determining the MECT of an IMU

[glitterboy2098]

ok, this is going to have a general and a specific question.

the general question is, if you've built an IMU, how do you determine what MECT gets used? is it an either or for the parts involved, or is there supposed to be some sort of hybridization going on? the book doesn't cover any of this.

the specific is one that has come up in a game i'm in. due to combat losses, we have a character that just lost his bioroid. the group engineer has suggested fitting the bioroid's brainwave control system to a Veritech hovertank that they can fix up.. though it might end up battloid only in the process*. since the Bioroid Interceptor uses a similar blend of master's BWCS annd human tech, he thinks it could work on a technical sense.
the question is, would that allow the bioroid pilot to use his Bioroid piloting and MECT to use the resulting IMU in combat?




*the group has access to two mostly functional VHT's, and the GM has said using parts from one the other could be brought online.. i suspect that unless we do really well on the repair and modification rolls we'll have to sacrifice functions,and transformation seems to be the most likely one to lose


edit: since i've had one person suggest using acronyms could get confusing (despite the fact i'm just using ones from the books)..
MECT = Mecha Elite Combat Training. basically the combat bonuses for a particular mecha.
IMU = Improvised Mecha Unit. any sort of cobbled together mecha using elements from multiple designs.
BWCS = brainwave control system. the helmet device that reads the thought commands of a bioroid pilot and translates that to inputs controlling a mecha.
VHT = Veritech Hovertank.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hmm... ordinarily I'd say go with the MECT for whichever contributed the majority of the parts for the IMU. However, in this case I'd say go with the Bioroid MECT for the resulting IMU because it's using bioroid controls.

[ShadowLogan]

I see three options, and they maybe a case-by-case basis when used:
1. Dominant mecha parts determine MECT (ex. AGAC/VHT IMUs in NG SB), even then bonuses may be modified due to changes (ex. Ares)
2. Hybridization is such no MECT skill exists (ex. M-32/Cyc IMU in NG SB) that covers operation.
3. the IMU is covered by one of the MECTs for the contributing mecha, but the bonuses progress differently (some mecha do fall under a blanket MECT, but each qualifying mecha has unique bonuses), requiring the GM to create new stats.

re/#2 I would not rule out spending a skill to create a MECT to apply to it (and similar enough designs), but those would require the GM to figure the bonuses just like in #3. Nor would I be opposed to having it fall under #3 after an acclimation period.

The Bioroid/VHT IMU suggested I would think comes under #2 since the VHT systems may not be able to provide the necessary feedback to the Bioroid controls.

[sirkermittsg]

My thoughts are this:
I think the piloting will be intuitive since a biroid pilot all ready knows how to pilot a hover vehicle and will have the thought controls from the biroid. Per the GM last night, the thought system is contained in the helmet which survived. So the character's existing skills should apply.

However the Hovertank is vastly different as far as combat. All the weapons are different. I will go with the Idea that the characters next OCC Related skill slot (at level 4) should go to MECT: THOUGHT CONTROLLED VHT-1. It will have the same bonuses that current VHT-1 MECT has. It will be a skill the character learns from trial and error.

I want to point out that the hovertank has more dexterity then a biroid and hence much higher bonuses in the mect. in fact I could see the case being made that the thought control should give the character even better bonuses then that because the mecha would respond even better to him then a "normal human" - say an additional +1.

[jedi078]

IMO some sort of 'MECT: Basic' skill is needed to cover the basic operation of stinger mecha.

Of course you would then have to factor in bonuses attained from specific components (too bad we didn't get a list of what bonuses were associated with specific components). For example a Zent fire control CPU would grant a those bonuses listed on page 151 of the Macross era book. Did you install a SHORAD radar? If so add in the bonuses specific to the SHORAD.

[jaymz]

General - I'd say the MECT should be of the unit that contributed the "main body" as that is what will likely determine the operating systems and control layouts. Everything else is essentially bolted on from there.

Specific - I'd say because of the control interface he would use his Bioroid MECT.

[glitterboy2098]

on the specific question; additional information found looking over the Master's saga book.
it seems MECT:bioroid is not mecha specific.. apparently the one skill applies to all the bioroids in the book..but the different types have different additional bonuses.
this is probably because they all are just comparatively minor variations on the same chassis and use the exact same control system, but it does make things more difficult when figuring out stuff.

a Tirolian legionnaire, Rules as Written, cannot pick up additional mecha and MECT skills.. they are specifically proscribed in the OCC related skills entry, and have never been available from Secondary Skills.


a comparison of a green bioroid (the one recently lost) to a VHT.
note these don't include other bonuses provided for specific weapons or from gear listed in the 'standard features' entry..

green bioroid
+1 attack at levels 3, 6, 9, and 12
+2 to strike (hand to hand)
+1 to strike (ranged)
+2 parry
+1 dodge
+2 pull punch
+1 roll with impact

veritech Hovertank
+1 attack at levels 1, 3, 6, 10, and 14
+2 on initiative
+3 to strike (hand to hand)
+2 to strike (ranged)
+4 to parry
+3 to dodge
+3 to disarm
+4 to pull punch
+3 to roll with impact

[jaymz]

Ok then I'd say keep the original green bioroid bonuses then as the pilot really doesn't really know the capabilites of the hovertank and would instinctualy pilot as he always would....

[sirkermittsg]

a Tirolian legionnaire, Rules as Written, cannot pick up additional mecha and MECT skills.. they are specifically proscribed in the OCC related skills entry, and have never been available from Secondary Skills.

from my point of view a characters level increasing OCC related and secondary skills are limited by what they do, but also by the teachers available to them. to me there has to be some justification as to why and how they learned the new skills.

for example: I justified my character's secondary skill of lore:masters through exposure to the biroid pilot (and biroid) that were in the group he was with. Our GM has stated that a successful skill roll against the lore:masters or lore:invid removes the alien technology penalty for my character's mechanical and electrical skills - this actually makes sense to me.

the masters did not have radiaclly different biroids so one mect could easily cover them all. thus I can see why they don't get more mecha piloting and mect skills.

However, the character in the above example like Zor Prime has a different exposure then the average biroid pilot. They are in the company of a diverse group of individuals. This Legionaire has access to human mecha and teachers much like Zor Prime did so I think he should have access to thouse mecha piloting skills. The show and the 2E RPG are very clear about the zentraedi being able to learn to pilot human mecha. It seems only fair that he can as well.

as to the mecha and bonuses: I think that as a result of the thought control system the character would have the biroid bonuses to use the hovertank if he don't burn a skill slot. I say this because the biroid does not have allot of built in weapons like the hovertank does. maybe with a +1 to dodge to reflect the extra agility of the hovertank.

but if a player were to burn a skill slot, I think the character should be able to get the mect bonuses of the hovertank with an additional +1 to dodge, parry, and strike. this would reflect the mecha responding better to him and his having spent a great deal of time practicing and getting more familure with the systems through practice and discussions (off camera) with the veritech pilots in the group.

I must say, I wish the MECT rules increased in bonuses with your skill level similar to your hand to hand skill. it makes sense to me that a Roy Fokker was better at dodging or parrying shots due to his years of training and experience then a Rick Hunter fresh out of the academy would have been.

[13eowulf]

Just my two cents on how I would handle this:

I would allow the pilot to use whichever MECT they had (provided that around 50% of IMU is made up of components from that mecha, or at least 34% if parts from more then two vehicles are used).
However I would also work out penalties that would also apply, due to the unique requirements for operation of the IMU. These penalties would apply until the character reaches their next level, at that time they would be given the option to change their MECT to the new IMU to eliminate the penalties.
However should they wish to switch back to a vehicle identical to the original they would again suffer penalties until the next level they reach when they would be given an opportunity to switch back to the original MECT.

I would only allow this for IMUs related to the original MECT, and not for switching to completely different Mecha type.

[ShadowLogan]

@glitterboy2098
I don't think I would allow this IMU to use a MECT right away. The VHT is going to handle and maneuver differently than what the bioroid pilot is used to (arm shields, the limbs may feel heavy as the VHT has more x2 mass than a 'roid) as the other 'roids may be close enough than transitioning is fairly simple.

Alternatively there is an option of using the generic MECT listed in the skill description in TSC RPG (manga pg 274), maybe slightly altered to adjust for the Bioroid Controls and VHT handling.

[Tiree]

First: MECT Basic does not need to exist in Robotech TSC. You get no penalties for piloting a Mecha of Robotech Nature, and thus you get your full HTH bonuses no matter what.

I personally agree with the Main Body/Controls being the MECT rating. In this case, the Main Body is going to be one, and the controls of the other. I would then create a new MECT but allow either MECT of mecha use it. In this case: A bioroid Pilot with MECT: Bioroid can use the mecha, and a VHT Pilot with MECT: Hovertanks can use the mecha. But they get the lowest set of bonuses that both Mecha get. If they have MECT for both mecha, then they would get the highest.