500,000 credit challange

[Killer Cyborg]

I think that the Level of the party in question would matter quite a deal.

[kaid]

The astral domain is a good idea. Short of that, I've got some questions myself.

1. What classes are the characters?

I was thinking say a NA apropriate mage, a Master Psychic, a pair of Adventurer classes and a couple of Man at Arms classes.

2. How permanent must this be?

This is a permanent settlement so the defenses must last for a while.

3. How much time do we have to create this?

Say six months to a year.

4. Are we close to a ley line nexus?

You are a day or so travel from a Ley line.

And as I said earlier you are outside of CS territory.

Quoted out as emphasis -

this is the OP saying flat out that you've got the services of the kindly adventurers ("the party") who are doing this and about six month to a year to work with access to a ley line about a day away.

So your party that is doing the work/organizing this towns defenses can/does include:
A N/A appropriate magician
A Master Psychic (also N/A)
Two Scholar/Adventurers (So, an Operator and ? I'd say WIlderness Scout)
4-ish Men-at-arms types (who can have skills like field fortification/etc and can help direct the construction of additional fortifications as well as provide labor and perhaps even Power Amor/a Robot Vehicle for labor).

Thats all above and beyond the 500k.

So, like i was saying, im leaning towards Warlock (Earth). While a TW could make some modern-energy-weapon-equivalent TW weapons at material cost (I.E. cheap) providing our town with a lot of decent firepower... you'd still have to break the bank supplying body armor, and about all the TW is good for is supplying weapons (unless we're super lucky and the dude also knows Ironwood).

A Warlock is not only a lot more likely to have Ironwood (as they get access to all spells of the level they can cast, if memory serves), he can also turn earth/rock into MDC structures via magic and with the help of elementals, and elementals can help create all sorts of stuff.

As for spending money on EBA - gas mask/filtes are dirt cheap, and having 10-20 Multi-Optic helmets for the guys "on duty" on a given day is also way cheaper than even half a dozen suits of EBA.... and given a *year*, with a ley-line a day away, the entire adult population could be outfitted with "cheap" Ironwood armor that is in the 30-50 MDC range... for free. you could also arm the entire adult population with 7.62mm Assault Rifles for less than 120,000, and buy tens of thousands of rounds of ramjet ammo... and STILL have ~230k left over for things like mines, a radar system (Merc Ops has an absurdly cheap, absurdly good portable system from Wilks that you could buy 2-3 of for lots of coverage), MDC barbed wire, and maybe a dozen heavy-machine guns (.50cal) to emplace on the walls with Heavy Ramjets (that do pretty respectable MD on a burst).

Then on top of that your entire "milita"/police force for the town (about 30-40 guys) can also be armed with pump Shotguns firing APRJ rounds (a paltry 20cr each) that actually do really decent MD out to 500ft, and buy a few dozen loads of plasma explosive shells for the real nasties - get a couple of breach-load double-barrels to use as cheap "grenade" launcers (double-blasts of plasma do decent damage to a decent radius).

One thing to note is elementals can also cast most of the warlock spells as well so if you have a warlock around if he has an elemental the combination can pump out a TON of warlock goodness over a very short period of time. And elementals can share PPE with warlocks to power warlock spells the elemental does not have access to.

[kaid]

I think that the Level of the party in question would matter quite a deal.

Yes that would be important. If they are low level say 1-5 or so I would highly recommend native american elemental shaman instead of a warlock. Their chances at low levels of summoning their elemental spirits is MUCH higher than a normal warlock. They can also make fetishes but given how those rules work they would probably not give those to non native americans but even at low levels if you can get an elemental or elemental spirit helping gross fortifications can be made quickly and easily.

I am pretty sure even the lesser wood elemental spirits get access to ironwood as one of their base spells and given their high PPE they would be able to enchant quite a bit of it. If the shaman is from a tribe that is not friendly with the simvan being able to fortify a town to be a thorn in the side of the simvan that is not easily traced back to them could be a win win roleplaying wise.

[Zamion138]

The thing with the party helping it sorta goes against the OP, i think possible erroneously he more ment what items youd buy, having an elemental and a stone mage kinda seems like wishfull thinking.
Almsot like saying well wed dig up the 5 stashed glitterboys just out of town that were hidden there before the comming of the rifts.

That is one of the reasons I was saying 250k to hire a warlock. I am pretty sure you could find a pretty competent warlock who would be willing for a quarter of a million credits to spend a day or two forting up a town especially when it is a totally non combat request. Given where they are locating it may actually be easier to find a native american elemental shaman but they are functionally similar to the warlock except that they have an easier time summoning their spirits but have to be a bit more respectful of the spirits wants/likes. As long as the town maintains good relations with the native americans in the area I don't think there would be to much problems acquiring ones assistance with a quarter million credits or supplies equal to that amount. That much trade in supplies could keep a whole tribe set pretty well for the winter. Pretty even trade community security for community security.

I agree thats a fair wage.
One thing id like to add to my set up is just some mundane dogs for the patrol and in the city. They can smell and hear trouble and some psi problems. They are cheap and effective as well.

[kaid]

The thing with the party helping it sorta goes against the OP, i think possible erroneously he more ment what items youd buy, having an elemental and a stone mage kinda seems like wishfull thinking.
Almsot like saying well wed dig up the 5 stashed glitterboys just out of town that were hidden there before the comming of the rifts.

That is one of the reasons I was saying 250k to hire a warlock. I am pretty sure you could find a pretty competent warlock who would be willing for a quarter of a million credits to spend a day or two forting up a town especially when it is a totally non combat request. Given where they are locating it may actually be easier to find a native american elemental shaman but they are functionally similar to the warlock except that they have an easier time summoning their spirits but have to be a bit more respectful of the spirits wants/likes. As long as the town maintains good relations with the native americans in the area I don't think there would be to much problems acquiring ones assistance with a quarter million credits or supplies equal to that amount. That much trade in supplies could keep a whole tribe set pretty well for the winter. Pretty even trade community security for community security.

I agree thats a fair wage.
One thing id like to add to my set up is just some mundane dogs for the patrol and in the city. They can smell and hear trouble and some psi problems. They are cheap and effective as well.

I would assume dogs guard and otherwise for any frontier town. Even when not dealing with crazy rift beasts dogs are very important to any frontier town for guarding/herding/vermine control. I would assume they come with the villagers and not something you would have to supply for them to help the town.

[Killer Cyborg]

The average cost for a Warlock to cast a spell is CR 1,000 per level of the spell per casting, with additional charges of up to 50% for "difficulty."

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I think that the Level of the party in question would matter quite a deal.

I dont disagree.

What we need is the OP to take stock of what has already been posted and perhaps do an updated post with all the info he can think of given the questions and situations posted to this point.

[kaid]

The average cost for a Warlock to cast a spell is CR 1,000 per level of the spell per casting, with additional charges of up to 50% for "difficulty."

Ah so my ball park 250k for a couple days work seems pretty well on the money. Once the elemental is summoned it can do most of the "heavy lifting" with the warlock assisting as needed. Thankfully most of the warlock "construction" spells are pretty wide area of effect so say 100k to summon the elemental and have it do its thing and another 150k for the more fine tuned changes better handled by the warlock himself.

A quarter million credits is a pretty healthy chunk of change for a couple days "work" that involves no combat or danger. Honestly I would think in areas where magic is not totally frowned upon bob the warlock fortification salesman would be a pretty damn lucrative use of their skillset. Hell if they are a earth/water warlock so much the better. Days work you have your towns walls/towers/defenses/well/irrigation system all setup ready to go. The other nice thing is they could also if you had extra time/money derock your future farm fields saving everybody a LOT of blood sweat and tears it takes to turn unimproved ground into good fields.

[Killer Cyborg]

The average cost for a Warlock to cast a spell is CR 1,000 per level of the spell per casting, with additional charges of up to 50% for "difficulty."

Ah so my ball park 250k for a couple days work seems pretty well on the money. Once the elemental is summoned it can do most of the "heavy lifting" with the warlock assisting as needed. Thankfully most of the warlock "construction" spells are pretty wide area of effect so say 100k to summon the elemental and have it do its thing and another 150k for the more fine tuned changes better handled by the warlock himself.

Elementals don't quite think the same way that we do, so I wouldn't recommend having one work on his own. The Warlock would need to supervise it.

[Killer Cyborg]

Until we get more feedback on the party of adventurers that we can have help out, I'm going to just ignore that for now.

I'd have two basic militia types, each with different equipment and specialties. The members of the militia would have to provide a lot of their own supplies (food, etc.), but would get most of what they need from the community chest.

Scout:
The job of the scout is to patrol the area for signs of trouble, as well as to check, set, and reset perimeter traps. If strangers or interlopers appear within the community's territory, the scouts are the ones to first spot the intruders, and it is the job of the scouts to assess the threat level, to report the threat to the community at large, and to eliminate the threat if necessary.
Scouts will typically have skills appropriate to stealth, hunting, and guerilla warfare (prowl, trap construction, sniper, etc.). Many of them will be hunters as well, and may include hunting game for the community as part of their scouting duties.
Scouts will travel and operate in teams of three, usually with one of the scouts being a seasoned veteran, another having an intermediate level of experience, and the other being a new recruit.
If a group of scouts encounters hostile action, they will fire off a flare arrow to alert the other scouts and/or the community. If a threat is serious, and it is deemed necessary, one of the scouts will head back to the community (or the nearest checkpoint) to give a verbal report while the other two scouts perform holding actions.
They can use sniper attacks in order to disable or kill enemies, or simply to harry and harrass them, softening them up and delaying their approach to the city itself. Incapacitating vehicles and mounts, and hitting other soft spots or vulnerable targets is their priority. They're not equipped for a sustained firefight against mega-damage enemies, so they use hit-and-run tactics as a rule, striking from hiding places behind cover, then retreating or relocating when they are detected.
In the case of overwhelming firepower, such as well-equipped mega-damage enemies, the scouts will all retreat if they are detected.
In times of crisis, the scouts can all withdraw to defend the city walls

Primary Weapon:
Long Bow
Base Damage: 2d6 SDC (normal arrows)
Range: 640'
Cost: CR Negligible (made by the community).
Ammunition:
5 wooden arrows with fire-hardened tips. Cost: Negligible.
5 standard hunting arrows with wooden shafts, but iron hunting heads (which can be removed in case of vampires or similar threats). Cost: CR 4 each, for a total of 20 Credits per scout.
10 arrows tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20 each, for a total of CR 200 per scout.
1 Tear Gas arrowhead. Cost CR 100
2 Smoke arrowhead. Cost CR 80 each, for a total of CR 160 per scout.
2 Flare arrowheads. Cost CR 10 each, for a total of CR 20 per scout.
Weapon/Ammo Cost: CR 500

Melee Weapons:
Survival Knife:
D: 1d8 SDC
Weapon/Ammo Cost: CR 200

Armor:
Light Tactical Armor (MO, 109)
Bought Used (RGMG, 202).
MDC: 4
Cost: 3,500

General Equipment:
Ghillie Suit (+5% Prowl, +10% Blend) CR 500
Backpack. CR 40
Waterskin (1 gallon). CR 30
Wooden Cross. CR 2
SPU-5 Sonic Flea Collar. CR 100.
Used Gas Mask. CR 25
Duct Tape. CR 3
First Aid Kit. CR 100.
Small Flashlight. CR 6
Binoculars. CR 400.
Pocket Night Viewer. CR 800.
Total Equipment Cost: CR 2,006

Total Cost Per Scout: CR 6,226

The community could have 36 scouts (13 teams) under the current (ignoring adventurers) scenario.


Soldier:
The job of the soldier is to launch offensive maneuvers against incoming threats, preferably before they get too close to the city walls. They typically operate in 5-person teams, with at least one veteran per team. They also utilize women and children as young as 10 years of age, no more than one per team. When children are used, they are typically given lower-risk assignments, or are given roles and tasks in which their smaller size is either a benefit, or at least not a detriment.
While the job of the scout is to identify trouble, to discourage the enemy and soften them up, the job of the soldier is to present an intimidating and credible threat to the enemy, and to destroy even large and capable enemies if necessary.

Primary Weapon:
Klashnikov Style 12 Gauge
Damage: 2d6 MD per shot (APRJ rounds), or 4d6 MD per 3-round burst.
Payload: 50 round drum
Range: 300'
Cost: CR 1,000

Ammunition:
1 drum of APRJ rounds. 2d6 MD per shot, or 4d6 MD per 3-shot burst. Cost: 20 credits each, for a total of CR 1,000

Secondary Weapon:
GAW-AT6 LAW Missile Launcher (MO 124)
Range: 3,200'
Cost: CR 200

Ammunition:
1 Fragmentation Mini-Missile (5d6 MD to a 20' radius). CR 800.

Melee Weapons:
Survival Knife:
D: 1d8 SDC
Weapon/Ammo Cost: CR 200

Armor:
Light Homemade MDC Armor
Bought Used (RGMG, 202).
MDC: 21
Cost: CR 5,600

Armored Overcoat (New West, 178)
Bought Used (RGMG, 202).
MDC: 20
Cost: CR 8,400

General Equipment:
Web Vest. CR 15.
Backpack. CR 40
Waterskin (1 gallon). CR 30
Wooden Cross. CR 2
Used Gas Mask. CR 25
Duct Tape. CR 3
First Aid Kit. CR 100.
Small Flashlight. CR 6
Total Equipment Cost: CR 221

Total Cost Per Soldier: CR 17,421

The community could afford 15 soldiers (three teams of 5).

Any leftover money would be used to purchase more Naruni Plasma rounds, in order to use for Plasma Arrows and Naruni Bullet Mines.
The Bullet Mines and other booby traps would surround the community, for additional protection.
There would also be a moat surrounding the walls, with pumps that could be turned on in order to circulate the water, making it "flowing" in case of vampire attack.

The reason why the Soldiers rely on more expensive weapons than plasma arrows is simply that some creatures are impervious to plasma/heat attacks, so more conventional damage is required.
Likewise, various mages and creatures can be Impervious to Energy, so I picked a relatively cheap projectile weapon, even though I had to compromise on the range for the assault shotguns.
The missile launchers are there to make up for the shorter range of the shotguns, so that the soldiers cannot be entirely out-ranged easily.

[Shark_Force]

ok, lot of talk about earth warlocks here...

now, don't get me wrong. i love earth warlocks. they're awesome. but let's do so some fact checking.

ironwood: is a level 8 spell. single-element warlocks get 3 spells per level (dual-elements get 2, one per element), and cannot choose spells that are higher level than them. bare minimum, you're looking at a level 8 character the second the words "earth warlock" and "ironwood" start leaving your mouth (though i'll agree that ironwood is a reasonably *probable* selection for most earth warlocks at level 8, so at least it's not likely to be level 9). this is, in fact, significantly lower than usual; the standard invocation version is level 12. as far as shamans, i can't speak for their spirits, but of them all only plant shamans should likely be able to cast ironwood. i don't know how they learn their spells, but in all likelihood, you'll likely need level 8 minimum there too.

either way, level 8 characters don't exactly grow on trees. unless the party has this level 8 earth warlock in it (and frankly, air by *far* seems to be the most common choice i've ever seen), that means you have to find a level 8 warlock who is willing to travel (which means danger, so expect to pay for that), and who is not already doing something else (which seems unlikely, given that you don't typically get to level 8 by sitting on your butt all day doing nothing).

however, even if we presume that ironwood *is* available one way or another, it's not exactly free, either. and of course, usually when something like this comes up, someone will show up to argue that casting spells, even when a ley line is providing all the energy, is not an effortless thing to do either (though to be fair, that's more of a supposition than anything you could conclusively point to hard evidence of)

secondly, their "construction" spells. provided we're talking about permanent, they are as follows:

(disclaimer: i don't have mysteries of magic, which i understand offers some palladium fantasy spells for warlocks)

create mound
dig

they also have spells that are really *useful* for construction projects, but are not in themselves construction spells (that is, they don't create structures, just materials). that said, odds are good that you don't need an earth warlock to create lots of dirt, rock, sand, clay, or wood for you (and if you do, don't expect it to be cheap... typically speaking, you're looking at 50 lbs/level per spell... at KC's 1,000 credits per spell level per casting, your 250k credit hire fee will net you about 100,000 lbs of dirt or clay), though transmuting, say, clay into iron (or even lead), would probably have quite a few useful applications (note: you'd get 1/5 the volume of the amount of clay that can be conjured in stone or lead, or 1/6 the volume in iron, provided you had already built the stuff you want transmuted out of clay). that said... you're looking at a *lot* of volume in even a wall around the town.

thirdly, their supposed ability to specially create MDC stone structures: does not exist, canonically speaking. i suspect those stone structures you're looking at are considered to have a lot of MDC because they have a truly ridiculous amount of SDC. an "MDC stone bunker" is probably nothing more than a bunker with really thick (but otherwise completely 100% normal) stone walls. now, don't get me wrong; extremely thick stone walls that have tens of thousands of SDC are still incredibly useful (frankly, i'd say they're at least 95% as useful as walls with the equivalent amount of MDC are, actually, provided we presume there aren't a lot of mobs armed with SDC weapons capable of damaging a stone wall, which i don't think is *too* unreasonable). but this isn't a special ability unique to earth warlocks. it's never really explained in the SoT series.

now, don't get me wrong... if the group has an earth warlock, you can get a lot done with that. the ability to sculpt something out of 400 lbs of clay and then turn it into iron is something that i'm sure many modern building companies would drool over, and i'm sure a massive iron wall surrounding a town would be a remarkably solid barrier even against MDC opponents. but you're not going to hire an earth warlock for 2 days, and get some totally awesome landscaping done in that time.

Tolkeen had *years* to prepare for war, with an entire community of magicians of all varieties supporting the war effort, likely making larger amounts of PPE available, etc. don't expect to get the same results in two days with a single earth warlock.

earth warlocks are definitely awesomely useful, especially in situations like this. but they're not quite as awesome as many of you seem to have built them up to be.

[Killer Cyborg]

Thank you, Shark Force, for summing up some of my thoughts in a more coherent and detailed way.

[Nightmask]

Easier to make use of Biomancers, their Strengthen Plant spell is only level 4 so a living forest of protective barriers made MDC would be cheaper overall than trying to use Ironwood to create non-living MDC wooden barriers.

[Shark_Force]

Easier to make use of Biomancers, their Strengthen Plant spell is only level 4 so a living forest of protective barriers made MDC would be cheaper overall than trying to use Ironwood to create non-living MDC wooden barriers.

even better, plant shamans iirc get access to *all* plant spells, including those from biomancy explicity, according to my copy of the BoM. and unlike biomancers, plant shamans *are* native to north america.

of course, you now have to figure out a few critical things.

first, you need to figure out how to make a living plant barrier over the course of only 6 months (note: i'm not questioning the feasibility of the barrier, but rather of growing said barrier in only 6 months).

secondly, you have to persuade a plant shaman to do it for you, in particular one that knows the spell. i can honestly say that i lack the information to figure out how likely or unlikely this is... spirit west has never been my favourite book, and i'm pretty sure it's the one with all the information i would need. i think i briefly glanced through it once, decided i liked it even less than the regular new west (i don't mind watching westerns, but i've never felt the desire to role-play in a western setting), and continued on.

thirdly, you need to get access to enough PPE. even if a shaman is willing... 400 PPE plus a variable cost depending on what you're transforming means it isn't a trivial undertaking.

[flatline]

I'm going to ignore the capabilities of the character party and just focus on what the town can do for itself.

The goal is to make it as obvious as possible that there's nothing in the town valuable enough to be worth attacking the town for. Using valuable equipment to defend the town actually makes the town look more appealing to bandits who might like to have that equipment for themselves. Similarly, defending the town in unusual ways might draw unwanted attention. The best bet is to establish conventional defenses that the cost of dealing with is greater than any expected gain.

We've already got a good start with a town wall with towers. The next step is to clear the land around the wall, slope and terrace it so that approaching the wall is both exposed and slow going. This will give defenders more time to fire on approaching hostiles. It will also act as a deterrent since ambush predators don't like being in the open and bandits don't like being exposed to gunfire. If there's a nearby source of water sufficient to the task, a moat could be an excellent addition since it is a natural barrier and it will make surrounding down-slope ground soft and treacherous.

Equip the towers with multi-optics equipment, spot lights, parabolic microphones, a heavy machinegun each (with normal rounds, tracer rounds, explosive rounds, and a reasonable amount of ramjet or similar rounds), and high pressure hoses. The hoses are critical since they can be used to slow down the advance of any hostiles and, if you arrange for injecting oils into the water stream, you can quickly coat the enemy and surrounding terrain with a thin layer of oil. This will make the ground more difficult to cover, make them smelly and disgusting, and, if necessary, can be ignited by tracer or explosive rounds from the machinegun (or other weapons).

Equip the wall defenders with shotguns and a variety of APRJ rounds (best conventional bang for the buck MD ammo that I'm aware of), regular slugs, and perhaps a small number of explosive/plasma rounds each. Do not use Naruni or other technology that will spell your doom if the CS ever ventures your way. I realize that shotguns have less range than the tower machineguns (and probably even high pressure hoses), but remember, our goal is economical deterrent. We don't need to kill advancing hostiles, just make them want to find easier victims.

Beside helmets, I'm not certain that tower or wall defenders really need significant armor. Hostile fauna won't ever get close enough to be a problem, and bandits will keep their distance once it's obvious that their repair costs will be greater than the value of any loot they might get should they overcome the town defenses.

Side note: I'm a little shocked that they list 3000' as the range of a heavy machinegun. They might not be accurate past that, but accuracy isn't necessary when you can send a spray of heavy bullets with tracers over a mile away. Being on the receiving end of that should be terrifying even if there's little chance of any particular bullet hitting you.

I like KC's idea of having squads of soldiers capable of venturing outside the walls to engage hostile forces before they get to the town walls. The only thing I'd like to add to what he listed was radios. Each tower should have a radio and any squads outside the walls should have radios. If you're afraid the enemy might find you by tracking your radio transmissions, make them low powered radios and deploy higher powered relays in the surrounding countryside. The soldier's radio signal will be extremely hard to track with the more powerful relays transmitting at the same time on a nearby frequency.

The cost of all this should come in well below the $500k budget, so if you want to armor your tower and wall defenders, you can. If I could find mortars in any of my books, I would suggest placing mortars along the wall (probably not in the tower, unless it's large enough for both the spot light, machine gun, hose apparatus, AND a mortar). They have long ranges, super cheap ammunition, and can target indirectly so you can target and harass hostiles that attempt to take cover (or bring their own cover).

I would specifically avoid investing in any power armor, missile weapons, active radar, or any large MD weapon emplacements. If you look too well defended, suddenly people are interested in you again. Small vehicles (dirt bikes, hover cycles, and small trucks) would be excellent additions, especially if you had to go hunting dangerous game known to be in the area, but might be a liability against bandits (who might be interested in your vehicles).

Without knowing more about available resources, that's as far as I think I'll go tonight (it's past my bedtime).

--flatline

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I'm going to ignore the capabilities of the character party and just focus on what the town can do for itself.

I think the "character party" may simply be the town heroes, or retired heros who now live in the town in their twilight years. That is the vibe i got, which is why he didnt list exactly what they were -

i think what he's getting at is trying to figure out what the town will look like when the PCs in his game actually get there. Thats why he's giving us our pick of any magic OCC, master psychic, etc, without detailing exactly what they are, because perhaps the town went out and headhunted some retirees/heros looking to settle down of exactly the types it needed to have the most optimal defenses.

Maybe they aren't getting paid except with "you get to live here and the town takes care of you and you got a free house/etc".

Until we hear more from the OP, though, i agree its hard to go further. Also until we hear from the OP, i dont want to work on a plan, because availability of cheap armor radically affects what i'd build like, though i *completely* agree with the "dont make it look like we have lots of cool stuff" - thats why i went with Ramjet rounds and uprated SDC weapons. Not only are they cheaper, but when bandits come to raid and the town opens fire on them with cheap uprated SDC weapons, the Bandits are likely to take it as a sign that the place isn't worth raiding - they may take casualties and materiel damage for what... some Ramjets and maybe a few old landmines? Yeah, hardly worth it.

Also, the APRJ shotgun rounds list a 500ft range, which isn't shabby.

[Rockwolf66]

Side note: I'm a little shocked that they list 3000' as the range of a heavy machinegun. They might not be accurate past that, but accuracy isn't necessary when you can send a spray of heavy bullets with tracers over a mile away. Being on the receiving end of that should be terrifying even if there's little chance of any particular bullet hitting you.

I like KC's idea of having squads of soldiers capable of venturing outside the walls to engage hostile forces before they get to the town walls. The only thing I'd like to add to what he listed was radios. Each tower should have a radio and any squads outside the walls should have radios. If you're afraid the enemy might find you by tracking your radio transmissions, make them low powered radios and deploy higher powered relays in the surrounding countryside. The soldier's radio signal will be extremely hard to track with the more powerful relays transmitting at the same time on a nearby frequency.

The cost of all this should come in well below the $500k budget, so if you want to armor your tower and wall defenders, you can. If I could find mortars in any of my books, I would suggest placing mortars along the wall (probably not in the tower, unless it's large enough for both the spot light, machine gun, hose apparatus, AND a mortar). They have long ranges, super cheap ammunition, and can target indirectly so you can target and harass hostiles that attempt to take cover (or bring their own cover).

--flatline

The average affective range of a Heavy Machinegun IRL is about 6.560 feet(2,000m) with the right gunnary tables that range doubles but you are useing it as an area affect weapon then. in vietnam they piggybacked a .50 machinegun on a 81mm Mortar.

USCG Gun/Mortar picture

As far as Location and Climate goes lets put this town in Southeastern Colorado in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Any chance of getting a re-post of the OP with some of the additional requested info (level of party of adventurers/helpers, etc) ?

[kaid]

For the ability for elementals to create MDC stone works I am going by the stuff found in the coalition war campaign. If you look in book five they list a number of warlock/elemental built towers/walls/structures and list their MDC. Now it is true it may just be that they are actually SDC structures with massive amounts of SDC but the effect for the village would be the same.

[Killer Cyborg]

I like KC's idea of having squads of soldiers capable of venturing outside the walls to engage hostile forces before they get to the town walls. The only thing I'd like to add to what he listed was radios. Each tower should have a radio and any squads outside the walls should have radios. If you're afraid the enemy might find you by tracking your radio transmissions, make them low powered radios and deploy higher powered relays in the surrounding countryside. The soldier's radio signal will be extremely hard to track with the more powerful relays transmitting at the same time on a nearby frequency.

I initially included radios with each Scout and Soldier, but the ones I could find that fit what I needed were CR 3000+, and that bumped up the cost of the militia incredibly.
You could have 1 radio per x troops instead of per soldier, though, and that would cut the costs significantly.
If you have a cell phone tower built in the city itself, you could go with cell phones instead, probably for cheaper, although it would stand high enough that it could make a good target for anybody wanting to take out your communications network. Then again, it'd make a great lookout tower too, while it lasted.

[flatline]

I like KC's idea of having squads of soldiers capable of venturing outside the walls to engage hostile forces before they get to the town walls. The only thing I'd like to add to what he listed was radios. Each tower should have a radio and any squads outside the walls should have radios. If you're afraid the enemy might find you by tracking your radio transmissions, make them low powered radios and deploy higher powered relays in the surrounding countryside. The soldier's radio signal will be extremely hard to track with the more powerful relays transmitting at the same time on a nearby frequency.

I initially included radios with each Scout and Soldier, but the ones I could find that fit what I needed were CR 3000+, and that bumped up the cost of the militia incredibly.
You could have 1 radio per x troops instead of per soldier, though, and that would cut the costs significantly.
If you have a cell phone tower built in the city itself, you could go with cell phones instead, probably for cheaper, although it would stand high enough that it could make a good target for anybody wanting to take out your communications network. Then again, it'd make a great lookout tower too, while it lasted.

$3000 is way more radio than I had in mind. Simple hand held radio with scrambler would be sufficient as long as it could transmit and recieve on different frequencies (that's how you use a repeater). Modern equivalent single-band hand helds (UHF/VHF or similar) can be had today for less than $150 which would be more than adequate as long as you're never more than, say, 5 miles from a repeater.

Repeaters might range anywhere from $1500-$3000 or even higher depending on the capabilities you're looking for.

Perhaps this is an area where the equipment in the books poorly represents what really should be available.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

I like KC's idea of having squads of soldiers capable of venturing outside the walls to engage hostile forces before they get to the town walls. The only thing I'd like to add to what he listed was radios. Each tower should have a radio and any squads outside the walls should have radios. If you're afraid the enemy might find you by tracking your radio transmissions, make them low powered radios and deploy higher powered relays in the surrounding countryside. The soldier's radio signal will be extremely hard to track with the more powerful relays transmitting at the same time on a nearby frequency.

I initially included radios with each Scout and Soldier, but the ones I could find that fit what I needed were CR 3000+, and that bumped up the cost of the militia incredibly.
You could have 1 radio per x troops instead of per soldier, though, and that would cut the costs significantly.
If you have a cell phone tower built in the city itself, you could go with cell phones instead, probably for cheaper, although it would stand high enough that it could make a good target for anybody wanting to take out your communications network. Then again, it'd make a great lookout tower too, while it lasted.

$3000 is way more radio than I had in mind. Simple hand held radio with scrambler would be sufficient as long as it could transmit and recieve on different frequencies (that's how you use a repeater). Modern equivalent single-band hand helds (UHF/VHF or similar) can be had today for less than $150 which would be more than adequate as long as you're never more than, say, 5 miles from a repeater.

Repeaters might range anywhere from $1500-$3000 or even higher depending on the capabilities you're looking for.

Perhaps this is an area where the equipment in the books poorly represents what really should be available.

--flatline

I might have simply not found the right piece of equipment; there's a lot to sift through.
I was going off of the Wilk's PRC-5 Secure Walkie-Talkie (Merc Ops, 106), in part because it has a program that scrambles the signals without any skills on the part of the user.
It's got a range of 10 miles, and 96 hours of life.
Other equipment in Merc Ops (110-111) includes the cell phones I mentioned, along with an Ear Mic Radio Receiver and Transmitter (CR 2200 each, range 1 mile), and a Field Expedient Antenna that can boost the range of a radio set up to 2x normal range. You can get the components for about CR 100.
But 2 mile range isn't what I was looking for either. And, again, the cost wasn't great.

The RGMG has communications equipment too, starting on p. 183.
The Communicator Old Style Radio. It's much more reasonable: CR 150 each, with a 3 mile range.
There are also Communicators, which are about the size of a cell phone, and have a range of 5 miles. They're CR 1,500. And there's a larger version, more like a full walkie-talkie, that has a range of 10 miles for CR 3,000.
And there are Communication Helmets, which are pretty cool and have a range of 5-10 miles... but they're CR 5,500-10,000.

The best bang for the buck, I suppose, is the Field Radio. It's a backpack-style radio, which is why I didn't really go for it, but I might rethink that. It has a range of 60 miles in cities, and 150 miles in wilderness. They're only CR 600 each.
For my purposes, having one radio per three scouts might not be too bad.
But I want them to travel light and fast, and I don't like the backpack-style radios for that.

[kaid]

I like KC's idea of having squads of soldiers capable of venturing outside the walls to engage hostile forces before they get to the town walls. The only thing I'd like to add to what he listed was radios. Each tower should have a radio and any squads outside the walls should have radios. If you're afraid the enemy might find you by tracking your radio transmissions, make them low powered radios and deploy higher powered relays in the surrounding countryside. The soldier's radio signal will be extremely hard to track with the more powerful relays transmitting at the same time on a nearby frequency.

I initially included radios with each Scout and Soldier, but the ones I could find that fit what I needed were CR 3000+, and that bumped up the cost of the militia incredibly.
You could have 1 radio per x troops instead of per soldier, though, and that would cut the costs significantly.
If you have a cell phone tower built in the city itself, you could go with cell phones instead, probably for cheaper, although it would stand high enough that it could make a good target for anybody wanting to take out your communications network. Then again, it'd make a great lookout tower too, while it lasted.

$3000 is way more radio than I had in mind. Simple hand held radio with scrambler would be sufficient as long as it could transmit and recieve on different frequencies (that's how you use a repeater). Modern equivalent single-band hand helds (UHF/VHF or similar) can be had today for less than $150 which would be more than adequate as long as you're never more than, say, 5 miles from a repeater.

Repeaters might range anywhere from $1500-$3000 or even higher depending on the capabilities you're looking for.

Perhaps this is an area where the equipment in the books poorly represents what really should be available.

--flatline

I might have simply not found the right piece of equipment; there's a lot to sift through.
I was going off of the Wilk's PRC-5 Secure Walkie-Talkie (Merc Ops, 106), in part because it has a program that scrambles the signals without any skills on the part of the user.
It's got a range of 10 miles, and 96 hours of life.
Other equipment in Merc Ops (110-111) includes the cell phones I mentioned, along with an Ear Mic Radio Receiver and Transmitter (CR 2200 each, range 1 mile), and a Field Expedient Antenna that can boost the range of a radio set up to 2x normal range. You can get the components for about CR 100.
But 2 mile range isn't what I was looking for either. And, again, the cost wasn't great.

The RGMG has communications equipment too, starting on p. 183.
The Communicator Old Style Radio. It's much more reasonable: CR 150 each, with a 3 mile range.
There are also Communicators, which are about the size of a cell phone, and have a range of 5 miles. They're CR 1,500. And there's a larger version, more like a full walkie-talkie, that has a range of 10 miles for CR 3,000.
And there are Communication Helmets, which are pretty cool and have a range of 5-10 miles... but they're CR 5,500-10,000.

The best bang for the buck, I suppose, is the Field Radio. It's a backpack-style radio, which is why I didn't really go for it, but I might rethink that. It has a range of 60 miles in cities, and 150 miles in wilderness. They're only CR 600 each.
For my purposes, having one radio per three scouts might not be too bad.
But I want them to travel light and fast, and I don't like the backpack-style radios for that.

Given the threats are likely to be low tech like simvan should not have to worry to much about encrypted transmissions so a normal field radio given the ranges and prices is damn good bang for the buck and getting at least a few for the town seems a wise idea.

[flatline]

I like KC's idea of having squads of soldiers capable of venturing outside the walls to engage hostile forces before they get to the town walls. The only thing I'd like to add to what he listed was radios. Each tower should have a radio and any squads outside the walls should have radios. If you're afraid the enemy might find you by tracking your radio transmissions, make them low powered radios and deploy higher powered relays in the surrounding countryside. The soldier's radio signal will be extremely hard to track with the more powerful relays transmitting at the same time on a nearby frequency.

I initially included radios with each Scout and Soldier, but the ones I could find that fit what I needed were CR 3000+, and that bumped up the cost of the militia incredibly.
You could have 1 radio per x troops instead of per soldier, though, and that would cut the costs significantly.
If you have a cell phone tower built in the city itself, you could go with cell phones instead, probably for cheaper, although it would stand high enough that it could make a good target for anybody wanting to take out your communications network. Then again, it'd make a great lookout tower too, while it lasted.

$3000 is way more radio than I had in mind. Simple hand held radio with scrambler would be sufficient as long as it could transmit and recieve on different frequencies (that's how you use a repeater). Modern equivalent single-band hand helds (UHF/VHF or similar) can be had today for less than $150 which would be more than adequate as long as you're never more than, say, 5 miles from a repeater.

Repeaters might range anywhere from $1500-$3000 or even higher depending on the capabilities you're looking for.

Perhaps this is an area where the equipment in the books poorly represents what really should be available.

--flatline

I might have simply not found the right piece of equipment; there's a lot to sift through.
I was going off of the Wilk's PRC-5 Secure Walkie-Talkie (Merc Ops, 106), in part because it has a program that scrambles the signals without any skills on the part of the user.
It's got a range of 10 miles, and 96 hours of life.
Other equipment in Merc Ops (110-111) includes the cell phones I mentioned, along with an Ear Mic Radio Receiver and Transmitter (CR 2200 each, range 1 mile), and a Field Expedient Antenna that can boost the range of a radio set up to 2x normal range. You can get the components for about CR 100.
But 2 mile range isn't what I was looking for either. And, again, the cost wasn't great.

The RGMG has communications equipment too, starting on p. 183.
The Communicator Old Style Radio. It's much more reasonable: CR 150 each, with a 3 mile range.
There are also Communicators, which are about the size of a cell phone, and have a range of 5 miles. They're CR 1,500. And there's a larger version, more like a full walkie-talkie, that has a range of 10 miles for CR 3,000.
And there are Communication Helmets, which are pretty cool and have a range of 5-10 miles... but they're CR 5,500-10,000.

The best bang for the buck, I suppose, is the Field Radio. It's a backpack-style radio, which is why I didn't really go for it, but I might rethink that. It has a range of 60 miles in cities, and 150 miles in wilderness. They're only CR 600 each.
For my purposes, having one radio per three scouts might not be too bad.
But I want them to travel light and fast, and I don't like the backpack-style radios for that.

Okay, based on your description of what's available and my understanding of the kinds of setups us HAMS use today, I imagine the following kind of arrangement would be easily manageable by anyone with the proper skills (the town already has a functional nuclear plant, so this shouldn't seem too outlandish...).

Give each group at least one Communicator Old Style Radio (COSR). You could give one to each individual if you want or just one or two for each squad. From your description, these sound like UHF/VHF units.

Use the Field Radio as your repeaters and tower units. Their range indicates that they use bands below UHF/VHF and their price is low enough that I'm not going to argue that they can handle multiple bands, so you'd want to connect them with one or two COSRs so that they can receive/transmit to the COSRs your men are carrying while using HF to communicate with other repeaters and the tower units. It would function as one large net where anything received within range of one repeater is rebroadcast both in UHF/VHF to nearby COSRs and to other repeaters who then broadcast it over their UFH/VFH transmitters. You could carve up the spectrum to have a couple of dozen different channels available to you at any time.

Ignoring terrain considerations, imagine a hex board where each hex is roughly 6 miles across. You'd need one repeater per hex to cover whatever area you're interested in. The width of each hex is actually a little pessimistic since repeaters can use larger, more sensitive antennas and so will likely be able to talk to a COSR at more than a 3 mile range...but we'll keep that limit as a simplifying assumption for now.

If you want to make a larger net available to units with the Field radios, you can do the same thing except now each hex is 60 miles across. And you could totally do both nets at the same time. Set up your net to have dense coverage near town so COSRs are all you need close to home and then sparse coverage further away that is only reliable to those with field radios. A dozen repeaters would give you dense coverage for 10 or 15 miles in any direction from town and then another dozen repeaters would probably give you 200+ miles worth of range for field radios.

Anyways, thats a rough plan. Lots of capability for not a whole lot of money. I'm just guessing on the coverage range...I'd need to draw it out on paper to be able to give you better numbers.

Edit: I originally said the larger network hex would be 120 miles across...I corrected it to be 60.

--flatline

[Rockwolf66]

Reposting what I origionally said with the question that have been asked and My answers.

Ok here is a challange for the forum.

Your characters have been asked to develope the defenses of a walled town of 120 houses. The wall is 10 feet of Mega damage rock with towers on the corners and the front gate. You have been given 500,000 credits to augment the town defences to both detect and discorage the local bandits, Simvan and wandering monsters.

Now by using the various Rifts titles come up with a layered defense that is apropriate for North America.

What are the town's resources outside of the CR 500k, and do we have access to them?
As in, if we want to dig a moat, can we assume that labor is pretty free on that, or do we need to calculate an hourly wage?

Well you have currently about 100 families living in town. There is power from an old Nuclear generator so you do have power. The families want to be safe so they will pitch in to help.

Also, how high are the walls? Towers? Gates?

The walls are fifteen feet high and the towers are an even twenty.

And what are the most common wandering monsters in the area?

It's in North America so outside of the Simvan you have Brodkil, dinosaurs, Rino-buffalo and the usual Manage of western Monsters.

You are outside of CS territory so you don't have to worry about them sending a bomber to flatten you.

1. What classes are the characters?
2. How permanent must this be?
3. How much time do we have to create this?
4. Are we close to a ley line nexus?

I was thinking say a NA apropriate mage, a Master Psychic, a pair of Adventurer classes and a couple of Man at Arms classes. This is a permanent settlement so the defenses must last for a while. Say six months to a year. You are a day or so travel from a Ley line.

And as I said earlier you are outside of CS territory.

When shopping for gear and items, what kind of availability can we assume access to?
As in, if we can afford the list price can, we safely assume that we can buy it?

As long as it's NA apropriate yes.

Hmm... Too many unknowns to make a good estimate. We need information on local plant life, local wildlife, foliage, brush cover, terrain for the surrounding 20 miles, and a list of tradable resources that the town has to gauge how much the town will have access to for renewing their ammunition supplies, as well as repairs.

Regional information
I am not going to do all of your work for you.

I think that the Level of the party in question would matter quite a deal.

4th through 8th level.

[Subjugator]

Are diabolists considered to be North America appropriate?

[Zamion138]

Reposting what I origionally said with the question that have been asked and My answers.

Ok here is a challange for the forum.

Your characters have been asked to develope the defenses of a walled town of 120 houses. The wall is 10 feet of Mega damage rock with towers on the corners and the front gate. You have been given 500,000 credits to augment the town defences to both detect and discorage the local bandits, Simvan and wandering monsters.

Now by using the various Rifts titles come up with a layered defense that is apropriate for North America.

What are the town's resources outside of the CR 500k, and do we have access to them?
As in, if we want to dig a moat, can we assume that labor is pretty free on that, or do we need to calculate an hourly wage?

Well you have currently about 100 families living in town. There is power from an old Nuclear generator so you do have power. The families want to be safe so they will pitch in to help.

Also, how high are the walls? Towers? Gates?

The walls are fifteen feet high and the towers are an even twenty.

And what are the most common wandering monsters in the area?

It's in North America so outside of the Simvan you have Brodkil, dinosaurs, Rino-buffalo and the usual Manage of western Monsters.

You are outside of CS territory so you don't have to worry about them sending a bomber to flatten you.

1. What classes are the characters?
2. How permanent must this be?
3. How much time do we have to create this?
4. Are we close to a ley line nexus?

I was thinking say a NA apropriate mage, a Master Psychic, a pair of Adventurer classes and a couple of Man at Arms classes. This is a permanent settlement so the defenses must last for a while. Say six months to a year. You are a day or so travel from a Ley line.

And as I said earlier you are outside of CS territory.

When shopping for gear and items, what kind of availability can we assume access to?
As in, if we can afford the list price can, we safely assume that we can buy it?

As long as it's NA apropriate yes.

Hmm... Too many unknowns to make a good estimate. We need information on local plant life, local wildlife, foliage, brush cover, terrain for the surrounding 20 miles, and a list of tradable resources that the town has to gauge how much the town will have access to for renewing their ammunition supplies, as well as repairs.

Regional information
I am not going to do all of your work for you.

I think that the Level of the party in question would matter quite a deal.

4th through 8th level.

Apon reading these details I still stand behind my first defensive plans

[Killer Cyborg]

I was thinking say a NA apropriate mage, a Master Psychic, a pair of Adventurer classes and a couple of Man at Arms classes.

4th through 8th level.

One last thing I can think of on this front:
Are the characters PART of the defenses, or just there to help get things rolling?

[Rockwolf66]

I was thinking say a NA apropriate mage, a Master Psychic, a pair of Adventurer classes and a couple of Man at Arms classes.

4th through 8th level.

One last thing I can think of on this front:
Are the characters PART of the defenses, or just there to help get things rolling?

Just to get things rolling.

[robertbc73]

Earth warlock for starters. Earth/dirt/stone will even stop MD. 1 greater earth ele= construction crew. My summoner made a castle over time with a greater earth ele. Add in moats, pit falls, jagged rock pit traps, stupidly huge walls, hidden passages, and you cant lose.

[Subjugator]

If a Diabolist was possible, that'd be the clear path to victory. A level 8 warlock can still summon a greater elemental, and I believe that would have a significant effect on the situation.

[Shark_Force]

one thing i'd add to everyone else's ideas:

one person in the party should be a rogue scholar. your militia will be a whole lot more effective if you have someone who can teach skills like, say... weapon proficiencies. and basic repairs and maintenance for the armour. maybe even how to make traps, can't remember if those are wilderness skills available as secondary or military skills likely to be OCC only...

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Did you even read the rest of the thread or the paramaters for the challenge before you posted.... 'cause it doesn't look like you did.

[sagajr]

I might have simply not found the right piece of equipment; there's a lot to sift through.
I was going off of the Wilk's PRC-5 Secure Walkie-Talkie (Merc Ops, 106), in part because it has a program that scrambles the signals without any skills on the part of the user.
It's got a range of 10 miles, and 96 hours of life.
Other equipment in Merc Ops (110-111) includes the cell phones I mentioned, along with an Ear Mic Radio Receiver and Transmitter (CR 2200 each, range 1 mile), and a Field Expedient Antenna that can boost the range of a radio set up to 2x normal range. You can get the components for about CR 100.
But 2 mile range isn't what I was looking for either. And, again, the cost wasn't great.

The RGMG has communications equipment too, starting on p. 183.
The Communicator Old Style Radio. It's much more reasonable: CR 150 each, with a 3 mile range.
There are also Communicators, which are about the size of a cell phone, and have a range of 5 miles. They're CR 1,500. And there's a larger version, more like a full walkie-talkie, that has a range of 10 miles for CR 3,000.
And there are Communication Helmets, which are pretty cool and have a range of 5-10 miles... but they're CR 5,500-10,000.

The best bang for the buck, I suppose, is the Field Radio. It's a backpack-style radio, which is why I didn't really go for it, but I might rethink that. It has a range of 60 miles in cities, and 150 miles in wilderness. They're only CR 600 each.
For my purposes, having one radio per three scouts might not be too bad.
But I want them to travel light and fast, and I don't like the backpack-style radios for that.

Check the pilot's survival kit described in Mercenary Operations page 110. It contains - among other useful things like multi-tool/knife, compass, minimal first-aid kit and so on) a long range walkie-talkie (10 miles range with 72 hours operation time) and the whole package costs a mere 500 credits. Its not perfect, but still an acceptable alternative.

[flatline]

I might have simply not found the right piece of equipment; there's a lot to sift through.
I was going off of the Wilk's PRC-5 Secure Walkie-Talkie (Merc Ops, 106), in part because it has a program that scrambles the signals without any skills on the part of the user.
It's got a range of 10 miles, and 96 hours of life.
Other equipment in Merc Ops (110-111) includes the cell phones I mentioned, along with an Ear Mic Radio Receiver and Transmitter (CR 2200 each, range 1 mile), and a Field Expedient Antenna that can boost the range of a radio set up to 2x normal range. You can get the components for about CR 100.
But 2 mile range isn't what I was looking for either. And, again, the cost wasn't great.

The RGMG has communications equipment too, starting on p. 183.
The Communicator Old Style Radio. It's much more reasonable: CR 150 each, with a 3 mile range.
There are also Communicators, which are about the size of a cell phone, and have a range of 5 miles. They're CR 1,500. And there's a larger version, more like a full walkie-talkie, that has a range of 10 miles for CR 3,000.
And there are Communication Helmets, which are pretty cool and have a range of 5-10 miles... but they're CR 5,500-10,000.

The best bang for the buck, I suppose, is the Field Radio. It's a backpack-style radio, which is why I didn't really go for it, but I might rethink that. It has a range of 60 miles in cities, and 150 miles in wilderness. They're only CR 600 each.
For my purposes, having one radio per three scouts might not be too bad.
But I want them to travel light and fast, and I don't like the backpack-style radios for that.

Check the pilot's survival kit described in Mercenary Operations page 110. It contains - among other useful things like multi-tool/knife, compass, minimal first-aid kit and so on) a long range walkie-talkie (10 miles range with 72 hours operation time) and the whole package costs a mere 500 credits. Its not perfect, but still an acceptable alternative.

What the heck is a "long range walkie-talkie"?

--flatline

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

What the heck is a "long range walkie-talkie"?

--flatline

Exactly what it sounds like. A walkie-talkie with a range of a few miles. Probably.. ~4 channels at most.

[Killer Cyborg]

Check the pilot's survival kit described in Mercenary Operations page 110. It contains - among other useful things like multi-tool/knife, compass, minimal first-aid kit and so on) a long range walkie-talkie (10 miles range with 72 hours operation time) and the whole package costs a mere 500 credits. Its not perfect, but still an acceptable alternative.

Huh.
Good find!

[Mack]

You should consider getting a TW to build an Ironwood device. For example:

Device Level 1
Spell needed: Ironwood
Gems needed: 5 carats of Amber
PPE Construction Cost: 100 PPE
Build Time: 10 hours
Cost to build: 4,000 credits
Activation Cost: 5 PPE
Result: This magical planer converts a normal SDC board (2 inches x 4 inches x 8 feet) into a megadamage structure worth 50 MDC.

Or you can add in Create Wood so you don't need a board to start with:

Device Level 1
Spells needed: Ironwood and Create Wood
Gems needed: 6 carats of Amber
PPE Construction Cost: 140 PPE
Build Time: 14 hours
Cost to build: 5,000 credits
Activation Cost: 7 PPE
Result: This magical planer creates a megadamage board (2 inches x 4 inches x 8 feet) worth 50 MDC.

(Note - I made this with the assumption that a normal board of that size would be 50 SDC to start with. If anyone has a SDC reference for a 2x4, I'll adjust accordingly.)

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

You should consider getting a TW to build an Ironwood device. For example:

Device Level 1
Spell needed: Ironwood
Gems needed: 5 carats of Amber
PPE Construction Cost: 100 PPE
Build Time: 10 hours
Cost to build: 4,000 credits
Activation Cost: 5 PPE
Result: This magical planer converts a normal SDC board (2 inches x 4 inches x 8 feet) into a megadamage structure worth 50 MDC.

Or you can add in Create Wood so you don't need a board to start with:

Device Level 1
Spells needed: Ironwood and Create Wood
Gems needed: 6 carats of Amber
PPE Construction Cost: 140 PPE
Build Time: 14 hours
Cost to build: 5,000 credits
Activation Cost: 7 PPE
Result: This magical planer creates a megadamage board (2 inches x 4 inches x 8 feet) worth 50 MDC.

(Note - I made this with the assumption that a normal board of that size would be 50 SDC to start with. If anyone has a SDC reference for a 2x4, I'll adjust accordingly.)

The counter-argument from most people is going to be that Ironwould should be totally impossible to find because it isa 12th level spell, and mere mortals and player charaters aren't allowed to have those.

I'm only mostly kidding or being sarcastic.

I love the idea though.

[Shark_Force]

Soldiers and Wilderness Scouts can train that stuff. The Rogue Scholar should be training some of them to read, and maybe a few other useful skills. Heck, even medical skills are taught by other classes. The Scholar's big advantage is having a wider spread of these skills, and likely being one of the few people in a party that is both prepared and able to teach others. Once he has taught them to learn, then it gets easier for others how aren't so proficient in teaching.

errr... no.

the rogue scholar actually has an ability to teach. the other people know how to do it. that doesn't mean they're good at teaching anyone else how to do it. there are plenty of people in the world who can do something just fine, but suck horribly at teaching other people how to do it.

if you want someone who is going to teach people how to do things, you want a rogue scholar. not any of the other OCCs (though if there was a boot camp drill sergeant OCC, i'm sure they'd be great at teaching skills too). their specialty is imparting knowledge to others in ways those other people can understand. a wilderness scout could probably teach you about living in the wilderness, but it will take the wilderness scout longer to get the same level of success as a rogue scholar performing the same task (provided the rogue scholar knows the skills that are being trained). not because the scholar knows more about the wilderness, but simply because the rogue scholar knows how to teach.

[Galroth]

You should consider getting a TW to build an Ironwood device. For example:

Device Level 1
Spell needed: Ironwood
Gems needed: 5 carats of Amber
PPE Construction Cost: 100 PPE
Build Time: 10 hours
Cost to build: 4,000 credits
Activation Cost: 5 PPE
Result: This magical planer converts a normal SDC board (2 inches x 4 inches x 8 feet) into a megadamage structure worth 50 MDC.

Or you can add in Create Wood so you don't need a board to start with:

Device Level 1
Spells needed: Ironwood and Create Wood
Gems needed: 6 carats of Amber
PPE Construction Cost: 140 PPE
Build Time: 14 hours
Cost to build: 5,000 credits
Activation Cost: 7 PPE
Result: This magical planer creates a megadamage board (2 inches x 4 inches x 8 feet) worth 50 MDC.

(Note - I made this with the assumption that a normal board of that size would be 50 SDC to start with. If anyone has a SDC reference for a 2x4, I'll adjust accordingly.)

The counter-argument from most people is going to be that Ironwould should be totally impossible to find because it isa 12th level spell, and mere mortals and player charaters aren't allowed to have those.

I'm only mostly kidding or being sarcastic.

I love the idea though.

Techno-wizards can also work with Warlocks to get the spell at the lower Earth Warlock level.

[wyrmraker]

Information I would require as the party outfitting this town:
Water supply
Food supply
Renewing value items
Local Terrain to a radius of 20 miles
Local trade routes

All of these are necessary for determining how I would outfit a town.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Question for KC:

10 arrows tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20 each

Was this done in a canon source or are you extrapolating?

[wyrmraker]

Question for KC:

10 arrows tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20 each

Was this done in a canon source or are you extrapolating?

Actually, I would think that anyone with Weapons Engineer could make that modification.

[Nightmask]

Question for KC:

10 arrows tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20 each

Was this done in a canon source or are you extrapolating?

Actually, I would think that anyone with Weapons Engineer could make that modification.

That's beyond cheap considering the High-Explosive arrowheads in the book cost 900 credits for an arrow that does only 3d6 Mega-Damage.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Question for KC:

10 arrows tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20 each

Was this done in a canon source or are you extrapolating?

Actually, I would think that anyone with Weapons Engineer could make that modification.

That's beyond cheap considering the High-Explosive arrowheads in the book cost 900 credits for an arrow that does only 3d6 Mega-Damage.

It was noted somewhere that the price of high-tech arrowheads has gone down (and was cut in half), but i cant remember what book i just read that in. I've got seven or eight of them open here, while working on this project.

FWIW, im trying not to get into grey-areas that will be argued over. The one thing im going to do to save truckloads of money, im sure will get screamed about anyhow (hello, Ironwood.) I agree that it *should* be feasilble, but a lot of things that *should* be feasible in Rifts basically cant be, because if they were, a ton of the stuff in the books makes no sense and is useless. (Like the aforementioned explosive arrowheads at 450cr a pop)

So, i agree it is beyond cheap. However, KC is usually pretty good about finding obscure stuff in books - im going 50/50 on this one actually being in print somewhere. If it is... scouts are dangerous, yo.

[wyrmraker]

High Tech arrowheads have indeed come down in price. Sourcebook One Revised, page 51

But bear in mind that explosive arrowheads won't get you executed by a wandering CS patrol, unlike the Naruni Plasma Cartridges

[Nightmask]

High Tech arrowheads have indeed come down in price. Sourcebook One Revised, page 51

But bear in mind that explosive arrowheads won't get you executed by a wandering CS patrol, unlike the Naruni Plasma Cartridges

That's an oddly thorough patrol that inspects the arrowheads on the arrows to be sure they aren't alien/banned technology. They'd have to be pretty bored to be that complete.

[Killer Cyborg]

Question for KC:

10 arrows tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20 each

Was this done in a canon source or are you extrapolating?

Actually, I would think that anyone with Weapons Engineer could make that modification.

That's beyond cheap considering the High-Explosive arrowheads in the book cost 900 credits for an arrow that does only 3d6 Mega-Damage.

It was noted somewhere that the price of high-tech arrowheads has gone down (and was cut in half), but i cant remember what book i just read that in. I've got seven or eight of them open here, while working on this project.

FWIW, im trying not to get into grey-areas that will be argued over. The one thing im going to do to save truckloads of money, im sure will get screamed about anyhow (hello, Ironwood.) I agree that it *should* be feasilble, but a lot of things that *should* be feasible in Rifts basically cant be, because if they were, a ton of the stuff in the books makes no sense and is useless. (Like the aforementioned explosive arrowheads at 450cr a pop)

So, i agree it is beyond cheap. However, KC is usually pretty good about finding obscure stuff in books - im going 50/50 on this one actually being in print somewhere. If it is... scouts are dangerous, yo.

It's NOT actually in the books. Not as arrows.

But I do know that it's perfectly possible to put make powerheads pretty simply.
As Wikipedia explains it:
A powerhead consists of a long length of tubing which is the chamber for the cartridge, a firing pin to fire the cartridge, and usually some form of safety pin or latch that prevents firing when it is engaged. The rear of the power head is fitted with some provision for attaching to a spear.[1]

Powerheads are available that chamber a variety of handgun, rifle, and shotgun cartridges, from .22 WMR to 12 gauge and larger. .357 Magnum is probably the most common, as it is fairly powerful yet still compact enough to be used in a spear gun. Large cartridges such as the 12 gauge are generally only used on a handheld spear.[1]

Basically, you put a standard round into a spear, then either launch the spear at the target or stab the spear at the target.
(On the TV show Weapon Masters, they added powerhead tips to atlatl spears in order to come up with spears that could pierce conquistador armor)
When the tip of the spear, which is to say, the cartridge, hits the target, it effectively slams the cartridge back onto the firing pin, which ends up with the same result as when a gun slams the firing pin into the cartridge: the cartridge fires.

Which is exactly the same way that a bullet mine works.
With a bullet mine, which can supposedly be created using a piece of bamboo, a shotgun shell, and a nail, the pressure of the foot stepping down onto the cartridge pushes the cartridge down onto the nail, which acts as a firing pin, and sets off the cartridge.
I first heard about them back in Marvel Comics' New Universe comic book Mark Hazzard: Merc, and he didn't even use bamboo in that, just buried a rock, a nail, and a shotgun shell.
Even back, then, I was skeptical if this would actually work, but I've heard variations on the concept repeatedly since then, attributed to the Viet Cong (that's the bamboo version), or to modern meth dealers or pot growers who don't want people (like cops) trespassing.
But, again, the principle is the same as with the powerhead, which is the same as with a gun.
Guns work.
Powerheads work.
So bullet mines should work, in theory.
I'm skeptical about whether or not the force of a normal footstep would actually set off a cartridge, but it seems pretty clear that if you set such a mine up correctly, and stomped on it, it would detonate.
Some people say that if you have a sharp point, like a nail, it doesn't take much force at all, and a normal footstep would in fact set it off.
Personally, I'm not going to test this out.

And we know that Naruni rounds can be used to make Bullet Mines, because that's specified in the Trap Construction skill (RGMG 64), in the section titled "Naruni Bullet Mine:"
A crippling trap design which employs a Naruni plasma cartridge or small explosive. The cartridge is placed in a small hole in the ground atop a nail or firing pin, then covered by a camouflaged wooden slat. When someone steps on the slat, the cartridge is pressed down on the firing pin, triggering a plasma blast that inflicts 1d4x10 MD to the victim's foot. Uncommon, due to the generally poor availability of Naruni ammunition.

So we know that Naruni rounds work like normal cartridges.
And we know that powerheads use normal cartridges for spears and spearguns, and logically would work with arrows as well.
So we know that a Naruni round could be used in a powerhead-type projectile.

Now, what we don't know is how big a normal Naruni plasma cartridge IS, and we DO know that a 12-gauge powerhead is generally considered to be too large for a speargun spear (as mentioned in the link above).
So a normal Naruni Plasma Cartridge might be too large for a powerhead-type arrow.
But Naruni also makes a smaller round for their NE-H10 Plasma Derringer (RGMG 151), and this derringer is "small enough to be hidden in a pocket or even up a sleeve," and that it weighs less than one pound.
Which makes me think that the derringer rounds are probably pretty small compared to shotgun shells, most likely not much bigger than a .357 round (which can be used in powerheads).
Since the COP .357 Derringer has 4 barrels, and weighs 1.75 lbs, I'm assuming that a normal .357 derringer would weigh roughly half of that, which would fit with the weight of the Naruni Derringer, indicating that it might have similar sized rounds or smaller.

So no, it's not 100% official.
But it seems so perfectly reasonable to me that I could not find any real way to object to them if a player wanted to make them in a game I was running, and had any kind of weapon-making or otherwise appropriate crafting skill.

[wyrmraker]

High Tech arrowheads have indeed come down in price. Sourcebook One Revised, page 51

But bear in mind that explosive arrowheads won't get you executed by a wandering CS patrol, unlike the Naruni Plasma Cartridges

That's an oddly thorough patrol that inspects the arrowheads on the arrows to be sure they aren't alien/banned technology. They'd have to be pretty bored to be that complete.

Sadly, it's one of the things that I tend to have to plan for with various GMs. Somehow, the NPCs tend to be somewhat omniscient