rifts transdimensional tmnt timetravel twist and cycles

[madmarvin]

using the twist rules for time from trandimensional tmnt and adjusting prime to 2012,
twist prime 2012
twist 1 - 2137 chaos earth
twist 2 - 2262 dark ages
twist 3 - 2387 rifts earth (101 PA)
twist 4 - 2513 (226 PA)
twist 5 - 2637 (351 PA)
twist 6 - 2762 (476 PA)
twist 7 - 2887 (601 PA)
twist 8 - 3012 no access time war - nothing past 3000 any attempt fails

heres the thing what do you think the rifts world will be like in twist 4,5,6,7
125 year, 250 years, 375 year, and 500 years from now.

[Killer Cyborg]

using the twist rules for time from trandimensional tmnt and adjusting prime to 2012,
twist prime 2012
twist 1 - 2137 chaos earth
twist 2 - 2262 dark ages
twist 3 - 2387 rifts earth (101 PA)
twist 4 - 2513 (226 PA)
twist 5 - 2637 (351 PA)
twist 6 - 2762 (476 PA)
twist 7 - 2887 (601 PA)
twist 8 - 3012 no access time war - nothing past 3000 any attempt fails

Cool!

heres the thing what do you think the rifts world will be like in twist 4,5,6,7
125 year, 250 years, 375 year, and 500 years from now.

No real way to tell, of course, but I optimistically tend to think....
Twist 4- The Coalition has been overthrown or has merged with other human-based powers that are more accepting of at least some races of D-Bee.
Twist 5- The new Coalition (or whatever they're called) have secured North America and most of Europe

Beyond that, it's really hard to tell. No telling what Atlantis and other major powers would be doing.
Or what new powers might be introduced.

[dragonfett]

using the twist rules for time from trandimensional tmnt and adjusting prime to 2012,
twist prime 2012
twist 1 - 2137 chaos earth
twist 2 - 2262 dark ages
twist 3 - 2387 rifts earth (101 PA)
twist 4 - 2513 (226 PA)
twist 5 - 2637 (351 PA)
twist 6 - 2762 (476 PA)
twist 7 - 2887 (601 PA)
twist 8 - 3012 no access time war - nothing past 3000 any attempt fails

heres the thing what do you think the rifts world will be like in twist 4,5,6,7
125 year, 250 years, 375 year, and 500 years from now.

What are the twist rules?

[Nekira Sudacne]

using the twist rules for time from trandimensional tmnt and adjusting prime to 2012,
twist prime 2012
twist 1 - 2137 chaos earth
twist 2 - 2262 dark ages
twist 3 - 2387 rifts earth (101 PA)
twist 4 - 2513 (226 PA)
twist 5 - 2637 (351 PA)
twist 6 - 2762 (476 PA)
twist 7 - 2887 (601 PA)
twist 8 - 3012 no access time war - nothing past 3000 any attempt fails

heres the thing what do you think the rifts world will be like in twist 4,5,6,7
125 year, 250 years, 375 year, and 500 years from now.

What are the twist rules?

Long story short, time isn't a straight line, it's more like a spiral, and it's easier to cross between certain dates than other dates

[dragonfett]

using the twist rules for time from trandimensional tmnt and adjusting prime to 2012,
twist prime 2012
twist 1 - 2137 chaos earth
twist 2 - 2262 dark ages
twist 3 - 2387 rifts earth (101 PA)
twist 4 - 2513 (226 PA)
twist 5 - 2637 (351 PA)
twist 6 - 2762 (476 PA)
twist 7 - 2887 (601 PA)
twist 8 - 3012 no access time war - nothing past 3000 any attempt fails

heres the thing what do you think the rifts world will be like in twist 4,5,6,7
125 year, 250 years, 375 year, and 500 years from now.

What are the twist rules?

Long story short, time isn't a straight line, it's more like a spiral, and it's easier to cross between certain dates than other dates

People tend to think of time as a straight line when it's more of like this wibbly wobbly, timey wimey... stuff.

[Tor]

It only gets worse when they talk about null time zones. I'm still not very clear on how those work.

For example: what happens if I have a magic mirror that is a link to an astral realm and I bring it into a null time zone... if I step through it, to which time in my zone am I stepping into?

As for 3012... we know there is a 'third millenial barrier' in the TMNT/ATB dimension... but does that also apply to the Rifts dimension? I'm not clear on that. It may be that such time barriers do not exist in other dimensions.

[The Beast]

using the twist rules for time from trandimensional tmnt and adjusting prime to 2012,
twist prime 2012
twist 1 - 2137 chaos earth
twist 2 - 2262 dark ages
twist 3 - 2387 rifts earth (101 PA)
twist 4 - 2513 (226 PA)
twist 5 - 2637 (351 PA)
twist 6 - 2762 (476 PA)
twist 7 - 2887 (601 PA)
twist 8 - 3012 no access time war - nothing past 3000 any attempt fails

heres the thing what do you think the rifts world will be like in twist 4,5,6,7
125 year, 250 years, 375 year, and 500 years from now.

What are the twist rules?

Long story short, time isn't a straight line, it's more like a spiral, and it's easier to cross between certain dates than other dates

People tend to think of time as a straight line when it's more of like this wibbly wobbly, timey wimey... stuff.

Well in this example a curled up garden hose made out of a Slinky would be better .

It only gets worse when they talk about null time zones. I'm still not very clear on how those work.

For example: what happens if I have a magic mirror that is a link to an astral realm and I bring it into a null time zone... if I step through it, to which time in my zone am I stepping into?

As for 3012... we know there is a 'third millenial barrier' in the TMNT/ATB dimension... but does that also apply to the Rifts dimension? I'm not clear on that. It may be that such time barriers do not exist in other dimensions.

I'd say that particular barrier exists only in that setting, but there isn't anything preventing a similar barrier in other settings. It doesn't have to be at the same time period either. For example, the Nightlords could have made one on Dark Day, thus preventing future time travelers from jumping prior to Dark Day and preventing it.

[dragonfett]

In Rifts, I would have to say that the Cataclysm would have a time barrier as well, preventing anyone from going to before then and trying to stop them. I don't see it as anything a sentient creature put up but rather a natural thing that happened when the world changed drastically.

And as for the wibbly wobbly timey wimey was something that Doctor Who had said, I just don't remember the exact way he had said it.

[Cybermancer]

In Rifts, I would have to say that the Cataclysm would have a time barrier as well, preventing anyone from going to before then and trying to stop them. I don't see it as anything a sentient creature put up but rather a natural thing that happened when the world changed drastically.

This is generally how I play it as well, you can travel forward to the coming of the Rifts but you can never get back again. So it's sort of a reverse time barrier. You can travel back to when the Rifts happen but not before. Contemporary characters can travel forward to after the coming of the rifts but can't get back to their own time again (sort of like Victor Lazlo).

I didn't always have this policy but after fooling around with a couple of different games that involved time travel and the Rifts world, it is the one I settled on.

[Glistam]

Rifts has so many options, and so many things going on in the background, that it's hard to forecast what the next 10-20 years would be like, let alone the next 150 to 600. I've tried a couple times now, but I just can't settle on which of all the many possibilities should "win" and become the dominant factor for the future. That said, here's sort of an outline that I envision for these future Twists:

Twist 4: Should be some sort of world-wide war, but versus whom? Xiticix? Atlantis? Demons/Deevils? The Lord of the Deep? Mrrlyn/Zazshan? Nyxla? The list goes on. The one thing I see here is that whoever the world is fighting against, all the old hatreds have been put aside in order to fight for survival. There is no more "Magic vs Tech" or "Human vs D-Bee," just "Us vs Them."

Twist 5: This should be the horrific aftermath of the war that consumed the world in Twist 4. The landscape is horrifically scarred from the fighting and is dotted with the broken husks/remnants of the tools used to fight the war. The war was "won," but at what cost? The few remaining survivors are fighting just to maintain their existence in this war-torn landscape. Of note here I think is that the magical energy has decreased significantly. Though still high compared to Twist 1, it is noticeably weaker when compared against Twists 2, 3, and 4. It's similar to the "Dark Ages" of Twist 2, but with less resources or hope.

Twist 6: Nature has begun to reclaim the land - the aftermath of the war can still be seen, but the land is healing. People and D-Bees are no longer scavenging alone or in small groups amongst the twisted relics of the past, but are beginning to form small communities and work together to survive.

Twist 7: With the struggle of the new dark ages behind them, and the spirit of cooperation developed during the war, Humans and D-Bees have started to rebuild civilization again. Magic and Tech, Human and D-Bee, all working together to reclaim the planet. Spirits and Hope are high all around.

[madmarvin]

Twist 4: Should be some sort of world-wide war, but versus whom? Xiticix? Atlantis? Demons/Deevils? The Lord of the Deep? Mrrlyn/Zazshan? Nyxla? The list goes on. The one thing I see here is that whoever the world is fighting against, all the old hatreds have been put aside in order to fight for survival. There is no more "Magic vs Tech" or "Human vs D-Bee," just "Us vs Them.".

I like the mechanoids, something almost every thing could get behind even the orbital communities.

Twist 5: This should be the horrific aftermath of the war that consumed the world in Twist 4. The landscape is horrifically scarred from the fighting and is dotted with the broken husks/remnants of the tools used to fight the war. The war was "won," but at what cost? The few remaining survivors are fighting just to maintain their existence in this war-torn landscape. Of note here I think is that the magical energy has decreased significantly. Though still high compared to Twist 1, it is noticeably weaker when compared against Twists 2, 3, and 4. It's similar to the "Dark Ages" of Twist 2, but with less resources or hope. .".

I think that even if magic has decreased slightly "because of a super ritual used to defeat the mechanoids" with a side effect of increasing the dimensional fabric from weak to strong, decreasing the amount of random rift activity. " the use of magic would be even more wide spread.

Twist 7: With the struggle of the new dark ages behind them, and the spirit of cooperation developed during the war, Humans and D-Bees have started to rebuild civilization again. Magic and Tech, Human and D-Bee, all working together to reclaim the planet. Spirits and Hope are high all around.

Think i'd make this twist 6

Twist 7 being the republic, a world government, power based on both magic and tech in equal amounts, with the entire world acting as one giant dimmensional market, like phaseworlds centre.

[taalismn]

[

Twist 7 being the republic, a world government, power based on both magic and tech in equal amounts, with the entire world acting as one giant dimmensional market, like phaseworlds centre.

I like it, but to preserve a sense of tension:
Said economic prosperity setting the Earth up for possible SERIOUS attention by the larger power blocs(such as an unheard-of joint Splugorth coalition) in the Megaverse, eager to seize this dimensional market-hub for themselves(note, however, at this point that the unified Earth has probably already beaten back a number of invasions and has been hammering/hammered on such problems as the Lord of the Deep).

[Tor]

*wonders if anyone will bring up how Vampire Kingdoms clarifies that backwards time travel is possible in Rifts*

the Nightlords could have made one on Dark Day, thus preventing future time travelers from jumping prior to Dark Day and preventing it.

Psh, that's a bit of a stretch, these guys aren't even described as knowing basic Temporal Magic (which only allows a barrier to be put up in a small area for a very short duration) much less Time Lord Magic (which is still only limited to a planet, for a rather short duration) much less a Millenial Barrier which blocks ALL TIME past a certain point, which is pretty huge.

Considering the amount of time after year 3000 is probably more than the amount of time from the big bang to dark day (unless the universe ends sooner, is our era middle-aged?) it might be a slightly easier task to prevent dark day preventions.

I wonder if this applies to travelling into the Void though. It might just take you to a dimension in which the Nightlords hadn't put up a barrier.

In Rifts, I would have to say that the Cataclysm would have a time barrier as well, preventing anyone from going to before then and trying to stop them. I don't see it as anything a sentient creature put up but rather a natural thing that happened when the world changed drastically.

Based on what? That's just convenient railroading, there'd be no reason I could see for this to happen.

you can travel forward to the coming of the Rifts but you can never get back again. So it's sort of a reverse time barrier.

I dunno, I think it'd be cool if there was a way to stop the Rifts but that there would be forces trying to prevent that since it could create paradoxes, or that the Rifts is seen as a boon in spite of the suffering.

Contemporary characters can travel forward to after the coming of the rifts but can't get back to their own time again (sort of like Victor Lazlo).

I think it was established somewhere that BtS isn't actually Rifts' past (though it shares a lot of things in common with it, much like HU/VU and TMNT/AtB do). I forget where, possibly Skraypers.

[The Beast]

*wonders if anyone will bring up how Vampire Kingdoms clarifies that backwards time travel is possible in Rifts*

the Nightlords could have made one on Dark Day, thus preventing future time travelers from jumping prior to Dark Day and preventing it.

Psh, that's a bit of a stretch, these guys aren't even described as knowing basic Temporal Magic (which only allows a barrier to be put up in a small area for a very short duration) much less Time Lord Magic (which is still only limited to a planet, for a rather short duration) much less a Millenial Barrier which blocks ALL TIME past a certain point, which is pretty huge.

And yet they did manage to make something that prevents inorganic material from coming to the NB dimension.

[Nightmask]

*wonders if anyone will bring up how Vampire Kingdoms clarifies that backwards time travel is possible in Rifts*

the Nightlords could have made one on Dark Day, thus preventing future time travelers from jumping prior to Dark Day and preventing it.

Psh, that's a bit of a stretch, these guys aren't even described as knowing basic Temporal Magic (which only allows a barrier to be put up in a small area for a very short duration) much less Time Lord Magic (which is still only limited to a planet, for a rather short duration) much less a Millenial Barrier which blocks ALL TIME past a certain point, which is pretty huge.

And yet they did manage to make something that prevents inorganic material from coming to the NB dimension.

Where was it written that the barrier that destroys inorganic matter from any other non-associated dimension was created by the Nightlords?

[The Beast]

*wonders if anyone will bring up how Vampire Kingdoms clarifies that backwards time travel is possible in Rifts*

the Nightlords could have made one on Dark Day, thus preventing future time travelers from jumping prior to Dark Day and preventing it.

Psh, that's a bit of a stretch, these guys aren't even described as knowing basic Temporal Magic (which only allows a barrier to be put up in a small area for a very short duration) much less Time Lord Magic (which is still only limited to a planet, for a rather short duration) much less a Millenial Barrier which blocks ALL TIME past a certain point, which is pretty huge.

And yet they did manage to make something that prevents inorganic material from coming to the NB dimension.

Where was it written that the barrier that destroys inorganic matter from any other non-associated dimension was created by the Nightlords?

...Due to the protective barriers erected by the Night Lords, only living things, organic material and magical articles can travel through those Rifts. Unliving things (including robots, cyborg limbs and all weapons) are disintergrated in transit; so does any artifical clothing...

[Tor]

they did manage to make something that prevents inorganic material from coming to the NB dimension.

That's impressive. As is destroying a Hades-like dimension.

But that's nothing compared to setting up a time barrier of that kind of magnitude.

[Nekira Sudacne]

they did manage to make something that prevents inorganic material from coming to the NB dimension.

That's impressive. As is destroying a Hades-like dimension.

But that's nothing compared to setting up a time barrier of that kind of magnitude.

actually, setting up a time barrier is pretty trivial. just cast the time barrier spell, then use an artifact or ward to make it permanent on that day. boom.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

*wonders if anyone will bring up how Vampire Kingdoms clarifies that backwards time travel is possible in Rifts*

the Nightlords could have made one on Dark Day, thus preventing future time travelers from jumping prior to Dark Day and preventing it.

Psh, that's a bit of a stretch, these guys aren't even described as knowing basic Temporal Magic (which only allows a barrier to be put up in a small area for a very short duration) much less Time Lord Magic (which is still only limited to a planet, for a rather short duration) much less a Millenial Barrier which blocks ALL TIME past a certain point, which is pretty huge.

And yet they did manage to make something that prevents inorganic material from coming to the NB dimension.

Where was it written that the barrier that destroys inorganic matter from any other non-associated dimension was created by the Nightlords?

...Due to the protective barriers erected by the Night Lords, only living things, organic material and magical articles can travel through those Rifts. Unliving things (including robots, cyborg limbs and all weapons) are disintergrated in transit; so does any artifical clothing...

I always thought that was the most bs rule around, right next to the one for palladium world, it's one rule I throw out the door, because a non-magical mdc creature or character would still be mdc in a sdc environment.
Sorry PCs carrying mdc stuff into a sdc environment is a fun adventure for all, sure the players have the upper hand in firepower and protection, but it puts a big bullseye on them too.

[Tor]

setting up a time barrier is pretty trivial. just cast the time barrier spell, then use an artifact or ward to make it permanent on that day. boom.

I suppose, for Time Lords... but since Nightlords at best only have access to the Temporal Magic version, that has a pathetic radius and they'd need to make some variant of it.

I didn't think of applying a permanence rune to the planetary time lord spell as a means of creating the third millenial barrier though, that's crafty.

This wouldn't work for the Nightlords' purpose of preventing Dark Day though. You could prevent time travelers from exiting your time, true, but not from going to another dimension, going back in time, then rifting back. Unless there was some kind of interdimensional version... but if you halted all time travel in every dimension, that might cause some angry forces to come after you.

I wish it was clearer how to work permanence wards, always a little bit mysterious how that works.

[Nekira Sudacne]

setting up a time barrier is pretty trivial. just cast the time barrier spell, then use an artifact or ward to make it permanent on that day. boom.

I suppose, for Time Lords... but since Nightlords at best only have access to the Temporal Magic version, that has a pathetic radius and they'd need to make some variant of it.

I didn't think of applying a permanence rune to the planetary time lord spell as a means of creating the third millenial barrier though, that's crafty.

This wouldn't work for the Nightlords' purpose of preventing Dark Day though. You could prevent time travelers from exiting your time, true, but not from going to another dimension, going back in time, then rifting back. Unless there was some kind of interdimensional version... but if you halted all time travel in every dimension, that might cause some angry forces to come after you.

I wish it was clearer how to work permanence wards, always a little bit mysterious how that works.

the resources of the nightlords can streach considerably beyond the abilities they themselves possess. Night Gnomes are almost always alchmists, providing ready access to ward and circle magic, and all of them have hoards of magic items, scrolls, and other objects of power. all it takes is for one time lord to scribe and lose a scroll with the temporal barrier spell for someone else to get access to it. to say nothing of the possibility of magic artifacts with similar powers. To say nothing of bribing/bargining/brainwashing a time lord or anyone else who does have a suitable item

It's true, Nightlords themselves cannot do it by themselves, but that hardly rules out them aquiring the means to do so from others.

Also, i'm not sure how you think the permanance ward is mysterious. the diabolist times the activation of the ward to coincide with the casting of the desired spell on it. boom. done.

[Tor]

That's certainly stretching the 'alchemist' flavour text for the Nignomes pretty far... I mean it could mean the Mystic China brand of alchemy rather than PF's...

But hey, if they're all Diabolist/Summoner/Wizard, this has suddenly made them much more appealing options as familiars.

the diabolist times the activation of the ward to coincide with the casting of the desired spell on it. boom. done.

I mean in terms of how the diabolist directs the ward to connect with the spell in question, I suppose. Like if someone had 'impervious to energy' and 'swim as a fish' both cast, and the ward only worked on one spell... maybe you use runes to write out which spell it's acting on?

[Kovoston]

How many of you actually have Time Travel in your games?

[Cybermancer]

As often as I can work it in.

[Nekira Sudacne]

That's certainly stretching the 'alchemist' flavour text for the Nignomes pretty far... I mean it could mean the Mystic China brand of alchemy rather than PF's...

But hey, if they're all Diabolist/Summoner/Wizard, this has suddenly made them much more appealing options as familiars.

I've been tempted to bring it up with my GM's on several occasions, but I tend to not like dice being thrown at me

the diabolist times the activation of the ward to coincide with the casting of the desired spell on it. boom. done.

I mean in terms of how the diabolist directs the ward to connect with the spell in question, I suppose. Like if someone had 'impervious to energy' and 'swim as a fish' both cast, and the ward only worked on one spell... maybe you use runes to write out which spell it's acting on?[/quote]

Will and Intent has always been discribed as part of the key ingridents to make magic work of all types. whichever one the diabolist wants is it becasue that's the one he wants. he dosn't have to outwardly specify it I don't think.

[madmarvin]

after reading transdimensional Tmnt again I think attempts to stop the cataclysm would either fail or it would happen differently but with the same effect, I think the quote was time will heal its self, another possibility is that they trigger a alternative reality where the cataclysm never happened. of coarse it would involve them being captured and experimented on first. lol. before they where believed.

[Tor]

after reading transdimensional Tmnt again I think attempts to stop the cataclysm would either fail or it would happen differently but with the same effect

Why? Time doesn't naturally right itself, there isn't fate.

There are some Time Lords (both pre-barrier and probably post-barrier) who have spells and technology to correct changes to the timestream to stabilize history, but they are only mentioned as existing in the TMNT dimension, not other dimensions.

Unless we invent timekeepers for the Rifts dimension (maybe Zurvan?) the only way to draw in those from other dimensions is if the changes to the Rifts timeline might potentially cascade into other dimensions and affect them too.