Robots versus magic

[AmberImmortal]

I'm having a problem figuring out whether or not robotics are good versus magic characters. Specifically, I need to know if robot exoskeletons/power armor characters have any resistance to spells and the like. If anyone could share some insight and/or refer me to a book and page that has an answer, I'd be most obliged.

[KillWatch]

I would rule not. They are not living creatures and therefore it is the same as casting a spell on a lamp

[NMI]

Well True Robots or Androids [anything without a pilot] would be and is, immune to any mind alter magic, illusions, etc... I dont think there is a specific book or page #, but this is constantly mentioned under various NPC's in the HU-verse.

[LeeNapier]

I'm having a problem figuring out whether or not robotics are good versus magic characters. Specifically, I need to know if robot exoskeletons/power armor characters have any resistance to spells and the like. If anyone could share some insight and/or refer me to a book and page that has an answer, I'd be most obliged.

(emphasis added)

I don't see why a guy in an exoskeleton or power armor would be any different than anyone else when it comes to resisting spells. It's a guy in a suit. Unless the suit is made out of an anti-magic material somehow, there's not going to be any difference whatsoever between that guy in his suit or out of it.

[flatline]

In Rifts, power armor (perhaps misguidedly) offers protection from a wide range of spells. Even some spells that bypass armor.

--flatline

[drewkitty ~..~]

Unlike the (I use the word stupid) rules about PA & Bots and magic in rifts, there are no rules about armor (of any sort) or vehicles blocking magic in HU.

NMI is correct that AI's are immune to magic that affects the mind.
In addition to that, they are immune to magic/psi that only affect subject that are alive.

[AmberImmortal]

Do you have a page number for that Flatline?

[flatline]

Do you have a page number for that Flatline?

I do not. Take a look at RUE p187-188. Obviously, armor and power armor protect against "touch". Some GM's interpret "line of sight" as being blocked by power armor (I disagree with this).

Some GM's read the section "Trying to cast magic from inside a vehicle or giant robot" and flip it around to mean that mages can't effect people or areas inside vehicles or giant robots.

But mostly I was thinking about spells that specifically say in their description that they are blocked by armor and/or power armor.

If there is a more definitive ruling, perhaps someone else can provide a citation for it.

--flatline

[Iczer]

It does kind of make sense though. Power armour is an enclosed, enviromentally sealed vehicle. the target inside is effectively the same as if he was inside a building. He's shielded on all sides, and enclosed, and you can't see him to target him.

Exoskeleton...not so much. even if completely enclosed he's just wearing some fancy armour. you can see him well enough to target.

Of course, spells taht are target-non specific should work just fine. Carpet of adhesion anyone?

Batts

[KillWatch]

except that completely enclosed is completely enclosed and unseen is still unseen

[flatline]

except that completely enclosed is completely enclosed and unseen is still unseen

Yet there's no doubt at all about where the target is. If seeing the target's face is somehow critical for the spell to work, does that mean that DBs that don't have faces are immune to the magic? What about people with bags over their heads?

--flatline

[Nightmask]

except that completely enclosed is completely enclosed and unseen is still unseen

By that rationale someone in a full body stocking like Spider-man would be just as immune, because he's completely enclosed and by your definition he's unseen even though he's clearly not. Body stocking, body armor, or power armor you can still be said to see them and they're all enclosed and no more reason to be shielded from spells that directly affect the living (unlike say a fireball) in the power armor than they would be in the body stocking.

[KillWatch]

I agree,... but at what point is that no longer true? How big can XO's be before they are considered PAs?

[AmberImmortal]

It's not about whether or not the person is enclosed. Bionics, true robots, androids, and the giant robot vehicle characters all seem to have at least some advantange vs magic. This is not just because there is nothing to target. They don't specifically mention it in Heroes unlimited (A small oversight by the creators, I believe) but, a mage can't wear full body armor, let alone full power armor. This is because it blocks the magic from being cast. It somehow stops it (Rifts Ultimate edition pg. 188-190) Would it not work both ways? I know that there are rules regarding exoskeletons vs magic. I simply cannot remember where the rules are. I've stumbled upon it twice but, for the life of me, can't remember which book or what page it was in/on. Why wold every type of cybernetics or robotics be resistant to magic except the Exoskelton/Power armor character?

[KillWatch]

I always thought is was a mobility issue,... but now it sounds stupid

[Iczer]

except that completely enclosed is completely enclosed and unseen is still unseen

If I wear a full body stocking, I'm completely unseen, but you would be able to tell where I am.

No so when I'm enclosed in a vehicle. (Albeit some window tinting would be needed) In something the size of a glitter boy you might as well be inside a steel box for all the wizard knows

Batts

[KillWatch]

but the comparison misses that the mage will know where you are. Unlike an actual box where you could be anywhere inside, the pilot is usually in one place. So is seeing knowing? Just to be clear you are saying that a 6' PA suit with a 6" pilot will be unaffected by certain spells

[AmberImmortal]

I think the reason that pilots in giant robots/vehicles are protected from spells is probably because they're behind several feet of machinery. It's the same reason you can't hit somebody behind a wall. However, seeing is a part of the process because you can hit somebody through a window with certain spells. Hitting somebody in armor is just like hitting a naked person with a spell. In this case,the armor is effectively the part of the person. Anything that's armor isn't just going to stop you from affecting them with spells. a large vehicle that hides the person from view may though. The robot exoskeleton is just armor. The giant robot is a vehicle, not a second skin and not, by any means, a part of the person piloting it. However, I'm still convinced that the exoskleton character has some measure of magic protection.

[Iczer]

but the comparison misses that the mage will know where you are. Unlike an actual box where you could be anywhere inside, the pilot is usually in one place. So is seeing knowing? Just to be clear you are saying that a 6' PA suit with a 6" pilot will be unaffected by certain spells

I'm saying if your powersuit is as big as you it's just an exoskeleton, not power armour.

Batts

[Nightmask]

Well True Robots or Androids [anything without a pilot] would be and is, immune to any mind alter magic, illusions, etc... I dont think there is a specific book or page #, but this is constantly mentioned under various NPC's in the HU-verse.

Environmental power armor protects the user inside armor from many more effects then people think. Since many spells require, line of sight, touch they would fail to effect the armors pilot.

Keep in mind that robots and machines are very different then magic.

A fire ball or lightning would still effect the robot, power armor or what ever... standard battle actions need to take place in this situation.

If you're standing around in power armor you're in someone's line of sight, power armor no more makes it impossible for someone to know where you're at to target you than your clothes would or do.

[flatline]

Well True Robots or Androids [anything without a pilot] would be and is, immune to any mind alter magic, illusions, etc... I dont think there is a specific book or page #, but this is constantly mentioned under various NPC's in the HU-verse.

Environmental power armor protects the user inside armor from many more effects then people think. Since many spells require, line of sight, touch they would fail to effect the armors pilot.

Keep in mind that robots and machines are very different then magic.

A fire ball or lightning would still effect the robot, power armor or what ever... standard battle actions need to take place in this situation.

If you're standing around in power armor you're in someone's line of sight, power armor no more makes it impossible for someone to know where you're at to target you than your clothes would or do.

Depends on the armor... Your head is not really in the head of the armor... you could sit in a rooster pit in the belly -- I suppose it is situational and the GM would have to determine the end result- Huh.

So if the GM rules that the mage needs to know the exact location of the target, have the spell fail if the mage guesses wrong.

--flatline

[drewkitty ~..~]

in HU just have the mage cast x ray vision... and problem solved. (or some other spell to make the target Transparent.

I had a HU char with X-ray vision and Telekinesis(as a super power)..... it was fun.

[KillWatch]

or let them know the schematics

[AmberImmortal]

I believe that the possible resistance to magic Power Armor *might* offer would have a lot more to do with the fact that man made materials block magic in some ways. Not a lot to do with line of sight.

[KillWatch]

how does that make sense to you? because they are "unnatural"? Then should it be pointed out somewhere that toasters get a +1 to save vs Magic

[KillWatch]

le Ugh

[AmberImmortal]

how does that make sense to you? because they are "unnatural"? Then should it be pointed out somewhere that toasters get a +1 to save vs Magic

They may get a resistance because you aren't casting they magic on the Suit. You're trying to cast it on the person inside. You're trying to cast through the armor. I imagine energy disruption would work as normal but fear might not because the magic is trying to push through the armor. You see what I'm saying?

Keep in mind that I'm still referring to robotic power armor/exoskeletons when I say "suit". Not business attire or spidey suits.

[flatline]

main reason robots are good for hunting mages = Robots are too heavy for mages to manipulate with most spells.

What do you mean? I don't think that most spells have weight limits, unless you're talking specifically about spells like TK, Levitate, and Featherweight.

--flatline

[AmberImmortal]

main reason robots are good for hunting mages = Robots are too heavy for mages to manipulate with most spells.

What do you mean? I don't think that most spells have weight limits, unless you're talking specifically about spells like TK, Levitate, and Featherweight.

--flatline

I don't know about weight but, robots are just immune to a lot of different spells

Fear
Befuddle
Paralysis:lesser/superior
charm
Charismatic aura
Horrific Illusion
Sleep
Words of truth..
..to name a few.

They're immune to all the mind altering and illusion spells. This is simply because they're robots and don't have a real brain to affect. Unless, that is you have an actual AI. Then they say that's you'd have at least a +2 to save. They recommend a +5 though (HU2 G.M's guide) . I'd say that's definitely an advantage.