eliakon wrote:Well, back to the topic.....would anyone else find it to out there to allow the class to have H2H basic as a skill? Its not like the class is already brimming with skills anyway, and one more doesnt seem to be a huge difference.
The Wu Shih is not a DMA so can not have more then one combat skill. And since the MAF is the basis of the char's interest in magic it can not be replaced. So the answer to your question is "No".
I am not talking about replacing the skill. I am talking about 1 MAF at level 3 AND 1 H2H skill (probably basic) at lv1
...snip
I answered this first.
If you want to have house rules for your game that is up to you.*shrugs*
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
eliakon wrote:Well, back to the topic.....would anyone else find it to out there to allow the class to have H2H basic as a skill? Its not like the class is already brimming with skills anyway, and one more doesnt seem to be a huge difference.
The Wu Shih is not a DMA so can not have more then one combat skill. And since the MAF is the basis of the char's interest in magic it can not be replaced. So the answer to your question is "No".
I am not talking about replacing the skill. I am talking about 1 MAF at level 3 AND 1 H2H skill (probably basic) at lv1
...snip
I answered this first.
If you want to have house rules for your game that is up to you.*shrugs*
Not really, no you havent. There is nothing in canon that prevents a person from having more than one hand to hand. Only the DMA (and the ancient master and....) can have two FULL MAFs that advance at once. When you get into 'previously was a martial artist and is frozen' thats in the 'class change, your hand to hand is frozen' territory. SO yah, its more of one old MAF that is frozen, and one CURRENT H2H (not a full MAF btw...there IS a difference) that is not frozen.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
When a char takes another combat skill the old one is replaced. This is the canon standard for outside the those exceptions that are specifically stated in the class text.
This is besides the point that I think it is stupid that the starting MAF is frozen @ 3rd level for Wu Shih.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:When a char takes another combat skill the old one is replaced. This is the canon standard for outside the those exceptions that are specifically stated in the class text.
This is besides the point that I think it is stupid that the starting MAF is frozen @ 3rd level for Wu Shih.
Really? you have a source for that? Because I thought the canon was 'your old skills were frozen yada yada yada' I would be very interested to read where you found that your old skills are replaced compleatly in all cases.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
eliakon wrote:Well, back to the topic.....would anyone else find it to out there to allow the class to have H2H basic as a skill? Its not like the class is already brimming with skills anyway, and one more doesnt seem to be a huge difference.
The Wu Shih is not a DMA so can not have more then one combat skill. And since the MAF is the basis of the char's interest in magic it can not be replaced. So the answer to your question is "No".
I am not talking about replacing the skill. I am talking about 1 MAF at level 3 AND 1 H2H skill (probably basic) at lv1
...snip
I answered this first.
If you want to have house rules for your game that is up to you.*shrugs*
Not really, no you havent. There is nothing in canon that prevents a person from having more than one hand to hand. Only the DMA (and the ancient master and....) can have two FULL MAFs that advance at once. When you get into 'previously was a martial artist and is frozen' thats in the 'class change, your hand to hand is frozen' territory. SO yah, its more of one old MAF that is frozen, and one CURRENT H2H (not a full MAF btw...there IS a difference) that is not frozen.
Those class change rules also had your old skills that were available to your new class to start advancing again once you were of higher level, provided you also had selected them for it. So at the least the Wu Shih ought to have the option of having selected their MA so that it would start advancing again once they were above 3rd level.
Of course the class doesn't make much sense in any case as written, it gives the impression that EVERY Wu Shih is the result of a Martial Artist of the right Martial Art just spontaneously getting this idea that 'oooo I could do magic!' and working out everything on their own. There are no Wu Shih that are just taught by another, they never seem to function like a normal class and as noted it's pitifully limited in skills for a class that ought to be well educated and knowledgeable.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
the FAQ somewhere says that.....I think someone else brought it up somewhere recently where it was. *shrugs* But it has been like that from years....a decade I think. ------------------ Because the Wu Shih the "old MAF" is a part of the class, so it is outside of the changing class text. It was also written before the current published changing class text was published. Which have only skills duplicated in the new class unfreezing when the char got to a level higher then the one they were at. ------------------ If you really want to, for versimultitiud, you could make up the class that the Wu Shih "retired from as if they changed from before they decided to take up magic. Then you'd have more skills to draw on...but only having them @ L3. ------------------ opinion: if the Wu Shih is a immortal type that has lived more then 100 years, then they could bounce between the two classes to gain EXP in ether, as the char phases of high activity cycles between the two sides of her training.
Part of the reason I like the Wu Shih is that they do not fit into the western mold of things. However, w/o the two minds Zenj. power casting in combat is a pain.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:the FAQ somewhere says that.....I think someone else brought it up somewhere recently where it was. *shrugs* But it has been like that from years....a decade I think. ------------------ Because the Wu Shih the "old MAF" is a part of the class, so it is outside of the changing class text. It was also written before the current published changing class text was published. Which have only skills duplicated in the new class unfreezing when the char got to a level higher then the one they were at. ------------------ If you really want to, for versimultitiud, you could make up the class that the Wu Shih "retired from as if they changed from before they decided to take up magic. Then you'd have more skills to draw on...but only having them @ L3. ------------------ opinion: if the Wu Shih is a immortal type that has lived more then 100 years, then they could bounce between the two classes to gain EXP in ether, as the char phases of high activity cycles between the two sides of her training.
Part of the reason I like the Wu Shih is that they do not fit into the western mold of things. However, w/o the two minds Zenj. power casting in combat is a pain.
So essentially your saying 'no its not canon' because of something some one may have said once in another post someplace else. This sounds like a 'house rule' that is being presented as canon, and I could have sworn that your tag said something about such. So....Other than a possible ruling that may or may not exist there is no reason why you cant add H2H basic to the class?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:the FAQ somewhere says that.....I think someone else brought it up somewhere recently where it was. *shrugs* But it has been like that from years....a decade I think. ------------------ Because the Wu Shih the "old MAF" is a part of the class, so it is outside of the changing class text. It was also written before the current published changing class text was published. Which have only skills duplicated in the new class unfreezing when the char got to a level higher then the one they were at. ------------------ If you really want to, for versimultitiud, you could make up the class that the Wu Shih "retired from as if they changed from before they decided to take up magic. Then you'd have more skills to draw on...but only having them @ L3. ------------------ opinion: if the Wu Shih is a immortal type that has lived more then 100 years, then they could bounce between the two classes to gain EXP in ether, as the char phases of high activity cycles between the two sides of her training.
Part of the reason I like the Wu Shih is that they do not fit into the western mold of things. However, w/o the two minds Zenj. power casting in combat is a pain.
So essentially your saying 'no its not canon' because of something some one may have said once in another post someplace else. This sounds like a 'house rule' that is being presented as canon, and I could have sworn that your tag said something about such. So....Other than a possible ruling that may or may not exist there is no reason why you cant add H2H basic to the class?
No, I'm said it's been Canon for over a decade.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
I think (going back on topic) that one really needs to drop that 'all Wu Shih are retired Martial Artists' from the class description, particularly as it seems to imply that they all just somehow spontaneously learn chi magic on their own. One can then consider their need of level 3 in one of a few limited Martial Arts as simply the minimum requirement to join the class just as you find IQ limits on high-tech sorts as an example. So either they realized upon reaching level 3 in the existing class that they were learning that MA in (most likely the Worldly Martial Artist) that there were even greater mysteries than the Chi Masteries they'd already started learning and sought out a master to teach them, a Wu Shih seeking promising students simply selected the character to invite into the mysteries of Chi Magic, or a Wu Shih directly taught someone the martial art and trained them up until they could become a 1st level Wu Shih.
The net result would probably be that as the Wu Shih advanced in levels their Martial Art would be 2 levels above their existing level, barring that as they 'caught up' as it were once they reached 4th level their martial art would advance to level 4 as well and continue as normal. That would reflect that they've gained sufficiently as a Wu Shih to return to learning and improving their Martial art like every other class in the multiverse (outside the Antiquarian, as it seems Mystic China has the infamy of probably having the most number of classes being locked in combat advancement of any book, and almost the entire Palladium game megaverse).
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:the FAQ somewhere says that.....I think someone else brought it up somewhere recently where it was. *shrugs* But it has been like that from years....a decade I think. ------------------ Because the Wu Shih the "old MAF" is a part of the class, so it is outside of the changing class text. It was also written before the current published changing class text was published. Which have only skills duplicated in the new class unfreezing when the char got to a level higher then the one they were at. ------------------ If you really want to, for versimultitiud, you could make up the class that the Wu Shih "retired from as if they changed from before they decided to take up magic. Then you'd have more skills to draw on...but only having them @ L3. ------------------ opinion: if the Wu Shih is a immortal type that has lived more then 100 years, then they could bounce between the two classes to gain EXP in ether, as the char phases of high activity cycles between the two sides of her training.
Part of the reason I like the Wu Shih is that they do not fit into the western mold of things. However, w/o the two minds Zenj. power casting in combat is a pain.
So essentially your saying 'no its not canon' because of something some one may have said once in another post someplace else. This sounds like a 'house rule' that is being presented as canon, and I could have sworn that your tag said something about such. So....Other than a possible ruling that may or may not exist there is no reason why you cant add H2H basic to the class?
No, I'm said it's been Canon for over a decade.
So whats the Canon SOURCE? IE where is there something that says "Thou shalt overwrite thy hand to hand skill if ever thou learnest a new one." Because with OUT that source I would presume you use the only rules that have ever been seen on the issue in any of the canon books (that would be the changing class rules...and all of them allow you to keep your old skill, frozen, and then get a new skill, OR unfreeze the old one at that same level) So just saying 'well its canon that you replace it, but that I dont know where the source is, or who said it. Seems to me at least a bit....off
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
To know something is true even though you have forgotten exactly where you learned that true item does not make that turn item, untrue. I said two posts ago that I don't remember exactly where it is. I did say it was probably mentioned in the FAQ.
It is also probably in one of the official Q&A articles in the Rifters.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:To know something is true even though you have forgotten exactly where you learned that true item does not make that turn item, untrue. I said two posts ago that I don't remember exactly where it is. I did say it was probably mentioned in the FAQ.
It is also probably in one of the official Q&A articles in the Rifters.
Well the FAQ is specifically labled as 'not canonical' (see Macks sticky about the subject) They are 'best guesses' and offered by staff. Do you have a CANON source for this, or is it just your interpretation of the noncanon FAQ that it should be so?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:To know something is true even though you have forgotten exactly where you learned that true item does not make that turn item, untrue. I said two posts ago that I don't remember exactly where it is. I did say it was probably mentioned in the FAQ.
It is also probably in one of the official Q&A articles in the Rifters.
Well the FAQ is specifically labled as 'not canonical' (see Macks sticky about the subject) They are 'best guesses' and offered by staff. Do you have a CANON source for this, or is it just your interpretation of the noncanon FAQ that it should be so?
Given one can be certain something is true only to end up being wrong does tend to make it a necessity when claiming something is true to be able to point to the actual material rather than 'just take my word for it' being good enough.
On the actual argued point though given we have several OCC that have multiple martial arts simultaneously clearly one art doesn't replace another if it's newer. If there was mention of a MA replacing an existing one it more likely dealt with upgrading a 'lesser' generic HtH with a newer one, such as a character that had HtH: Basic but after going up a few levels wanted to convert it to HtH: Expert. While they have different bonuses one is considered a superior form of the other, unlike say Tai-Chi vs Zanji, the two arts are quite distinct skills and learning Zanji isn't going to wipe your knowledge of Tai-Chi or vice versa.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
The official answer is in one of the Q&A's in a Rifter. And I am correct in both aspects of my earlier statement.
Go look for you own self.
Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:To know something is true even though you have forgotten exactly where you learned that true item does not make that turn item, untrue. I said two posts ago that I don't remember exactly where it is. I did say it was probably mentioned in the FAQ.
It is also probably in one of the official Q&A articles in the Rifters.
Well the FAQ is specifically labled as 'not canonical' (see Macks sticky about the subject) They are 'best guesses' and offered by staff. Do you have a CANON source for this, or is it just your interpretation of the noncanon FAQ that it should be so?
I'd be REALLY surprised if anyone officially stated that you forget any martial arts you know when you start studying another, particularly when there are multiple classes in the N&SS and Mystic China books that actually have two distinct Martial Arts (and 'well they learned them at the same time for why they could get away with it'' would be a VERY ridiculous effort to try and say that was okay but not someone having learned one but added another later on). If such a statement was made it wouldn't have been made within the context of the specialized MA from these settings and instead with regards to the four 'generic' HtH.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The official answer is in one of the Q&A's in a Rifter. And I am correct in both aspects of my earlier statement.
Go look for you own self.
Is it an OFFICIAL Q&A? or is it like rifter 25 where its unofficial?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The official answer is in one of the Q&A's in a Rifter. And I am correct in both aspects of my earlier statement.
Go look for you own self.
Is it an OFFICIAL Q&A? or is it like rifter 25 where its unofficial?
Could we get off the dueling 'show me!' 'No YOU show ME!' stuff and actually discuss the topic? Thanks.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
This is the canon standard for outside the those exceptions that are specifically stated in the class text.
