = 12, +3 bonus = 15. Thereby giving the PC a successful save VS poison gas correct?

Example 2. PC is getting the living snot beat out of him by an opponent. PC is reduced to 0 Sdc and 0 HP.
(If I remember correctly). Rules state that PC now falls into a coma for PExHours before dieing unless they receive medical attention.
PC has a +30% save vs Coma/death. So(and I'm guessing here) PC rolls % dice attempting to roll under the +30% to stay alive/conscious?
PC rolls % 16. A success. By sheer force of will/bad@$$ery the PC doesn't succumb to the coma or die, but lives (barely) to recover hp/sdc at the normal rate or seek medical attention. Right??

[JuliusCreed]

To put it simply, I don't understand how they work.
Some are listed as %'s others are whole numbers (e.g. + 2)

I'm assuming that you need to roll under the %'s and over the whole numbers?

There are two ways to handle Intimidation rolls.
The first, is as you say; you treat it as a skill, and you try to roll under the number.
The second way, based on an interpretation of part of the Warrior's Spirit description in Ninja & Superspies, is for your opponent to try to roll OVER your score, as if it were a save.

Thanks for your reply Cyborg. Honestly I'm still not sure of the mechanics of Saving Throws in general. I'm going to lay out a couple of examples and you tell me if I have it correct ok?

Example 1. PC encounters a mutant skunk who let's loose with their stink spray attack.
Rules for the stink spray say defender must roll 15+ to save vs (I'm gonna call it poison gas).
PC has a +3 to save vs. poisons. Roll is made = 12, +3 bonus = 15. Thereby giving the PC a successful save VS poison gas correct?

Example 2. PC is getting the living snot beat out of him by an opponent. PC is reduced to 0 Sdc and 0 HP.
(If I remember correctly). Rules state that PC now falls into a coma for PExHours before dieing unless they receive medical attention.
PC has a +30% save vs Coma/death. So(and I'm guessing here) PC rolls % dice attempting to roll under the +30% to stay alive/conscious?
PC rolls % 16. A success. By sheer force of will/bad@$$ery the PC doesn't succumb to the coma or die, but lives (barely) to recover hp/sdc at the normal rate or seek medical attention. Right??

Correct on the first count, yes... the second is almost right...
To save against a Coma, a PC MUST get some form of medical treatment. The treatment the character receives gives you a base percentage chance to survive. These base percentages can be found in PFRPG pg 20, top left corner. The bonus gained to save against a coma from an exceptional PE is added to this base percentile and then the dice are rolled. The person making the save must roll UNDER the applicable percentile (based according to treatment received) plus any modifiers (from exceptional PE, magically granted or otherwise) 2 out of 3 times in order to succeed and recover. Your PC in the example you gave for instance...
PC receives treatment for a coma from a buddy who has a First Aid skill (base percentage 40%) The PC has a +30% bonus to save against Coma (from a PE of 30) Total save vs Coma percentile: 70%. PC rolls 3 percentiles to save resulting in 16%, 89% and 65%. PC recovers from his Coma with 1 HP and begins the normal recovery process.
All of this and more can be found in PFRPG pgs 19-20, including optional damage rules for people who recover from a coma.

Just to be totally clear here... a saving throw against Coma is NOT a way to keep your character up and moving around after HP and SDC have been reduced to 0 or less... the moment that happens, the character WILL fall down and begin to quietly expire unless someone does something right away to stabilize him and save his life. If a character falls in combat and lies around in a coma, he is going to die if nobody treats his wounds as soon as possible. Luckily, yes, a character can survive in a coma for some time (actually PE in hours rather than PE times 2) so long as no further damage is taken. Any other damage received while the character is down and out should be noted (My players have taken a liking to double tapping lately because of the Coma recovery chances) as the character can only take so much damage before he is really dead with no hope of recovery beyond resurrection. (PE in negative HP to be precise) The point is, a character will NOT survive a coma, no matter how many successful saving throws he makes, without some form of medical treatment from somebody.

Good luck and great gaming!

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Ah. Thanks! Like I said I've never played with them (saving throws) before. When I started playing I was 12 and my brother was 9. Our GM (uncle) did what he could to keep us interested and the game progressing. So he weeded/ruled out a lot of things that would have made for lots of extra accounting/rolling (saving throws, psionics, xp points [if you survived the campaign and weren't a turd you leveled up].

Now that I'm trying to teach the PB system to someone I find myself with tons of questions that I feel I should already know.

I appreciate all your help.

[drewkitty ~..~]

To put it simply, I don't understand how they work.
Some are listed as %'s others are whole numbers (e.g. + 2)

I'm assuming that you need to roll under the %'s and over the whole numbers?

Until recently I nor anyone I ever played with tried using a skill that needed saving from. No trust/charm, no intimidation, no seduction, no death/coma (when you were dead you were dead)

Example: My PC tries to intimidate(70%) info out of a thug. Roll 54. A success on my part. Now I assume the GM would roll to see if the thug could successfully Save Vs. Intimidation? If the thug wins then they are not intimidated. If they lose, then I've succeeded into scaring them into cooperating. Is that correct?

I'm going to head over to Kuseru's page and get the Big list of saving throws he wrote up. I'm sure some things won't be listed though.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks, Nate

First things first, There are no Canon Rules about how to handle the MA and PB stats.

The way I've always understood them is that the the other chars have to roll over your char's % (both MA and PB) to not be affected by your chars demeanor or appearance.

Yes, there are some guidelines about the levels of trust in R60....
but they do not get into how the MA % works at a "Roll Play" level.

[Akashic Soldier]

The way I've always understood them is that the the other chars have to roll over your char's % (both MA and PB) to not be affected by your chars demeanor or appearance.

Yes, there are some guidelines about the levels of trust in R60....
but they do not get into how the MA % works at a "Roll Play" level.

I disagree. That is why I specifically included a Trust and Intimidation table to gauge the response you can garner from your "target(s)"

Whereas you could choose to reduce the mechanics to "roll and whoever does whatever you say because you made the roll" the rules as I wrote them were written to make things a little more believable than that and to ensure that the rules cannot be exploited.

Now that I've addressed that.

Sorry Nate. I cannot share them with you but Rifter #60 is still available for purchase on palladiumbooks.com HERE

I tried to keep the rules as simple and intuitive as possible. Please don't let DrewKitty's personal dislike of me dissuade you. If either Kevin or Wayne felt that the rules were BAD or CRAPPY than they never would have printed them.

My point though in posting here wasn't just shameless self promotion, I was trying to help Nate out.

To summarize things, within the rules (as they appear in Rifter #60) there is no saving throw vs. Intimidation but if the intimidation attempt is interrupted than the target is not intimidated. I cannot say more than that but I hope (if you do get R#60) that you find them a useful addition to your game.

[drewkitty ~..~]

AS.... There is a difference between Roleplaying and Roll playing.

There was a reason I underlined "Roll Play" in my post.


There is not "Who Rolls?" "Over or under?" "What happens if they fail?", and all that jazz.


While it is a great resource for Roleplaying ...it is not quite so good for roll playing.

[nilgravity]

I've extracted a rule from the rope handling skill. If you need to mix a d20 roll and % there is a conversion of every 20% = +1. Just apply it as it makes sense. So if someone is poisoned and someone in the group is a medic or has some other skill in relation to poisons (wilderness survival for instance) you can either apply the bonus to the save (86% skill = +4 to save bonus) or have the person roll the skill and make the difference the bonus (86% skill - 55% = 31% which would be a bonus of +1)

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Does anyone know where to find a complete list of Saving throws? Also, it'd be nice to know which attributes add what modifiers to what saving throw. The Attribute Bonus chart in TMNT&OS isn't very detailed.

Really appreciate it.

Merry Christmas (or whatever your holiday of choice),

[Prysus]

Does anyone know where to find a complete list of Saving throws? Also, it'd be nice to know which attributes add what modifiers to what saving throw. The Attribute Bonus chart in TMNT&OS isn't very detailed.

Really appreciate it.

Merry Christmas (or whatever your holiday of choice),

Greetings and Salutations. The best I can give you is ...

http://www.geocities.ws/kuseru/savingthrow.htm

Hopefully that takes you to the page, and doesn't hi-jack you to the Web Ring (I was having that problem while trying to get to the link). Anyways, I think that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[twingle93]

Personally I got rid of the trust/intimidate percentile rolls a long time ago in my games and replaced it with a system where a high M.A gives you bonuses when dealing with NPCs in specific situations, complete with modifiers (bonuses and penalties) depending on the circumstances (in combat, haggling with NPC merchants, NPCs are authorities). Really, when you're character has a trust/intimidate attribute of 98% he is intimidating every NPC he meets regardless of the circumstances, and they don't even get to save. It never made sense to me. With my system, there is a scale. Get a high roll using bonuses from your M.A, say a natural 20, and you've made such an impression on the NPC that they worship your character. Roll a 0 and the NPCs hate you and immediately attack the PC.

[Spinachcat]

Our GM (uncle) did what he could to keep us interested and the game progressing. So he weeded/ruled out a lot of things that would have made for lots of extra accounting/rolling

That's a good GM.

We need more GMs like that.