Suggestion for Pall./ND: Southern Cross vehicle minis

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Okay,

I have a suggestion for Palladium/Ninja Division (if and when) they get around to minis for The Masters War. The strength of The Army Southern Cross and UEF of the era is in its conventional ground and space forces. Mecha are great and cool, but the series really does give a lot of love to the conventional weapons platforms. Even more so than the unseen Battloids (sorry, but only the Fenris/Manticore and Kraken are Powered Armor) there should be the conventional weapons of the UEF offered. In fact they should be easier/cheaper to field than mecha! Please, for the love of God make use of these designs as stretch goals or the like if there is a Masters War Kickstarter.

[Arnie100]

Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing ASC ships as minis.

[Armorlord]

Well, I was about the say that 1/285 scale infantry would be tricky, but I took a moment to Google it first, and it seems there several wargames that make use of that scale for infantry combat, along with their gear and vertices, so hell, go for it I say. Likely takes a very fine casting process, but even then, I imagine to cost with the smaller size wouldn't be too bad.

Edit: Some examples for size-
http://www.odinartcollectables.com/imag ... fantry.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8201/8203 ... b813_c.jpg

[Sgt Anjay]

I’ll throw in my two cents, and it’s summed up with two words: combined arms.

The ASC is combined arms top to bottom, front to back. It’s the hallmark of how they operate. TC infantry fighting vehicles in trouble? Send in TASC Logans, then follow that up with ATAC hovertanks. A hovertank unit in trouble performing a clandestine rescue disguised as a training mission? Crash down on the scene of battle with REP battloids and GMP backup. TAF having issues with enemy air defense? Send a wing to cover airborne deployment of hovertanks to bring the ship to the ground. Need to crack the ship’s outer hull now? Bring in TSC Chimeras from your space forces to salvo a weak point for TASC Logans to exploit to make an opening for the hovertanks. Even in space they developed combined arms tactics, beyond the standard TASC/TSC pairings, having Ajax wings cover a hovertank boarding party. Let’s face it; nobody even blinked when a TASC mission to send shuttles to reestablish communications with Liberty was filled out by ATAC volunteers.

And these are just examples we see in the show. Factor in that whatever terrain the enemy has chosen to fight in, the ASC has an elite force trained to win in that specific thing, and now it’s even more all about getting the right force with the right gear in the right spot at the right time.

Combined arms, combined arms, combined arms.

[jedi078]

I had a GI JOE train set with very small army men. They were not the 2 inch tall figures you can commonly find in stores. Those might work in a pinch for dismounted infantry (or civilians fleeing from Battle Pods) in any Robotech RPG tactics game.

[MilkManX]

I just hope we actually get Robotech Masters and eventually New Generation. That will be what sometime in 2032...

[RiverJack]

Well, I was about the say that 1/285 scale infantry would be tricky, but I took a moment to Google it first, and it seems there several wargames that make use of that scale for infantry combat, along with their gear and vertices, so hell, go for it I say. Likely takes a very fine casting process, but even then, I imagine to cost with the smaller size wouldn't be too bad.

Edit: Some examples for size-
http://www.odinartcollectables.com/imag ... fantry.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8201/8203 ... b813_c.jpg

They made some good infantry pieces in Mech Warrior dark ages.

[RiverJack]

Yeah I would like to add they would need to make every bioroid including minis of the hover sled. I also would like to see minis of the Bioroid Robotech master infantry including Terminators.

[glitterboy2098]

for those curious, infantry in the RT:tactics game would be about 6mm tall. there are a large number of games which use this scale, complete with infantry.
a multitude of historical microarmor games, which usually use figures from GHQ, Heroic and Ros, and dozens of other manufacturers. these are generally sculpted to represent forces from a variety of militaries between ww2 and modern times. and while quite small, they have been sculpted to have a fialry good amount of detail.

there are also more scifi versions out there. warhammer40K has a specialist game i nthe same scale called "epic armageddon" with a larger range of infantry and vehicles.
Ground Zero Games produces a wide range of scifi and anime inspired ones, and i know of dozens of others doing various types of scifi in that scale

I had a GI JOE train set with very small army men. They were not the 2 inch tall figures you can commonly find in stores. Those might work in a pinch for dismounted infantry (or civilians fleeing from Battle Pods) in any Robotech RPG tactics game.

how tall were those?
if i had to guess, i'd assume 1/72nd, or about 20mm tall. it would be hard to use such a different scale in a true-line-of-sight game. it would be like having a 20ft human.

you could use figures from the "28mm" scale (about 1/56th) for Zentraedi though, if your not picky about inaccurate equipment.

They made some good infantry pieces in Mech Warrior dark ages.

mechwarrior dark ages/age of destruction was 1/144th scale, or 12mm.

Battletech has some good infantry figures.. the old Ral Partha ones were 6mm, though details were a bit iffy. the newer Iron Wind metals ones are closer to 8mm, letting them have better detail, but slightly out of scale. since the battletech mechs and vehicles are not precisely scaled the way these TRtactics figures are, it works for battletech. personally i use GHQ infantry in my Btech games.

[jedi078]

I had a GI JOE train set with very small army men. They were not the 2 inch tall figures you can commonly find in stores. Those might work in a pinch for dismounted infantry (or civilians fleeing from Battle Pods) in any Robotech RPG tactics game.

how tall were those?
if i had to guess, i'd assume 1/72nd, or about 20mm tall. it would be hard to use such a different scale in a true-line-of-sight game. it would be like having a 20ft human.

I found a review of the train set online (I'd post the link but there is some bad language in it) and it states that the figures were 'shorter than a penny in height'.

[RiverJack]

for those curious, infantry in the RT:tactics game would be about 6mm tall. there are a large number of games which use this scale, complete with infantry.
a multitude of historical microarmor games, which usually use figures from GHQ, Heroic and Ros, and dozens of other manufacturers. these are generally sculpted to represent forces from a variety of militaries between ww2 and modern times. and while quite small, they have been sculpted to have a fialry good amount of detail.

there are also more scifi versions out there. warhammer40K has a specialist game i nthe same scale called "epic armageddon" with a larger range of infantry and vehicles.
Ground Zero Games produces a wide range of scifi and anime inspired ones, and i know of dozens of others doing various types of scifi in that scale

I had a GI JOE train set with very small army men. They were not the 2 inch tall figures you can commonly find in stores. Those might work in a pinch for dismounted infantry (or civilians fleeing from Battle Pods) in any Robotech RPG tactics game.

how tall were those?
if i had to guess, i'd assume 1/72nd, or about 20mm tall. it would be hard to use such a different scale in a true-line-of-sight game. it would be like having a 20ft human.

you could use figures from the "28mm" scale (about 1/56th) for Zentraedi though, if your not picky about inaccurate equipment.

They made some good infantry pieces in Mech Warrior dark ages.

mechwarrior dark ages/age of destruction was 1/144th scale, or 12mm.

Battletech has some good infantry figures.. the old Ral Partha ones were 6mm, though details were a bit iffy. the newer Iron Wind metals ones are closer to 8mm, letting them have better detail, but slightly out of scale. since the battletech mechs and vehicles are not precisely scaled the way these TRtactics figures are, it works for battletech. personally i use GHQ infantry in my Btech games.

Just to have infantry in the game I would be ok with them being kinda out of scale.

[rtsurfer]

As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces. There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

There are other conventional & hover vehicles which don't really seem to have an active role in combat. The iconic Hover cycle & the Hover transport platform might be the exceptions, the later as it is apparently used to transport Battloids/Power Armors to the front line. There were a lot of Battle Robots designed for Southern Cross but only a couple are actually in the series and two in combat, the Recon Cyclops & Golom/Garm, which may come in two scales.

Like the Battle Robots there were quite a few matching armors designed, each for a specific environment and several are seen when forces are shown ready for the final battle. There are also the pilot and tanker armors not to mention the Masters Infantry. I wonder at the 6 mm scale how much of the stylized details will be discernible, color may play the main factor in distinguishing the different units.

Going by the ND Macross sets I would speculate that the Masters set would begin with about 4 Hovertanks, 3 Logans, 1 Red Bioroid, about 6-8 Blue Bioriods with separate Hoversleds. Goals/Add-ons would likely include SE Dana VHT, SE Marie Logan, Green Bioroid, Scout Bioroid, Golam/Garm (possibly two models at different scales), Hover transport platform, Recon Cyclops, ASC Recon craft (Bubblebee), and as higher stretch goals a triumverate of Invid Fighter Bioroids, space equipped VHTs, the Ajax/AGAC, & possibly a SE Marie Ajax. If the ks/preorders go well I could imagine they might add a missile launcher with build options, armored transport with build options, Terminator armor triumverate, Masters infantry, ASC infantry, ASC Hover cycle group, a swarm of Triumverphoids, and the spotlight (j/k on the last one). If it performed really well maybe some of the unseen ASC mecha.

[Sgt Anjay]

As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces.

Well, if how easily they’re taken out is a factor, any non-hero design goes down like a chump for the most part. That would’ve ruled out all the destroids.

There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

Which doesn’t change that the conventional designs were much more prominent in the ASC than the other chapters; all the aircraft and both the missile launcher and IFV are shown in combat, the Sylphid many times, the Chimera in multiple notable instances.

There are other conventional & hover vehicles which don't really seem to have an active role in combat. The iconic Hover cycle & the Hover transport platform might be the exceptions, the later as it is apparently used to transport Battloids/Power Armors to the front line. There were a lot of Battle Robots designed for Southern Cross but only a couple are actually in the series and two in combat, the Recon Cyclops & Golom/Garm, which may come in two scales.

Actually, Salamanders make multiple appearances, including combat. And, of course, there is an appearance by a Dryad’s leg in one shot.

Like the Battle Robots there were quite a few matching armors designed, each for a specific environment and several are seen when forces are shown ready for the final battle. There are also the pilot and tanker armors not to mention the Masters Infantry. I wonder at the 6 mm scale how much of the stylized details will be discernible, color may play the main factor in distinguishing the different units.

How much detail they can get on the infantry-sized units is a consideration, assuming they’re kept perfectly to scale, but this game would hardly be the only one to use infantry at that scale. Once you bother to learn what helmet features to look for, what branch an individual armor is isn’t that hard to distinguish, though the rank differences between enlisted and NCO are tricky. Still, I don’t think anyone is pushing for infantry squads ahead of the core mecha forces.

Going by the ND Macross sets I would speculate that the Masters set would begin with about 4 Hovertanks, 3 Logans, 1 Red Bioroid, about 6-8 Blue Bioriods with separate Hoversleds. Goals/Add-ons would likely include SE Dana VHT, SE Marie Logan, Green Bioroid, Scout Bioroid, Golam/Garm (possibly two models at different scales), Hover transport platform, Recon Cyclops, ASC Recon craft (Bubblebee), and as higher stretch goals a triumverate of Invid Fighter Bioroids, space equipped VHTs, the Ajax/AGAC, & possibly a SE Marie Ajax. If the ks/preorders go well I could imagine they might add a missile launcher with build options, armored transport with build options, Terminator armor triumverate, Masters infantry, ASC infantry, ASC Hover cycle group, a swarm of Triumverphoids, and the spotlight (j/k on the last one). If it performed really well maybe some of the unseen ASC mecha.

But the point is the ASC isn’t made up of the same kinds of units as the 1st Robotech War UEDF (there are, for example, three types of wholly different veritechs), they don’t fight like the 1st Robotech War UEDF (what’s the words? Oh yeah, combined arms), and shoehorning them into an identical composition when they should be structured differently does no one any good. And it doesn’t at all take advantage of the unique features of Masters Saga.

Different factions need to be distinct, whether its a tabletop game, turn-based strategy, or RTS. The plethora of specialized machines of the Southern Cross is what makes them stand out. Instead of a pack with four units of two different types of destroids, which are very large war machines, an equivalent pack for the Southern Cross could have a high quantity with a greater variety of battloids, which all interact with each other and other ASC units in different ways depending on enemy and terrain. That’s a worthwhile representation of the ASC, not “Generic Robotech Army C”.

[rtsurfer]

As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces.

Well, if how easily they’re taken out is a factor, any non-hero design goes down like a chump for the most part. That would’ve ruled out all the destroids.

There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

Which doesn’t change that the conventional designs were much more prominent in the ASC than the other chapters; all the aircraft and both the missile launcher and IFV are shown in combat, the Sylphid many times, the Chimera in multiple notable instances.

Personally, I would like to have Sylphid & Chimera, I'm sure Macross fans would like Ghost & Lancers. It's true that conventional designs had a more prominent role in the ASC, but for most people I think Robotech = Mecha.

There are other conventional & hover vehicles which don't really seem to have an active role in combat. The iconic Hover cycle & the Hover transport platform might be the exceptions, the later as it is apparently used to transport Battloids/Power Armors to the front line. There were a lot of Battle Robots designed for Southern Cross but only a couple are actually in the series and two in combat, the Recon Cyclops & Golom/Garm, which may come in two scales.

Actually, Salamanders make multiple appearances, including combat. And, of course, there is an appearance by a Dryad’s leg in one shot.

Hey, the Salamanders slipped my mind, thanks for reminding me.

Like the Battle Robots there were quite a few matching armors designed, each for a specific environment and several are seen when forces are shown ready for the final battle. There are also the pilot and tanker armors not to mention the Masters Infantry. I wonder at the 6 mm scale how much of the stylized details will be discernible, color may play the main factor in distinguishing the different units.

How much detail they can get on the infantry-sized units is a consideration, assuming they’re kept perfectly to scale, but this game would hardly be the only one to use infantry at that scale. Once you bother to learn what helmet features to look for, what branch an individual armor is isn’t that hard to distinguish, though the rank differences between enlisted and NCO are tricky. Still, I don’t think anyone is pushing for infantry squads ahead of the core mecha forces.

I seriously doubt they want to go through the trouble of making like a dozen distinct helmets on tiny infantry. I expect we'll be lucky just to get one set for ASC, maybe a mixture of male & female, & another set for the Masters.

Going by the ND Macross sets I would speculate that the Masters set would begin with about 4 Hovertanks, 3 Logans, 1 Red Bioroid, about 6-8 Blue Bioriods with separate Hoversleds. Goals/Add-ons would likely include SE Dana VHT, SE Marie Logan, Green Bioroid, Scout Bioroid, Golam/Garm (possibly two models at different scales), Hover transport platform, Recon Cyclops, ASC Recon craft (Bubblebee), and as higher stretch goals a triumverate of Invid Fighter Bioroids, space equipped VHTs, the Ajax/AGAC, & possibly a SE Marie Ajax. If the ks/preorders go well I could imagine they might add a missile launcher with build options, armored transport with build options, Terminator armor triumverate, Masters infantry, ASC infantry, ASC Hover cycle group, a swarm of Triumverphoids, and the spotlight (j/k on the last one). If it performed really well maybe some of the unseen ASC mecha.

But the point is the ASC isn’t made up of the same kinds of units as the 1st Robotech War UEDF (there are, for example, three types of wholly different veritechs), they don’t fight like the 1st Robotech War UEDF (what’s the words? Oh yeah, combined arms), and shoehorning them into an identical composition when they should be structured differently does no one any good. And it doesn’t at all take advantage of the unique features of Masters Saga.

Masters has to do well, I suspect most have low exceptions for that era based on its negative reputation. I imagine ND, or whomever produces the Masters minis, will go with what they think works -- essentially follow the formula that's working for Macross. More than likely they will go for the featured mecha first, inserting additional material as long as there appears to still be interest among backers, with the Ajax & Invid Fighters as their anticipated final stretch goal.

Different factions need to be distinct, whether its a tabletop game, turn-based strategy, or RTS. The plethora of specialized machines of the Southern Cross is what makes them stand out. Instead of a pack with four units of two different types of destroids, which are very large war machines, an equivalent pack for the Southern Cross could have a high quantity with a greater variety of battloids, which all interact with each other and other ASC units in different ways depending on enemy and terrain. That’s a worthwhile representation of the ASC, not “Generic Robotech Army C”.

Sets & packaging is primarily driven by production costs and anticipated interest. Will non-Masters/SC fans invest in a wide variety of battloids where they probably don't know one from the others? Masters/SC fans are already expected to invest, so they will likely be catering to the gamers/fans buying Macross right now - in other words essentially a Macross clone using Masters mecha. Maybe I'll be wrong.

[Sgt Anjay]

As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces.

Well, if how easily they’re taken out is a factor, any non-hero design goes down like a chump for the most part. That would’ve ruled out all the destroids.

There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

Which doesn’t change that the conventional designs were much more prominent in the ASC than the other chapters; all the aircraft and both the missile launcher and IFV are shown in combat, the Sylphid many times, the Chimera in multiple notable instances.

Personally, I would like to have Sylphid & Chimera, I'm sure Macross fans would like Ghost & Lancers. It's true that conventional designs had a more prominent role in the ASC, but for most people I think Robotech = Mecha.

I don't really disagree, and the core designs should be front and center. But at the same time with the ASC designs being smaller than the Macross behemoths, you can throw more for the same price point; in fact, you kinda better. And the best way Masters Saga has to compensate for the smaller designs is the breadth of designs. It gives the option of throwing in an easy and cheap conventional designs to accompany the mecha, i.e. an IFV or two with the Salamanders and bam, a mechanized infantry support to your Hovertank cavalry.

There are other conventional & hover vehicles which don't really seem to have an active role in combat. The iconic Hover cycle & the Hover transport platform might be the exceptions, the later as it is apparently used to transport Battloids/Power Armors to the front line. There were a lot of Battle Robots designed for Southern Cross but only a couple are actually in the series and two in combat, the Recon Cyclops & Golom/Garm, which may come in two scales.

Actually, Salamanders make multiple appearances, including combat. And, of course, there is an appearance by a Dryad’s leg in one shot.

Hey, the Salamanders slipped my mind, thanks for reminding me.

Ain't no thing, if I hadn't gotten ya Rabid would've.

Like the Battle Robots there were quite a few matching armors designed, each for a specific environment and several are seen when forces are shown ready for the final battle. There are also the pilot and tanker armors not to mention the Masters Infantry. I wonder at the 6 mm scale how much of the stylized details will be discernible, color may play the main factor in distinguishing the different units.

How much detail they can get on the infantry-sized units is a consideration, assuming they’re kept perfectly to scale, but this game would hardly be the only one to use infantry at that scale. Once you bother to learn what helmet features to look for, what branch an individual armor is isn’t that hard to distinguish, though the rank differences between enlisted and NCO are tricky. Still, I don’t think anyone is pushing for infantry squads ahead of the core mecha forces.

I seriously doubt they want to go through the trouble of making like a dozen distinct helmets on tiny infantry. I expect we'll be lucky just to get one set for ASC, maybe a mixture of male & female, & another set for the Masters.

Well, how deep they go into infantry depends on how long the line goes on. I'd be surprised if there were any in the initial run with so many other designs available.

Going by the ND Macross sets I would speculate that the Masters set would begin with about 4 Hovertanks, 3 Logans, 1 Red Bioroid, about 6-8 Blue Bioriods with separate Hoversleds. Goals/Add-ons would likely include SE Dana VHT, SE Marie Logan, Green Bioroid, Scout Bioroid, Golam/Garm (possibly two models at different scales), Hover transport platform, Recon Cyclops, ASC Recon craft (Bubblebee), and as higher stretch goals a triumverate of Invid Fighter Bioroids, space equipped VHTs, the Ajax/AGAC, & possibly a SE Marie Ajax. If the ks/preorders go well I could imagine they might add a missile launcher with build options, armored transport with build options, Terminator armor triumverate, Masters infantry, ASC infantry, ASC Hover cycle group, a swarm of Triumverphoids, and the spotlight (j/k on the last one). If it performed really well maybe some of the unseen ASC mecha.

But the point is the ASC isn’t made up of the same kinds of units as the 1st Robotech War UEDF (there are, for example, three types of wholly different veritechs), they don’t fight like the 1st Robotech War UEDF (what’s the words? Oh yeah, combined arms), and shoehorning them into an identical composition when they should be structured differently does no one any good. And it doesn’t at all take advantage of the unique features of Masters Saga.

Masters has to do well, I suspect most have low exceptions for that era based on its negative reputation. I imagine ND, or whomever produces the Masters minis, will go with what they think works -- essentially follow the formula that's working for Macross.

It's nowhere near that simple. This is a game. You need to have each unit fit in the game's context, or they're worthless. On top of that, they're not the same sizes as the Macross figures, and charging the same price for smaller units is pretty suicidal. Then, of course, the Southern Cross has three veritechs, which each will have different roles, advantages, and disadvantages rules-wise, as well as needed the figures for the different modes. How do you possible one-for-one that with Macross? You don't, without asking to crash and burn. What is the equivalant of the Defender in ASC? What besides a team of the conventional missile launchers (Arbalests, per the RPG) doubles for the Phalanx? Its silly to one-for-one an ASC battloid with the bigger (not to mention missile-bearing) Spartan. And how about the Excalibur or Monster? No, the ASC is its own thing, it's going to need its own considerations rules-wise, which means which designs come with which in which quantities have to coincide with what you need to make that faction work, or the players will call foul.

Different factions need to be distinct, whether its a tabletop game, turn-based strategy, or RTS. The plethora of specialized machines of the Southern Cross is what makes them stand out. Instead of a pack with four units of two different types of destroids, which are very large war machines, an equivalent pack for the Southern Cross could have a high quantity with a greater variety of battloids, which all interact with each other and other ASC units in different ways depending on enemy and terrain. That’s a worthwhile representation of the ASC, not “Generic Robotech Army C”.

Sets & packaging is primarily driven by production costs and anticipated interest.

You can't ignore rules considerations, or the players will bail on you, which obviates the possibility of one-for-one comparisons. They should use the same techniques that worked for Macross, and apply them to this new faction.

Will non-Masters/SC fans invest in a wide variety of battloids where they probably don't know one from the others?

They won't take a battloid as the equivalent of a destroid. Nor should they. The units are smaller, the units have different kinds of weapons and attacks, the number of veritechs is higher (oh, and one of them only has two modes which jiggers the number of minis) and you have to compensate, or the faction is going to crash-and-burn from a game perspective alone.

[Sgt Anjay]

...you know, I keep saying the ASC has 3 veritechs, but the RPG pushes the Myrmidon pretty hard. Considering he influence the RPG has on this, it might be safer to say four...

[Alpha 11]

I’ll throw in my two cents, and it’s summed up with two words: combined arms.

The ASC is combined arms top to bottom, front to back. It’s the hallmark of how they operate. TC infantry fighting vehicles in trouble? Send in TASC Logans, then follow that up with ATAC hovertanks. A hovertank unit in trouble performing a clandestine rescue disguised as a training mission? Crash down on the scene of battle with REP battloids and GMP backup. TAF having issues with enemy air defense? Send a wing to cover airborne deployment of hovertanks to bring the ship to the ground. Need to crack the ship’s outer hull now? Bring in TSC Chimeras from your space forces to salvo a weak point for TASC Logans to exploit to make an opening for the hovertanks. Even in space they developed combined arms tactics, beyond the standard TASC/TSC pairings, having Ajax wings cover a hovertank boarding party. Let’s face it; nobody even blinked when a TASC mission to send shuttles to reestablish communications with Liberty was filled out by ATAC volunteers.

And these are just examples we see in the show. Factor in that whatever terrain the enemy has chosen to fight in, the ASC has an elite force trained to win in that specific thing, and now it’s even more all about getting the right force with the right gear in the right spot at the right time.

Combined arms, combined arms, combined arms.

I hope and pray that the game will refleck this also. I will be trying to support this with everything I can, also.

[rtsurfer]

It does make sense to coordinate & group units together that complement each other, and to a certain degree make them more equivalent to the much larger Macross mecha. Personally, I think ASC & REF mecha should be more advanced - more efficient power plants, lighter but more resilient armor, more powerful engines & weapons - than those of the Macross Saga. Either way, I can see how missile launchers could be very useful when the mecha don't have them.

How often did conventional ground forces & mecha forces deploy together during the Masters War? I'm seriously asking as I don't recall.

Grouping Battloids with convential designs would be one way of making the sets/packs a better deal. Lower price points & packaging larger quantities of the same together would be another. While well though out strategic groupings would likely be the better option, some would probably rather have brute force in numbers, quantity over quality.

The Myrmidon could be an additional ASC Veritech, although so far the VF-1R hasn't made it into the Macross game. It seems like some comments in interviews & posts point to an attempt to recreate combat from the tv series while deriving stats from the RPG.

[glitterboy2098]

IMO, vehicles should not be part of the same formation in play, but it wouldn't be too hard to put parts for a formation of vehicles into the boxes, along with a 2nd stats card.

so if you buy a box of Slamander battloids for instance, you'd get say, a formation of 4 battloids, and a formation 4 of the Missile launching vehicles, which would be deployed separately.

[ShadowLogan]

As far as conventional ASC combat vehicles in Masters, aren't there like 4, 5 if the Syphlid isn't a VF. Of these the aircraft seem to have a more prominent role and IIRC most get taken out rather easily by the Masters forces. There's the Syphlid - which is called a Veritech although it never transforms, the Chimera, and the duck billed one which IINM only shows up like once. I recall two armored ground units, the missile launcher (with 2 or 3 different type launchers) and the armored transport which seems to have a command basket option.

Depends on what you count here (names per 2E RPG):
-Sylphid (should be a VF by the dialogue)
-Falcon Fighter (one appearance)
-Chimera (space and air combat)
-Phantom Recon plane (per the RPG can be armed, also appears in Prelude and the Sentinels OVA with arm pods)
-Carpenter's Fighter (space combat, I know technically not ASC, but it is contemporary to the period)
-Hovercycle (Dana and Bowie DID engage in combat with Bioroids on them)
-Janissary Armored Vehicle(s); seen a few times in the troop carrier in combat, but also has the "command version" Komodo used in "False Start"
-Arblast Missile Launcher

I count 8 (treating the Sylphid as a non-VF) by the show itself and RPG writeups for that period. And the Slyphid could have 2-3 different models based on the animation's wings (conventional sweep, forward sweep, and elongated). The Janissary would have 2. That would raise the total to 10-1 (2 of the wings configs are recognized in the 2E RPG).

Its silly to one-for-one an ASC battloid with the bigger (not to mention missile-bearing) Spartan

Technically the Salamander carries a complement of missiles, not as many as the Spartan or as potent (enhanced range mini-missiles vs standard Short Range). The other battloids aren't as heavily armed as the Salamander though. VHTs and other conventional vehicles appear to have taken over the artillery missions handled by the other Destroids.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Its silly to one-for-one an ASC battloid with the bigger (not to mention missile-bearing) Spartan

Technically the Salamander carries a complement of missiles, not as many as the Spartan or as potent (enhanced range mini-missiles vs standard Short Range). The other battloids aren't as heavily armed as the Salamander though. VHTs and other conventional vehicles appear to have taken over the artillery missions handled by the other Destroids.

Though I would be surprised if it is pointed out in the rules, but the Salamander (and other ASC Battloids) have jump jets which should give them far greater mobility in combat than their Destroid cousins.

[glitterboy2098]

i don't know, the battlepods apparently have a 'jump' ability that gives them extra movement, so if they follow the current RPG the ASC battloids should have similar.

personally i'm wondering if 'size' will be accounted for.. something as big as a battlepod should find shooting at and hitting an ASC battloid slightly tougher than a destroid (which roughly 2x to 3x bigger in bulk, and almost twice the height), while the ASC battloid should find firing at the battlepod slightly easier, since the pod is a much bigger target.

this would make battlepod vs Invid scout engagements rather interesting though (since the scouts are absolutely tiny compared to pods..)

[rtsurfer]

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com ... 9fb512.jpg

[rtsurfer]

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/aea1544fd94a88c3ea195b24afe783fd59fb512.jpg

Spoiler:

It is a mock up by Jose Ortiz, of what could be...

[Alpha 11]

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/aea1544fd94a88c3ea195b24afe783fd59fb512.jpg

Nice. I so hope to see it for real.