1st time Warlock question with more to follow.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

So for the first time I tried PF and came up with a Water Warlock (I randomized it because I didn't know what to chose). After reading the L1 Warlock spells I was hit ran into a question.

"Are Warlocks immune to the effects of their own spells?"

For example, if my Water Warlock or an Air Warlock cast Cloud of Steam or Purple Mist (or whatever), would they be able to operate within the cloud/mist without suffering the effects (seeing as how they are so in tune with the elemental force of the magic)??

Thanks for you help,

Nate
Canon answers are appreciated.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Well that kind of stinks. The Cloud of Steam is pretty handy at reducing the visibility of opponents down to nothing, but isn't much use if you can't see to hit them.

That'd be like the Air Warlock getting sucked up in his own tornado.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

I'll post the other questions in this thread, as I come up with them. Thanks for being so quick to answer the 1st one.

[Prysus]

So for the first time I tried PF and came up with a Water Warlock (I randomized it because I didn't know what to chose). After reading the L1 Warlock spells I was hit ran into a question.

"Are Warlocks immune to the effects of their own spells?"

For example, if my Water Warlock or an Air Warlock cast Cloud of Steam or Purple Mist (or whatever), would they be able to operate within the cloud/mist without suffering the effects (seeing as how they are so in tune with the elemental force of the magic)??

Thanks for you help,

Nate
Canon answers are appreciated.

Greetings and Salutations. Practitioners of Magic (Warlocks included) are, in general, immune to the affects of a spell if they're the ones who cast it. However, there are limits.

Example 1: You can't create a Wall of Ice (Level 4 Water spell) and just walk through the wall because you cast it. It's still a solid object.

You might think this is common sense, but Cloud of Steam (to a degree) Create Fog are the same principles, physical affects instead of mystical. The simplest way to separate the two is that instead of thinking the spell caster is immune, it's that they automatically save (without need of a roll) against the magic they personally cast.

Example 2: If your warlock casts Purple Mist, he won't be affected. As a result, he won't pass out and he won't suffer any combat penalties or damage. Others (even allies) may.

Then there are the ones who are both physical and a save.

Example 3: The warlock casts Cloud of Steam. He automatically makes his save (no need to roll). However, this means he's still suffering penalties and half damage (but not full damage).

And, of course, the Warlock is not immune to spells he knows but casts by others.

Example 4: Warlock A casts Cloud of Steam 90 feet away (so he's not in the range anymore). This blinds his enemies and causes them damage, and he doesn't even have to get involved in the combat! Whoo! Warlock B now casts Cloud of Steam on Warlock A. Warlock A must make a roll to save vs. magic, because even though he knows the spell he didn't cast it.

That's at least the rules as I understand them. I tried to break it down to several different explanations so you can see how it works best. With that said, I have no clue where this rule would be found within the book. In fact, I don't think I've ever actually read the rule (my players don't use magic much, so I haven't read the rules on it much). However this has always been my understanding, which means I probably picked it up from someone else (and could, in theory, just be a house rule that I now accept as fact).

Anyways, hope that helps. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Goliath Strongarm]

So for the first time I tried PF and came up with a Water Warlock (I randomized it because I didn't know what to chose). After reading the L1 Warlock spells I was hit ran into a question.

"Are Warlocks immune to the effects of their own spells?"

For example, if my Water Warlock or an Air Warlock cast Cloud of Steam or Purple Mist (or whatever), would they be able to operate within the cloud/mist without suffering the effects (seeing as how they are so in tune with the elemental force of the magic)??

Thanks for you help,

Nate
Canon answers are appreciated.

Greetings and Salutations. Practitioners of Magic (Warlocks included) are, in general, immune to the affects of a spell if they're the ones who cast it. However, there are limits.

Example 1: You can't create a Wall of Ice (Level 4 Water spell) and just walk through the wall because you cast it. It's still a solid object.

You might think this is common sense, but Cloud of Steam (to a degree) Create Fog are the same principles, physical affects instead of mystical. The simplest way to separate the two is that instead of thinking the spell caster is immune, it's that they automatically save (without need of a roll) against the magic they personally cast.

Example 2: If your warlock casts Purple Mist, he won't be affected. As a result, he won't pass out and he won't suffer any combat penalties or damage. Others (even allies) may.

Then there are the ones who are both physical and a save.

Example 3: The warlock casts Cloud of Steam. He automatically makes his save (no need to roll). However, this means he's still suffering penalties and half damage (but not full damage).

And, of course, the Warlock is not immune to spells he knows but casts by others.

Example 4: Warlock A casts Cloud of Steam 90 feet away (so he's not in the range anymore). This blinds his enemies and causes them damage, and he doesn't even have to get involved in the combat! Whoo! Warlock B now casts Cloud of Steam on Warlock A. Warlock A must make a roll to save vs. magic, because even though he knows the spell he didn't cast it.

That's at least the rules as I understand them. I tried to break it down to several different explanations so you can see how it works best. With that said, I have no clue where this rule would be found within the book. In fact, I don't think I've ever actually read the rule (my players don't use magic much, so I haven't read the rules on it much). However this has always been my understanding, which means I probably picked it up from someone else (and could, in theory, just be a house rule that I now accept as fact).

Anyways, hope that helps. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

While I generally agree, I do believe this IS a house rule (as you said is a possibility), albeit a very common one. Very, VERY common, from my experience.

I can't find an actual rule in the book (although, as I'm a bit distracted, I may have missed it). Most (not all, but most) groups I've been with over the years have run it pretty much as Prysus said above, with minor variance from group to group.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Question 2.
The book mentions Water Warlocks (and I would assume air also) being worth 10 sailors on a pirate or merchant vessel. I'm assuming these are due to powers such as Saltwater to Fresh and Wind rush (or something similar). Out on the ocean/sea/river/or even a big lake I can see the validity of this.

My question, Is my Water Warlock seriously nerfed by being inland or not near a MAJOR body of water?

My initial impression of Warlocks was that of those bendy folks from that Nickelodeon cartoon that had the same name as the James Cameron movie about the Giant Blue Space Cat people. You know the one I'm talking about..

if this is kind of accurate then they can still be fairly functional in different environments, especially if they had a quantity of their element with them to work with.

[Damian Magecraft]

Question 2.
The book mentions Water Warlocks (and I would assume air also) being worth 10 sailors on a pirate or merchant vessel. I'm assuming these are due to powers such as Saltwater to Fresh and Wind rush (or something similar). Out on the ocean/sea/river/or even a big lake I can see the validity of this.

My question, Is my Water Warlock seriously nerfed by being inland or not near a MAJOR body of water?

My initial impression of Warlocks was that of those bendy folks from that Nickelodeon cartoon that had the same name as the James Cameron movie about the Giant Blue Space Cat people. You know the one I'm talking about..

if this is kind of accurate then they can still be fairly functional in different environments, especially if they had a quantity of their element with them to work with.

like that show...
they do get a bit of an advantage when near their element but... even in the desert there is water a plenty if you know where to look.

[Goliath Strongarm]

Question 2.
My question, Is my Water Warlock seriously nerfed by being inland or not near a MAJOR body of water?

if this is kind of accurate then they can still be fairly functional in different environments, especially if they had a quantity of their element with them to work with.

They can be extremely useful, regardless of environment.

Foul Water: the more limited the water supply (like in a desert) the more potent a weapon this becomes (and is NOT limited to water!!)
Liquids to Water: In a desert, no water available, but you have some beer? Or some urine? Or fluid X? Etc etc..
Circle of Rain
Protection of Lightning (Trust me, we get lightning in the desert!!)
Heal Burns
Summon & Control Storm


By no means the only ones that are useful away from water. Just a few. Also, see if your GM will allow you to use the Rifts Book of Magic for your spells instead of just the PF book. Quite a few more (and work just fine on a 1MDC to 1SDC conversion).

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

like that show...
they do get a bit of an advantage when near their element but... even in the desert there is water a plenty if you know where to look.

Oh that makes them exponentially more awesome. I wish I knew enough about rule/spell/MA forms creation to have folks like those in our game. Seeing as how we're all PF noobs and haven't even gotten to the "toes in the water" stage yet, there shouldn't be a big todo about it.

I wonder if it's already been done, and if so where I might find it.


No (blatant) rule breaking intended.

[Damian Magecraft]

like that show...
they do get a bit of an advantage when near their element but... even in the desert there is water a plenty if you know where to look.

Oh that makes them exponentially more awesome. I wish I knew enough about rule/spell/MA forms creation to have folks like those in our game. Seeing as how we're all PF noobs and haven't even gotten to the "toes in the water" stage yet, there shouldn't be a big todo about it.

I wonder if it's already been done, and if so where I might find it.


No (blatant) rule breaking intended.

being new to Pally I would recommend getting a better feel for the system before playing around with "inspired" classes. too easy for them to get away from you if you dont have a handle on the power structure of your style of play. And believe me... the power structure of your games will evolve as you go with this or any other system.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

being new to Pally I would recommend getting a better feel for the system before playing around with "inspired" classes. too easy for them to get away from you if you dont have a handle on the power structure of your style of play. And believe me... the power structure of your games will evolve as you go with this or any other system.

Not 100% sure what you mean by "new to pally".
If you mean the PF setting, then yes I'm new.
If you mean The Palladium books game play style , then no. I'm an old hack. I started playing TMNT when I was 12ish (so that was 24yrs ago) and moved from there to HU1r. Our GM used the TDTMNT books to take our HU1r campaign megaversal before there officially was a rifts. Time travelling, dimension hopping, space opera, supernatural-supertechnological-super villain fighting, skateboarding, punk rocker mutant animals for the late 80's win!!

God that part of my childhood was awesome.

While I've never played any type magic or psionic class (we considered it to many #'s to keep track of, thereby bogging down a fun game), I've half formed an idea on how to do it.

The book says Warlocks are "granted their powers by the Elemental Intelligence they've aligned themselves to". To me that sounds a heck of a lot like a mystically imbued superhero. However, each use of the "power" has a ppe cost and the warlock has a ppe pool to draw from. No problem. This still sounds like a superhero who can only activate their power so many times per day until they need to rest and recharge. Which honestly is how I would play most PPE/ISP/Chi users. It just makes things simpler to understand. Also I remember reading a Rifter article about pooling your PPE/ISP/Chi so that you had it available for quick use in a combat situation (or something like that).

I do however understand your advice about getting a feel for the game before letting loose with an inspired class lest it get away from you. My GM comes from D&D2e/Ad&D and before playing with me had never even heard of PB. He's learning the system enough and my style of play that he's making things challenging for me while still keeping the fun. We used the ATB2 animal descriptions and the Expanded education tables found on the boards along with my own tweaking of the Brute/Beastly/Crushing strength power to design 2 ridiculously overpowered mutants. He's learned to compensate for this by either overwhelming me or jumping up npc levels. My thought on having a warlock in a game is that I may need to come with both barrels blazing if i want to survive. In such a case as that, the inspired class of warlocks would be beneficial. Also, because i have a visual reference for what the power effects would be it'd just be really cool to boot.

[Damian Magecraft]

being new to Pally I would recommend getting a better feel for the system before playing around with "inspired" classes. too easy for them to get away from you if you dont have a handle on the power structure of your style of play. And believe me... the power structure of your games will evolve as you go with this or any other system.

Not 100% sure what you mean by "new to pally".
If you mean the PF setting, then yes I'm new.
If you mean The Palladium books game play style , then no. I'm an old hack. I started playing TMNT when I was 12ish (so that was 24yrs ago) and moved from there to HU1r. Our GM used the TDTMNT books to take our HU1r campaign megaversal before there officially was a rifts. Time travelling, dimension hopping, space opera, supernatural-supertechnological-super villain fighting, skateboarding, punk rocker mutant animals for the late 80's win!!

God that part of my childhood was awesome.

While I've never played any type magic or psionic class (we considered it to many #'s to keep track of, thereby bogging down a fun game), I've half formed an idea on how to do it.

The book says Warlocks are "granted their powers by the Elemental Intelligence they've aligned themselves to". To me that sounds a heck of a lot like a mystically imbued superhero. However, each use of the "power" has a ppe cost and the warlock has a ppe pool to draw from. No problem. This still sounds like a superhero who can only activate their power so many times per day until they need to rest and recharge. Which honestly is how I would play most PPE/ISP/Chi users. It just makes things simpler to understand. Also I remember reading a Rifter article about pooling your PPE/ISP/Chi so that you had it available for quick use in a combat situation (or something like that).

I do however understand your advice about getting a feel for the game before letting loose with an inspired class lest it get away from you. My GM comes from D&D2e/Ad&D and before playing with me had never even heard of PB. He's learning the system enough and my style of play that he's making things challenging for me while still keeping the fun. We used the ATB2 animal descriptions and the Expanded education tables found on the boards along with my own tweaking of the Brute/Beastly/Crushing strength power to design 2 ridiculously overpowered mutants. He's learned to compensate for this by either overwhelming me or jumping up npc levels. My thought on having a warlock in a game is that I may need to come with both barrels blazing if i want to survive. In such a case as that, the inspired class of warlocks would be beneficial. Also, because i have a visual reference for what the power effects would be it'd just be really cool to boot.

ah ok I misunderstood...
The power curve in PF is not as high as it is in the other settings (usually) that can take some getting used to.
Magic requires a bit thought (regardless of system).
Its not normally a guns blazing type character. (although the right spell choices and it can be).
Take your time learn the spells and casting set up (they do have their limitations) and before you know it your mages will be true forces of nature.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Take your time learn the spells and casting set up (they do have their limitations) and before you know it your mages will be true forces of nature.

Forces of nature...a warlock pun..ahhaha nice.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

The power curve in PF is not as high as it is in the other settings (usually) that can take some getting used to.

Can you explain this a little better? Specifically the power curve bit. My initial thought is that you're saying...well I just am not sure.

Does it mean that maybe I'm not so squishy at L1 as I would be in other games or the power of my abilities doesn't climb as steeply as in other games (made up example: L1 shoot fireballl, L3 Detonate localized supernova)?

[Nekira Sudacne]

The power curve in PF is not as high as it is in the other settings (usually) that can take some getting used to.

Can you explain this a little better? Specifically the power curve bit. My initial thought is that you're saying...well I just am not sure.

Does it mean that maybe I'm not so squishy at L1 as I would be in other games or the power of my abilities doesn't climb as steeply as in other games (made up example: L1 shoot fireballl, L3 Detonate localized supernova)?

both, actually.

the OCC's in palladium fantasy tend to not have nearly the variation of Rifts. I mean not even in the same leauge. there's nothing even close to a juicer or gunslinger, armor and weapons are all standardized. the men of arms classes are all basically different skillsets with maybe slight variations with one or two having some minor unique power that differentiates them.

it also means that magic users tend to be far more powerful. while the palladium fantasy wizard dosn't have nearly the bredth of ability or PPE reserves of a ley line walker or shifter, the utter lack of technology to compensate means that magic users have advantages that are very hard to overcome. in games like rifts or heroes unlimited a tech based character is best off using the long range of modern weapons to stay out of range of most spells. in PF that's impossible, nothing has a better range than a longbow, which is hard to learn to use, and even that won't keep you out of retaliation range. add to that no radio, no flying machines, ect. the only thing keeping it balanced is that on palladium fantasy magic users are MUCH rarer than on rifts earth, and mages are much more secretive with their arts and less inclined to share. thusly there are no real magic-using nations of the tolkeen or federation type. at the same time, those same magic users, because palladium fantasy is a lower magic and lower powered world, have less PPE to cast with, and ley lines are much rarer to come across, so mages have to watch their reserves much more carefully.

the common presence of Preists also changes the nature of the game somewhat. Preists all have a healing touch ability that, while only healing 2d6, is completely free to use and has no limit, so a preist in the party can trivially heal everyone to full heath any time there's a break in the action. which is good, because armor is much much crappier in palladium fantasy and it's a lot easier to get hit.

[drewkitty ~..~]

So for the first time I tried PF and came up with a Water Warlock (I randomized it because I didn't know what to chose). After reading the L1 Warlock spells I was hit ran into a question.

"Are Warlocks immune to the effects of their own spells?"

For example, if my Water Warlock or an Air Warlock cast Cloud of Steam or Purple Mist (or whatever), would they be able to operate within the cloud/mist without suffering the effects (seeing as how they are so in tune with the elemental force of the magic)??

Thanks for you help,

Nate
Canon answers are appreciated.

If there is no text covering the casting warlock/mage being immune to their spell's effects, then it will effect them as well if they are with in the Area of Effect during the spell's duration.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Thanks Nekira. Creating the PF character was just an expirement. I've been kind of fascinated with magic lately after reading the "created spells" thread. So I wanted to give it a shot. Neither the GM or I have any experience with the PF rule set or world layout/politics etc. We're currently running four TMNT campaigns with hopes at a 5th. TMNT/HU is so easy because it's modern day earth with tech and a geography/political structure that's easily stepped into.

I'd feel kind of bad asking him to learn a whole new world. He IS familiar with the fantasy genre having come from D&D2e though.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

So for the first time I tried PF and came up with a Water Warlock (I randomized it because I didn't know what to chose). After reading the L1 Warlock spells I was hit ran into a question.

"Are Warlocks immune to the effects of their own spells?"

For example, if my Water Warlock or an Air Warlock cast Cloud of Steam or Purple Mist (or whatever), would they be able to operate within the cloud/mist without suffering the effects (seeing as how they are so in tune with the elemental force of the magic)??

Thanks for you help,

Nate
Canon answers are appreciated.

If there is no text covering the casting warlock/mage being immune to their spell's effects, then it will effect them as well if they are with in the Area of Effect during the spell's duration.

While I understand the "realism" of this (you're not immune to the grenade just because you threw it) I still think it's kind of lame. While LR spells are very beneficial it feels kind of cheap to always be running out of the AoE.

[drewkitty ~..~]

So for the first time I tried PF and came up with a Water Warlock (I randomized it because I didn't know what to chose). After reading the L1 Warlock spells I was hit ran into a question.

"Are Warlocks immune to the effects of their own spells?"

For example, if my Water Warlock or an Air Warlock cast Cloud of Steam or Purple Mist (or whatever), would they be able to operate within the cloud/mist without suffering the effects (seeing as how they are so in tune with the elemental force of the magic)??

Thanks for you help,

Nate
Canon answers are appreciated.

If there is no text covering the casting warlock/mage being immune to their spell's effects, then it will effect them as well if they are with in the Area of Effect during the spell's duration.

While I understand the "realism" of this (you're not immune to the grenade just because you threw it) I still think it's kind of lame. While LR spells are very beneficial it feels kind of cheap to always be running out of the AoE.

You said you wanted the canon answer.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

You said you wanted the canon answer.

Yes, yes I did. I was just hoping the canon answer would be better or located in a place I had overlooked.

Thank you for your contribution though.

[Damian Magecraft]

So for the first time I tried PF and came up with a Water Warlock (I randomized it because I didn't know what to chose). After reading the L1 Warlock spells I was hit ran into a question.

"Are Warlocks immune to the effects of their own spells?"

For example, if my Water Warlock or an Air Warlock cast Cloud of Steam or Purple Mist (or whatever), would they be able to operate within the cloud/mist without suffering the effects (seeing as how they are so in tune with the elemental force of the magic)??

Thanks for you help,

Nate
Canon answers are appreciated.

If there is no text covering the casting warlock/mage being immune to their spell's effects, then it will effect them as well if they are with in the Area of Effect during the spell's duration.

While I understand the "realism" of this (you're not immune to the grenade just because you threw it) I still think it's kind of lame. While LR spells are very beneficial it feels kind of cheap to always be running out of the AoE.

Thats why mages are plotters and planners...
Nothing is more devastating than having to fight a mage at a time and place of his choosing.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Thanks Nekira. Creating the PF character was just an expirement. I've been kind of fascinated with magic lately after reading the "created spells" thread. So I wanted to give it a shot. Neither the GM or I have any experience with the PF rule set or world layout/politics etc. We're currently running four TMNT campaigns with hopes at a 5th. TMNT/HU is so easy because it's modern day earth with tech and a geography/political structure that's easily stepped into.

I'd feel kind of bad asking him to learn a whole new world. He IS familiar with the fantasy genre having come from D&D2e though.

hah. palladium fantasy started as kevins homebrew AD&D setting, so it shouldn't be hard for him to work with.