Pick a second school/branch of magic?

[Glistam]

In the campaign I'm currently playing in I've recently discovered that my Temporal Wizard could gain access to a whole new branch of magic, and start learning and casting spells from that discipline. This is essentially a potential goal that was offered as a part of the story and campaign, and is still some ways off from being available. I was told that just about anything could be "fair game," from across the Megaverse and even Rifter material. That feels like a lot of options and should this materialize I don't want to waste this opportunity.

But I'm having a hard time deciding on a final choice - so I tought I'd come here and ask for some opinions from others.

If you were playing a mage who already had the ability to learn and cast invocations, and were given an opportunity to start also learning from any other branch of magic in the Megaverse, including Rifter material, what would you choose, and why?

[Nightmask]

That's a toughy, it'd be a toss-up between Fleshsculpting magic from the Nightbane setting or Wu Shih magic from Mystic China. Fleshsculpting grants some impressive spells of healing and also quite effective for concealment and offense and Wu Shih have a few helpful spells you just can't get anywhere else.

[Alrik Vas]

Are invocations just the 1-15th spells in the main book?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Are invocations just the 1-15th spells in the main book?

Partally correct. the invocations level 1-15 in the RUE main book are incomplete. you need the book of magic for the full list of rifts invocational magic.

but even that's not complete. Palladium fantasy, nightbane, for example, have "invocational" spells that are relativly rare and unkown off of those worlds but common there. and there's potental for endless others.

and then there's specialty subschools. Necromancy magic is invocational magic, but costs 2x the PPE if you arn't a specialist necromancer.

"Invocational" magic is essentially "Generic magic that isn't reliant on a specific principle". Specialty magic, such as fleshsculpting, chi magic, ocean magic, ect, are all reliant on a specific force or cosmic principle.

at least, that's my rule of thumb. it's not well defined so there's probablly exceptions here and there, such as blue flame magic, an oddly specific elemental force that is unrelated to elemental fire magic, but oddly, is learnable by every magic class regardless of school.

[glitterboy2098]

one thing to keep in mind is what you want to do with your magic. as a temporal wizard you have a particular set of advantages and disadvantages with your magic.
do you want to pick a 2nd field that reinforces your advantages (more spells with a time/dimension focus?) or fills in some of your weaknesses (more offensive oriented for example?)

[Grand Paladin]

I agree with gb2098 here- you should think about what you want to accomplish/what the goals are with this additional branch of magic for your Temporal Wizard. Off the top of my head if you are trying to augment what the Temporal Wizard can do, then you might want to look at Spatial Magic from the Rifter. If more offensive/battle capabilities are what you need, you should also review the Rifter for the Battle Mage and their magic(that right, right?? ). You can make the case for Techno-Wizardry, Shifting (wow what a combo), and Necormancy. Want to go off the beaten path- you could try Diabolism from Palladium Fantasy, or Space Magic from Fleets of the Three Galaxies.

It'd be interesting to see what you decide on and what the rationale is.

[glitterboy2098]

if you can pull it off, Warlock Elemental magic would give you some very potent power. warlock spells usually cannot be learned, they are technically granted to warlock's by whatever entity governs the elemental plane in question (air, water, earth, or fire). but their spells only go to level 7,and aby level 7 you can reshape mountains, summon up massive storms, and so on.

[kaid]

Warlock would be my choice as well if it an option. Adding the superior combat spells warlocks have to a temporal wizard would be pretty darn potent indeed. You have access to all normal invocations via temporal wizards and elemental magics via warlock and still have the temporal wizard spells as well. Biggest problem would be choosing what spell to cast as your list would be pretty huge.

[Zamion138]

Necromancy is great if you dont have an alimnet that clashes. Or stone magic as good way to round him out.
I like blue flame for its oddity but there is not alot of spells there....elemental magic is rugged combat wise but its more than learning it you gotta be in tune with your nature focus or what not.

[kaid]

Yup that is why I said if it was allowed. One problem with a lot of different magic types is they are pretty specific to background/mental affinity which is why you don't see to many dual caster types.

If warlock was not allowed I would likely go techno wizard. Does not give you access to new spells but you now have a huge amount of spells to work with and really solid ability to make nifty toys for you and your group which is always appreciated.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip...
If you were playing a mage who already had the ability to learn and cast invocations, and were given an opportunity to start also learning from any other branch of magic in the Megaverse, including Rifter material, what would you choose, and why?

So...if I was a LLW what sort of magic would I specilty magic would I want to branch out into?

Space magic because it is just another set of Invocations, and I don't have to convert the spell to an invocation thus adding 5 levels and not adding 150% to the PPE cost.

[kaid]

snip...
If you were playing a mage who already had the ability to learn and cast invocations, and were given an opportunity to start also learning from any other branch of magic in the Megaverse, including Rifter material, what would you choose, and why?

So...if I was a LLW what sort of magic would I specilty magic would I want to branch out into?

Space magic because it is just another set of Invocations, and I don't have to convert the spell to an invocation thus adding 5 levels and not adding 150% to the PPE cost.

Shifter/techno wizard/space magic/ocean magic would all be pretty painless additions pretty much just expanding your base numbers of spells.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Kaid, unless you mean to change class to one of those classes to shifter/TW/Ocean wizard then you are not getting the concept of the OP. Which was to learn new magic w/o changing class. (at least that is how I read it.)

Shifters do not have a special magic type called Shifter magic.
TW's just build magic items out of tech shells.
And Ocean magic is not available to common magic mages.

[Witchcraft]

For the record -- Glistam cannot take another class's abilities but he may EVENTUALLY study another branch of magic (living flame, necromancy, spatial, laser, ludicrous, etc.)

[Shark_Force]

hmmm... i'll vote for nazca line drawing ^^

[Nekira Sudacne]

where's Arken war magic?

[Zamion138]

Paradox magic can be learned by temporal wizards already i believe

[Zamion138]

Oooohhh if were gonna pull from rifters then blood magic is kinda down right brutal

[Zamion138]

By the way......blood magic i wanted to re read........anyone know wich rifter its in

[Glistam]

I'm currently leaning heavily towards Spatial magic - I like the discount that many of the spells the character employs regularly would enjoy. Don't get me wrong, branching out into Combat wouldn't be a bad move for the character either, but I haven't found a solid discipline I like for that. Since the decision is still a ways off I'm not rushing into this. I like the suggestion of Fleshsculpting and Mystic China Chi-Magic. I've also looked through the list of Dwoemer Mage spells, and found a lot of goodies in there. Really, looking around, there's few magical disciplines which don't have at least a few good spells or reasons for choosing them. The more I browse, the harder it becomes to narrow it down. Everything is on the table here - Elemental magic, Chaos Magic, Blue Flame Magic, Tattoo Magic, Bio-Wizardry(!)... the list goes on. If it's in a Palladium main book, supplement, or Rifter, it's fair game. Life Force Magic, Shadow Magic, Biomancy, Mirror Magic, Cloud Magic, Shaman Magic, Blood Magic, etcetera...

Blood Magic was Rifter #2 I believe... Then a later Rifter offered additional spells, but I don't recall which one. Have you tried the Rifter index?

I appreciate the thoughts so far of everyone who's responded. Hearing what others would do and why (especially the why!) helps to bring attention to options I hadn't thought of (like the Nightbane ones), and helps to eliminate options (War Magic seems all right, but has some pretty nasty side-effects).

Magic the character can already technically learn and use isn't off the table, it's just not up for first consideration. Temporal Magic, Necromancy, Space Magic, Nazcan Line Drawings, Dwoemer Magic, Blue Flame Magic, Paradox Shaman Magic, and others I'm likely not thinking of right now, are all magics the character can currently learn (albeit at either reduced effectiveness, or increased cost). BUT maybe there's a benefit to learning these disciplines separately, so as to use them at full power? Lots of options!

[Giant2005]

Diabolism.
A Permanence Ward + Temporal and Invocational Magic = One GM showing deep regret for his generosity.

[Shark_Force]

temporal wizards and raiders can't learn nazca line magic. or rather, they can... in the sense that they can learn a single drawing. so technically, yes... you *can* learn nazcan line magic without having it as your second branch of magic... in practice, it's not exactly covering even remotely the range of things you can do with nazcan line magic.

it synergizes very well with a temporal wizard because you can carry around objects with the drawings you need stored in dimensional pockets. you can haul around as many "energy jars" as you want. you can haul around drawings for summoning various animals and monsters according to your needs. your ability to travel to various dimensions means you'll have lots of knowledge of various creatures to use for your monster and animal drawings, the pattern of control lets you create traps, the draught of health combined with an effect that reduces the passage of time (like, say... a time capsule) can give you the ability to store a nigh-infinite amount of healing potions. combine the pattern of wounding with that same time capsule spell, and you can have a weapon stockpile ready to go at a moment's notice.

also because quite frankly, between all the different flavours of invocation magic and other stuff already available to temporal wizards, i don't think you particularly need an incredibly versatile selection.

warlock magic, you can probably already access by summoning elementals, btw. obviously, it's not as direct, but it is an option.

[Witchcraft]

This may sound a little...meh, in the wake of all the fine suggestions but...

chaos magic from the Chaos Earth spell (blue-line magic had a lot of neat abilities) and combat magic from merc adventures I think...both super useful. If it wasn't either of those two it'd have to be diabolism and following that up with circles...maybe dweomer magic.

With so many choices why not -- instead of choosing the one that makes your character most powerful -- choose the one that makes the most SENSE for the character from an RP perspective.

[Zamion138]

Thats a good point whats your character interested in?
Whats your role in the party?
Is their anouther caster already or soon?

[Glistam]

What IS the character's role in the party? That's a good question. Easier to answer is that the character is Unprincipled, with leanings towards good. That takes a lot of the more evil, or even questionable, magics off of the table for him from a RP perspective. But I'm more interested in what others would do in a similar situation, rather than what others think my character should do. I'm pretty set on Spacial magic - it will probably take either some interesting suggestions and reasons in this thread, a serious chat with the GM about how this will all ultimate all work out (if at all), or some game-related insight in order to change my mind at this point.

[flatline]

The biggest weakness of Invocations is quality healing spells. What type of magic would best cover that gap?

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

The biggest weakness of Invocations is quality healing spells. What type of magic would best cover that gap?

--flatline

Biomancy, especially with the lemurian gene spells. While expensive, the Reconstruction spell completely resets a life form to what it's DNA says should be, undoing any and all injury, implantation, chemical damage. even magical modifications are undone. Full conversion cyborgs are restored to perfect flesh and blood bodies, juicers are given their full lifespans back and all chemical damage undone (no detox or penalties whatsoever), and even bio-wizard modification is completely removed and undone. the only things not changed are mutations, sinse those are part of the DNA now.

[kaid]

Oooohhh if were gonna pull from rifters then blood magic is kinda down right brutal

Sounds like blood magic may be appearing in the new vampire book as well if they can ever get that thing out the door (fingers crossed it goes to printer this week)

[Shark_Force]

The biggest weakness of Invocations is quality healing spells. What type of magic would best cover that gap?

--flatline

imo... herbalism

which, incidentally, offers some other rather useful abilities as well. there is, however, an awful lot of overlap (and i don't have access to lemuria to see the new biomancy spells, which may very well put herbalism to shame).

[say652]

for your second group of spell magic do you get the spellcasters abilities also? if so i would go with mystic,adding a few useful psionic healing powers would help i am sure plus with the other useful mystic abilities a temporal mystic would definately be a force to be feared or if abilities are given a temporal shifter would be most nasty especially with a blood lizard familiar.

[Zamion138]

for your second group of spell magic do you get the spellcasters abilities also? if so i would go with mystic,adding a few useful psionic healing powers would help i am sure plus with the other useful mystic abilities a temporal mystic would definately be a force to be feared or if abilities are given a temporal shifter would be most nasty especially with a blood lizard familiar.

Well if hes going to get more than just their arcana, then i think the mystic knights type of mystic would be much cooler/versitile.

[Shadow Wyrm]

Dweomer magic/mage Rifter 17. Great school for a Temp. Wiz.

[kaid]

The biggest weakness of Invocations is quality healing spells. What type of magic would best cover that gap?

--flatline

imo... herbalism

which, incidentally, offers some other rather useful abilities as well. there is, however, an awful lot of overlap (and i don't have access to lemuria to see the new biomancy spells, which may very well put herbalism to shame).

Herbalism known to somebody who actually has a reasonable amount of PPE would be pretty handy. The biggest problem with the england herbalists is they have to jump through hoops to get enough PPE to make their stuff.

[say652]

it was never clarified if abilities of the secondary mage class were given. i mean technically the phase mystic is a "mage" so if abilities are given their you go a temporal phase mystic or in effect a lesser promethean.

[Glistam]

For the record -- Glistam cannot take another class's abilities but he may EVENTUALLY study another branch of magic (living flame, necromancy, spatial, laser, ludicrous, etc.)

This option being explored right now, if it even materializes and if it is chosen, would not offer class abilities.

[Tor]

I always figured invocation to mean non-ritual magic, based on the TTGD specialties.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Space magic.

[badges89]

trickster or ludicrous magic

[Slight001]

Dweomer magic/mage Rifter 17. Great school for a Temp. Wiz.

I second this one. That is a very cool school of magic... I'm just not convinced it'd be practical for a non-dweomer mage to use that school... IIRC its a rather particular school when it comes to others using it.

[Tor]

juicers are given their full lifespans back and all chemical damage undone (no detox or penalties whatsoever)

This won't interfere with my Murder Wraiths will it?