Too powerful?

[earthhawk]

I'm running a campaign where I plan to have my players discover a Dominator ship that crashed-landed on earth 20,000 years ago. Since the ship is covered with 20k years of dirt, it looks like an ordinary mountain. The players will discover a metal door with alien writing on it that opens on its own once it detects human DNA. They'll travel through the mountain-ship discovering wonderous technology, fighting the automated, and maybe even biological protectors of the ship, and eventually finding the Dominator in statis.

So may question is this: is a Dominator on Rifts earth too powerful?

[Jay05]

I'd say no considering, Splugorth, Nxla, the Lord of the deep, It'd just be another powerful entity. And as for the treasure chest you're giving your players and their pcs? Lucky them! LOL

[drewkitty ~..~]

So long as it stays in stasis it is not.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The dominators themselves are not too powerful. Individually, they are roughly equal to minor gods stat-wise. there are already minor gods inhabiting rifts.

Their technology is the kicker. If the dominator wakes up and gets the ships production facilities on-line, it could conquer the world.

[taalismn]

Your PCs should have a run for their money if the Dominator comes fully awake and gets to his gear; he knows his home turf; the PCs don't(cue 'Rat Warren Massacre'), but they should be able to take him down after a hellacious fight.
Now, when he DOES go down, as long as he doesn't hit that big red button....

[Zamion138]

As long as he doesnt get his ranged weapons. 1d4x100 mdc......that would waste just about any pc other than dragons and heavy cyborgs

[Nekira Sudacne]

As long as he doesnt get his ranged weapons. 1d4x100 mdc......that would waste just about any pc other than dragons and heavy cyborgs

Just remember, that gun was only their sidearm pistol

Imagine what their assult rifles look like.

[taalismn]

Hit it? He's going to fall on hit forehead first of course!

"Okay, he hit the red button! Whattya think's the count on the self-destruct?"
"If I was a real evil sod, I'd set it to go just before we make it to safety."

[Zamion138]

As long as he doesnt get his ranged weapons. 1d4x100 mdc......that would waste just about any pc other than dragons and heavy cyborgs

Just remember, that gun was only their sidearm pistol

Imagine what their assult rifles look like.

Exactly, if this guy wakes up and the party kills him before he can dosomething then they are evil bastards cuase they as rifts earth chars have such a low % chance of knowing what a domminator is its sad.

If they awaken him let him get dressed and talk for a bit, he might be thankfull and feed them and give them some stashed alien booty as payment and leave. Dominators are not stupid by any stretch of the word and are not slobbering killing machines that attack mortals on site.
Id penalize them for killing the domminator on site and they will be toasted if he gets armed and armored.....damned if they do damned if they dont.

If splyncryth gets word that there is a domminator on planet he will not hesitate to bring in an armada and pound it from orbit and none of the global powers and megaversal powers would be agaisnt this move, if anything they would help to perseve the crossroads that is earth.

[Jedrious]

Hit it? He's going to fall on hit forehead first of course!

"Okay, he hit the red button! Whattya think's the count on the self-destruct?"
"If I was a real evil sod, I'd set it to go just before we make it to safety."

I'd also have it say the wrong numbers for the countdown

[Zamion138]

If i was a domminator id tie it to my body, i die it goes super nova..... no count down just some ainchant dominator swear word.......and boom!

[Jedrious]

If i was a domminator id tie it to my body, i die it goes super nova..... no count down just some ainchant dominator swear word.......and boom!

or tied to brainwave activity, or lack thereof

[Zamion138]

If i was a domminator id tie it to my body, i die it goes super nova..... no count down just some ainchant dominator swear word.......and boom!

or tied to brainwave activity, or lack thereof

Yeah something like that, cept in this case hes in suspended animation....so do domminators dream becomes the question

[earthhawk]

I actually picked up the Phaseworld books just for the Dominators. I thought they were an excellent antagonist for the PCs, especially if he's still feeling the effects of 20,000 years of suspended animation. Now the next question is what should they encounter inside the Dominator's ship? Robots? Biomechanical slaves that are connected to a hive mind, which could be the computer brain of the ship? Hmm... this is getting very interesting!

[Grell]

I actually picked up the Phaseworld books just for the Dominators. I thought they were an excellent antagonist for the PCs, especially if he's still feeling the effects of 20,000 years of suspended animation. Now the next question is what should they encounter inside the Dominator's ship? Robots? Biomechanical slaves that are connected to a hive mind, which could be the computer brain of the ship? Hmm... this is getting very interesting!

All of the above, naturally!

[Subjugator]

I'd say the real problem with a Dominator is that they're a race. There isn't just one of them, and they breed.

/Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'd say the real problem with a Dominator is that they're a race. There isn't just one of them, and they breed.

/Sub

And yet Only one Dominator inhabits each ship. Apparently, they had some hardcore anti-fraternization laws.

[Jedrious]

I'd say the real problem with a Dominator is that they're a race. There isn't just one of them, and they breed.

/Sub

And yet Only one Dominator inhabits each ship. Apparently, they had some hardcore anti-fraternization laws.

That's because each Dominator "Ship" is in reality a lightly armed and modestly equipped escape pod.

[taalismn]

Worry then about Dominators considering CLONING. And hope they have ethical restrictions against such.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Worry then about Dominators considering CLONING. And hope they have ethical restrictions against such.

They havn't been in the past 200,000 or so years their people have been on the brink of extinction, I'd say either they will not or something about their biology can not be cloned.

[eliakon]

I would be more worried about the thousand mile explosion that does millions of MD when they die, and the ship that is linked to them blows up. That sounds like it could be....inconvinent. Although a helpful (and precognicant) god or ai might arange for a rift to vent the blast, or d-shift the ship just before it goes up, thereby removing the earthshattering ka-boom.

[taalismn]

I would be more worried about the thousand mile explosion that does millions of MD when they die, and the ship that is linked to them blows up. That sounds like it could be....inconvinent. Although a helpful (and precognicant) god or ai might arange for a rift to vent the blast, or d-shift the ship just before it goes up, thereby removing the earthshattering ka-boom.

Or hope the gas has gone stale after all that time...

Or maybe some other bugger snuck aboard and chewed through the detonation mechanism connections.

Dominator: "Oh RATS!"

[Subjugator]

Hm. Gene Splicer gets his hands on a hibernating Dominator...chaos ensues.

/Sub

[Johnathan]

Hm. Gene Splicer gets his hands on a hibernating Dominator...chaos ensues.

/Sub

"Aaaaaand let me roll this real quick.... and you all die"
"Wait What!?"
"Yup, everyone gone, world explodes *phbbbt*"
"Well what did you roll?"
"A natural one"
"And that killed us?"
"Well let me put it this way: the only chance that you had to survive was if I rolled the dice and it shattered, peppering me with plastic shards and sending me to the hospital."

+1!

[Tor]

If the dominator wakes up and gets the ships production facilities on-line, it could conquer the world.

Production facilities? Did they get drone armies or something now?

No worries, Splynncryth and his Egyptian God friends will handle it for us.

[Nekira Sudacne]

If the dominator wakes up and gets the ships production facilities on-line, it could conquer the world.

Production facilities? Did they get drone armies or something now?

No worries, Splynncryth and his Egyptian God friends will handle it for us.

You don't have a ship the size of a planet that's maintained in good order for hundreds of thousands of years without some fabrication ability. and they have always used drones.

[SAMASzero]

If i was a domminator id tie it to my body, i die it goes super nova..... no count down just some ainchant dominator swear word.......and boom!

That's exactly what they do. There's a sentient nebula about an AU across that's used as the ship's power source. If the Dominator dies, the nebula, having spent an eon as an unwilling powerplant, commits suicide and blows the entire ship to pieces.

As you might guess, this is not something you want to happen on the surface of a planet (if you want to have a planet afterwards). That's the one reason I say this idea is a bad one.

[nilgravity]

I don't understand the fear of characters getting to powerful. The point of the game is to have fun, if the players are having fun being bad ass then you're doing your job. I have never had a problem with players not being challenged because I'm good at finding the natural consequences of the characters actions ("Oh you wiped out the Coalition? How do you feel about the demon gate being your responsibility?"). But if that doesn't sound fun for you, try letting them get crazy powerful, then roll up new characters that are at the mercy of the Dominator.

[nilgravity]

I enjoy watching my players squirm from time to time

Then paranoia is your friend.

[Jedrious]

I would say that a full on dominator ship (which tend to be 30 mile wide spheres) would be too powerful if things go awry. I would make it some sort of dominator escape pod. It could easily still be huge (a mile or so sized ship), but without the infinite power source, potentially planet killing self-destruct system, and the setting changing production facilities. You could still sprinkle a bunch of dominator based goodies across the ship, but if the players let the dominator go or failed to kill him then it would be a struggle for the dominator to become a setting destroying power.

I think you missed my point that the 30 mile spheres ARE escape pods...

[Nekira Sudacne]

I would say that a full on dominator ship (which tend to be 30 mile wide spheres) would be too powerful if things go awry. I would make it some sort of dominator escape pod. It could easily still be huge (a mile or so sized ship), but without the infinite power source, potentially planet killing self-destruct system, and the setting changing production facilities. You could still sprinkle a bunch of dominator based goodies across the ship, but if the players let the dominator go or failed to kill him then it would be a struggle for the dominator to become a setting destroying power.

I think you missed my point that the 30 mile spheres ARE escape pods...

I still perfered the old version where their ships are somewhere between the size of the moon to the size of Jupiter

[The Galactus Kid]

This is a great idea and I might use something similar in an upcoming RIFTS game.

[nilgravity]

http://rifts.freehostia.com/rifts_middle_east.htmAccording to this fanfic page there's a dominator in the Middle East

[Subjugator]

This is a great idea and I might use something similar in an upcoming RIFTS game.

I'm really frickin' glad I'm not in your game.

GK: Hey...Dennis...
Subbie: Yeah?
GK: Can I have your sheet for a sec?
Subbie: Sure...*hands over sheet*
GK: *Drops it in the shredder*
Subbie: HEY! Dude...I was in a fully functional Glitter Boy! I had AofI on! I had dodges left!
GK: Dude, you woke the Dominator.
Subbie: Oh! Oh. *rolls up a new character*

/Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is a great idea and I might use something similar in an upcoming RIFTS game.

I'm really frickin' glad I'm not in your game.

GK: Hey...Dennis...
Subbie: Yeah?
GK: Can I have your sheet for a sec?
Subbie: Sure...*hands over sheet*
GK: *Drops it in the shredder*
Subbie: HEY! Dude...I was in a fully functional Glitter Boy! I had AofI on! I had dodges left!
GK: Dude, you woke the Dominator.
Subbie: Oh! Oh. *rolls up a new character*

/Sub

Oh they arn't that bad. the dominator's weapon is only 1d4*100. even if it got a nat 20 and max damage, it wouldn't destroy it through the ARmor of Ithan, though it would be nearly so.

[Zamion138]

This is a great idea and I might use something similar in an upcoming RIFTS game.

I'm really frickin' glad I'm not in your game.

GK: Hey...Dennis...
Subbie: Yeah?
GK: Can I have your sheet for a sec?
Subbie: Sure...*hands over sheet*
GK: *Drops it in the shredder*
Subbie: HEY! Dude...I was in a fully functional Glitter Boy! I had AofI on! I had dodges left!
GK: Dude, you woke the Dominator.
Subbie: Oh! Oh. *rolls up a new character*

/Sub

Oh they arn't that bad. the dominator's weapon is only 1d4*100. even if it got a nat 20 and max damage, it wouldn't destroy it through the ARmor of Ithan, though it would be nearly so.

Yeah thats one of 7 attacks of the dominator, and assuming he aims for the main body and not just the glitter boy gun to deal with the rest of it latter. The domintors usaly fight a couple cosmo knights.....a couple! A full powered dominator with its weapons is to burly for rifts earth.

[Nekira Sudacne]

This is a great idea and I might use something similar in an upcoming RIFTS game.

I'm really frickin' glad I'm not in your game.

GK: Hey...Dennis...
Subbie: Yeah?
GK: Can I have your sheet for a sec?
Subbie: Sure...*hands over sheet*
GK: *Drops it in the shredder*
Subbie: HEY! Dude...I was in a fully functional Glitter Boy! I had AofI on! I had dodges left!
GK: Dude, you woke the Dominator.
Subbie: Oh! Oh. *rolls up a new character*

/Sub

Oh they arn't that bad. the dominator's weapon is only 1d4*100. even if it got a nat 20 and max damage, it wouldn't destroy it through the ARmor of Ithan, though it would be nearly so.

Yeah thats one of 7 attacks of the dominator, and assuming he aims for the main body and not just the glitter boy gun to deal with the rest of it latter. The domintors usaly fight a couple cosmo knights.....a couple! A full powered dominator with its weapons is to burly for rifts earth.

Oh sure. One lone GB is unlikely to survive. My only point is it's not as simple as "your dead"

[Akashic Soldier]

My only point is it's not as simple as "your dead"

[Nekira Sudacne]

My only point is it's not as simple as "your dead"

In one group I played in (though a bit before I joined it), the party actually managed to kill a dominator outright through personal sacrafise--after successfully getting close to it through the ships defences, the PC who had APS: Fire sacrafised herself with the Nova power.

Dominators are tough, but one million megadamage still offed it good. and it could no longer threaten earth--a fine heroic sacrafise.

[Akashic Soldier]

In one group I played in (though a bit before I joined it), the party actually managed to kill a dominator outright through personal sacrafise--after successfully getting close to it through the ships defences, the PC who had APS: Fire sacrafised herself with the Nova power.

Dominators are tough, but one million megadamage still offed it good. and it could no longer threaten earth--a fine heroic sacrafise.

Sounds epic! Again, this is something else I love about Rifts. Zeus has stats, you can defeat the Deathstar, and EVERYONE can have a bad day. Its why most "hypothetical" combats are a serious waste of time unless they're played out. I mean most of the time a Dominator is going to school a Glitterboy pilot, but certainly not EVERY time. Especially since Glitterboys are typically descendent from a line line of "heroes" and "heroes" have a startling propensity for overcoming impossible odds and defeating Megaversal evils. Be they a farmboy, a samurai, a Glitterboy or a housewife, The Dominator COULD be defeated by any one of them under the right circumstances.

[Tor]

they have always used drones.

I don't recall it being in PW so am assuming it's in that new book that has the stats for their ship.

There's a sentient nebula about an AU across that's used as the ship's power source. If the Dominator dies, the nebula, having spent an eon as an unwilling powerplant, commits suicide

That's the most horrific thing I have ever encountered in Palladium Books, and I've read Soul Harvest and Nightbane. Is there some way to communicate these things, talk them out of it?

Subbie: HEY! Dude...I was in a fully functional Glitter Boy! I had AofI on!

the dominator's weapon is only 1d4*100. even if it got a nat 20 and max damage, it wouldn't destroy it through the ARmor of Ithan, though it would be nearly so.

We're assuming a maxed out AoI then I guess?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Subbie: HEY! Dude...I was in a fully functional Glitter Boy! I had AofI on!

the dominator's weapon is only 1d4*100. even if it got a nat 20 and max damage, it wouldn't destroy it through the ARmor of Ithan, though it would be nearly so.

We're assuming a maxed out AoI then I guess?

Not really. A glitter boy has 760 MDC, the max damage on a crit for that weapon is 800 MD. A fifth level armor of ithan would juuust let it squeek by with 10 MDC left on the main body, which if i'm remembering the gear in merc ops correctly, fifth level AoI is pretty standard for vehicles with AoI installed. less than that it would hardly be worth the cost of putting it in.

[SAMASzero]

There's a sentient nebula about an AU across that's used as the ship's power source. If the Dominator dies, the nebula, having spent an eon as an unwilling powerplant, commits suicide

That's the most horrific thing I have ever encountered in Palladium Books, and I've read Soul Harvest and Nightbane. Is there some way to communicate these things, talk them out of it?

The book doesn't have anything on that, but as a GM, I'd let the characters at least try, provided they talk to it before offing the Big Bad.

[taalismn]

And it should be like trying to cheer up Marvin the Paranoid Android, only the thing REALLY wants to die...

But playing up the whole 'alternate universes' thing might be a possible approach...like"Well, there might not BE any more Dominators in this universe, or ones just next door'...and 'there might be others of your kind out there who deserve to be contacted/freed...maybe a whole UNIVERSE of free ones! You don't have to be alone, or suffer!"

[Subjugator]

Oh they arn't that bad. the dominator's weapon is only 1d4*100. even if it got a nat 20 and max damage, it wouldn't destroy it through the ARmor of Ithan, though it would be nearly so.

That's the official and average. I imagine there is variation.

/Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

Oh they arn't that bad. the dominator's weapon is only 1d4*100. even if it got a nat 20 and max damage, it wouldn't destroy it through the ARmor of Ithan, though it would be nearly so.

That's the official and average. I imagine there is variation.

/Sub

Sure, I'm the one who first mentioned the dominators would definatly have bigger and better weapons--that's not the point. the point is they're not unbeatable by any streach, even if you gave it time to get out of it's stasis pod and strap on the dominator versions of full battle garb and high end assult rifle. Nothing is unbeatable, even if one lone GB has almost no chance, if he's smart, and makes sure he has more than just a glitter boy to work with, there may still be a way to find victory.

[Johnathan]

My only point is it's not as simple as "your dead"

In one group I played in (though a bit before I joined it), the party actually managed to kill a dominator outright through personal sacrafise--after successfully getting close to it through the ships defences, the PC who had APS: Fire sacrafised herself with the Nova power.

Dominators are tough, but one million megadamage still offed it good. and it could no longer threaten earth--a fine heroic sacrafise.

I remember that adventure... Jhon was a 2nd level Cosmo-Knight... They ended up selling off all of the Dominators equipment and ship. The money the group got from that adventure has funded it almost entirely since then... Wow. Memories...

[Nekira Sudacne]

It's important to remember defeating dosn't always mean killing. Galactus was origionally a fantastic four villian, and the fantastic four are hardly the most high powered superhero team. They never had a chance of beating him head on, and they didn't.

Earth is still around though.

Being a hero sometimes requires you to fight something you have no clear way of defeating, or even have virtually no chance of defeating. As long as you accept death as a possible result of your struggle and keep an open mind, you may find a way, if not to kill them, then to foil the current threat.

[earthhawk]

I appreciate the ideas everyone has posted. Only in Rifts is such an adventure possible!