Robot Spellcaster Creation Help

[Stone Gargoyle]

I am in the process of trying to figure out robotics which would allow a robot to use magic. In the process of trying to get information on sensory equipment to sense ley lines and sources of PPE, someone mentioned the SNARLS system from Rifts: Japan. I was wondering if someone could share the details with me so I don't have to try and find someone with a physical copy of the book that I can get the information from.

[taalismn]

Or adapt the golemancy spell into the robot's creation...just make sure to incorporate the required 'heart', as well as the spell systems, into the 'bot, and make the required blood sacrifice. The drop of blood and PPE sacrifice suggest that the 'bot/golem is moving as an extension(at a remove) of the creator's invested lifeforce.

[Stone Gargoyle]

The problem is that I am working without any Rifts books and my access to my other books is somewhat limited.
I had thought of using an electromagnetic turbine engine to harness the magical energy and serve as a power source for the bot. The sensors to locate PPE energy and ley lines would allow the robot to seek out sources to replenish power as well as for using in spells. I was wondering about the SNARLS system as a means of creating my own system for sensing PPE and supernatural creatures. There would be a PPE battery for the spells, but not sure if they would tie into the power source for the robot or be separate. I would use the TW rules if I had access to my Rifts Book of magic at the moment, as I think TW device creation might be covered in there, but not sure. Any advice is welcome on the subject.

[taalismn]

The problem is that I am working without any Rifts books and my access to my other books is somewhat limited.
I had thought of using an electromagnetic turbine engine to harness the magical energy and serve as a power source for the bot. The sensors to locate PPE energy and ley lines would allow the robot to seek out sources to replenish power as well as for using in spells. I was wondering about the SNARLS system as a means of creating my own system for sensing PPE and supernatural creatures. There would be a PPE battery for the spells, but not sure if they would tie into the power source for the robot or be separate. I would use the TW rules if I had access to my Rifts Book of magic at the moment, as I think TW device creation might be covered in there, but not sure. Any advice is welcome on the subject.

Personally I'd go with the dual PPE battery and conventional power system; it allows you leeway(at added expense) when fuel/PPE is low, and also gives you a fallback if you're attacked by some means that neutralizes/drains one of them.

Judging from the Rifts Sourcebook One, you CAN build robots with PPE/Technowizardry powerplants(they're rather expensive) that have set powerlifes(in years). PPE batteries WOULD be cheaper, but require more frequent charge-ups.
Nothing is said of straightout robots being able to cast spells, though Transfered Intelligence bots with the souls of mages MIGHT be able to cast spells, but the real kicker is a lack of bodily PPE to draw upn. That's where PPE Batteries/amulets come in handy.

The general attitude seems to be a spell-casting 'bot has to be inhabited by some lifeform(Thoth has a number of magic-enhanced Dynabots that are essentially piloted as power armor by Zembhak slugs) or extensions of some alien intelligence(the Hollow Knights of New Camelot).

So, here's some ways to go about it.

*Transferred Intelligence---Somebody's gotta make a sacrifice

*Modified Golemancy---Update the spell, and it works as an extension of your soul(without the Familiar feedback)

*Biological Go-Between---Wire a living organism(like a mouse) between your magic apparatus and the 'bot's AI. The bot controls the animal and uses it as a living conduit for the magic, hopefully 'fooling' the magic into acting as if it were cast by a living mage. Be prepared to regularly feed the living fusebox, and also be prepared to answer questions from the ASPCA.

*Invite/Entrap an energy Entity(possessing, haunting, tectonic) and use it to power/drive your 'bot. Aliens Unlimited has a bunch of nasty tectonic-like entities who like taking over technology and using it to kill people, but there might be friendly ones out there you could invite with the prospect of a place to live, something interesting to do.

[SittingBull]

Are you talking like a borg using TW bionics or implants?

[Stone Gargoyle]

Are you talking like a borg using TW bionics or implants?

No, I am talking about making a robot with specialized parts to allow it to sense magic and use it to cast spells. If I wanted a bioniics character to cast magic, that's so much simpler to accomplish.

Personally I'd go with the dual PPE battery and conventional power system; it allows you leeway(at added expense) when fuel/PPE is low, and also gives you a fallback if you're attacked by some means that neutralizes/drains one of them.

Yes, that is sort of what I am thinking now. A purely PPE system would be vulnerable to spells which negate magic. I was thinking that the magic could be held in the electromagnetic pull of the engine, but it would be simpler to make the power supply separate and use a PPE battery system.

Judging from the Rifts Sourcebook One, you CAN build robots with PPE/Technowizardry powerplants(they're rather expensive) that have set powerlifes(in years). PPE batteries WOULD be cheaper, but require more frequent charge-ups.

I am actually trying to write this up for Heroes Unlimited but had to ask this question here to try and get something to compare what I create to. I have no idea what some of the ranges should be for the optics and sensors, or how much PPE a battery should hold. I do not have access to Rifts books with the exception of the Rifts Bionics Sourcebook and Rifts Book of Magic. Part of trying to create a PPE and ley line locator would be to allow the batteries to be recharged by the robot.

Nothing is said of straightout robots being able to cast spells, though Transfered Intelligence bots with the souls of mages MIGHT be able to cast spells, but the real kicker is a lack of bodily PPE to draw upon. That's where PPE Batteries/amulets come in handy.

Yes, that is why I want to use a PPE storage system of some kind for the robot, preferable PPE batteries. The idea is for it to be a robot, not an enchanted construct or transferred intelligence. The AI itself would have to somehow allow the robot to be programmed with the spells.

The general attitude seems to be a spell-casting 'bot has to be inhabited by some lifeform(Thoth has a number of magic-enhanced Dynabots that are essentially piloted as power armor by Zembhak slugs) or extensions of some alien intelligence(the Hollow Knights of New Camelot).

So, here's some ways to go about it.

*Transferred Intelligence---Somebody's gotta make a sacrifice

*Modified Golemancy---Update the spell, and it works as an extension of your soul(without the Familiar feedback)

*Biological Go-Between---Wire a living organism(like a mouse) between your magic apparatus and the 'bot's AI. The bot controls the animal and uses it as a living conduit for the magic, hopefully 'fooling' the magic into acting as if it were cast by a living mage. Be prepared to regularly feed the living fusebox, and also be prepared to answer questions from the ASPCA.

*Invite/Entrap an energy Entity(possessing, haunting, tectonic) and use it to power/drive your 'bot. Aliens Unlimited has a bunch of nasty tectonic-like entities who like taking over technology and using it to kill people, but there might be friendly ones out there you could invite with the prospect of a place to live, something interesting to do.

No way to just allow a robot to access the PPE and cast spells, though?

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

The SNARLS system is also detailed in the GM Guide if you have access to that.

[Stone Gargoyle]

The SNARLS system is also detailed in the GM Guide if you have access to that.

Which GM Guide? For Heroes Unlimited?

[ShadowLogan]

I am in the process of trying to figure out robotics which would allow a robot to use magic. In the process of trying to get information on sensory equipment to sense ley lines and sources of PPE, someone mentioned the SNARLS system from Rifts: Japan. I was wondering if someone could share the details with me so I don't have to try and find someone with a physical copy of the book that I can get the information from.

If the 'bot is a manned unit simply use TWdry to give it additional features (Rifts MB, RUE have rules, IIRC even the Rifts Book of Magic). It requires the pilot to pump the PPE in or to be charged on a Ley Line.

Now if the 'bot is to be controlled by an A.I program you could simply "install" magic artifacts that allow it to cast spells a given number of times per day (Palladium Fantasy 2E Main RPG has examples) for it to take advantage of. It might require fudging the activation rules a bit as IINM an AI might not be able to activate/utilize it normally.

Which GM Guide? For Heroes Unlimited?

Rifts.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I am in the process of trying to figure out robotics which would allow a robot to use magic. In the process of trying to get information on sensory equipment to sense ley lines and sources of PPE, someone mentioned the SNARLS system from Rifts: Japan. I was wondering if someone could share the details with me so I don't have to try and find someone with a physical copy of the book that I can get the information from.

If the 'bot is a manned unit simply use TWdry to give it additional features (Rifts MB, RUE have rules, IIRC even the Rifts Book of Magic). It requires the pilot to pump the PPE in or to be charged on a Ley Line.

That I could do, and that is the easy part. Enchanting a suit of power armor or a piloted robot was not the goal, though. The goal is to make a robot with advanced AI that can cast spells.

Now if the 'bot is to be controlled by an A.I program you could simply "install" magic artifacts that allow it to cast spells a given number of times per day (Palladium Fantasy 2E Main RPG has examples) for it to take advantage of. It might require fudging the activation rules a bit as IINM an AI might not be able to activate/utilize it normally.

That might be my only option unless I ignore all the rules telling me I can't do it and just create a magic type AI with the ability to use spells.

Which GM Guide? For Heroes Unlimited?

Rifts.

That's what I figured. Problem is I only have a limited number of Rifts books and that isn't one of them.

[Slight001]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

[Stone Gargoyle]

For Rifts, I have the Rifts Megaverse Builder, Rifts Book of Magic, and the Rifts Bionic Sourcebook. Most of my books are for SDC settings. I have Beyond the Supernatural, a bunch of Heroes Unlimited books (including all core rulebook for 2nd Edition, the GM Guide, the Powers Unlimited books, Mutant Underground, Gramercy Island and Century Station), and Ninjas and Superspies and Mystic China. I have the Palladium Book of Contemporary Weapons and a bunch of Palladium Fantasy books as well, which includes the first Mysteries of Magic book. Mind you most of my books are in storage, so if you tell me to use the Rifts Book of Magic, for instance, I would have to go retrieve it from storage. I am currently carrying in my backpack the Beyond the Supernatural book and the Rifts Bionic Sourcebook, which i had thought might be handy when I started thinking about this project but so far have not been that useful.

[Stone Gargoyle]

SNARLS wouldn't really help you; it is really just a bunch of regular technological sensors plus the ability to detect a concentration of 80+PPE or higher in a person. Now on Rifts, that would probably also allow you to see a ley line (but then you often don't need ANY help to see a ley line), but I don't know about Heroes Unlimited. Also, the thing only has a range of 200 feet.

Then that really would not help. I had thought about giving the sensors a range of 600 feet and they would possibly be able to see all sources of PPE, kind of like a sort of magic sensor/optics system.

[eliakon]

As written, magic is the exclusive province of the living. That said if your a GM, you can change that, of course there is nothing in the canon that will help at this time, since as of right now you have to be (at least formerly) living.

[Stone Gargoyle]

As written, magic is the exclusive province of the living. That said if your a GM, you can change that, of course there is nothing in the canon that will help at this time, since as of right now you have to be (at least formerly) living.

Yeah, kind of got that impression. The thing is, though, that my players like the idea and I am determined to write up something now regardless if it is within canon guidelines. I had hoped to post it on the boards somewhere for others to use also.

[Nightmask]

As written, magic is the exclusive province of the living. That said if your a GM, you can change that, of course there is nothing in the canon that will help at this time, since as of right now you have to be (at least formerly) living.

Yeah, kind of got that impression. The thing is, though, that my players like the idea and I am determined to write up something now regardless if it is within canon guidelines. I had hoped to post it on the boards somewhere for others to use also.

Have to be a Techno-Wizard construct, and quite expensive from little I know of the Ultimate Edition reworking of Techno-Wizard construction. Best of luck with that though!

[Stone Gargoyle]

As written, magic is the exclusive province of the living. That said if your a GM, you can change that, of course there is nothing in the canon that will help at this time, since as of right now you have to be (at least formerly) living.

Yeah, kind of got that impression. The thing is, though, that my players like the idea and I am determined to write up something now regardless if it is within canon guidelines. I had hoped to post it on the boards somewhere for others to use also.

Have to be a Techno-Wizard construct, and quite expensive from little I know of the Ultimate Edition reworking of Techno-Wizard construction. Best of luck with that though!

Well, since it is actually for Heroes Unlimited, I can do it using TW rules or not. The optics and sensors and PPE battery ideas just need to be written up. The idea is for it to be something that is common for a given setting, not something that is a rare one-of-a-kind deal. I will be looking at how it would be done using Techno-Wizard rules as a general guideline, though.

[Nightmask]

As written, magic is the exclusive province of the living. That said if your a GM, you can change that, of course there is nothing in the canon that will help at this time, since as of right now you have to be (at least formerly) living.

Yeah, kind of got that impression. The thing is, though, that my players like the idea and I am determined to write up something now regardless if it is within canon guidelines. I had hoped to post it on the boards somewhere for others to use also.

Have to be a Techno-Wizard construct, and quite expensive from little I know of the Ultimate Edition reworking of Techno-Wizard construction. Best of luck with that though!

Well, since it is actually for Heroes Unlimited, I can do it using TW rules or not. The optics and sensors and PPE battery ideas just need to be written up. The idea is for it to be something that is common for a given setting, not something that is a rare one-of-a-kind deal. I will be looking at how it would be done using Techno-Wizard rules as a general guideline, though.

However you slice it since you're talking machines that cast/work magic they're techno-wizardry products since they combine technology and magic. There aren't any rules in HU or Rifts for robot spellcasters, you have to make something up and the closest you can find guidelines for it is the Techno-wizard construction rules.

[SittingBull]

*Invite/Entrap an energy Entity(possessing, haunting, tectonic) and use it to power/drive your 'bot. Aliens Unlimited has a bunch of nasty tectonic-like entities who like taking over technology and using it to kill people, but there might be friendly ones out there you could invite with the prospect of a place to live, something interesting to do.[/quote]


Like the entities in the glitter mounts. They do it happily which would make it much smoother process I'm sure.

[Stone Gargoyle]

However you slice it since you're talking machines that cast/work magic they're techno-wizardry products since they combine technology and magic. There aren't any rules in HU or Rifts for robot spellcasters, you have to make something up and the closest you can find guidelines for it is the Techno-wizard construction rules.

True, which is why I will definitely look at the TW construction rules. I will still need to design the specifics for the sensors and such regardless.

[Slight001]

As written, magic is the exclusive province of the living. That said if your a GM, you can change that, of course there is nothing in the canon that will help at this time, since as of right now you have to be (at least formerly) living.

Yeah, kind of got that impression. The thing is, though, that my players like the idea and I am determined to write up something now regardless if it is within canon guidelines. I had hoped to post it on the boards somewhere for others to use also.

Have to be a Techno-Wizard construct, and quite expensive from little I know of the Ultimate Edition reworking of Techno-Wizard construction. Best of luck with that though!

Well, since it is actually for Heroes Unlimited, I can do it using TW rules or not. The optics and sensors and PPE battery ideas just need to be written up. The idea is for it to be something that is common for a given setting, not something that is a rare one-of-a-kind deal. I will be looking at how it would be done using Techno-Wizard rules as a general guideline, though.

TW construction essentially 'traps' a spell inside a piece of technology. I had a normal character with no psionics or magic that was equipped with a bionicly enhanced exoskeleton with a variety of TW systems built into it that could be changed out via modular systems. The point of this is that the exoskeleton's TW features were controlled by a cyber-jack at the base of my character's skull that was linked into a TW enhanced computer that ultimately was in control of the systems, my character was nothing more then a biological AI controlling the exoskeleton.

[wyrmraker]

Or you could craft a robot with AI, and utelizing a cross between the rules for TW Bionics and the PPE-Eclips from Stormspire weapons. That would give you a robot that could use spells at the flick of a switch. Make them micro-switches, and purely internal.

[Daniel Stoker]

Or cheat and use the Alien Artificial Life Form from the Heroes Unlimited Aliens category.


Daniel Stoker

[taalismn]

Alien construction AI and/or a AI system that's been soaking in a PPE-rich environment for a long time...remember, in Rifts, ARCHIE-3 has acquired psychic powers because his advanced neural architecture's been active in Rifts Earth's magic-soaked time/space for over a century. That means, potentially, he could learn magic/use TW devices, except that the whole thing with the Mechanoids has, for the time being, soured him on investigating the personal use of magic.

[Subjugator]

Don't transferred intelligences keep their PPE?

[Blue_Lion]

I am in the process of trying to figure out robotics which would allow a robot to use magic. In the process of trying to get information on sensory equipment to sense ley lines and sources of PPE, someone mentioned the SNARLS system from Rifts: Japan. I was wondering if someone could share the details with me so I don't have to try and find someone with a physical copy of the book that I can get the information from.

Well the easest way to go whould be TW.
A robot is scinces golem.
A mage can tranfer himself into a golem. See SOT 6 for an example.
So A tw could transfer himself into his TW golem (TW robot) but whould likely need a PPE batery or powersorce to cast spells.
Now that said this whould be rare and hard to do.
Note this whould require a Spell of legend.

[Blue_Lion]

Don't transferred intelligences keep their PPE?

A transfered intelgence made by pure thech such as archie 3 no.
There is a way for mages to transfer into golems. But that is pure magic.

[Mack]

In Sourcebook 1 (Revised) the Robot OCC rules have a TW construction option. Just add a TW PPE battery and have fun.

[taalismn]

In Sourcebook 1 (Revised) the Robot OCC rules have a TW construction option. Just add a TW PPE battery and have fun.

That's motive power, though, not spellcasting. Though having a PPE battery backup or actual PPE generator would likely make it easier and cheaper to add TW features(if GMing, I'd discount the expense of TW add-ons in such a case).

[Stone Gargoyle]

Or you could craft a robot with AI, and utelizing a cross between the rules for TW Bionics and the PPE-Eclips from Stormspire weapons. That would give you a robot that could use spells at the flick of a switch. Make them micro-switches, and purely internal.

Are the TW bioics listed in the Rifts Book of Magic or elsewhere? Remember, I am working with limited access to books.

having a PPE battery backup or actual PPE generator would likely make it easier and cheaper to add TW features(if GMing, I'd discount the expense of TW add-ons in such a case).

I plan on going with a PPE battery, as I mentioned before. I plan on halving the construction cost, but there is also the fact that if using magic the character will not need extra weapons so I won't be adding anything other than the parts to use magic.

Alien construction AI and/or a AI system that's been soaking in a PPE-rich environment for a long time...remember, in Rifts, ARCHIE-3 has acquired psychic powers because his advanced neural architecture's been active in Rifts Earth's magic-soaked time/space for over a century. That means, potentially, he could learn magic/use TW devices, except that the whole thing with the Mechanoids has, for the time being, soured him on investigating the personal use of magic.

The setting I have in mind is such a PPE-rich environment, which is how I am justifying robots having magic.

Or cheat and use the Alien Artificial Life Form from the Heroes Unlimited Aliens category.

That would be one option, but not one within the guidelines I had initially set for the project.

[Stone Gargoyle]

I have asked Nimmy to move this thread to the Guild of Magic & Psionics forum, where it might be more appropriate. Thanks everyone for your help and advice thus far.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Right now, the plan is to have my roommate get my copy of the Rifts Book of Magic out of the storage locker we share. TW construction rules are in there, no?

[eliakon]

Right now, the plan is to have my roommate get my copy of the Rifts Book of Magic out of the storage locker we share. TW construction rules are in there, no?

Unfortunatly that is a No, the rules are in RUE.

[Killer Cyborg]

Don't transferred intelligences keep their PPE?

Looking at SB1r:
-"the robot will have a strange but living aura, will register as a psychic presence, can be affected by psionic attacks, and will have a small amount of detectable PPE (though never enough to be a spell caster).
-p. 18 If by chance, the character was once a Practitioner of Magic, he loses ALL magic abilities, PPE is reduced to 20% and does NOT increase with experience. ONly retains all skills related to that OCC, but not any special magic powers or abilities.

[Blue_Lion]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

Because magic is based off of PPE witch is life force. It is not BS rules but that even an AI does not have the living cells to produce the PPE. Now you could rule that some advance civiazation has created tech that bridges the gap but that is not stadrd. Normal machines are not sources of PPE.

[Killer Cyborg]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

Because magic is based off of PPE witch is life force. It is not BS rules but that even an AI does not have the living cells to produce the PPE. Now you could rule that some advance civiazation has created tech that bridges the gap but that is not stadrd. Normal machines are not sources of PPE.

Furthermore, magic hinges on belief.
Robots can't believe anything, not in the sense that is meant in this context.

[drewkitty ~..~]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

Because magic is based off of PPE witch is life force. It is not BS rules but that even an AI does not have the living cells to produce the PPE. Now you could rule that some advance civilization has created tech that bridges the gap but that is not standard. Normal machines are not sources of PPE.

Furthermore, magic hinges on belief.
Robots can't believe anything, not in the sense that is meant in this context.

Androids are not "living". So they can not on their own make magic nor have psionics. These are the reasons that machine people can do the same.
*yawn*
Its been a long time since the discussions about the machine people when PW came out since I have seen this topic come up again.

"on their own": To use HU things as an example, an android could be a enchanted weapon or object or mystically bestowed abilities, because the powers come from outside themselves. But not the mystic study.

[Killer Cyborg]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

Because magic is based off of PPE witch is life force. It is not BS rules but that even an AI does not have the living cells to produce the PPE. Now you could rule that some advance civilization has created tech that bridges the gap but that is not standard. Normal machines are not sources of PPE.

Furthermore, magic hinges on belief.
Robots can't believe anything, not in the sense that is meant in this context.

Androids are not "living". So they can not on their own make magic nor have psionics. These are the reasons that machine people can do the same.
*yawn*
Its been a long time since the discussions about the machine people when PW came out since I have seen this topic come up again.

"on their own": To use HU things as an example, an android could be a enchanted weapon or object or mystically bestowed abilities, because the powers come from outside themselves. But not the mystic study.

Correct.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Right now, the plan is to have my roommate get my copy of the Rifts Book of Magic out of the storage locker we share. TW construction rules are in there, no?

Unfortunately that is a No, the rules are in RUE.

Well, I appear to be at an impasse, so I won't be able to do anything with this idea for the foreseeable future, unless someone was to send me the TW construction rules by way of PM or email.

Androids are not "living". So they can not on their own make magic nor have psionics. These are the reasons that machine people can do the same.
*yawn*
Its been a long time since the discussions about the machine people when PW came out since I have seen this topic come up again.

"on their own": To use HU things as an example, an android could be a enchanted weapon or object or mystically bestowed abilities, because the powers come from outside themselves. But not the mystic study.

It would have been done as a house rules thing, so it is not important to me whether or not the canon rules would allow it or not. But thank you for your opinion.

[Gryphon Chick]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

Because magic is based off of PPE witch is life force. It is not BS rules but that even an AI does not have the living cells to produce the PPE. Now you could rule that some advance civilization has created tech that bridges the gap but that is not standard. Normal machines are not sources of PPE.

Furthermore, magic hinges on belief.
Robots can't believe anything, not in the sense that is meant in this context.

Androids are not "living". So they can not on their own make magic nor have psionics. These are the reasons that machine people can do the same.
*yawn*
Its been a long time since the discussions about the machine people when PW came out since I have seen this topic come up again.

"on their own": To use HU things as an example, an android could be a enchanted weapon or object or mystically bestowed abilities, because the powers come from outside themselves. But not the mystic study.

Saying that robots cannot be considered living things borders on the idiotic and shows no basic understanding of the basics of living energy in the first place. There is a metaphysical principle that everything contains some living energy, whether it be the rocks and trees or the lightning in the atmosphere. Robots being electrical would have a kind of living energy all their own. Quite simply, the way it is written is wrong anyway, so what you are doing is furthering an imperfect ruleset.

[Killer Cyborg]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

Because magic is based off of PPE witch is life force. It is not BS rules but that even an AI does not have the living cells to produce the PPE. Now you could rule that some advance civilization has created tech that bridges the gap but that is not standard. Normal machines are not sources of PPE.

Furthermore, magic hinges on belief.
Robots can't believe anything, not in the sense that is meant in this context.

Androids are not "living". So they can not on their own make magic nor have psionics. These are the reasons that machine people can do the same.
*yawn*
Its been a long time since the discussions about the machine people when PW came out since I have seen this topic come up again.

"on their own": To use HU things as an example, an android could be a enchanted weapon or object or mystically bestowed abilities, because the powers come from outside themselves. But not the mystic study.

Saying that robots cannot be considered living things borders on the idiotic and shows no basic understanding of the basics of living energy in the first place. There is a metaphysical principle that everything contains some living energy, whether it be the rocks and trees or the lightning in the atmosphere. Robots being electrical would have a kind of living energy all their own. Quite simply, the way it is written is wrong anyway, so what you are doing is furthering an imperfect ruleset.

There are all kinds of unusual new-age or philosophical beliefs, but they only affect the game world if the rulebooks specify.

[Stone Gargoyle]

There are all kinds of unusual new-age or philosophical beliefs, but they only affect the game world if the rulebooks specify.

Regardless of that, I never asked IF the books permitted creating robot spellcasters, only if people had suggestions on HOW to do it. Your responses do not pertain to the question asked.

[Killer Cyborg]

There are all kinds of unusual new-age or philosophical beliefs, but they only affect the game world if the rulebooks specify.

Regardless of that, I never asked IF the books permitted creating robot spellcasters, only if people had suggestions on HOW to do it. Your responses do not pertain to the question asked.

"How to do it" includes some level of how NOT to do it.
Unless you don't care about the game rules, in which case you don't need RUE in order to brush up on the TW Item Creation rules- you can just make stuff up.
But since you seem interested in doing this within the rules if possible, it seems to me that knowing the rules is pertinent to the question asked.
Unless you're spamming up your own thread when YOU've asked about what the rules are.


If you want to chuck the rules out the window, then just roll up a Line Walker OCC as normal, but give him the physical body created by the Robot Creation tables.
Seems simple enough.

And the part you quoted there wasn't directed at you in any case; it was pointing out how random another poster's comment was.
If I'm wrong, and you actually wanted discussions/arguments about various metaphysical definitions of "life," then I apologize and will happily adjust to that new topic.
Just let me know.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Androids are not "living". So they can not on their own make magic nor have psionics. These are the reasons that machine people can do the same.
*yawn*
Its been a long time since the discussions about the machine people when PW came out since I have seen this topic come up again.

"on their own": To use HU things as an example, an android could be a enchanted weapon or object or mystically bestowed abilities, because the powers come from outside themselves. But not the mystic study.

Saying that robots cannot be considered living things borders on the idiotic and shows no basic understanding of the basics of living energy in the first place. There is a metaphysical principle that everything contains some living energy, whether it be the rocks and trees or the lightning in the atmosphere. Robots being electrical would have a kind of living energy all their own. Quite simply, the way it is written is wrong anyway, so what you are doing is furthering an imperfect ruleset.

Only those things that are alive contain "the breath of life".
Rocks and metals have no "breath of life".
"breath of life" is essential to be able to create metaphysical effects.

However, I was going to point out to you I was being very specific in my wording, when I used the word "Android".
I am asking you ALL *looks about at everyone including SG* to do the same. Cause I don't think you mean 'the robots down at the car plant' but the words you are using includes them.

And as I implied before, this is already a long settled issue with in the game.
-------------
Yes, I know that in SW there are some droids that have become old enophe and have developed a personality that allow them to use "The Force". But that is in the PB game system.
------------
Yes, I know about how in N&S and MC there is Chi which is in everything...but even there there if there is any sentience in the chi it means it is a chi entity not bound to anything physical.

[Long Shadow]

With respect to the OP, you can use an organic body (flesh or plant) and imbed a living mind via the Friend in the Head spell. The mind should be sufficient for belief and learning, essential for spell casting. An organic body would reduce magic interference and then all you need is a sorce of PPE. at least that is how I would do it.

[Nightmask]

First up what Rift's books do you have?

Second I would just ignore the BS rules that only allow magic to be used by 'living' beings. I don't see any reason why an AI with a spell database an the proper P.P.E. storage/projection equipment couldn't exist.

Because magic is based off of PPE witch is life force. It is not BS rules but that even an AI does not have the living cells to produce the PPE. Now you could rule that some advance civilization has created tech that bridges the gap but that is not standard. Normal machines are not sources of PPE.

Furthermore, magic hinges on belief.
Robots can't believe anything, not in the sense that is meant in this context.

Androids are not "living". So they can not on their own make magic nor have psionics. These are the reasons that machine people can do the same.
*yawn*
Its been a long time since the discussions about the machine people when PW came out since I have seen this topic come up again.

"on their own": To use HU things as an example, an android could be a enchanted weapon or object or mystically bestowed abilities, because the powers come from outside themselves. But not the mystic study.

Saying that robots cannot be considered living things borders on the idiotic and shows no basic understanding of the basics of living energy in the first place. There is a metaphysical principle that everything contains some living energy, whether it be the rocks and trees or the lightning in the atmosphere. Robots being electrical would have a kind of living energy all their own. Quite simply, the way it is written is wrong anyway, so what you are doing is furthering an imperfect ruleset.

So robot spellcasters are chi mages then, since chi is a fundamental energy that runs through everything but naturally higher (normally) in living beings. Since chi is unaffected by bionic conversion a robot mage would be a chi mage since chi doesn't care if you're a 'dead' machine or a living person.

[eliakon]

Or a robot mage would be....wait for it.....Something that a Gm introduces for his campain. Since it enhances that campain rule zero is in effect. Since Rule Zero has been invoked we don't have to follow the rules that make it impossible....and instead now concentrate on figuring out how to make it work with in the rules IF THE RULES WORKED THAT WAY. So, back to the topic of how to impliment a robot mage?

I would suggest a magic co-processor (spell checking ) that is required to run the individual spell programs. I would assume that writing the programs requires knowledge of the spells talisman, and scroll, as well as computer programing. I would require suitibly esoteric ingrediants of course.
for sensors, I would go with either 'kirlean cameras' or perhaps 'orgon sensors' both of which are psudeo-scientific enough. I would require lots of silver wires, and inscribed little magic symbols.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think that Drew and I were hitting on the best official way to do things, or close to official: make the robot a magic object.
I'll see what I can come up with.

[Stone Gargoyle]

Or a robot mage would be....wait for it.....Something that a Gm introduces for his campain. Since it enhances that campain rule zero is in effect. Since Rule Zero has been invoked we don't have to follow the rules that make it impossible....and instead now concentrate on figuring out how to make it work with in the rules IF THE RULES WORKED THAT WAY.

We are indeed implementing Rule Zero here. This idea is for a specific campaign, possibly to be compatible with a steampunk setting where Androids (Yes, Drewkitty~..~, you are correct in the phrasing of it) or ultra-light robots with a minimal amount of allowable upgrades aside from the magic options would be allowed. I am NOT trying to do munchkin robots with full out battle gear AND magic. I am trying to create mages who have the added detail that they are robotic in nature.

So, back to the topic of how to impliment a robot mage?

I would suggest a magic co-processor (spell checking ) that is required to run the individual spell programs. I would assume that writing the programs requires knowledge of the spells talisman, and scroll, as well as computer programing. I would require suitibly esoteric ingrediants of course.
for sensors, I would go with either 'kirlean cameras' or perhaps 'orgon sensors' both of which are psudeo-scientific enough. I would require lots of silver wires, and inscribed little magic symbols.

Yes, good, this is the kind of feedback I have been looking for. Good, solid ideas I can do something with.

I think that Drew and I were hitting on the best official way to do things, or close to official: make the robot a magic object.
I'll see what I can come up with.

I can see that as being an option, but it falls outside the original project parameters. In this thread it has been pointed out that it would be easier to do a mage in power armor or acting as a transferred intelligence for the droid, or even enchanting the robot as an enchanted object or golem, and those might be options should the original parameters of the project not work.

So robot spellcasters are chi mages then, since chi is a fundamental energy that runs through everything but naturally higher (normally) in living beings. Since chi is unaffected by bionic conversion a robot mage would be a chi mage since chi doesn't care if you're a 'dead' machine or a living person.

I had not even considered that, but that is a good option as well.

With respect to the OP, you can use an organic body (flesh or plant) and imbed a living mind via the Friend in the Head spell. The mind should be sufficient for belief and learning, essential for spell casting. An organic body would reduce magic interference and then all you need is a sorce of PPE. at least that is how I would do it.

Again, not in the original parameters, but a possible option. Creating a cyborg mage could be an option as well.

Only those things that are alive contain "the breath of life".
Rocks and metals have no "breath of life".
"breath of life" is essential to be able to create metaphysical effects.

Molecules have vibration, and in my game setting that I am working up, it is that that determines life status, not "breath of life" as in canon sources.

However, I was going to point out to you I was being very specific in my wording, when I used the word "Android".
I am asking you ALL *looks about at everyone including SG* to do the same. Cause I don't think you mean 'the robots down at the car plant' but the words you are using includes them.

For all intents and purposes, we are discussing androids, yes.

And as I implied before, this is already a long settled issue with in the game.

I am not necessarily concerned with what goes in the canon rules so much as figuring out how to make it work in my game settings/campaigns.

Yes, I know that in SW there are some droids that have become old enophe and have developed a personality that allow them to use "The Force". But that is in the PB game system.

I was not inspired by that, but thanks for sharing.

Yes, I know about how in N&S and MC there is Chi which is in everything...but even there there if there is any sentience in the chi it means it is a chi entity not bound to anything physical.

I am not necessarily doing anything with chi per se, unless you think that would serve as a better option.

[lol the above post appeared as I was composing/submitting this post, so this MUST be the way to do it! )

I am curious to know more about your Robot Spellcasters. What are your ideas on how you are planning on using them in your game?
Are you looking for stats? MDC by location and how many spells they get/of what sorts? Let me know. In the meantime:

Robot Spellcaster Creator v1.0

Step 1) Answer these questions to create (a) Robot Spellcaster(s) [RSC]

1) Is the RSC a Player Character, NPC or Enemy?

2) What level of experience is the RSC (level of power)

3) What is the size or the RSC (cat sized, man sized, mecha sized, etc)?

4) Is the RSC mass produced or one of a kind or able to replicate?

5) Does the RSC have SDC or MDC?

Step 2) STATS

-Assign a number or roll 3d6 for: IQ, ME, MA, PE (as needed for magic, treat as supernatural if RSC can get tired).
-Now use the RIFTS Source book 1(MDC)/Heroes Unlimited(SDC) Robot Creation rules for stats physical stats (PS, PP, Spd, PB?)
-Use the same Robot Creation rules or your own preference to determine SDC/MDC, shape, abilities/features, etc.

Step 3): SPELLCASTING

-The Robot Spellcaster has the same powers/PPE as the RIFTS Linewalker OCC or the Heroes Unlimited Spellcaster/magic user.
-Determine PPE, psionics, ISP, starting/known spells, skills as per the OCC chosen (Most normal/non magic related skills @ 98% or whatever robots have skills at)
-Use the appropriate XP tables
-Spellcasting and known spells is per OCC and gained as normal or perhaps can record/learn any magic the RSC sees/hears performed.
-PPE regeneration rate is the GMs choice or use OCC listed rate (recharge time).
--The RSC (if EVIL) could kill living things to gain PPE/recharge PPE stores (PPE doubles at time of death)

OPTIONAL:
-The RSC can 'heal' itself via magic spells
-The RSC must maintain at least 1 PPE in reserve point or "Blacks out" (powers down) until it can be regenerated.
-The RSC is powered by the elevated AMBIENT magics of RIFTS Earth and has no power in a low PPE world (must use rituals from the living (GOOD)/kills the living(EVIL) to recharge).

There you go. Hope it helps. -Caldor

I am designing them for use within Heroes Unlimited, so they will be SDC-based creations. Right now, they are being designed as NPCs. Most will be standard man-sized, and they will not be allowed the upgrade to a reinforced frame nor increase their AR and SDC beyond certain limits.

[Gryphon Chick]

Saying that robots cannot be considered living things borders on the idiotic and shows no basic understanding of the basics of living energy in the first place. There is a metaphysical principle that everything contains some living energy, whether it be the rocks and trees or the lightning in the atmosphere. Robots being electrical would have a kind of living energy all their own. Quite simply, the way it is written is wrong anyway, so what you are doing is furthering an imperfect ruleset.

There are all kinds of unusual new-age or philosophical beliefs, but they only affect the game world if the rulebooks specify.

I think the OP is looking for alternatives to the canon rules, so I was just trying to supply an alternative outlook and basis for changing the rules in a setting to fit an alternative reasoning of how magic works. Fundamentally, magic is a sympathetic reaction to words and gestures and symbols. Whether or not a machine has life is a matter of philosophy, yes, but the answer to that philosophical question is what determines what triggers the sympathetic reaction. People have chemical reactions which spark energy which make them move, androids have electrical energy to make them move. Who is to say which is more alive?