Selling to the BM

[flatline]

So what's the scoop on selling to the BM?

We always played that the BM would pay you between 10% and 50% of the going value of something (usually list value) depending on how much demand there was for the item. If it was a high demand item, you'd get 40-50%. If it was a low demand item, you'd 10-20% (if the BM bought it at all).

By default, we assumed 30% (or 33% depending on which GM it was doing the math in his head).

Now that there's a BM book, are there canon guidelines?

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

It should be heavily effected by weather or not anyone in the party has the Barter skill.

[Faceless Dude]

I don't believe there are any guidelines like that, but I haven't finished the book so I can't say for certain. Even if there were I still go by what the market will bear. And that'll almost always be campaign-driven anyway

[Blue_Lion]

The BM will pay as little as they think they can and get what they want and charge as much as they think they can and get the sales they want. Skills like barter may help. Athou I find it a little anoying when GM focus to much on making players roleplay the barter skill when the player himself lacks the skill. Having people roleplay 15 min of interaction on every sale can be a real drag. Pluss you are leaving all players not participating beeing left out. Athou I do feel roleplaying is important over focus on acting out a social skill not common in the US and thus most people do not know how to do it right. Not to mention part of the skill is reading the reaction and intent of the other person. Instead get a general idea of what they want to say and roll the skill works better for me. There are better times to focus on roll playing than recharging your e-clips or selling junk. Interaction with key npc for 1 or party members or reacting to the plot or sub plots.

[flatline]

It should be heavily effected by weather or not anyone in the party has the Barter skill.

Barter? Never heard of it...

Here it is:
RUE p304: "Restriction: available only to Adventurer & Scholar OCCs"

Say what?

--flatline

[flatline]

The BM will pay as little as they think they can and get what they want and charge as much as they think they can and get the sales they want. Skills like barter may help. Athou I find it a little anoying when GM focus to much on making players roleplay the barter skill when the player himself lacks the skill. Having people roleplay 15 min of interaction on every sale can be a real drag. Pluss you are leaving all players not participating beeing left out. Athou I do feel roleplaying is important over focus on acting out a social skill not common in the US and thus most people do not know how to do it right. Not to mention part of the skill is reading the reaction and intent of the other person. Instead get a general idea of what they want to say and roll the skill works better for me. There are better times to focus on roll playing than recharging your e-clips or selling junk. Interaction with key npc for 1 or party members or reacting to the plot or sub plots.

Roleplaying BM interaction (or any commerce) is usually a time sink and a downer for the whole group. Every group I've played with eventually came up with house rules similar to what I had in the original post. Unusual items did sometimes get roleplayed even with house rules in place. In particular, sometimes the players had to convince the merchant that an item actually had value.

--flatline

[Shark_Force]

It should be heavily effected by weather or not anyone in the party has the Barter skill.

Barter? Never heard of it...

Here it is:
RUE p304: "Restriction: available only to Adventurer & Scholar OCCs"

Say what?

--flatline

obviously anyone can barter. this skill is presumably like the "professional" domestic skills; if you pick it up, you do it better than others, with the listed value being what folks without the skill can get.

that said, i agree it doesn't particularly make sense... i mean, a cyberknight probably has no use for the skill, but a mercenary leader would be using that sort of skill to get the best price for hiring out the merc company, etc...

[Blue_Lion]

I don't have the BM but I would like to add something-

I found that when players are purchasing weapons that this is a good time to utilize the game shield. If I should decide that the potential seller (I believe there was a 30% chance) was not all together reputable and or the players were deciding the purchase of something from someone they had no previous experience with; I (not the players) would do the roll under weapon quality. I felt this was a realistic way; for the players could not be altogether certain what they had purchased was on par for what they had paid. Also they started working together on this (everyone giving the weapon or item the eyeball) before purchasing. The flaw to the weapon was usually not that extreme and/or repairable.

Exchange rates were a challenge...Though I sometimes implemented a barter system rather than a credit system. Isolated Kingdoms and societies would not be sharing a credit exchange. Yes I know how it's presented but to me it just doesn't make much sense.

Well as I understand it remote comuinties where suppose to barter and why do you think players start with blackmarket barter items if it is never used.

[dragonfett]

Don't forget that items that are not in good shape do not command as much money. I want to say the there is a chart for how much the BM will pay for armor/power armor/robot vehicles based on how much MDC it still has left in it's various locations.

[flatline]

Don't forget that items that are not in good shape do not command as much money. I want to say the there is a chart for how much the BM will pay for armor/power armor/robot vehicles based on how much MDC it still has left in it's various locations.

Definitely a consideration. If you have Mend the Broken, you will usually be able to repair the item before you attempt to sell it, but I realize that not everyone has Mend the Broken or, perhaps, sufficient PPE for the repairs.

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

It should be heavily effected by weather or not anyone in the party has the Barter skill.

Barter? Never heard of it...

Here it is:
RUE p304: "Restriction: available only to Adventurer & Scholar OCCs"

Say what?

--flatline

I have no idea why it'd be restricted so, but plenty of groups have a S&A anyway, so the point stands it should be useful.

Another point to remember is that black market goods are so important to the NA economy virtually every OCC starts with some, sometimes more than conventional credits. that means "selling" to the black market, logically, should result in a trade of goods more often than universal credits. at least 40% of any given sale should be in some form of exchange.

[Dunia]

You can see the canon list of what BM pays for stuff in:

Black Market Sourcebook, pages: 106-108

Rifts Main Book 1, page 205-209

[flatline]

You can see the canon list of what BM pays for stuff in:

Black Market Sourcebook, pages: 106-108

Rifts Main Book 1, page 205-209

Ah, thank you. RMB p208 actually has a section called "Selling to the Black Market" and shows that we were being a little more generous in our house rule than canon. We were using 10-50% to sell to the BM, where canon is 10-30% for most things (at least for weapons).

Again, thank you.

--flatline

[Zamion138]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

[flatline]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

We once had a campaign where a character wanted some specific power armor and the BM quoted us some price. We raised the money and when we went back for the armor, they doubled the asking price. The character was pretty angry, but this is what happens when criminals have what you want and know that you can't get it anywhere else. It wasn't worth the new asking price, so we just didn't get the armor he wanted.

I don't remember ever having trouble getting or selling smaller stuff.

--flatline

[boxee]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

We once had a campaign where a character wanted some specific power armor and the BM quoted us some price. We raised the money and when we went back for the armor, they doubled the asking price. The character was pretty angry, but this is what happens when criminals have what you want and know that you can't get it anywhere else. It wasn't worth the new asking price, so we just didn't get the armor he wanted.

I don't remember ever having trouble getting or selling smaller stuff.

--flatline

Shoot him in the head and ask the second in command what the price is, rinse repeat as required......

[Blue_Lion]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

We once had a campaign where a character wanted some specific power armor and the BM quoted us some price. We raised the money and when we went back for the armor, they doubled the asking price. The character was pretty angry, but this is what happens when criminals have what you want and know that you can't get it anywhere else. It wasn't worth the new asking price, so we just didn't get the armor he wanted.

I don't remember ever having trouble getting or selling smaller stuff.

--flatline

Shoot him in the head and ask the second in command what the price is, rinse repeat as required......

Have you seen the cover of the black market book? This only works when you are the bad guys/crimnals but they already have that job. You pull a stunt like that on the BM well lets just say it will not be the smartest thing you ever done. But hey not like you have to live with it.

[boxee]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

We once had a campaign where a character wanted some specific power armor and the BM quoted us some price. We raised the money and when we went back for the armor, they doubled the asking price. The character was pretty angry, but this is what happens when criminals have what you want and know that you can't get it anywhere else. It wasn't worth the new asking price, so we just didn't get the armor he wanted.

I don't remember ever having trouble getting or selling smaller stuff.

--flatline

Shoot him in the head and ask the second in command what the price is, rinse repeat as required......

Have you seen the cover of the black market book? This only works when you are the bad guys/crimnals but they already have that job. You pull a stunt like that on the BM well lets just say it will not be the smartest thing you ever done. But hey not like you have to live with it.

There is a reason people in that kind of buiness have "honor" or the appearence of honor. People will do this if they feel they are being $^%^%&^ed. Think about it, this kind of stuff happens. Now if the guy had say added +10% that would be reasonable, and likely the players could have paid it.

AND yes the BM might seek revenge, but also you kill the top guy and everyone gets promoted....

[Nightmask]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

We once had a campaign where a character wanted some specific power armor and the BM quoted us some price. We raised the money and when we went back for the armor, they doubled the asking price. The character was pretty angry, but this is what happens when criminals have what you want and know that you can't get it anywhere else. It wasn't worth the new asking price, so we just didn't get the armor he wanted.

I don't remember ever having trouble getting or selling smaller stuff.

--flatline

Shoot him in the head and ask the second in command what the price is, rinse repeat as required......

Have you seen the cover of the black market book? This only works when you are the bad guys/crimnals but they already have that job. You pull a stunt like that on the BM well lets just say it will not be the smartest thing you ever done. But hey not like you have to live with it.

There is a reason people in that kind of buiness have "honor" or the appearence of honor. People will do this if they feel they are being $^%^%&^ed. Think about it, this kind of stuff happens. Now if the guy had say added +10% that would be reasonable, and likely the players could have paid it.

AND yes the BM might seek revenge, but also you kill the top guy and everyone gets promoted....

Well individual employees blowing a sale like that could find themselves killed by their own bosses, a little gouging on occasion might be tolerated but not when you're costing them a sale particularly expensive sales.

[boxee]

I agree.

[Blue_Lion]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

We once had a campaign where a character wanted some specific power armor and the BM quoted us some price. We raised the money and when we went back for the armor, they doubled the asking price. The character was pretty angry, but this is what happens when criminals have what you want and know that you can't get it anywhere else. It wasn't worth the new asking price, so we just didn't get the armor he wanted.

I don't remember ever having trouble getting or selling smaller stuff.

--flatline

Shoot him in the head and ask the second in command what the price is, rinse repeat as required......

Have you seen the cover of the black market book? This only works when you are the bad guys/crimnals but they already have that job. You pull a stunt like that on the BM well lets just say it will not be the smartest thing you ever done. But hey not like you have to live with it.

There is a reason people in that kind of buiness have "honor" or the appearence of honor. People will do this if they feel they are being $^%^%&^ed. Think about it, this kind of stuff happens. Now if the guy had say added +10% that would be reasonable, and likely the players could have paid it.

AND yes the BM might seek revenge, but also you kill the top guy and everyone gets promoted....

The guy was selling weapons and armor illgaly to compleate stangers. He is going to have armed guards you start shooting they start shooting.

Now if you read the BM book, you whould see that individual mercants run shops and pay the boss his doos. As long as he gets his money he does not care how they get it. You mess with his money he cares. BM charters can run shops they whould not be running shops if the big boss micromanged their sales. So as long as the shop keeper makes his payments up the chain, they do not care what if he makes a sale or not. So if the guy is gouging like that he probaly does not need the sale he already has his quota. He is now after his pocket cash, or he realy does not want to sell it to you he wants/needs it for something else but if you make it worth his while he will get rid of it.

[Dunia]

A somewhat related question, do people (CS, general people or mercs) actually know that Bandido Arms is part of Black market. In my campaign, I am downplaying this as much as possible. So that most people do not know it.

[dragonfett]

A somewhat related question, do people (CS, general people or mercs) actually know that Bandido Arms is part of Black market. In my campaign, I am downplaying this as much as possible. So that most people do not know it.

I honestly don't think any outside the BM (and even then only highly trusted people inside the organization) even know that fact.

[Subjugator]

Every time I see the title of this thread, I think of "Selling to the bowel movement."

/Sub

[flatline]

Yeah barter is far over looked.

For the blackmarket we have always said that what in short is worth the most ...ie war zones armor and arms are worth more than preRifts books.
Or areas low on food or ina drought then food and water become a premium and so on.

As for roleplaying i dont make players play out getting gas and food and basics but if you want a shiny mecha then for a good price you better rp it.

We once had a campaign where a character wanted some specific power armor and the BM quoted us some price. We raised the money and when we went back for the armor, they doubled the asking price. The character was pretty angry, but this is what happens when criminals have what you want and know that you can't get it anywhere else. It wasn't worth the new asking price, so we just didn't get the armor he wanted.

I don't remember ever having trouble getting or selling smaller stuff.

--flatline

Shoot him in the head and ask the second in command what the price is, rinse repeat as required......

I tend to shy away from unplanned violence. If the power armor had been on location, we could have tried taking it by force, I suppose. I don't remember if it was there or not. It was a long time ago.

--flatline

[Blue_Lion]

A somewhat related question, do people (CS, general people or mercs) actually know that Bandido Arms is part of Black market. In my campaign, I am downplaying this as much as possible. So that most people do not know it.

The idea I get is its kinda implied that there is a conection but not directly state. Probaly because they represent one of the main faimilies.

[boxee]

Sounds like the GM was just being a turd.

[flatline]

Sounds like the GM was just being a turd.

Maybe. I think he just wanted to use our need to do some serious fund raising as a hook for something, but we probably foiled that when we walked away from the deal.

--flatline

[Blue_Lion]

Sounds like the GM was just being a turd.

Maybe. I think he just wanted to use our need to do some serious fund raising as a hook for something, but we probably foiled that when we walked away from the deal.

--flatline

Well at least you had some major walking around cash.

[nilgravity]

I would also think Recognize Weapon Quality would give you a bonus when bartering because you know what it is you are getting.

[glitterboy2098]

A somewhat related question, do people (CS, general people or mercs) actually know that Bandido Arms is part of Black market. In my campaign, I am downplaying this as much as possible. So that most people do not know it.

The idea I get is its kinda implied that there is a conection but not directly state. Probaly because they represent one of the main faimilies.

i've generally figured Bandito Arms was just the most well known of the Grey Market companies. that all the different factions of the 'black market' have similar semi-legit businesses to help fund their more risky and less legal activities, and Bandito Arms just has more brand name recognition due to having a near monopoly in the New West.

[Nightmask]

A somewhat related question, do people (CS, general people or mercs) actually know that Bandido Arms is part of Black market. In my campaign, I am downplaying this as much as possible. So that most people do not know it.

The idea I get is its kinda implied that there is a conection but not directly state. Probaly because they represent one of the main faimilies.

i've generally figured Bandito Arms was just the most well known of the Grey Market companies. that all the different factions of the 'black market' have similar semi-legit businesses to help fund their more risky and less legal activities, and Bandito Arms just has more brand name recognition due to having a near monopoly in the New West.

You know, reading this I just got the sudden thought with how Palladium's apparently writing 'The Black Market' as if it were a 'found everywhere and all one connected company' to Pokemon with how you can always find a Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny wherever you go no matter how implausible or how big the handwave required for it.

[Blue_Lion]

A somewhat related question, do people (CS, general people or mercs) actually know that Bandido Arms is part of Black market. In my campaign, I am downplaying this as much as possible. So that most people do not know it.

The idea I get is its kinda implied that there is a conection but not directly state. Probaly because they represent one of the main faimilies.

i've generally figured Bandito Arms was just the most well known of the Grey Market companies. that all the different factions of the 'black market' have similar semi-legit businesses to help fund their more risky and less legal activities, and Bandito Arms just has more brand name recognition due to having a near monopoly in the New West.

You know, reading this I just got the sudden thought with how Palladium's apparently writing 'The Black Market' as if it were a 'found everyone and all one connected company' to Pokemon with how you can always find a Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny wherever you go no matter how implausible or how big the handwave required for it.

You just saying that because every town has a Black Market Sally and they all look the same.

[glitterboy2098]

the wonders of standardized Cybernetics..

but yeah, even with the recent book, 'the black market" is presented more as a centralized entity than in reality. in effect, the 'black market' organization in rifts has more in common with groups like the Mafia, the Triads, etc...

in real life it just refers to the import and sale of illegal goods and services. it is a concept not an organization.

[Blue_Lion]

the wonders of standardized Cybernetics..

but yeah, even with the recent book, 'the black market" is presented more as a centralized entity than in reality. in effect, the 'black market' organization in rifts has more in common with groups like the Mafia, the Triads, etc...

in real life it just refers to the import and sale of illegal goods and services. it is a concept not an organization.

Yea the BM book presented as a collection of crime sydnecates/famlies.

I think the the idea of it beeing one standard orginzation is because of gerlized rules for game mechanics. And that all refrences to buying and selling stuff illgally are called black market.