Dimensional Outbreak is Wicked!

[jaymz]

While I have my usually issues with the back half of the book (stats etc) I will heartily agree that the first half is epic and VERY good and easily worth the price I paid.

[Nekira Sudacne]

What exactly do you like about it?

I say this as someone who has checked it out and found myself decidedly underwhelmed. It had a few bits and peices of good ideas I can cludge into other games, but it failed to make the core premise interesting. basically speaking, their plan for taking down center was so full of holes it was virtually handwaved. "the demons take over because that's the premise for the adventure", which just does nothing but activly kill my interest. When I can't go a whole page without ticking off ways a half-asleep defense force could have nixed the invasion at every step it ruins suspension of disbeleif.

[Zamion138]

I liked it, good info on the demon ships and alot more center info on the actual lay out of the place.
Though after compairing hades and devyal i dont see how hades stands a chance.

[jaymz]

For me it was all about the information on centre in general and less about the Minion War aspect.

[Jay05]

I loved it all the way around

[kaid]

So far out of the whole deeval/demon series of books I find it is the best book of the bunch to this point.

[jaymz]

So far out of the whole deeval/demon series of books I find it is the best book of the bunch to this point.

I really liked the resource that Hades and Dyval can be for all the games not just Rifts

[Jay05]

So far out of the whole deeval/demon series of books I find it is the best book of the bunch to this point.

I really liked the resource that Hades and Dyval can be for all the games not just Rifts

No arguement at all with that. I'm an HU2 player as well as a Rifts player and between those two books and Armageddon Unlimited Demons/Deevils can be fantastic adversaries in HU!

[Nekira Sudacne]

What exactly do you like about it?

I say this as someone who has checked it out and found myself decidedly underwhelmed. It had a few bits and peices of good ideas I can cludge into other games, but it failed to make the core premise interesting. basically speaking, their plan for taking down center was so full of holes it was virtually handwaved. "the demons take over because that's the premise for the adventure", which just does nothing but activly kill my interest. When I can't go a whole page without ticking off ways a half-asleep defense force could have nixed the invasion at every step it ruins suspension of disbeleif.

The demons were planing their invasion of center and the three galaxies for several years. They had the galaxies in disarray and at war with each other due to their "fake return of the cosmic forge" deal. In Center, they have hundreds of demons and devils randomly appearing all over the place in full out battle. At the same time, they had demon fleets (something I found cool in and of it's self), attacking strategic systems. Oh, and they have demon planets that eat other planets. I thought it was brilliant. Not to mention the maps and details on center are very useful, as well as the Phase World timeline. I find the overall story appealing. No one has ever been able to take Center, but the demons almost pull it off, and may have, if it hadn't been for the devils (and potential player characters). It can be played as a one-shot, fast paced, chaotic adventure, or as a long (campaign) epic battle for the freedom of the three galaxies.

That's actually my problem with it. No one has ever been able to take center, and the demons plan to take it is ludicirously simple and prone to failure. it would NOT be up to the heroes to stop it in the confusion, a half awake security organization would have foiled it before it ever got off the ground.

the demon planets are not impressive. with the technology shown any modern fleet could completely annilate it. just build really big antimatter bombs.

demon fleets are kind of handwaved. i'm sort of neutral on them.

hundreds of demons and devils is not a real problem for the military. the outbreak as it's discribed should have been mopped up in a matter of hours, without needing any outside help. the plan only works if suddenly you replace the promethian security teams that HAVE kept center free for mellenia with blithering idiots, and that's my problem. the demon plan DOSN'T need heros to save center, center needs only marginally copentent rent-a-cops to save them, and it HAS crack commando teams. the fact that they fail so specaturaly is, frankly, an insult to center. that's the problem. I read it and I fail to see any need for heroes, because there's no reason the organizations involved can't deal with it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Indeed. your not wrong for liking it, I just don't.

I am curious how you do get around the whole "Why don't they just blow up Cormal with a really really big bomb, given how many ships are powered with how much antimatter, it would be a trivial feat of engineering, and even if you can't make one really big bomb because of scope, given that we know just a few grams of antimatter do 2d4*100 MDC, if we assume the maximum damage is 3 grams, then it's actually trivial to calculate how big a bomb you need to crack cormial.

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit. every shipyard in the three galaxies is capable of producing weapons that can oneshot cormal

you wouldn't even need to invent new technologies. just build a really big ship and daisy-chain antimatter containment systems already in place.

have several shipyards produce thousands of them

then get a fleet to launch those thousands alongside tens of thousands of regular missiles and projectiles

when the average high school physics student can think of how to blow up the lynchpin of the demons invasion plans, it's a pretty crappy plan.

[Zamion138]

Indeed. your not wrong for liking it, I just don't.

I am curious how you do get around the whole "Why don't they just blow up Cormal with a really really big bomb, given how many ships are powered with how much antimatter, it would be a trivial feat of engineering, and even if you can't make one really big bomb because of scope, given that we know just a few grams of antimatter do 2d4*100 MDC, if we assume the maximum damage is 3 grams, then it's actually trivial to calculate how big a bomb you need to crack cormial.

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit. every shipyard in the three galaxies is capable of producing weapons that can oneshot cormal

you wouldn't even need to invent new technologies. just build a really big ship and daisy-chain antimatter containment systems already in place.

have several shipyards produce thousands of them

then get a fleet to launch those thousands alongside tens of thousands of regular missiles and projectiles

when the average high school physics student can think of how to blow up the lynchpin of the demons invasion plans, it's a pretty crappy plan.

Yeah if you can get them to cormel , his swapping of gravitates and the rest of the armada are with him, hes not cruisng around alone. If you fired 250 cruise missiles at him from all angels he would deflect at least half of them and/or push them along to the fighters on the other side of him.

[Hystrix]

Indeed. your not wrong for liking it, I just don't.

I am curious how you do get around the whole "Why don't they just blow up Cormal with a really really big bomb, given how many ships are powered with how much antimatter, it would be a trivial feat of engineering, and even if you can't make one really big bomb because of scope, given that we know just a few grams of antimatter do 2d4*100 MDC, if we assume the maximum damage is 3 grams, then it's actually trivial to calculate how big a bomb you need to crack cormial.

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit. every shipyard in the three galaxies is capable of producing weapons that can oneshot cormal

you wouldn't even need to invent new technologies. just build a really big ship and daisy-chain antimatter containment systems already in place.

have several shipyards produce thousands of them

then get a fleet to launch those thousands alongside tens of thousands of regular missiles and projectiles

when the average high school physics student can think of how to blow up the lynchpin of the demons invasion plans, it's a pretty crappy plan.

Well I think we can all agree that 100 million MDC is woefully tiny for a friggin Jupiter sized planet. Not to mention a DEMONIC Jupiter sized planet.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Indeed. your not wrong for liking it, I just don't.

I am curious how you do get around the whole "Why don't they just blow up Cormal with a really really big bomb, given how many ships are powered with how much antimatter, it would be a trivial feat of engineering, and even if you can't make one really big bomb because of scope, given that we know just a few grams of antimatter do 2d4*100 MDC, if we assume the maximum damage is 3 grams, then it's actually trivial to calculate how big a bomb you need to crack cormial.

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit. every shipyard in the three galaxies is capable of producing weapons that can oneshot cormal

you wouldn't even need to invent new technologies. just build a really big ship and daisy-chain antimatter containment systems already in place.

have several shipyards produce thousands of them

then get a fleet to launch those thousands alongside tens of thousands of regular missiles and projectiles

when the average high school physics student can think of how to blow up the lynchpin of the demons invasion plans, it's a pretty crappy plan.

Well I think we can all agree that 100 million MDC is woefully tiny for a friggin Jupiter sized planet. Not to mention a DEMONIC Jupiter sized planet.

dosn't really matter, give it a hundred billion MDC and you've only increased the amount of antimatter needed to blow it up to 250,000 kilograms of antimatter.

bottom line is, blowing up a jupiter sized planet is a completely trivial feat for any galatic power. making it a demonic planet only means it costs a bit more to do it, not that it's any harder to do

[Nekira Sudacne]

Indeed. your not wrong for liking it, I just don't.

I am curious how you do get around the whole "Why don't they just blow up Cormal with a really really big bomb, given how many ships are powered with how much antimatter, it would be a trivial feat of engineering, and even if you can't make one really big bomb because of scope, given that we know just a few grams of antimatter do 2d4*100 MDC, if we assume the maximum damage is 3 grams, then it's actually trivial to calculate how big a bomb you need to crack cormial.

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit. every shipyard in the three galaxies is capable of producing weapons that can oneshot cormal

you wouldn't even need to invent new technologies. just build a really big ship and daisy-chain antimatter containment systems already in place.

have several shipyards produce thousands of them

then get a fleet to launch those thousands alongside tens of thousands of regular missiles and projectiles

when the average high school physics student can think of how to blow up the lynchpin of the demons invasion plans, it's a pretty crappy plan.

Yeah if you can get them to cormel , his swapping of gravitates and the rest of the armada are with him, hes not cruisng around alone. If you fired 250 cruise missiles at him from all angels he would deflect at least half of them and/or push them along to the fighters on the other side of him.

which is why you don't send the bomb alone to do it, you send an entire fleet to do it and bring tens of thousands of those bombs with you. one of them gets through.

it's a matter of cost, not ability. and at the kind of intergalatic budget and scale of antimatter production, 10,000 cormal-destroying bombs amounts to a rounding error in the CAF's budget.

[Zamion138]

Indeed. your not wrong for liking it, I just don't.

I am curious how you do get around the whole "Why don't they just blow up Cormal with a really really big bomb, given how many ships are powered with how much antimatter, it would be a trivial feat of engineering, and even if you can't make one really big bomb because of scope, given that we know just a few grams of antimatter do 2d4*100 MDC, if we assume the maximum damage is 3 grams, then it's actually trivial to calculate how big a bomb you need to crack cormial.

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit. every shipyard in the three galaxies is capable of producing weapons that can oneshot cormal

you wouldn't even need to invent new technologies. just build a really big ship and daisy-chain antimatter containment systems already in place.

have several shipyards produce thousands of them

then get a fleet to launch those thousands alongside tens of thousands of regular missiles and projectiles

when the average high school physics student can think of how to blow up the lynchpin of the demons invasion plans, it's a pretty crappy plan.

Yeah if you can get them to cormel , his swapping of gravitates and the rest of the armada are with him, hes not cruisng around alone. If you fired 250 cruise missiles at him from all angels he would deflect at least half of them and/or push them along to the fighters on the other side of him.

which is why you don't send the bomb alone to do it, you send an entire fleet to do it and bring tens of thousands of those bombs with you. one of them gets through.

it's a matter of cost, not ability. and at the kind of intergalatic budget and scale of antimatter production, 10,000 cormal-destroying bombs amounts to a rounding error in the CAF's budget.

Ill give you that, the budget for an intergalactic force is not going to be to over whelmed by it. But if cormel can be summoned at the cost of i think 666 mortal lives sacrificed he will just come back......i might have to re read on that part.

[Nekira Sudacne]

which is why you don't send the bomb alone to do it, you send an entire fleet to do it and bring tens of thousands of those bombs with you. one of them gets through.

it's a matter of cost, not ability. and at the kind of intergalatic budget and scale of antimatter production, 10,000 cormal-destroying bombs amounts to a rounding error in the CAF's budget.

Makes you wonder why enemies aren't just anti-matter bombing each other into oblivion, don't it?

Not really, it's for the same reason we didn't invade afganistan by nuking it into oblivion. killing civilians is generally morally wrong, and it's hard to occupy a planet for yourself if you've bown it up. A demon planet on the other hand is quite another matter. it's only inhabited by demons and you don't want to stick around on it, so the usual reasons not to destroy it arn't present.

I'm pretty sure anti-matter bombs would have a highly negative effect on the "galactic biosphere" (like potential black holes).

Ummm, no, no they would not. even the 250,000 kiloton bomb that does billions of damage would have absolutely 0 impact beyond the system you set it off in. and making black holes...you DO know what a black hole IS, right? explosions push matter APART, not make it collapse in on itself :/

the smallest star in existance has explosions trillions of times more powerful than the antimatter bomb I discribed going on every second. seriously, it has absolutely zero downsides beyond the blast radius and the new asteroid belt it makes.

That, and at the beginning of the outbreak, Cormal destroys any witnesses of his appearance, so they'd have to find him first. Then there is his spawning ability, which he already has a few of his planet-hell spawns in place around the three galaxies (I think at least two).

A demon planet isn't too hard to find, just trace where the fleets are coming from. his spawning ability is limited, he can only make 3, and each spawned planet is actually a fragment of his own essence. each planet he makes directly reduces his own power. and also dosn't matter cuz his spawn can be destroyed as trivially as cormal himself.

Edit: Oh, and the other galactic groups are already at war with each other!

It dosn't really matter. any one of them can do this entirely on their own with a trivial allocation of resources. and not just the major groups. the MINOR groups can do it without help from anyone.

[ZINO]

Dimensional Outbreak is Wicked! indeed for me it been an epic battle and in CCW playing the back drop in CWW colonies needing help and other power bloc and adding my little u unknown power bloc helping the CWW it been epic to the point that I started with 8 player and gone up to 21 players going ape in battle from tech , magic ,pisionics ,techno wizards, chi, super powered being !!!!

[Nekira Sudacne]

Dimensional Outbreak is Wicked! indeed for me it been an epic battle and in OW playing the back drop in CWW colonies needing help and other power bloc and adding my little u unknown power bloc helping the CWW it been epic to the point that I started with 8 player and gone up to 21 players going ape in battle from tech , magic ,pisionics ,techno wizards, chi, super powered being !!!!

I think this is more or less the issue.

If you already think a huge, epic fight for survival as demons start to overrun civilization is a great game for phase world, then I guess Dimensional Outbreak delivers.

if your like me and thought that premise was a bit silly and unrealistic, then dimensional outbreak dosn't do much to sell you on it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Ummm, no, no they would not. even the 250,000 kiloton bomb that does billions of damage would have absolutely 0 impact beyond the system you set it off in. and making black holes...you DO know what a black hole IS, right? explosions push matter APART, not make it collapse in on itself :/

Geez, no reason to insult my intelligence. I'm no physicist or even a physics student. I DO know what a black hole is, and what an explosion does. But as I understand it, in real life, anti-matter is still theoretical, so we really don't know what would happen.

Apologies, I definatly stepped out of line. I've been fighting a cold all week and that makes me cranky, not that it's an excuse. also as a sci-fi geek who mostly RP's with other sci-fi geeks I tend to take it for granted how much astral physics is common knowlage in the RP circiles.

anyway, to stop being condencending and to start being helpful, no, antimatter is not a theoretical thing anymore. we've created it in large particle colliders, we've studied and mesured it's effects exactly. we know exactly the energy it gives off, and can mathmatically calculate the effect of any given size explosion. I don't personally know the equations, but I have seen them before and know if I really really reserched it I could calculate for you exactly how much antimatter it'd take to reduce juipter to an asteroid feild. I have absolutely no idea how to get that much antimatter without spending many times more energy than that to create it, but given that basically every modern ship is powered by enough antimatter to last 30-50 years, we have already established that making that much antimatter is not beyond the CAF's ability. but while the means by which they produce it are unkown, we can mathmatically calculate the effect of that much antimatter.

A demon planet isn't too hard to find, just trace where the fleets are coming from. his spawning ability is limited, he can only make 3, and each spawned planet is actually a fragment of his own essence. each planet he makes directly reduces his own power. and also dosn't matter cuz his spawn can be destroyed as trivially as cormal himself.

No, I guess if a planet could rift it's self 2,000 light years, with seemingly no limitation to how often it could do this, then I suppose that wouldn't be too hard to find . And Cormal isn't the only source of the demonic fleets, he's not even the main source.

I'll grant, pinning down Cormal isn't exactly a walk in the park, but if the demons intend to use his formidable power, and it's clearly stated they intend to use him as a mobile command center and fleet center, then it is inevitable that it will be used in an attack at some point, which leaves it open to someone sneaking a means to track it on board

It dosn't really matter. any one of them can do this entirely on their own with a trivial allocation of resources. and not just the major groups. the MINOR groups can do it without help from anyone.

I'm not saying what you're talking about is implausible, I'm just saying it may not be as elementary as you're making it out to be. Cormal has a crap ton of psionic, magic, and (super)natural defenses. He could possess a captain of your anti-matter carrying ship. He could use his gravity glands to pop their bombs right back at them. Cormal isn't as much of a pushover as you're trying to make him out to be, is all I'm saying.

[/quote]

The problem is we have his magic list, we have his list of psionics, and there's really nothing in them that will be of much help. Yes, I will absolutely grant that cormal can counter one bomb. I will grant he can counter a hundred such bombs. I am saying that any given galatic power can keep producing however many bombs they need. yes, he can use his gravity glands to toss one back. or a dozen back. can he toss a thousand back? ten thousand? one hundred thousand? one million? every single modern shipyard in the three galaxies has the facilities to make these things. it's a matter of time. He's exactly the kind of foe that zerg rush tactics were invented for. keep throwing thousands of expendable suicide bombers at him until one gets through, because one is all you need.

I'm not saying your doing it wrong--your having fun, so obviously your doing it right! I'm afraid my knowlage of industrial techniques and physics can sometimes be a barrier to my enjoying common sci-fi tropes. I just can't suspend disbeleif on these things.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

Indeed. your not wrong for liking it, I just don't.

I am curious how you do get around the whole "Why don't they just blow up Cormal with a really really big bomb, given how many ships are powered with how much antimatter, it would be a trivial feat of engineering, and even if you can't make one really big bomb because of scope, given that we know just a few grams of antimatter do 2d4*100 MDC, if we assume the maximum damage is 3 grams, then it's actually trivial to calculate how big a bomb you need to crack cormial.

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit. every shipyard in the three galaxies is capable of producing weapons that can oneshot cormal

you wouldn't even need to invent new technologies. just build a really big ship and daisy-chain antimatter containment systems already in place.

have several shipyards produce thousands of them

then get a fleet to launch those thousands alongside tens of thousands of regular missiles and projectiles

when the average high school physics student can think of how to blow up the lynchpin of the demons invasion plans, it's a pretty crappy plan.

Yeah if you can get them to cormel , his swapping of gravitates and the rest of the armada are with him, hes not cruisng around alone. If you fired 250 cruise missiles at him from all angels he would deflect at least half of them and/or push them along to the fighters on the other side of him.

which is why you don't send the bomb alone to do it, you send an entire fleet to do it and bring tens of thousands of those bombs with you. one of them gets through.

it's a matter of cost, not ability. and at the kind of intergalatic budget and scale of antimatter production, 10,000 cormal-destroying bombs amounts to a rounding error in the CAF's budget.

Anyone who wants to know how this works...

read David Weber's The Shiva Option

[Shawn Merrow]

One my favorite books and I think the best by Carl Gleba. I ran a one shot game when Robyn Stott visited me a few years back using it and it was a blast.

[Talavar]

I like Dimensional Outbreak for the info on Centre, and some of the general Minion War info for the 3 Galaxies; I wouldn't use much of the laid-out meta-plot.

[DhAkael]

To the nay-sayers and critics? -meh-
You are untitled to your opinion. In fact I may even agree with some of your negative critques.
However, that being said, all-in-all 'Dimensional Outbreak' is THE best written and most useful book to come out in several years. MUCH more useful than say the revised Sparkling-Emo Kingdoms and Sparkling-Emo Sourcebook.
..and not JUST because of the info about Center.

As for the meta-plot; yes it has holes in it so large a Super Star-Destoyer could fly through them sideways with room to spare, but who cares!!!?
If you're a GM worth your D20's you can look at said plot points, shrug and modify to suit your game as needed.
If you, as GM are more tactically minded than the Daemons & Infernals, USE that tactical sense to re-work the invasion plan.
If you want the unholy legions to fail, then set it up they get curb-stomped as soon as they rear their ugly heads out of the lower levels. Remember though; they have had DECADES to work out their invasion plans, if not centuries. PLUS they have a mole capable of circumventing Center's security net (re; the whole Tolkeen defeated by one guy opening the back door plot-hook). Use as much or as little as you want.
It's a darn good book (but not flawless).

..and yes. This is all coming from a guy who generaly slags and pans most of what has come out of PBooks in the last 5 years. Think about it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

To the nay-sayers and critics? -meh-
You are untitled to your opinion. In fact I may even agree with some of your negative critques.
However, that being said, all-in-all 'Dimensional Outbreak' is THE best written and most useful book to come out in several years. MUCH more useful than say the revised Sparkling-Emo Kingdoms and Sparkling-Emo Sourcebook.
..and not JUST because of the info about Center.

..and yes. This is all coming from a guy who generaly slags and pans most of what has come out of PBooks in the last 5 years. Think about it.

So what exactly makes it the best written? or let me rephrase it: i'll grant it's better written written and put togeather from a technical standpoint, but if the actual content is of little use or interest to me, It dosn't much matter in the end. i'm not an english teacher, being a well organized and laid out book is worth points...but not very many.

As for the meta-plot; yes it has holes in it so large a Super Star-Destoyer could fly through them sideways with room to spare, but who cares!!!?

I care, or I wouldn't be talking about it. Just because you don't care dosn't mean i'm wrong to care.

If you're a GM worth your D20's you can look at said plot points, shrug and modify to suit your game as needed.
If you, as GM are more tactically minded than the Daemons & Infernals, USE that tactical sense to re-work the invasion plan.
If you want the unholy legions to fail, then set it up they get curb-stomped as soon as they rear their ugly heads out of the lower levels. Remember though; they have had DECADES to work out their invasion plans, if not centuries. PLUS they have a mole capable of circumventing Center's security net (re; the whole Tolkeen defeated by one guy opening the back door plot-hook). Use as much or as little as you want.
It's a darn good book (but not flawless).

I don't think you quite got my core complaint. it's not that the meta-plot is badly put togeather (although large points off for that), it's this: the meta-plot failed to justify it's existance in the line at all.

it's not so much that I CAN'T rework the meta-plot to suit me, it's that it fails to sell me on the idea the meta plot should be used at all.

it's not that I want the demons curb stomped within hours, or that I want center to fall, it's that it fails to give me any reason to include the minion war in the first place. the seige on tolkeen, for all it's flaws, had buy-in. you knew the war was going to happen, you wanted it to happen, even if you didn't want to play through it all. here? I don't see a reason the minion war should have ever happened. I don't see what it adds to the game line. it's not that I can't modify it, it's that I fail to see a reason to use it in any capacity.

and that was it's job. it's not just supposed to show me how to use the minion war, it's supposed to SELL me on the minion war, to make me give a damn, and it failed. three books in i've not seen anything that tickles my imagination or makes me want to see what effects it has.

after reading the book, the only thing that came to mind mind is this: my head is full of stories of all the infinite possibilites of Center and the three galaxies, and the minion war still has no role in any of them.

THAT is the biggest failure a sourcebook can have, when it dosn't give you a single idea to use with it, and in my mind, dimenisonal outbreak is one one of the worst. it's not a bad book, I just don't have any interest to use it. the only other book so poorly inspiring was england.

"Demons invade and threaten everything you hold dear" is like, the oldest metaplot in RPG history. You have to do something new and exciting with it, and the minion war is so paint-by-the-numbers, full-of-tactical-holes-an-8-year-old-can-see, and worst, it dosnt' actually add anything to the game lines, it's just a transparent ploy by palladium to drum up sales with a crossover event, and it dosn't make it a worthwhile addition to the game lines.

[Talavar]

To the nay-sayers and critics? -meh-
You are untitled to your opinion. In fact I may even agree with some of your negative critques.
However, that being said, all-in-all 'Dimensional Outbreak' is THE best written and most useful book to come out in several years. MUCH more useful than say the revised Sparkling-Emo Kingdoms and Sparkling-Emo Sourcebook.
..and not JUST because of the info about Center.

I fail to see the Twilight connection you're evidently so opposed to. Palladium vampires have got to be some of the least Twilight-esque vampires this side of Transylvania. I also think books that flesh out Mexico are probably more useful to anyone playing Rifts in North America than a book about demons and devils attacking another dimension. And this is from someone who liked a lot of Dimensional Outbreak.

[kaid]

Um really not sure why somebody would correlate twilight vampires from rift vampires. Other than the alien intelligence angle the rifts vampires are much closer to traditional dracula style vampires than any emo sparkle vampires.

I am pretty sure having giant pyramids devoted to the "milking" of their human cattle is not something you would likely see in twilight.

[Zamion138]

Um really not sure why somebody would correlate twilight vampires from rift vampires. Other than the alien intelligence angle the rifts vampires are much closer to traditional dracula style vampires than any emo sparkle vampires.

I am pretty sure having giant pyramids devoted to the "milking" of their human cattle is not something you would likely see in twilight.

Having no twilight knowledge here.......is there alien intelligence's in twilight?

[Zamion138]

I fail to see the Twilight connection you're evidently so opposed to.

Um really not sure why somebody would correlate twilight vampires from rift vampires.

Oh, god no! If they were anything like the Twilight, I hate to say, "vampires", I would literally quit playing Rifts. And that would suck. It's my favorite game.

Having no twilight knowledge here.......is there alien intelligence's in twilight?

Your not missing anything. My wife and daughter are huge fans (face palm). No, there is no intelligence, not even an alien one. There is really bad acting, though.

Ok good i did not want to have a reason to see it.

[Tor]

I'm primarily interested in whatever book has a spell that lets me sacrifice other beings and permanently add their PPE to mine.

[The Beast]

I'm primarily interested in whatever book has a spell that lets me sacrifice other beings and permanently add their PPE to mine.

Should be DB12.

[Tor]

Asked in chat, called Heart of Darkness. I just need to remember "think of Kane and Janos Audron".

[Tor]

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit.

Ah, but what is the explosion radius of anti-matter?

I'm thinking if it were all applied in a single area it'd be more like shooting off the limb of a humanoid, obliterating part, but not all.

If the blast radius was a mile and the planet had a radius of 10 miles, for example, even saturating the outer surface of the planet with anti-matter shouldn't be able to reduce it below 90% of it's MDC.

But then, I'm thinking in tech terms and not organic terms...

[Nekira Sudacne]

he has 100 million MDC. if we assume every 3 grams of antimatter deals 400 MDC, then it would take a mere 250 kilograms of antimatter to completely destroy cormal in one hit.

Ah, but what is the explosion radius of anti-matter?

I'm thinking if it were all applied in a single area it'd be more like shooting off the limb of a humanoid, obliterating part, but not all.

If the blast radius was a mile and the planet had a radius of 10 miles, for example, even saturating the outer surface of the planet with anti-matter shouldn't be able to reduce it below 90% of it's MDC.

But then, I'm thinking in tech terms and not organic terms...

your forgetting just how giant this blast is. it'd have radius of hundreds of miles and then would cause shockwaves and plasma waves and other secondary damage effects. and lastly, he is a living being, which means at some point shock and blood loss also play into it. MDC is intended to abstract all of that away. he has 100 million MDC, that includes any such secondary things of his structure. hence a 100 million MDC bomb kills him.

[Cybermancer]

I liked Hades and Dyval way better than this book. I don't think it's a complete write off but it's not great. I agree with Nekira so far as Center goes. I wouldn't use anything from that section. The rest of it, I would use bits and pieces. Fighting the demon forces is basically a space war against demons. PC's are likely to go after some macguffin or another to end things a little more quickly. Otherwise they're just cogs in a bigger battle or war with everything going on as basically a backdrop. It's not the best of the Minion War series and it's not the best book for Phase world. So far it's my least favorite in both categories.

[Tor]

your forgetting just how giant this blast is

Not really... since I asked what the radius was, I can't forget what I didn't know...

it'd have radius of hundreds of miles and then would cause shockwaves and plasma waves and other secondary damage effects.

Cool but just to clarify, where do we find out the guidelines for blast radius of antimatter bombs?

he is a living being, which means at some point shock and blood loss also play into it.

Well you need blood loss to go into shock... but not all living beings have blood... can we clarify whether or not Ego... er... whatever his name is, has blood?

MDC is intended to abstract all of that away. he has 100 million MDC, that includes any such secondary things of his structure. hence a 100 million MDC bomb kills him.

RUE has some tables on how SDC creatures can survive mega-damage, surely mega-damage beings should also benefit from them. Especially massive beings. If the radius was small enough it'd be like blowing off his pinky. This MDC is designed to resist mass combat from various ships firing at his center of mass from all over the place building up over time, not a single attack which hits in a distinct limited area.

[Nekira Sudacne]

your forgetting just how giant this blast is

Not really... since I asked what the radius was, I can't forget what I didn't know...

it'd have radius of hundreds of miles and then would cause shockwaves and plasma waves and other secondary damage effects.

Cool but just to clarify, where do we find out the guidelines for blast radius of antimatter bombs?

he is a living being, which means at some point shock and blood loss also play into it.

Well you need blood loss to go into shock... but not all living beings have blood... can we clarify whether or not Ego... er... whatever his name is, has blood?

MDC is intended to abstract all of that away. he has 100 million MDC, that includes any such secondary things of his structure. hence a 100 million MDC bomb kills him.

RUE has some tables on how SDC creatures can survive mega-damage, surely mega-damage beings should also benefit from them. Especially massive beings. If the radius was small enough it'd be like blowing off his pinky. This MDC is designed to resist mass combat from various ships firing at his center of mass from all over the place building up over time, not a single attack which hits in a distinct limited area.

You'd have to brush up on physics to find out exactly how wide the blast radius is, but suffice it to say the bigger the bomb the bigger the blast radius. ergo, for my point, it's completely irrelevent how big a bomb would be required for a single bomb to blast Cormal to his core--you can still make it.

Also, we know Cormal has blood because cormals blood is a required component in the creation of demon knights.

Of course, sinse it has blood, that leads to the amusing possibility of Cormal being killed via a souldrinking weapon...

[Witchcraft]

It seems like a pretty intense discussion here. My personal opinion: The material in Dimensional Outbreak is fun! In order to make it work for my megaversal-spanning campaign I have to buff the Demons / Deevil factions exponentially. I would personally put a ring on Carl Gleba's finger and play second-fiddle to my wife...

However, in my opinion, the demon threat as written / described is woefully inadequate. What I have done is used a lot of those ideas because I think the classic demon-invasion hook is a neat one -- but I have buffed and enhanced them to the point of ridicuosity. Is this canon? LOL! It's not even close but you'd better believe the PCs and NPC Phase World / Three Galaxies Denizens are FINALLY (rightfully) afraid of extinction.

Has anyone else had success with this tactic?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Of course, sinse it has blood, that leads to the amusing possibility of Cormal being killed via a souldrinking weapon...

Wow! Or better yet, the Splugies could use it to create a pretty epic rune weapon.

what does it having blood have to do with creating a rune weapon out of it

You can make a rune weapon out of anything, weather it has blood or not, like elementals.

[Chronicle]

Let us all to agree to disagree, no point in bating each other back and forth to see your individual points when both sides are set in your like/dislike.

Personally i liked the book. I am not going to try to force Nekira to like it.


Its like the Whole Atheist vs Religion thing.......... no losers in the contest since both sides feel they are winning or have won.





EDIT: WOW, i just realized how much of a jerk i sounded like, Sorry everyone.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Of course, sinse it has blood, that leads to the amusing possibility of Cormal being killed via a souldrinking weapon...

Wow! Or better yet, the Splugies could use it to create a pretty epic rune weapon.

what does it having blood have to do with creating a rune weapon out of it

You can make a rune weapon out of anything, weather it has blood or not, like elementals.

Just the idea. You mentioned soul drinking. I thought the essence of Cormal would make a pretty wicked rune weapon. Blood has got nothing to do with it. Believe it or not, not everything has to be a debate.

I wasn't debating. I honestly didn't understand what you meant. Not everything IS a debate. sometimes a question is just a question.

[Witchcraft]

Anyone have any luck with my suggestion?? Using the Dimensional Outbreak as written wasn't plausible but I've buffed the demon invasion forces exponentially to add a real sense of impending threat and "urgency" to the conflict.

[Shadow Wyrm]

Liked the book, but I wish they would of marked out more of the key planets on the map(page 70).

[Tor]

The book gives the MDC of his veins, so, we can assume it has blood.

Perhaps they flow with ichor rather than blood, like Achilles of legend?

we know Cormal has blood because cormals blood is a required component in the creation of demon knights. Of course, sinse it has blood, that leads to the amusing possibility of Cormal being killed via a souldrinking weapon...

Ah okay, if it says blood then I can't weasel my way out. I like the souldrinker idea. Though if he qualifies as an alien intelligence then he might have some undefined resistance to it like the others. Though perhaps not a complete immunity like the GOOs.

Its like the Whole Atheist vs Religion thing.......... no losers in the contest since both sides feel they are winning or have won. EDIT: WOW, i just realized how much of a jerk i sounded like, Sorry everyone.

Feeling like you won isn't winning

[Tor]

Why not just make friends with Cormal? He seems like a misunderstood guy. Everyone just default declares war on demon planets, nobody tries to be their buddy.

[Zamion138]

Why not just make friends with Cormal? He seems like a misunderstood guy. Everyone just default declares war on demon planets, nobody tries to be their buddy.

Cept hades......hades made him a buddy

[Tor]

Aideoneous the Greek or Palladia's Nightlands?