The Kittani's rightful place?

[Shadow Wyrm]

Do you feel the Kittani have their rightful position in the Splugorth civilization. They are a race of epic warrior's, brillant scientists, and loyal minions. Yet, they are still a second tier minion after 38,000 years of service. Shouldn't they be elite minions by now?

What do you think?

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

They've gotta wait until their 50,000th year of minionhood to have a chance of moving up a rung of the ladder. It's in the splugorth management handbook.

[Shadow Wyrm]

They've gotta wait until their 50,000th year of minionhood to have a chance of moving up a rung of the ladder. It's in the splugorth management handbook.

That's all you got, shame on you.

[Shadow Wyrm]

If a change were to be made to their standing, what place should they be in. I have changed them in my games canon, they a take a place equal too, but just under the Kydian.

[Shadow Wyrm]

Technology will always take second place to Magic. I think the Kittani are too ambitious for their own good to warrant them equal standing with the Kydian. I wouldn't want a second Kittani Empire to come out of nowhere.

I not saying put them above the Kydians, just more of a leadership position, under the propper conditions. Kittani as the officer core in the Sploogy armies for one. The Kydians numbers, which are way to low, would keep them as the backbone of Splugorth society.

[taalismn]

Kittani frustration is one of the rather unhighlighted tensions in Splugorth society. Yeah, after 38,000 years, they're still middle-management chumps. And every time they complain, the Splugorth, used to the LONG picture, haul out that damn video presentation of how the Kittani were getting ranged over by the Mechanoids before the Splugorth showed up, with the Splugorth smugly folding their tentacles and reminding the Kittani "Hey, that's 38,000 years you could have been EXTINCT, not working away in a so-so job rank with the leisure to complain! Remember the LAST time you got smug about your prowess? Oh, wait! The video's still up!"

That, and it's a combination of what amounts to cultural breeding. After so long the Splugorth have subtly manipulated the Kittani to accept their role in Splugorth society; the Kittani wind up having a blind spot in their perceptions that they could be anywhere ELSE doing anything else than what they've been doing. That includes not seriously studying magic, nit rocking the organizational chart, and doing anything that would re-arrange their place in society. THe Kittani would resent the hell out of you if you implied that they'd been bred like cattle in this respect and they'd contend they're fully free-willed and even disgruntled about the conditions of the OP.
However, the Splugorth have the Kittani figured out, and know what buttons to push and what treats to toss the Kittani. The Kittani are sort of like the dog you got in your house; sure, they're faster than you, and they got teeth, and they probably could own your house if they went cujo on you, but with a whistle and a 'sit!', 'stay!', or 'come here, boy!', that dog obeys you without questioning if maybe he SHOULD have ore authority in your house. And if the dog disobeys? He gets scolded, or swatted, or in the extreme cases, put down.

[taalismn]

They've gotta wait until their 50,000th year of minionhood to have a chance of moving up a rung of the ladder. It's in the splugorth management handbook.

That's all you got, shame on you.

Shame? You clearly have not seen the Splugorth franchise policy binders. THey're deliberately written and encrypted in multiple layers of mystic writings that make it well-nigh impossible for anybody not an alien intelligence with a multi-dimensional constitution, perception, and thought-processes to casually access and read. Telling an underling to 'see for yourself, it's in the binders' is pretty much sentencing that underling to die of frustration, old age, and/or uncomprehending insanity before they can actually get anywhere in understanding them.

[taalismn]

It's what makes the Splugorth empires so staggeringly ALIEN and frightening to behold by people like us. Our own civilizations barely last a thousand years, and by the time they expire, they look nothing like what they did at the beginning(look at the Romans). The idea of a civilization like the Splugorth having not only cultural cohesion and a degree of set-in-stone organizational stagnation for MUCH longer than that, boggles the human mind. And when we look at the constituent elements...yes, how can folks put up with being stuck in a pigeonhole for 38,000 years?! INCOMPREHENSIBLE!
Human management experts, sociologists, and corporate execs would sacrifice one of their testicles to learn such secrets of management! It's soul-suckingly frightening! And the arsenic icing on the cake is the fact that the Splugorth society is EVIL. Self-serving evil!
SURELY it should have fallen apart due to employee dissatisfaction and dissent long ago. The fact that it hasn't(or at least not to the best of anybody's knowledge) makes all the more mind-boggling. And that conjures up all manner of Lovecraftian horrors to explain what keeps everybody in line.

[Shadow Wyrm]

It's what makes the Splugorth empires so staggeringly ALIEN and frightening to behold by people like us. Our own civilizations barely last a thousand years, and by the time they expire, they look nothing like what they did at the beginning(look at the Romans). The idea of a civilization like the Splugorth having not only cultural cohesion and a degree of set-in-stone organizational stagnation for MUCH longer than that, boggles the human mind. And when we look at the constituent elements...yes, how can folks put up with being stuck in a pigeonhole for 38,000 years?! INCOMPREHENSIBLE!
Human management experts, sociologists, and corporate execs would sacrifice one of their testicles to learn such secrets of management! It's soul-suckingly frightening! And the arsenic icing on the cake is the fact that the Splugorth society is EVIL. Self-serving evil!
SURELY it should have fallen apart due to employee dissatisfaction and dissent long ago. The fact that it hasn't(or at least not to the best of anybody's knowledge) makes all the more mind-boggling. And that conjures up all manner of Lovecraftian horrors to explain what keeps everybody in line.

If God lived in the middle of you town or just knew God did exsist, you would be better behaved.

Since the minions tend to worship the Splugorth they tend too obey them, thats my opinion.

[Talavar]

It's what makes the Splugorth empires so staggeringly ALIEN and frightening to behold by people like us. Our own civilizations barely last a thousand years, and by the time they expire, they look nothing like what they did at the beginning(look at the Romans). The idea of a civilization like the Splugorth having not only cultural cohesion and a degree of set-in-stone organizational stagnation for MUCH longer than that, boggles the human mind. And when we look at the constituent elements...yes, how can folks put up with being stuck in a pigeonhole for 38,000 years?! INCOMPREHENSIBLE!
Human management experts, sociologists, and corporate execs would sacrifice one of their testicles to learn such secrets of management! It's soul-suckingly frightening! And the arsenic icing on the cake is the fact that the Splugorth society is EVIL. Self-serving evil!
SURELY it should have fallen apart due to employee dissatisfaction and dissent long ago. The fact that it hasn't(or at least not to the best of anybody's knowledge) makes all the more mind-boggling. And that conjures up all manner of Lovecraftian horrors to explain what keeps everybody in line.

If God lived in the middle of you town or just knew God did exsist, you would be better behaved.

Since the minions tend to worship the Splugorth they tend too obey them, thats my opinion.

Exactly! To the Kittani, the Splugorth they serve is basically their god, and the higher ranking minions god's chosen. Some may still rebel, but I think the society as a whole is pretty much controlled, both overtly, by the Splugorth police state, and indirectly, through societal controls like that.

[Shadow Wyrm]

It's what makes the Splugorth empires so staggeringly ALIEN and frightening to behold by people like us. Our own civilizations barely last a thousand years, and by the time they expire, they look nothing like what they did at the beginning(look at the Romans). The idea of a civilization like the Splugorth having not only cultural cohesion and a degree of set-in-stone organizational stagnation for MUCH longer than that, boggles the human mind. And when we look at the constituent elements...yes, how can folks put up with being stuck in a pigeonhole for 38,000 years?! INCOMPREHENSIBLE!
Human management experts, sociologists, and corporate execs would sacrifice one of their testicles to learn such secrets of management! It's soul-suckingly frightening! And the arsenic icing on the cake is the fact that the Splugorth society is EVIL. Self-serving evil!
SURELY it should have fallen apart due to employee dissatisfaction and dissent long ago. The fact that it hasn't(or at least not to the best of anybody's knowledge) makes all the more mind-boggling. And that conjures up all manner of Lovecraftian horrors to explain what keeps everybody in line.

If God lived in the middle of you town or just knew God did exsist, you would be better behaved.
Don't forget that the Kittani are a free people within the Splugorth empire, as long as they are loyal.
Since the minions tend to worship the Splugorth they tend too obey them, thats my opinion.

Exactly! To the Kittani, the Splugorth they serve is basically their god, and the higher ranking minions god's chosen. Some may still rebel, but I think the society as a whole is pretty much controlled, both overtly, by the Splugorth police state, and indirectly, through societal controls like that.

[ShadowLogan]

I not saying put them above the Kydians, just more of a leadership position, under the propper conditions. Kittani as the officer core in the Sploogy armies for one. The Kydians numbers, which are way to low, would keep them as the backbone of Splugorth society.

They sort of have that already with regard to space fleets. DB#13 pg69 "Therefore, in space, it is the Kittani who have power over the Kydians." Highlord/Conservator still above them. Also mentions Kittani have their word as law on the ships, with only a Highlord, Conservator, or SI being able to overrule them.

Kittani Civil War, with the senior races (including Spynncryth) being told politely to stay the hell out of it, or find out what total warfare with Phase World level technology is really like. It's an internal matter they will handle on their own, for their own honor. The one side sees their honor tied to the Splugorth and Splynncryth, while the other side sees that their honor is tied to breaking free and taking their own place in the universe as a power in their own right.

Something to consider, though not quite a "civil war" aspect. How many Kittani Refugee Fleets existed, and how many did the Splorgoth make contact with? There might be KRFs out there that did not form an aliance with the Splorgoth and who might have escape the Mechanoids on their own. Text in WB#2 is unclear on this, only referring to a Kittani Armada so "free Kittani" might still exit somewhere.

Could have a Kittani on Kittani war, only the one side with 38k years of tech advancement (unless some time anomaly is involved) vs 38k years of near stagnation (IIRC) coupled with Magic support.

Alterans/BWW also confuse me, since they don't need the Splugorth either really. There HAS to be entire sects of them that want to be free, or are free, or were able to break free a long time prior. Whats the point of serving the Splugorth if it takes ten times as long as it took humanity to develop to get any sort of respect from their Masters?

WB#2 pg50 ~25% "hate their captivity and defy, fight or try to escape whenever the opportunity avails itself" with regard to the BWW. It comes across as an unorganized faction though.

[Grell]

Do you feel the Kittani have their rightful position in the Splugorth civilization. They are a race of epic warrior's, brillant scientists, and loyal minions. Yet, they are still a second tier minion after 38,000 years of service. Shouldn't they be elite minions by now?

What do you think?

Aren't they also hyper ambitious? I always thought that while they serve a useful purpose, their ambitions provide a reason to keep them from elite status.

[Shadow Wyrm]

Could have a Kittani on Kittani war, only the one side with 38k years of tech advancement (unless some time anomaly is involved) vs 38k years of near stagnation (IIRC) coupled with Magic support.

Any time the Splugoth fight each other the minions fight and kill each other. How do they deel with that? They do, and the minions are still loyal.

[taalismn]

Could have a Kittani on Kittani war, only the one side with 38k years of tech advancement (unless some time anomaly is involved) vs 38k years of near stagnation (IIRC) coupled with Magic support.

Any time the Splugoth fight each other the minions fight and kill each other. How do they deel with that? They do, and the minions are still loyal.

"Our fortunes are tied to that of our lord. If IT prospers, WE prosper. If we fight well enough, our place will be recognized when our lord reaps the rewards of his victory. The losers will only reap slavery and death. That is the way of things, the law of the megaversal jungle. THose other minions know this truism as well."

They're like employees of exclusive and no-holds barred corporations. You don't feel any compassion for the mailboy of that company your own just bought out and dismantled for its assets, do you? No, you wonder "Does this mean I can get a corner office and a new swivel; seat?".

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Rather than seeing the Kittani as second-class citizens of the various Splugorth empires, perhaps it would be better to view them as living among the few privileged races in the society with upward mobility. After all, they almost certainly entered into Splugorth service with much less status than they currently enjoy. Another few thousand years and they might end up among the elite.

[Shadow Wyrm]

Rather than seeing the Kittani as second-class citizens of the various Splugorth empires, perhaps it would be better to view them as living among the few privileged races in the society with upward mobility. After all, they almost certainly entered into Splugorth service with much less status than they currently enjoy. Another few thousand years and they might end up among the elite.

Sure their place was lower, but they entered it willingly. Splyncryth and the Kittani stuck a deal that seems to of satifide both sides for over 30,000 years.

[eliakon]

personally I see the Kittani as the sort to say "yah it sucks, but a deals a deal and we dont welch on our word of honor." And then take their frusterations out on the next bunch of PCs (or Atlanteans, or escaped slaves, or......) that they run across. And they work hard, and hope. Knowing that the Splugorth remember things, good and bad, and that they can improve thier lot with proof and time.....and that time to an imortal being is going to be a loooonnnngggg time to the mundanes.

[taalismn]

personally I see the Kittani as the sort to say "yah it sucks, but a deals a deal and we dont welch on our word of honor." And then take their frusterations out on the next bunch of PCs (or Atlanteans, or escaped slaves, or......) that they run across. And they work hard, and hope. Knowing that the Splugorth remember things, good and bad, and that they can improve thier lot with proof and time.....and that time to an imortal being is going to be a loooonnnngggg time to the mundanes.

Exactly. And if the short-lives get too uppity, well, the Splugorth can alway trot out the Lessons(or other 'example' species) to show what they can do with magic/biowizardry. Can you imagine what the Splugorth would do to a species like the Kittani is they got too full of themselves? Start with paring away their intelligence, but if you want to retain their technical usefulness, make them idiot-savants, with little or no mental resistance to outside direction, take away their physical prowess, turn them into wimps...basically big-skulled, small-bodied drooling technical geniuses who need help changing their own diapers....