jaymz wrote:I don't recall saying TW wasn't a main book class
No, you said:
jaymz wrote:restricting godlings to what amounts to main book classes only (warlock being in cb1) is ridiculous
But that wasn't what I was talking about doing. I was talking about restricting it to the classes which were mentioned, and excluding classes not mentioned, particularly classes which had already been published by the time of CB2 which the author was aware of and chose to leave out. Such as the Techno-Wizard, the Temporal Wizard, not to mention the Stone Master, various England druids, african shamans, Diabolist and Summoner.
jaymz wrote:nor did I say ONLY main book classes but most were.
True, 3 out of 5.
jaymz wrote:restricting godlings, or lesser gods, to NOT being able to do other magic is ludicrous.
No, it isn't, because godling powers are about inherent abilities, and while some classes have more 'inherent' magical skills, others do not.
There is nothing restricting a Godling from choosing to halt advancing their natural RCC abilities and change the the OCC of Techno-Wizard, Temporal Wizard, or any of the others I mentioned which were left out, of course. But these are OCCs clearly omitted as options for Godlings or Demigods to select to represent intuitive magical abilities.
There is more of an argument to be made for making it optional for them toe select magical OCCS published AFTER pantheons of the megaverse, though, since they were not omitted and did not exist at the time. The Ocean Wizard from Rifts Underseas, for example (which I don't think had been published yet) would make a good option for a sibling of Triton's.
jaymz wrote:Increasing the available classes they may choose is hardly a game breaker.
The objection wasn't about game-breaking, but rather ignoring a clear non-inclusion of already-published OCCs (we know some OCCs were on CJ's mind, since he gave some of them to the gods, yet didn't include them as Godling power options). Simply including them as power options when they all have extensive cultures behind them cheapens the OCC and ignores what the OCC is.
Techno-wizardry is new, and it involves learning skills as well as magic, it's not something gods would be inherently born with because you need to actually understand machines to even do it. It was also invented very recently.
Temporal wizardry is (or was) supposed to be a very exclusive and secretive form of high-level magic hoarded away by raiders. About the only demigod I could see having this would be a son of Zurvan. Even then, how spell selection would work is very strange. Rather than the default spells of various levels OCCs usually get (and the ability to purchase spells) the Godling version just gives all of a given level. Meaning that even a level 6 godling or demigod who had selected 'Temporal Wizard' wouldn't even have any temporal spells, since as best I recall, the lowest level temporal spells is 7th (could be wrong bout that, but it's not low).
jaymz wrote:as for Alistair you are welcome to explain how he manages to get the PPE he has since I cannot find how beyond "handwavium supernatural magic stuff" not to mention I wasn't discussing NPCs in Rifts alone but across the megaverse.
I was confused about that for a long time as well (not to mention Inglix the Mad's PPE) but the rules for this were eventually clarified in the "Dimensional Outbreak" sourcebook, Dunscon clearly must know the 'Heart of Darkness' spell and have used it a lot to get that base. Considering that he sacrifices beings on a weekly basis to stay alive, it's not hard to imagine him throwing in some extra to get a permanent PPE boost.
jaymz wrote:I do not recall the OP asking for something that was book legal just something that would make a great super villain.
True but if you want to get overly technical:
supreme-evil wrote:What are your ideas for how the Supreme Evil Villain God would be like?
They asked for a god, and you gave them a godling
It's generally implied that when someone asks for characters they're expected to be book-legal unless otherwise indicated. Not that gods actually have any guideilnes on how to create them, of course... we have AI guidelines and they work close enough though.
jaymz wrote:As GM he (or any GM for that matter) can bend or outright break any rules they wish to get the villains they want. It's called GM's caveat.
Yup, we all know that. It's still worth mentioning when you're changing rules to prevent a false sense of them.
say652 wrote:i allow godlings but limit the magic selectionsto any warlock,shifter,mystic or leyline walker. you know like its writteninthe class description. now the demigod occ i would allow to pic one of the newer style magic classes such as technowizard,necromancer,temporal wizard or temporal warrior,and phase mystic(not a magic class persay but still deserves an honorable mention). now with one of these classes it could be combined with any of the magic classes available in the godling rcc description. so a ninth level phase mystic/ earth&fire warlock who transfers his intellect into a BattleRam. a spell casting psychic giant robot!!!!!! i shall call him Doug of Asgard lol
This works.
Eclipse wrote:It's not unreasonable as a GM to allow the list of demigod/godling mage types to be extended, since that book came out before many of these other magic OCCs did.
True, and I completely agree with this for things published AFTER pantheons, like ocean wizards or living fire wizards. I was objecting specifically to the Techno and Temporal wizards, which had been published prior to Pantheons and even included in Pantheons as OCCs held by several gods, yet excluded from the list of options.
Eclipse wrote:I'm sure some npcs break that rule too.
You're aware of a canonical godling or demigod who has, as a natural power (rather than OCC) a magical class besides the options listed? Where? There aren't really that many Demigods and Godlings in Rifts books outside of Pantheons. Off-hand I'm only recalling the Demigod in Splynn Dimensional Market...
Eclipse wrote:Ultimately veto power comes down to the individual GM and whether he suspects someone trying to min-max too much.
Everyone knows that, you don't need to reiterate, it doesn't matter when people bring up rules. This is how things generally occur, it gives a sense of order.
