Who are the strongest supers physically ?

[Nightmask]

WWH gets mentioned and no one mentions Marvel's Sentry? He fought Warbound Hulk HTH to a Standstill. Also, they introduced in the last few years another retcon character called the Blue Marvel who is easily in that class as well.

Well people generally dismiss Sentry as a Villain Sue (like Red Hulk) and consider his accomplishments to be of no value because he's handed everything and has victories he shouldn't have in classic Mary Sue fashion. People don't generally include Mary Sues as a result.

[Jay05]

WWH gets mentioned and no one mentions Marvel's Sentry? He fought Warbound Hulk HTH to a Standstill. Also, they introduced in the last few years another retcon character called the Blue Marvel who is easily in that class as well.

Well people generally dismiss Sentry as a Villain Sue (like Red Hulk) and consider his accomplishments to be of no value because he's handed everything and has victories he shouldn't have in classic Mary Sue fashion. People don't generally include Mary Sues as a result.

I've never agreed with that BS and I've been reading Marvel since '82 and I honestly thought it was about time someone gave Gen. Ross the power to back up the gums he's been flapping for forty years. As for Sentry, he's a Superman knockoff, not really much different in that regard than Wonder man or Hyperion. I don't see how either, especially the empowerment of an original Marvel '60s character is a "sue" since aren't sue's supposed to somehow be an idealized version of the author? I seriously doubt Loeb (Who empowered Ross but didn't create him) an idealized version of himself. And as for Sentry being "handed his victories" Sure, he's a retcon, they had to go back and say he'd done all this stuff decades before to give him a history and fit him in the continuity.

[Nightmask]

WWH gets mentioned and no one mentions Marvel's Sentry? He fought Warbound Hulk HTH to a Standstill. Also, they introduced in the last few years another retcon character called the Blue Marvel who is easily in that class as well.

Well people generally dismiss Sentry as a Villain Sue (like Red Hulk) and consider his accomplishments to be of no value because he's handed everything and has victories he shouldn't have in classic Mary Sue fashion. People don't generally include Mary Sues as a result.

I've never agreed with that BS and I've been reading Marvel since '82 and I honestly thought it was about time someone gave Gen. Ross the power to back up the gums he's been flapping for forty years. As for Sentry, he's a Superman knockoff, not really much different in that regard than Wonder man or Hyperion. I don't see how either, especially the empowerment of an original Marvel '60s character is a "sue" since aren't sue's supposed to somehow be an idealized version of the author? I seriously doubt Loeb (Who empowered Ross but didn't create him) an idealized version of himself. And as for Sentry being "handed his victories" Sure, he's a retcon, they had to go back and say he'd done all this stuff decades before to give him a history and fit him in the continuity.

I've been reading Marvel longer than that and Ross has had power before (when he absorbed Zaxx for example), it was hardly the time to 'give him the power' as it were. Particularly when he's going around violating the basic laws of the MU that have been around far longer (hey look I can beat Thor up with his own hammer that nobody but Thor should be able to lift!).

Sue's are 'perfect' characters, they violate the basic laws of the setting and prove to have everyone suddenly loving them or otherwise deferring to them. Plus what do you think those retcons are but Sue insertions so that Sentry suddenly replaces everyone else? That's classic Sue behavior. Heck they have him better at controlling molecules than the MOLECULE MAN, the ultimate master of molecules and called the most powerful being around by the Living Tribunal itself. Sentry was retconned to be Reed's best friend, the first sex partner of a variety of the MU's females including Rogue, etc. Pure Sue.

[Jay05]

WWH gets mentioned and no one mentions Marvel's Sentry? He fought Warbound Hulk HTH to a Standstill. Also, they introduced in the last few years another retcon character called the Blue Marvel who is easily in that class as well.

Well people generally dismiss Sentry as a Villain Sue (like Red Hulk) and consider his accomplishments to be of no value because he's handed everything and has victories he shouldn't have in classic Mary Sue fashion. People don't generally include Mary Sues as a result.

I've never agreed with that BS and I've been reading Marvel since '82 and I honestly thought it was about time someone gave Gen. Ross the power to back up the gums he's been flapping for forty years. As for Sentry, he's a Superman knockoff, not really much different in that regard than Wonder man or Hyperion. I don't see how either, especially the empowerment of an original Marvel '60s character is a "sue" since aren't sue's supposed to somehow be an idealized version of the author? I seriously doubt Loeb (Who empowered Ross but didn't create him) an idealized version of himself. And as for Sentry being "handed his victories" Sure, he's a retcon, they had to go back and say he'd done all this stuff decades before to give him a history and fit him in the continuity.

I've been reading Marvel longer than that and Ross has had power before (when he absorbed Zaxx for example), it was hardly the time to 'give him the power' as it were. Particularly when he's going around violating the basic laws of the MU that have been around far longer (hey look I can beat Thor up with his own hammer that nobody but Thor should be able to lift!).

Sue's are 'perfect' characters, they violate the basic laws of the setting and prove to have everyone suddenly loving them or otherwise deferring to them. Plus what do you think those retcons are but Sue insertions so that Sentry suddenly replaces everyone else? That's classic Sue behavior. Heck they have him better at controlling molecules than the MOLECULE MAN, the ultimate master of molecules and called the most powerful being around by the Living Tribunal itself. Sentry was retconned to be Reed's best friend, the first sex partner of a variety of the MU's females including Rogue, etc. Pure Sue.

I thought the issue where he used Mjolnir was BS too, but Thor is not the only one who can lift it. it can be lifted by those it deems worthy. Short list(Captain America, Beta Ray Bill, Red Norvell, Erik Masterson), and hell if violating the established laws of the universe is one of the major requisites for being a Sue, then Hulk himself, (Banner) fits. As in various incarnations he has accomplished feats which should have been impossible for his ascribed strength level at the time, (they just keep increasing it). And yeah I have the issue, where Ross combines with Zaxx, Banner is the grey version, and Jones is a skinny green hulk. That just didn't last long. Honestly your opinion regarding whether or not these characters are sues is completely irrelevant to this thread as they both are (and I didn't even mention Red Hulk in my original post) comic book characters and within the continuities they inhabit they are considered among the physically strongest. Period.

[Nightmask]

WWH gets mentioned and no one mentions Marvel's Sentry? He fought Warbound Hulk HTH to a Standstill. Also, they introduced in the last few years another retcon character called the Blue Marvel who is easily in that class as well.

Well people generally dismiss Sentry as a Villain Sue (like Red Hulk) and consider his accomplishments to be of no value because he's handed everything and has victories he shouldn't have in classic Mary Sue fashion. People don't generally include Mary Sues as a result.

I've never agreed with that BS and I've been reading Marvel since '82 and I honestly thought it was about time someone gave Gen. Ross the power to back up the gums he's been flapping for forty years. As for Sentry, he's a Superman knockoff, not really much different in that regard than Wonder man or Hyperion. I don't see how either, especially the empowerment of an original Marvel '60s character is a "sue" since aren't sue's supposed to somehow be an idealized version of the author? I seriously doubt Loeb (Who empowered Ross but didn't create him) an idealized version of himself. And as for Sentry being "handed his victories" Sure, he's a retcon, they had to go back and say he'd done all this stuff decades before to give him a history and fit him in the continuity.

I've been reading Marvel longer than that and Ross has had power before (when he absorbed Zaxx for example), it was hardly the time to 'give him the power' as it were. Particularly when he's going around violating the basic laws of the MU that have been around far longer (hey look I can beat Thor up with his own hammer that nobody but Thor should be able to lift!).

Sue's are 'perfect' characters, they violate the basic laws of the setting and prove to have everyone suddenly loving them or otherwise deferring to them. Plus what do you think those retcons are but Sue insertions so that Sentry suddenly replaces everyone else? That's classic Sue behavior. Heck they have him better at controlling molecules than the MOLECULE MAN, the ultimate master of molecules and called the most powerful being around by the Living Tribunal itself. Sentry was retconned to be Reed's best friend, the first sex partner of a variety of the MU's females including Rogue, etc. Pure Sue.

I thought the issue where he used Mjolnir was BS too, but Thor is not the only one who can lift it. it can be lifted by those it deems worthy. Short list(Captain America, Beta Ray Bill, Red Norvell, Erik Masterson), and hell if violating the established laws of the universe is one of the major requisites for being a Sue, then Hulk himself, (Banner) fits. As in various incarnations he has accomplished feats which should have been impossible for his ascribed strength level at the time, (they just keep increasing it). And yeah I have the issue, where Ross combines with Zaxx, Banner is the grey version, and Jones is a skinny green hulk. That just didn't last long. Honestly your opinion regarding whether or not these characters are sues is completely irrelevant to this thread as they both are (and I didn't even mention Red Hulk in my original post) comic book characters and within the continuities they inhabit they are considered among the physically strongest. Period.

Uh no, Hulk doesn't violate the established rules of the MU, his growing strength as his rage grows is an established aspect of his character. Red Hulk just jumps in and goes around smacking characters around right and left that you don't go smacking around (including Uatu the Watcher) in classic Sue fashion, running roughshod over everything just like Sentry. Which is why most people understandably ignore them when discussing things like powerful characters because they've nothing useful about them.

[Jay05]

I was referring to Hulk's baseline strength, which they DO keep keep increasing with each iteration, which in turn increases his power as he gets mad. And actually, RH has gotten his ass handed to him a few times recently, I'll grant you, he may have started out Sue like but they've moved away from that since. As for nothing useful, that is pure opinion, (yours) which has no bearing on the topic at hand. Again, they are established characters, and within their established continuity they are among the physically strongest. your personal bias here is irrelevant.

[DBX]

Ajax, Badrock, Maul, Atlas, Tyrant, Wonderman, Terrax, Red Shift, Apollo, Destroyer, Blue Marvel, Dragonman, Finn Fang Foom, Orka, Skaar, Mangog, Glory, Supreme, Supergirl, Runner, Captain Britain, Snowbird, Executioner, Superskrull, Nimrod

[Jay05]

Ajax, Badrock, Maul, Atlas, Tyrant, Wonderman, Terrax, Red Shift, Apollo, Destroyer, Blue Marvel, Dragonman, Finn Fang Foom, Orka, Skaar, Mangog, Glory, Supreme, Supergirl, Runner, Captain Britain, Snowbird, Executioner, Superskrull, Nimrod

All good additions DBX, as you mention Red Shift I think all of the heralds of Galactus would probably qualify for the strongest list among the Marvel characters.

[cyberdon]

Abomination
Atlas
Apocalypse
Apollo
Ajax
Badrock
Beta Ray Bill
Blob
Blue Marvel
Captain Britain
Captain Marvel
Champion
Colossus
Darkseid
Destroyer
Doc Samson
Doomsday
Dragonman
Drax
Executioner
Finn Fang Foom
Galactus
Gilgamesh
Gladiator
Glory
Goliath
Hercules
The Hulk
Hyperion
Ironclad
Juggernaut
Kurse
Lobo
Luke Cage
Maestro
Magni
Mangog
Maul
Morg
Ms. Marvel
Namor a.k.a. Sub Mariner
Nimrod
Odin
Onslaught
Orka
Pitt
Plutonian
Red Norvell
Red Shift
Rhino
Rogue
Runner
Sasquatch
Savage Dragon
She-Hulk
Skaar
Snowbird
Strong Guy
Superboy
Supergirl
Superman
Superskrull
Supreme
Thanos
The Thing
Thor
Tiger Shark
Titania
Tyrant
Wendigo
Wonder Woman

[say652]

ok for a useless powerhouse how can we not mention NerdHulk from the marvel ultimates universe. Captain America took him out by kicking him in the wedding tackle. hulks strength and banners intellectual mind. he was so smart he felt a kick to the nads should hurt, so it did. then when fighting the major villian he was afraid to die. when they took away his anger they took away his edge.

[PapaMambo]

I`ve included the strength scales here for both Marvel and DC for characters who can lift in excess of 25 tonnes..

From http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale


Superhuman: 25+ tons to 50 ton range
Adam Warlock - 40 tons (Enhanced by cosmic power)[52]
Annihilus - 50 tons[65]
Apollo - 50 tons[93]
Artemis - 30 tons[94]
Athena - 35 tons[95]
Attuma - 40 tons (If he has has been away from contact with water for an extended period)[96]
Balder - 50 tons[93]
Blastaar - 50 tons[63]
Darkoth - 50 tons[31]
Diamondhead - 45 tons[97]
Dionysus - 30 tons (His strength has decreased considerably over the centuries)[98]
Drax the Destroyer - 50 tons(In his current form)[20]
Eddie Brock (with symbiote) - 30 tons [58]
Firelord - 50 tons[60]
Frey - 30 tons[99]
Ganymede - 50 tons[3]
Grog The God-Slayer - 30 tons[100]
Guardsman (Kevin O'Brien) - 40 tons[101]
Guardsman (Michael O'Brien) - 40 tons[101]
Heimdall - 35 tons[75]
Hermes - 35 tons[102]
Hippolyta - 50 tons (Without wearing the Gauntlets of Ares)[103]
Hogun - 35 tons[54]
Human Robot - 50 tons[20]
Ikaris - 40 tons (Without telekinesis)[79]
Loki - 30 tons orginally[104] currently 50 tons [105](Though it is possible that Loki can temporarily increase his/her strength via mystical means.)[42]
Makkari - 50 tons[26]
Man-Bull - 50 tons (Later in his career and after subsequent mutations)[106]
Master Man - 50 tons (At his peak)[16]
Molten Man - 40 tons[43]
Mordecai Midas - 50 tons[26]
Nova - 40 tons[78]
Photon - 30 tons[49]
Roughouse - 50 tons[49]
Sabra - 50 tons[34]
S.H.I.V.A. - 40 tons[107]
Sif - 30 tons[91]
Tiger Shark - 50 tons (After being dry for several hours)[106]
Tyr - 35 tons (However, his ability to lift and move great weights was affected due to the loss of his left hand)[101]
U-Man - 40 tons (While dry)[63]
U-Man - 50 tons (While immersed in water or is at least wet)[63]
Valkyrie - 45 tons[108]
Vision - 50 tons (While at maximum density, current "Kid Vision" form)[74]
Volstagg - 35 tons (Though his strength has diminished from the 50 ton level due to advanced age and poor physical conditioning)[109]
Woodgod - 50 tons[32]
Wrecker - 40 tons (While possessing all of his powers)[75]
Zuras - 30 tons (Without telekinesis)[30]

Superhuman: 50+ tons to 75 ton range
Ares - 70 tons[19]
Arkon - 75 tons[13]
Attuma - 60 tons (While immersed in water or is even slightly wet)[110]
Black Bolt - 60 tons (Augmented with electron energy)[32]
Carnage - 50 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass)[33]
Dionysus - 70 tons (While he was in his physical prime)[111]
Doc Samson - 70 tons[20]
Executioner - 65 tons[63]
Rhino - 60 tons[49]
Her - 70 tons[112]
Horus - 75 tons[113]
Hulk: Gray Hulk - 70 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state)[67]
Ironclad - 60 tons[33]
Lunatik - 75 tons (Prior to undergoing a severe decrease in his powers, he was ultimately able to lift well over 100 tons.)[42]
Magdalene - 75 tons[26]
Anti-Venom - 70 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass) [114]
Mac Gargan - 70 tons (After bonding with the Venom symbiote, this is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass) [74]
Man-Killer - 75 tons[26]
Midnight Sun - 75 tons[26]
Ms. Marvel - 70 tons[26]
Ms. Marvel II - 75 tons (While in her "She-Thing" form)[47]
Namora - 75 tons (While wet or immersed in water)[28]
Nebula - 60 tons[28]
Neptune - 70 tons (Without supplementing his strength with cosmic powers)[115]
Odin - 75 tons[28]
Orka - 75 tons (While dry)[17]
Overmind - 70 tons (While using his psionic powers to supplement his strength)[116]
Pluto - 75 tons[49]
Redstone - 75 tons[45]
Rockslide - 75 tons[106]
Ronan the Accuser - 60 tons (While wearing his armor)[49]
Seth - 75 tons (Before the loss of his right hand)[117]
Terrax the Tamer - 75 tons (Without supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)[109]
Thundra - 60 tons[11]
Tiger Shark - 75 tons (While immersed in water or wet)[106]
Toxin - 65 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass)[118]

Superhuman: 75+ tons to 90 ton range
Captain Britain - 90 tons (While wearing his costume)[119]
Deathlok - 85 tons (With the potential to be able to lift 150 tons if he were to overcome computer safegards that prevent him from achieving this limit.)[120]
Griffin - 90 tons (With the potential for greater strength due to further mutations)[121]
Hyperion (Squadron Sinister) (Earth-616) - 90 tons[20]
Lionheart - 90 tons[42]
Quicksand - 80 tons[67]
Sasquatch- 90 tons[122] (Current Sasquatch form)
Sphinx - 85 tons[65]
Toxin - 80 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass)[123]
Hulk: Savage Hulk - 90 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state)[67]
Malekith the Accursed - 90 tons (While supplementing his strength with his mystical powers)[63]
Osiris - 80 tons[124]
Quicksand - 80 tons[67]
Sandman - 85 tons[101]
Sub-Mariner - 85 tons (When active on the surface)[16]
Zuras - 90 tons (While supplementing his strength using his telekinetic powers)[30]
Zeus - 90 tons (Without supplementing his strength with cosmic powers)[125]

Superhuman: 90+ tons to 100 ton range
Bloodaxe - 100 tons[126]
The Captain - 95 tons[20]
Danger - 100 tons[20]
Earth Lord - 100 tons[80]
Ultron - 100 tons[51]
Hulk: Merged Hulk - 100 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state)[67]
Hyperion - 100 tons[127]
Iron Man - 100 tons (While wearing the Iron Man armor)[20]
Kronans - 100 tons (Strength level of the average adult Kronan)[32]
Leir - 100 tons[64]
Orka - 95 tons (While wet and without supplementing his strength by drawing upon the energies of killer whales within his vicinity)[17]
Siege - 100 tons [128]
Sub-Mariner - 100 tons (While in contact with water)[16]
Titania (Mary MacPherran) - 100 tons[71]
Ulik - 95 tons[78]

Superhuman: Potentially incalculable, able to lift in excess of 100 tons
A-Bomb - 100 tons[42]
Abomination[129]200 tons
Abraxas[1]
Adversary
Ajax[130]
Akhenaten[1]
Ares - (When wearing the gauntlets of Ares) [19]
Atlas (Erik Josten)[1]
Apocalypse[63]
Beta Ray Bill[131]
Beyonder[126]
Blackheart[132]
Blue Marvel
Captain Axis[32]
Colossus [133]
Count Nefaria[51]
Dragon Man[16]
Ego[3]
Galactus[134]
Gilgamesh[22]
Gladiator (While his confidence is at its peak)[67]
Hela (Provided she wears her cloak)[64]
Hercules[34]
Hulk (All Incarnations while in an enraged emotional state)[67][32]
Hulk 2099 (He has a base strength level of 150 tons and his strength increases as he becomes angrier)[17]
Iron Man -(While wearing the Hulkbuster Iron Man armor)[135]
Juggernaut[136]
Kurse[65]
Living Tribunal[69]
Maestro - 200 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state and his strength dramatically increases as he becomes angrier)[26]
Magneto (While using his magnetic powers to increase his strength)[78]
Mahkizmo[26]
Mangog[101]
Maxam (At his maximum size)[26]
Mephisto (While in his own realm. His strength decreases steadily the longer he is away from it)[132]
Morg The Executioner (While supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)[137]
Nova (While supplementing his strength with the full might of the Nova Force)[89]
Orka (While drawing upon the energies of killer whales within his vicinity)[17]
Ultron (After he became Phalanx Ultron)[51]
Red Hulk[138]
Red Ronin[78]
Red She-Hulk
Reptyl Prime[69]
Sentry[139]
She-Hulk[32]
Silver Surfer (While supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)[70]
Skaar (While in an enraged emotional state)[140]
Stardust (While supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)
Stranger[71]
Surtur[11]
Thanos[71]
Thing[141]
Thor[65]
Tryco Slatterus[3]
Wonder Man[19]
Ymir[2]

(Note: The upper limit of the physical strength of these characters is unknown.)
Undefined: Possessing some degree of superhuman strength, though the current and exact extent of physical strength is not as clearly defined
Caiera Oldstrong - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[32]
Epoch - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[3]
Eric The Red - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[3]
Frankenstein's Monster - More than 2 tons but no more than 10 tons[101]
Gargoyle - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[3]
Grandmaster - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[112]
Huntsman - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[20]
Jack of Hearts - At least 25 tons (There is a possibility that the upper limit of his strength could be higher as his overall power level often fluccuates.)[20]
J2 - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[112]
Killer Shrike - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[120]
Mephista - More than 25 tons but no more than 75 tons[26]
Rage - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons (While not using his strength for violence)[51]
Sabreclaw - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[142]
Sabretooth - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[143]
Super Skrull - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[71]
Warpath - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[74]
Wild Thing - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[74]
Wolverine - More than 800 lbs but no more than 2 tons[143] (He has demonstrated sufficient physical strength to snap steel chains[144][145] and to lift the weight of a dozen men over his head, with one arm, and hurl them through a wooden wall.[146]


And this is from http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Strength_Scale


Superhuman: 25+ tons to 50 ton range
Cyborg (Victor Stone) (easliy able to lift many tons) [13]
Starfire (Koriand'r) (able to lift many tons)

Superhuman: 50+ tons to 75 ton range
Aquaman (about 60 tons on land )[14]
Hippolyta
Vixen (about 55 tons while using the Tantu Totem)[15]

Superhuman: 75+ tons to 90 ton range
Kilowog
Red Tornado

Superhuman: 90+ tons to 100 ton range
Artemis of Bana-Mighdall (New Earth) (with Gauntlet of Atlas)
Atom-Smasher - (Variable) [16]
Cassandra Sandsmark (New Earth)

Superhuman: Class 100+ ;Potentially incalculable (able to lift far in excess of 100 tons)
Achilles Warkiller (New Earth)
Apollo (Earth-50)
Aquaman (Can lift well over 100 tons while underwater)
Ares
Black Adam
Big Barda [17]
Bizarro
Bizarro I
Bizarro II
Bizarro III
Brainiac
Captain Atom
Captain Marvel
Caitlin Fairchild (Earth-50)
Christopher Kent (Earth-16)
Clark Kent (Smallville)
Cyborg (Hank Henshaw)
Darkseid
Despero
Diana of Themyscira (New Earth)
Diana of Themyscira (DCAU)
Donna Troy
Doomsday
Draaga (New Earth)
Eradicator (New Earth)
Etrigan
Frederick Freeman (Earth-S)
Frederick Freeman (New Earth)
Geo-Force
Giganta
Gog
Grayven
He-Man
Herakles (New Earth)
Icon[18]
Isis (Adrianna Tomaz)
Imperiex-Prime (New Earth)
Kalibak
Lar Gand
Linda Danvers (New Earth)
Lobo
Majestic
Majestros (Earth-50)
Major Force
Martian Manhunter [19]
Mary Batson (Earth-S)
Mary Batson (New Earth)
Matrix (Pocket Universe)
Maxima
Mister Miracle (with the Anti-Life Equation)
Mongul I
Mongul II
Nathaniel Adam (New Earth)
Orion
Osiris (Amon Tomaz)
Plastic Man (when in skyscraper form)
Power Boy (New Earth)
Power Girl
Sodam Yat
Solomon Grundy
Superboy (Earth-One)
Superboy (Kon-El)
Superboy (Pocket Universe)
Superboy-Prime
Supergirl (Earth-One)
Supergirl (New Earth)
Superman (Earth-2)
Superman (Earth-15)
Superman (Earth-22)
Superman (Earth-30)
Superman (Earth-31)
Superman (Earth-One)
Superman (Earth-Two)
Superman (New Earth)
Superman (Post-Crisis)
Ultraman (Earth-3)
Ultraman (Earth-Three)
Ultraman (Qward)
William Batson (Earth-S)
William Batson (New Earth)
William Matthews (New Earth)
Cassandra Sandsmark (New Earth)
Wonder Woman (Earth-10)
Wonder Woman (Earth-15)
Wonder Woman (Earth-30)
Wonder Woman (Earth-34)
Zauriel
Zeus (New Earth)
All lanterns when using their rings.

(Note: Many characters' upper power and strength limits have varied greatly over the course of their written histories. Those in the 100+ range, can generally lift as much as 100,000 tons; such as Superman, Captain Marvel, and Darkseid.)

[PapaMambo]

I`ve included the strength scales here for both Marvel and DC for characters who can lift in excess of 25 tonnes..

From http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale


Superhuman: 25+ tons to 50 ton range
Adam Warlock - 40 tons (Enhanced by cosmic power)[52]
Annihilus - 50 tons[65]
Apollo - 50 tons[93]
Artemis - 30 tons[94]
Athena - 35 tons[95]
Attuma - 40 tons (If he has has been away from contact with water for an extended period)[96]
Balder - 50 tons[93]
Blastaar - 50 tons[63]
Darkoth - 50 tons[31]
Diamondhead - 45 tons[97]
Dionysus - 30 tons (His strength has decreased considerably over the centuries)[98]
Drax the Destroyer - 50 tons(In his current form)[20]
Eddie Brock (with symbiote) - 30 tons [58]
Firelord - 50 tons[60]
Frey - 30 tons[99]
Ganymede - 50 tons[3]
Grog The God-Slayer - 30 tons[100]
Guardsman (Kevin O'Brien) - 40 tons[101]
Guardsman (Michael O'Brien) - 40 tons[101]
Heimdall - 35 tons[75]
Hermes - 35 tons[102]
Hippolyta - 50 tons (Without wearing the Gauntlets of Ares)[103]
Hogun - 35 tons[54]
Human Robot - 50 tons[20]
Ikaris - 40 tons (Without telekinesis)[79]
Loki - 30 tons orginally[104] currently 50 tons [105](Though it is possible that Loki can temporarily increase his/her strength via mystical means.)[42]
Makkari - 50 tons[26]
Man-Bull - 50 tons (Later in his career and after subsequent mutations)[106]
Master Man - 50 tons (At his peak)[16]
Molten Man - 40 tons[43]
Mordecai Midas - 50 tons[26]
Nova - 40 tons[78]
Photon - 30 tons[49]
Roughouse - 50 tons[49]
Sabra - 50 tons[34]
S.H.I.V.A. - 40 tons[107]
Sif - 30 tons[91]
Tiger Shark - 50 tons (After being dry for several hours)[106]
Tyr - 35 tons (However, his ability to lift and move great weights was affected due to the loss of his left hand)[101]
U-Man - 40 tons (While dry)[63]
U-Man - 50 tons (While immersed in water or is at least wet)[63]
Valkyrie - 45 tons[108]
Vision - 50 tons (While at maximum density, current "Kid Vision" form)[74]
Volstagg - 35 tons (Though his strength has diminished from the 50 ton level due to advanced age and poor physical conditioning)[109]
Woodgod - 50 tons[32]
Wrecker - 40 tons (While possessing all of his powers)[75]
Zuras - 30 tons (Without telekinesis)[30]

Superhuman: 50+ tons to 75 ton range
Ares - 70 tons[19]
Arkon - 75 tons[13]
Attuma - 60 tons (While immersed in water or is even slightly wet)[110]
Black Bolt - 60 tons (Augmented with electron energy)[32]
Carnage - 50 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass)[33]
Dionysus - 70 tons (While he was in his physical prime)[111]
Doc Samson - 70 tons[20]
Executioner - 65 tons[63]
Rhino - 60 tons[49]
Her - 70 tons[112]
Horus - 75 tons[113]
Hulk: Gray Hulk - 70 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state)[67]
Ironclad - 60 tons[33]
Lunatik - 75 tons (Prior to undergoing a severe decrease in his powers, he was ultimately able to lift well over 100 tons.)[42]
Magdalene - 75 tons[26]
Anti-Venom - 70 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass) [114]
Mac Gargan - 70 tons (After bonding with the Venom symbiote, this is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass) [74]
Man-Killer - 75 tons[26]
Midnight Sun - 75 tons[26]
Ms. Marvel - 70 tons[26]
Ms. Marvel II - 75 tons (While in her "She-Thing" form)[47]
Namora - 75 tons (While wet or immersed in water)[28]
Nebula - 60 tons[28]
Neptune - 70 tons (Without supplementing his strength with cosmic powers)[115]
Odin - 75 tons[28]
Orka - 75 tons (While dry)[17]
Overmind - 70 tons (While using his psionic powers to supplement his strength)[116]
Pluto - 75 tons[49]
Redstone - 75 tons[45]
Rockslide - 75 tons[106]
Ronan the Accuser - 60 tons (While wearing his armor)[49]
Seth - 75 tons (Before the loss of his right hand)[117]
Terrax the Tamer - 75 tons (Without supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)[109]
Thundra - 60 tons[11]
Tiger Shark - 75 tons (While immersed in water or wet)[106]
Toxin - 65 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass)[118]

Superhuman: 75+ tons to 90 ton range
Captain Britain - 90 tons (While wearing his costume)[119]
Deathlok - 85 tons (With the potential to be able to lift 150 tons if he were to overcome computer safegards that prevent him from achieving this limit.)[120]
Griffin - 90 tons (With the potential for greater strength due to further mutations)[121]
Hyperion (Squadron Sinister) (Earth-616) - 90 tons[20]
Lionheart - 90 tons[42]
Quicksand - 80 tons[67]
Sasquatch- 90 tons[122] (Current Sasquatch form)
Sphinx - 85 tons[65]
Toxin - 80 tons (This is not his true limit as his strength increases with his size and variable muscle mass)[123]
Hulk: Savage Hulk - 90 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state)[67]
Malekith the Accursed - 90 tons (While supplementing his strength with his mystical powers)[63]
Osiris - 80 tons[124]
Quicksand - 80 tons[67]
Sandman - 85 tons[101]
Sub-Mariner - 85 tons (When active on the surface)[16]
Zuras - 90 tons (While supplementing his strength using his telekinetic powers)[30]
Zeus - 90 tons (Without supplementing his strength with cosmic powers)[125]

Superhuman: 90+ tons to 100 ton range
Bloodaxe - 100 tons[126]
The Captain - 95 tons[20]
Danger - 100 tons[20]
Earth Lord - 100 tons[80]
Ultron - 100 tons[51]
Hulk: Merged Hulk - 100 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state)[67]
Hyperion - 100 tons[127]
Iron Man - 100 tons (While wearing the Iron Man armor)[20]
Kronans - 100 tons (Strength level of the average adult Kronan)[32]
Leir - 100 tons[64]
Orka - 95 tons (While wet and without supplementing his strength by drawing upon the energies of killer whales within his vicinity)[17]
Siege - 100 tons [128]
Sub-Mariner - 100 tons (While in contact with water)[16]
Titania (Mary MacPherran) - 100 tons[71]
Ulik - 95 tons[78]

Superhuman: Potentially incalculable, able to lift in excess of 100 tons
A-Bomb - 100 tons[42]
Abomination[129]200 tons
Abraxas[1]
Adversary
Ajax[130]
Akhenaten[1]
Ares - (When wearing the gauntlets of Ares) [19]
Atlas (Erik Josten)[1]
Apocalypse[63]
Beta Ray Bill[131]
Beyonder[126]
Blackheart[132]
Blue Marvel
Captain Axis[32]
Colossus [133]
Count Nefaria[51]
Dragon Man[16]
Ego[3]
Galactus[134]
Gilgamesh[22]
Gladiator (While his confidence is at its peak)[67]
Hela (Provided she wears her cloak)[64]
Hercules[34]
Hulk (All Incarnations while in an enraged emotional state)[67][32]
Hulk 2099 (He has a base strength level of 150 tons and his strength increases as he becomes angrier)[17]
Iron Man -(While wearing the Hulkbuster Iron Man armor)[135]
Juggernaut[136]
Kurse[65]
Living Tribunal[69]
Maestro - 200 tons (While in a functionally "calm" emotional state and his strength dramatically increases as he becomes angrier)[26]
Magneto (While using his magnetic powers to increase his strength)[78]
Mahkizmo[26]
Mangog[101]
Maxam (At his maximum size)[26]
Mephisto (While in his own realm. His strength decreases steadily the longer he is away from it)[132]
Morg The Executioner (While supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)[137]
Nova (While supplementing his strength with the full might of the Nova Force)[89]
Orka (While drawing upon the energies of killer whales within his vicinity)[17]
Ultron (After he became Phalanx Ultron)[51]
Red Hulk[138]
Red Ronin[78]
Red She-Hulk
Reptyl Prime[69]
Sentry[139]
She-Hulk[32]
Silver Surfer (While supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)[70]
Skaar (While in an enraged emotional state)[140]
Stardust (While supplementing his strength with the Power Cosmic)
Stranger[71]
Surtur[11]
Thanos[71]
Thing[141]
Thor[65]
Tryco Slatterus[3]
Wonder Man[19]
Ymir[2]

(Note: The upper limit of the physical strength of these characters is unknown.)
Undefined: Possessing some degree of superhuman strength, though the current and exact extent of physical strength is not as clearly defined
Caiera Oldstrong - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[32]
Epoch - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[3]
Eric The Red - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[3]
Frankenstein's Monster - More than 2 tons but no more than 10 tons[101]
Gargoyle - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[3]
Grandmaster - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[112]
Huntsman - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[20]
Jack of Hearts - At least 25 tons (There is a possibility that the upper limit of his strength could be higher as his overall power level often fluccuates.)[20]
J2 - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[112]
Killer Shrike - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[120]
Mephista - More than 25 tons but no more than 75 tons[26]
Rage - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons (While not using his strength for violence)[51]
Sabreclaw - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[142]
Sabretooth - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[143]
Super Skrull - More than 75 tons but no more than 100 tons[71]
Warpath - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[74]
Wild Thing - More than 800 lbs but no more than 25 tons[74]
Wolverine - More than 800 lbs but no more than 2 tons[143] (He has demonstrated sufficient physical strength to snap steel chains[144][145] and to lift the weight of a dozen men over his head, with one arm, and hurl them through a wooden wall.[146]


And this is from http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Strength_Scale


Superhuman: 25+ tons to 50 ton range
Cyborg (Victor Stone) (easliy able to lift many tons) [13]
Starfire (Koriand'r) (able to lift many tons)

Superhuman: 50+ tons to 75 ton range
Aquaman (about 60 tons on land )[14]
Hippolyta
Vixen (about 55 tons while using the Tantu Totem)[15]

Superhuman: 75+ tons to 90 ton range
Kilowog
Red Tornado

Superhuman: 90+ tons to 100 ton range
Artemis of Bana-Mighdall (New Earth) (with Gauntlet of Atlas)
Atom-Smasher - (Variable) [16]
Cassandra Sandsmark (New Earth)

Superhuman: Class 100+ ;Potentially incalculable (able to lift far in excess of 100 tons)
Achilles Warkiller (New Earth)
Apollo (Earth-50)
Aquaman (Can lift well over 100 tons while underwater)
Ares
Black Adam
Big Barda [17]
Bizarro
Bizarro I
Bizarro II
Bizarro III
Brainiac
Captain Atom
Captain Marvel
Caitlin Fairchild (Earth-50)
Christopher Kent (Earth-16)
Clark Kent (Smallville)
Cyborg (Hank Henshaw)
Darkseid
Despero
Diana of Themyscira (New Earth)
Diana of Themyscira (DCAU)
Donna Troy
Doomsday
Draaga (New Earth)
Eradicator (New Earth)
Etrigan
Frederick Freeman (Earth-S)
Frederick Freeman (New Earth)
Geo-Force
Giganta
Gog
Grayven
He-Man
Herakles (New Earth)
Icon[18]
Isis (Adrianna Tomaz)
Imperiex-Prime (New Earth)
Kalibak
Lar Gand
Linda Danvers (New Earth)
Lobo
Majestic
Majestros (Earth-50)
Major Force
Martian Manhunter [19]
Mary Batson (Earth-S)
Mary Batson (New Earth)
Matrix (Pocket Universe)
Maxima
Mister Miracle (with the Anti-Life Equation)
Mongul I
Mongul II
Nathaniel Adam (New Earth)
Orion
Osiris (Amon Tomaz)
Plastic Man (when in skyscraper form)
Power Boy (New Earth)
Power Girl
Sodam Yat
Solomon Grundy
Superboy (Earth-One)
Superboy (Kon-El)
Superboy (Pocket Universe)
Superboy-Prime
Supergirl (Earth-One)
Supergirl (New Earth)
Superman (Earth-2)
Superman (Earth-15)
Superman (Earth-22)
Superman (Earth-30)
Superman (Earth-31)
Superman (Earth-One)
Superman (Earth-Two)
Superman (New Earth)
Superman (Post-Crisis)
Ultraman (Earth-3)
Ultraman (Earth-Three)
Ultraman (Qward)
William Batson (Earth-S)
William Batson (New Earth)
William Matthews (New Earth)
Cassandra Sandsmark (New Earth)
Wonder Woman (Earth-10)
Wonder Woman (Earth-15)
Wonder Woman (Earth-30)
Wonder Woman (Earth-34)
Zauriel
Zeus (New Earth)
All lanterns when using their rings.

(Note: Many characters' upper power and strength limits have varied greatly over the course of their written histories. Those in the 100+ range, can generally lift as much as 100,000 tons; such as Superman, Captain Marvel, and Darkseid.)

[say652]

so by these lifting tables and H.U. Major Power Supernatural Strength, a supernatural ps-100 would put you in the low tier of this chart with a lift of twenty five tons!!!!!

[PapaMambo]

so by these lifting tables and H.U. Major Power Supernatural Strength, a supernatural ps-100 would put you in the low tier of this chart with a lift of twenty five tons!!!!!

Pretty much.. Heroes has never scaled strength very well, which is both a blessing and a curse. There is NO way to get those cosmically superior strength type beings in Heroes without house ruling things. (I have seen rules for an additional level of Strength called Cosmic Strength which takes this into account though on other websites).

Heroes also doesn't do super speedsters justice either.. Sure we have Sonic Speed, Sonic Flight, Rocket Fists (Max speed Mach 11.82 or 9,000mph), APS Light (light speed travel, but you're intangible), Flight Space (Max Speed Mach 32 or 24,358mph in SPACE only), Rocket Charge, and Super Luminal Flight (which is about the fastest speed power there is, but no real control over it - essentially 15 Speed classes above light speed.) None of these is really comparable to the super speedsters in the Marvel or DC Universes - especially land speed. Flash can run faster than the speed of light - hell he can outrun death with his connection to the Speedforce, and the best we can do for land based characters is Mach 1 in HU.

For all HU's drawbacks though, it does many other things extremely well..

Personally I think that the Flash is one of the most powerful beings in the universe - even though his strength isn't up their with Supes or anything, his speed more than makes up for it.

[say652]

hey hey i was waiting for the if you take the major power gravity manipulation which by the rules would multiply this little 25 tons to 250tons palladium is back in the game.lol. i think that the gravity manipulation power should have a minor version increased lifting only.

[PapaMambo]

Honestly, I wish that Kev would rewrite the strength scales completely. The damage tables are just fine, but the lifting scales should scale higher.

I was creating a robot in game (a giant robot recovery type vehicle), and was dismayed to find that something like the spike and towline had a weight limit of 500 pounds only. I ended up swapping it out for the towline and grappling hook which had a weight limit of 5 tonnes, but this was a less than optimal solution for what I needed. A PS of 42 (superhuman) for a 22' tall robot that is supposed to be a repair and recovery unit means that it can lift a maximum of 12,600 pounds or 6.3 short tons or 5 metric tonnes - not a heck of a lot for a 22' tall behemoth. Supernatural PS should be an option for robots, (and cyborgs for that matter) especially giant robots over 10-12' tall..

[say652]

a house rule from way back where as damage remains unchanged robots(sorry not usable with power armor) add weight to there lift. so the original enforcer with a ps of 40 could lift 2 tons plus 19 tons or 21 tons. now this 20 foot tall robot was able to hang in fights with giant monsters. yes since the original book listed supernatural ps as being able to lift ps times 100 in our game robots and power armor also lifted ps times 100 but used the robotic ps damage tables. borgs also got to lift ps times 100 but used the bionic ps damage table. as more source books came out this was explained and i feel fixed with the listing of ex-ps,superhuman strength,and of course supernatural strength. in my gm's game this didnt change his strength rulings(it works this way because i say so,fear my gmpc type)

[Nightmask]

so by these lifting tables and H.U. Major Power Supernatural Strength, a supernatural ps-100 would put you in the low tier of this chart with a lift of twenty five tons!!!!!

Pretty much.. Heroes has never scaled strength very well, which is both a blessing and a curse. There is NO way to get those cosmically superior strength type beings in Heroes without house ruling things. (I have seen rules for an additional level of Strength called Cosmic Strength which takes this into account though on other websites).

Heroes also doesn't do super speedsters justice either.. Sure we have Sonic Speed, Sonic Flight, Rocket Fists (Max speed Mach 11.82 or 9,000mph), APS Light (light speed travel, but you're intangible), Flight Space (Max Speed Mach 32 or 24,358mph in SPACE only), Rocket Charge, and Super Luminal Flight (which is about the fastest speed power there is, but no real control over it - essentially 15 Speed classes above light speed.) None of these is really comparable to the super speedsters in the Marvel or DC Universes - especially land speed. Flash can run faster than the speed of light - hell he can outrun death with his connection to the Speedforce, and the best we can do for land based characters is Mach 1 in HU.

For all HU's drawbacks though, it does many other things extremely well..

Personally I think that the Flash is one of the most powerful beings in the universe - even though his strength isn't up their with Supes or anything, his speed more than makes up for it.

Actually most speedsters that weren't cosmic in Marvel are fairly in keeping with Heroes Unlimited. Running faster than the sound barrier wasn't that common and you didn't see anything close to 'run off the planet' fast until far more recently let alone approaching the standard for DC (i.e. near light speed).

[say652]

using the rifts south america book i was able to create an ellel sun demigod with a supernatural ps-250 only had like 5000mdc but takes one third damage from everytning except fire. a flying sunbolt shooting powerhouse of a villian with by this chart with a 75ton lift is tier three on the strength chart. not bad for an original character using palladium rules

[Jay05]

ok for a useless powerhouse how can we not mention NerdHulk from the marvel ultimates universe. Captain America took him out by kicking him in the wedding tackle. hulks strength and banners intellectual mind. he was so smart he felt a kick to the nads should hurt, so it did. then when fighting the major villian he was afraid to die. when they took away his anger they took away his edge.

The entire Ultimates verse was a pain that way. When they did the whole Hulk's body with Banner's mind in the mainstream Marvel verse it's worked much better.

[say652]

ok for a useless powerhouse how can we not mention NerdHulk from the marvel ultimates universe. Captain America took him out by kicking him in the wedding tackle. hulks strength and banners intellectual mind. he was so smart he felt a kick to the nads should hurt, so it did. then when fighting the major villian he was afraid to die. when they took away his anger they took away his edge.

The entire Ultimates verse was a pain that way. When they did the whole Hulk's body with Banner's mind in the mainstream Marvel verse it's worked much better.

when they did proffessor hulk it worked, well,but nerd hulk was reaching to say the least.lol. i feel the ultimate writers well, sucked rotten eggs in fact i feel so bad, i am sorry for the artists that had to draw that crap.

[Nightmask]

ok for a useless powerhouse how can we not mention NerdHulk from the marvel ultimates universe. Captain America took him out by kicking him in the wedding tackle. hulks strength and banners intellectual mind. he was so smart he felt a kick to the nads should hurt, so it did. then when fighting the major villian he was afraid to die. when they took away his anger they took away his edge.

The entire Ultimates verse was a pain that way. When they did the whole Hulk's body with Banner's mind in the mainstream Marvel verse it's worked much better.

when they did proffessor hulk it worked, well,but nerd hulk was reaching to say the least.lol. i feel the ultimate writers well, sucked rotten eggs in fact i feel so bad, i am sorry for the artists that had to draw that crap.

I've had the feeling that Ultimates was used more as a dumping ground for all the awful junk that was so awful that they wouldn't even approve for the main universe setting (and they've approved a LOT of truly awful stuff for Earth-616, like the rape retcon for Black Cat). Upped the gore and something of a take that at the fans or by the writers at the original setting by writing the worst dreck they could come up with (like cannibal Hulk and in your face incest for the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver with Wasp apparently treating Captain America as being outdated and prejudiced for finding it squicky). It was ironic that the Spider-man stuff was actually MORE upbeat and better than the original Spider-man (but then again quesada was driven to ensure the worst dreck went into the main Spider-man stories), complete with Jameson showing the character development to not only acknowledging Ultimate Spider-man as a hero but a crowning moment of heartwarming after he discovered Spider-man's secret ID he told the world he'd die to protect him and would never reveal what he learned. Then they killed him to replace him with his race-lifted replacement...

[say652]

i liked black spiderkid, but as a whole the ultimates sucked hairy ape***

[Nightmask]

And ultimately a more scaled back power level for comic characters makes them seem more heroic since they have to work for the victories they get. DC power levels get way too much of a mythological level, where you can't relate to them at all, and are expected to be in awe of their godlike power. It's an interesting dichotomy granted, but not one to relate to at all. Nightwing is a character easier to relate to than Batman because you can see his progression through cartoons and comics; Spider-Man is easier to relate to than Iron Man because while smart he's made far more mistakes than Tony who was born a prodigy and inherited a company. Nightcrawler was born with a serious physical appearance deficiency while Superman was born a sun god. Wonder Woman was sculpted by the gods and Daredevil was made blind by chemicals.

My two favorite characters and also are interesting contrasts are Raven and Scarlet Witch. I could go on a long rant about why they are two of the most interesting characters in comics, but I'll save that for another time. I think if there is a Marvel female that could hold her own in a starring comic book movie it's Wanda. I don't think Raven could hold together a DC movie though, I think after the obvious choice of Wonder Woman, the second best DC female to make a movie about is Batgirl...but in a Birds of Prey movie. Batgirl, Black Canary and Huntress make a good trio and it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to include Artemis in the team as well.

From what I've heard an attempt at a rebooted Wonder Woman TV series was attempted, but epic failed as she was written more like the Punisher instead of an actual hero.

A Scarlet Witch move or TV series would be interesting, going by I imagine her earlier probability-manipulating level of ability and not accessing the reality-warper power levels that were imbued into her by Chthon when she was born in place of the magnetic powers she was supposed to have from her father.

We could really use a good She-Hulk movie (too bad we never got to see one in the original Hulk TV series like was planned), a strong female hero and starts out an educated woman (a lawyer for those who don't know) prior to getting her powers from her transfusion from her cousin.

I'd love to see a Dazzler (original incarnation) movie, she was actually a law student herself due to the pressure of her father (so not the moron she is too often depicted as) and the idea of her being a reluctant hero who really just wants to sing and entertain would make for a good movie if handled well.

[Nightmask]

From what I've heard an attempt at a rebooted Wonder Woman TV series was attempted, but epic failed as she was written more like the Punisher instead of an actual hero.

A Scarlet Witch move or TV series would be interesting, going by I imagine her earlier probability-manipulating level of ability and not accessing the reality-warper power levels that were imbued into her by Chthon when she was born in place of the magnetic powers she was supposed to have from her father.

We could really use a good She-Hulk movie (too bad we never got to see one in the original Hulk TV series like was planned), a strong female hero and starts out an educated woman (a lawyer for those who don't know) prior to getting her powers from her transfusion from her cousin.

I'd love to see a Dazzler (original incarnation) movie, she was actually a law student herself due to the pressure of her father (so not the moron she is too often depicted as) and the idea of her being a reluctant hero who really just wants to sing and entertain would make for a good movie if handled well.

That Wonder Woman TV pilot was TERRIBLE, sheesh it's still painful to think about. I'd put Scarlet Witch in that middle of the road category that her powers aren't fully maximized, but someone like the High Evolutionary could see the potential of her powers and would worry about her going out of control. Since Magneto and Pietro are both jerks, they have no problem with her getting put in an asylum.

Glad I never saw that pilot, just hearing about it is painful enough. Much like hearing about the failed attempt at an American Live Action Sailor Moon that took Tokenism to new heights (seriously a wheelchair-bound member? Would have been at least as bad as the sequel to Ghostbusters with the Wheelchair-bound member who got everywhere when an olympic level handicapped athlete lacks the ability to get).

A She-Hulk movie would probably work best with Hulk having little to nothing to do with the overall movie. Otherwise she becomes a sidekick rather than her own character, and other than having a quick origin (Hulk is fighting someone like say U-Foes when she gets injured, and the only donor is Bruce and the gamma-blood turns her into Shulkie. We then get to see her adjust to being super strong and nearly invincible). An obvious villain would be the U-Foes, I just don't know if anyone knows enough about them to make them viable, since at the end it would probably be both of them against the U-Foes (Vapor, X-Ray, Vector and Ironclad are good villains though). Others like Leader, Titania and Absorbing Man (that duo would be especially tough to ignore), Thunderbolt Ross, Wendigo and AIM are all possibilities but don't really seem like She-Hulk rogues, other than Titania.

No reason She-Hulk would have to end up a sidekick (she certainly didn't in the comics, Banner was just there long enough to save her life from the Mobsters with a blood transfusion and move on), and can always use the abbreviated intro as was pulled for the rebooted Hulk, a compressed set of scenes to explain everything that happened to lead to his being turned into the Hulk and then jump into the movie where it was at that point.

I could see them going the Hancock route, no Abomination or other big bad but instead exploring her coming to grips with what she now is while dealing with more street level opponents (after all she is weaker than the Hulk so some well-armed thugs could be a threat earlier into her transformation before she matures).

Dazzler, well that's random (no more random than my Tigra movie blog though). You'd need an actress that can sing and dance as well as have charisma to play her. Finding a villain wouldn't be that tough I could easily see Deadpool being smitten with her or the Friends of Humanity that would think her dazzle powers are a form of mind control, and kind of play to pop music hysteria that happens from time to time. Taylor Swift would make a good Dazzler; she is pretty enough to be Dazzler while still being coy enough to know if she really is what she says she is. Pink is way too independent to be Dazzler but she would be pretty believable for being smart and headstrong and Katy Perry would also be a good choice, but she'd have to be blond.

A Dazzler movie would almost work best as a musical and that would seem really weird for a Marvel movie so I doubt it would ever happen. But I'd like it if it did.

Tigra would be nice too (the technology is matured enough to handle giving her believable fur and a tail, although the tail was a much later addition during her period with the West Coast Avengers). Provided they don't give her those horse-style feathered fur things around her wrists and ankles like she got in that one short-lived Avengers series. God that was awful. She fought Hydra early on and they'd be a good way of tying her to the overall Marvel Movieverse since surely there are enclaves of them still around.

[MikeM]

I don't believe I forgot Nova and Namorita (I was a big New Warriors fan)

The Richard Rider version anyway. When he joined the New Warriors he was their strong guy, and got a power life during the Annihilation story arcs. Course, he's dead now.

Don't know if Sam has the same strength augmentation

[Tor]

Superman(he's moved the moon more than once).

So what? All you have to do is overcome inertia, no? Or maybe some orbital momentum.

ANd he beat Hulk in the DC Vs marvel thing.

With strength? Source? Have been multiple DC vs Marvels.

Gladiator's as strong as he thinks he is(or something like that).

Source?

Thor is strongest, Hulk and Hercules are tied for second and Thing is fourth.

Where are you getting this information? Also wouldn't it be a tie for second AND third? Personally I don't buy this, I view Hulk as stronger than Thor, this is how it's usually presented.

Sasquatch is considered top ten in Marvel's strength listing, and Namor and She-Hulk are in there as well. And no one should leave Luke Cage off the list he's in the top ten as well.

That's another 4 people. That means there is only 2 slots left in the top ten. This list has to be bunk, we know full well that guys like Galactus and Surfer are stronger. Heck, I'll wager that Iron Man's armor is stronger than Luke Cage.

Superboy was shown throwing tanks around in Young Justice. If a tank rates 20 tons that's a good metric for strength level. That's the benchmark I'd set.

Ah but that isn't 'strength', that's "tactile telekinesis".

how could I forget? Maestro, the guy who kills everyone.

Hulk was already mentioned. It's hard enough without including alternate dimension/time chars.

Wendigo did square off toe to toe with the Hulk

Yes, but was the Hulk adequately mad for it to be impressive? Wolverine's squared off against him too. So have Hawkeye and Black Widow.

Doc Samson punched the Hulk so hard he knocked him unconscious in one issue.

Not necessarily just a matter of strength, rather a matter of timing and catching your opponent off-guard. If Hulk could brace for the bunch I'm pretty sure his neck muscles could break Samson's hand. But I imagine Samson to be quicker and more intelligent than madhulk.

The Hulk
Hercules
Strong Guy
Abomination
Thor
Juggernaut
Superman
Gladiator
Plutonian
Galactus
Odin
Rhino
Strong Guy
Colossus
The Thing
Sasquatch
She-Hulk
Namor a.k.a. Sub Mariner
Magni
Luke Cage
Maestro
Ironclad
Doc Samson
Tiger Shark
Ms. Marvel
Rogue
Titania
Wonder Woman
Hyperion
Beta Ray Bill
Red Norvell
Gilgamesh
Doomsday
Captain Marvel
Wendigo
Superboy
Kurse
Champion

Is this the order you're ranking them in? If so, then on what basis?

Champion.

You mean that guy who wussed out and wouldn't even battle Hulk or Thor, and who probably beat Thing through superior skill rather than raw strength? Then again, Reed's "power level greater than Galactus" comment is always unsettling.

list grows exponentially if you go including cosmic beings like Galactus, since you have to add in all the Celestials, Eternity, Death, Oblivion, Infinity, Anti-Monitor, etc.

Yeah and comparing them is so ridiculously hard... maybe we should limit it to 'earth native' supers. I like this because it means we can ditch Kal-El.

ms marvel,Rogue

Ugh, this is like saying Rogue has awesome optic blasts just like Cyclops. Copycats don't deserve mention even if they do manage to absorb powers indefinitely.

my favorite is the ever lovin blue eyed THING

I read a great essay about him that actually confronted the idea that Hulk MUST be stronger. It noted that Thing appears to get stronger not when he is angry, but rather when he is determined to protect people. It actually did a calculation based on feats, and when Thing held up the Golden Gate bridge cables to safe hundreds of people's lives, he exhibited more strength than Hulk EVER has.

For some reason when I think about this it makes me tear up.

Nobody even mentions Thing? Some guy did the calculations once and the strength it took for Thing to hold up the golden gate bridge actually outdoes every feat of strength that Hulk has ever attempted. Thing is the strongest there is. But he is fueled by grit and determination to protect others rather than rage, so his full power only comes out while protecting people, as opposed to destroying things.

I have to beg to disagree. Hulk held a mountain over his head.. Thing couldn't come close. Jus' sayin.. [/quote]That depends on the size of the mountain. Holding the GGB could be harder than pulling up a small mountain.

Also another issue here we are overlooking is the specificity of feets. Hulk holding up a mountain is pressing power (deltoid, triceps, etc) analagous to the top of a military press. Thing holding the bridge cables is pulling power (grip, biceps, lats, back muscles) analagous to doing a row.

We are used to treating strength as some single attribute, we have a single PS attribute, we assume heroes stronger in one aspect are stronger in all, but realistically that may not be the case. Sometimes the guy who presses 200lbs overhead can only bent-over row 100lbs, and sometimes the guy who bent-over rows 200lbs can only press 100lbs overhead.

Seeing as how there are so many people to compare, it would be more interesting, I think, if we compared feats based on narrower forms of specificity.

Hulk didn't hold up an entire mountain (but still quite a bit more than Thing can that's for sure)

Are you sure? How do you know how much the mountain weighed? How do you know how this compares to Thing's greatest feats?

We make excuses when Hulk fails like "he wasn't mad enough" or "he wasn't ready". We should look at Thing's feats in similar contexts. Did Thing have enough on the line to work up his determination to use his full abilities? Thing can be pretty lazy at times, so if he fails during some brawl or when he's the only guy in danger, whether or not that qualifies as limit-determinor is arguable.

by WWH he was moving tectonic plates around to fix the planet.

Can we quantify how much that took?

http://www.incrediblehulkonline.com/secretwarsstrength.html Secret Wars #4 baby.. That looks like a mountain to me..

Whether or not it's a mountain is quite irrelevant at this point. We don't even need to know, because the title specifically tells us it's 150 billion tons.

As for what lift this is, it looks kinda similar to doing a good morning or a back squat, so that might be a good basis to compare his leg/torso pressing strength to others. Let's keep in mind he's not balancing this on his hand though. So we shouldn't compare this to other people's hand-pressing strength when lifting free weights. Based on the slope of the right of the picture (next to Shulkie) portions of the mountain seem to have collapsed except that directly around Hulk, so I would say it is the PORTION of the mountain he is supporting which is 150bill. The entire mountain may be something like 900 billion, but it lacked the integrity to hold together under it's full weight, so only the portion that hasn't smashed around them is what Hulk is holding. What he is lifting is not a free-weight at this point (the collapsed portion stabilize it) which allows Hulk to lift more.

We can't ignore variables like posture, how someone is lifting or statically supporting a load matters hugely in how their strength is applied to it. Just because Hulk can sorta squat 150 billion tones doesn't mean he can overhead press it with his hands, for example.

When you read the actual comic (since Covers Always Lie) you'll see that they were in a fortuitous pocket under the mountain that Molecule Man dropped on them and he'd been lucky to get well braced to help hold that pocket open. He wasn't even remotely holding up millions or billions of tons of rock.

I dunno, the phrasing kinda implies that he is supporting that much weight just to keep the pocket open.

he's smashed asteroids, cracked through Onslaught's armor, and held continents together

Unless we can quantify this, or compare it to situations where other heroes have failed to do such things, I don't see the usefulness of these feats. Hulk cracking the armor when Colossus fails, for example, is evidence Hulk throws a mightier punch, but it doesn't help us compare him to anyone who didn't have a crack at it.

I`ve included the strength scales here for both Marvel and DC for characters who can lift in excess of 25 tonnes..

From http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale

And this is from http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Strength_Scale

I'm going to call into question these scales. While the numbers attributed to characters list references, I can't trust them unless I can actually read all of them to see their contexts. Knowing that someone 'lifted' something doesn't tell me how they lifted it.

Example: making this up, but if Iron Man lifted a 10ton car with 1 hand, it would be more impressive than Spider-Man lifting a 15ton car with 2 hands.

I just remembered Juggernaut.

whose invulneribility was nothing to the mystic powered gladiator.its all basically here

Relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYRi7jygVnQ&t=40s

[PapaMambo]

@Tor - not going to quote your entire message, but aren't you the little pessimist?

I realize that any or all of these heroes/villains strengths can be disputed for one reason or another. But I think that the metrics that we use in day to day life give us a pretty good idea as to who the strongest supers are.

I don't think there is much dispute as to who the heavy hitters are. The order maybe, but all of those on the list(s) are the strongest in their respective comic universes. Supes may not be the strongest, but he's orders of magnitude above almost anyone else in the DC universe (can't think of many who can match his shown feats of strength) - Darkseid, Doomsday maybe, but not too many others (I'm not a HUGE DC fan, so hard for me to come up with other examples of people who come close to Supes).

Hulk is the one hero in the Marvel universe who's strength is really unquantifiable. He gets stronger the angrier he gets. He's shown just a small fraction of his abilities (strength wise), with really no upper cap. Galactus or the Celestials may be stronger, although I have never witnessed it.

Maybe Marvel and DC should do another crossover - the Superhero Olympics!! Strength versus strength, Speed Versus Speed (separating ground speed from airspeed) etc. Settle the arguments once and for all. I would pay for that issue.

[Mercdog]

Since I brought one of my Official Marvel Handbooks (volume 7) with me today, and things are a little slow, here are the Rank 7 (ie. Capable of Lifting in 100 Tons or more) listings.

Maestro (Evil Alternate Future Hulk)
Magus (Evil Alternate Future Adam Warlock)
Mahkizmo (Fantastic Four Foe)
Meggan (Captain Britains wife. When drawing on external energies.)
Mephisto (Hey, he's the Devil. He can lift what he wants.)
Missing Link (Old Hulk sparring partner)
Morg (Former Herald of Galactus)

So out of the 100 or so entries in the book, those 7 are the strongest.

[Nightmask]

Hulk didn't hold up an entire mountain (but still quite a bit more than Thing can that's for sure)

Are you sure? How do you know how much the mountain weighed? How do you know how this compares to Thing's greatest feats?

We make excuses when Hulk fails like "he wasn't mad enough" or "he wasn't ready". We should look at Thing's feats in similar contexts. Did Thing have enough on the line to work up his determination to use his full abilities? Thing can be pretty lazy at times, so if he fails during some brawl or when he's the only guy in danger, whether or not that qualifies as limit-determinor is arguable.

Yes I'm quite sure, the Thing has a very finite level of strength, the Hulk does not. I'm also sure Hulk wasn't holding up a mountain because when you actually read the comic you see it's made quite clear that he isn't.

by WWH he was moving tectonic plates around to fix the planet.

Can we quantify how much that took?

No, we really can't nor do we have to as the amount of mass contained in continental plates is obviously orders of magnitude greater than that contained in a single mountain residing on said plate.

When you read the actual comic (since Covers Always Lie) you'll see that they were in a fortuitous pocket under the mountain that Molecule Man dropped on them and he'd been lucky to get well braced to help hold that pocket open. He wasn't even remotely holding up millions or billions of tons of rock.

I dunno, the phrasing kinda implies that he is supporting that much weight just to keep the pocket open.

The phrasing on the cover doesn't imply that, it shows him with the other heroes in a pocket trying to hold up some rock and says he's beneath a hundred and fifty billion tons NOT even remotely does the phrasing imply or state that he's holding up one hundred and fifty billion tons of rock just that he's under it and he's not happy. It's merely stating his location, and as I repeat when you read the actual comic it's made quite clear that he's not even remotely holding up that amount of rock.

[Mercdog]

Just my opinion, but I think the top 3 strongest heroes in Marvel are;

1. Hulk
2. Hercules
3. Thor

Note that I'm only talking strength. Thor's got more raw power than Herc, plus that nifty hammer and girdle/belt/armor that increases his strength. But IMHO, without the foreign objects, Herc's got Thor beat for muscle.

[Nightmask]

Just my opinion, but I think the top 3 strongest heroes in Marvel are;

1. Hulk
2. Hercules
3. Thor

Note that I'm only talking strength. Thor's got more raw power than Herc, plus that nifty hammer and girdle/belt/armor that increases his strength. But IMHO, without the foreign objects, Herc's got Thor beat for muscle.

Which is about right. Hercules after all is the God of Strength for his pantheon and strong though he is Thor isn't, even for the MU they hold off and leave that to his son (albeit only in alternate futures and parallel earths ). Hulk meanwhile runs canonically as having no upper limit, or at least his only limit is how much rage he can feel as a result of something and even his general level of 'Hulk Smash!' puts him rivaling Hercules even before he powers up.

[Nightmask]

How come Goku or Vegeta did not make the list? More to the point why didn't Gogeta or Vegeto make the list?

Because they aren't really in the same league as the rest of this list for on, not when it comes to pure physical strength. When Goku was training in Limbo with the other great fighters he was shown with training weights on his wrists and ankles, when they were each augmented to 10 tons each he could barely hover in place and had to transform to move again, the heavy hitters on this list are naturally capable of handling 100+ tons. Goku, Vegeta, and combinations of same are getting by as much on energy boosts to their attacks from their Chi and using Telekinesis to lift things than using raw physical strength so while strong aren't actually that strong compared to others outside the setting.

[Nightmask]

I remember an episode of He-man, where he pushed the moon on his planet into different orbit. Does that put He-man on the list?

Well if one includes stuff like that then She-Ra as well as her horse qualify, as does Popeye (who sometimes managed to even drag around comets WITHOUT his spinach).

[say652]

in that case where is Mighty Mouse?

[Nightmask]

Don't you mean where's Bam-Bam?

[say652]

I think we should move the discussion to a more palladium based format, like the heroes unlimited forums page.lol