neo-human race

[madmarvin]

what abilities would the neo-human race have? one of my players wants to play neo-human but apply a different P.C.C. to that race.

i'm thinking transformation and long life for sure, possible mind/wave, with the hrper telekinesis, telekinetic flight, and touch of health/death and the other psionic powers, being all O.C.C. powers.


another thing I was thinking after reading phase world pg26 and the prometheans and how they can sacrifice a skill to get either a temporal spell or a phase ability. that if I let a race that sacrificed R.C.C. powers to take a different O.C.C. that id allow them to take them at the cost of one skill each.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The Psi powers listed in the Racial text for NH's are the NH racial powers. To have different powers The PLAYER would need to give up the char's racial powers.

Reasoning: If the char has his racial powers then other powers can't be developed.
Canon Example: Some dog boys do not develop the Racial Psi Powers, but do develop other Psi powers. I believe this option is found in the optional mutation table.

[Tor]

The Dog Boy situation isn't something that applies to this situation. That's a dog boy who is born with sensitive and born with physical if I recall.

Dog Boys can change their OCC to do stuff like learn magic and even psionics, and so can Neo-Humans.

[MADMANMIKE]

The Dog Boy situation isn't something that applies to this situation. That's a dog boy who is born with sensitive and born with physical if I recall.

Dog Boys can change their OCC to do stuff like learn magic and even psionics, and so can Neo-Humans.

Tor's statement is in no way close to canon. What is canon is this: unless stated otherwise in the R.C.C. description, no R.C.C. can take a different O.C.C. or power set than what is listed.

That said, if you are the G.M., what you decide goes. I would suggest if your player want's an uber-powerful multi-class character, check out Conversion Book II and the Demi-God class..

[Tor]

Tor's statement is in no way close to canon.

My answer is completely canon.

http://palladiumbooks.com/questions/noncombat.html says "Characters that wish to learn a new O.C.C. must first advance at least one level in their current P.C.C./R.C.C."

What is canon is this: unless stated otherwise in the R.C.C. description, no R.C.C. can take a different O.C.C. or power set than what is listed.

Do you have a source to support that? I don't think the rules actually support you here. Awaiting where it says this can't happen.

The real rule is: unless it says an RCC can't take a particular OCC (or it forbids OCCs in general forever) then they can.

A clear example of this is how Draconids can be Phase Mystics yet it doesn't mention that under their RCC description. That's because they can't START as them, but they can change their OCC to it later.

[MADMANMIKE]

Tor's statement is in no way close to canon.

My answer is completely canon.

http://palladiumbooks.com/questions/noncombat.html says "Characters that wish to learn a new O.C.C. must first advance at least one level in their current P.C.C./R.C.C."

Your confusion over the nature of "Megaversal System" is common, so let me explain it to you; Megaversal means characters from one setting can easily be converted to use with the rules from another setting. It does not mean one set of rules for all the settings. Each game has rules that are setting specific and not meant to be used in other settings (like the multiple O.C.C. rules from Palladium Fantasy {a skills-light game}). I can recall at least twice when Kev and I together explained this to a group of people at the Palladium Booth this year at GenCon.

That said, the number one rule of any game is to have fun. So if you (as a G.M.) want to mix rules from one setting to the other, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't make it canon to do so.

The F.A.Q. answers are written by volunteers taking the 'have fun' rule into consideration, and like books written by C.J. Carella and Bill Coffin, mistakes, inconsistencies and power creep are going to seep through.

Your quote is cherry picked; the key text is this:

26. How many times can you change an OCC? When you change how many skills do you get and from what OCC skills, related or secondary?
Answer: Treat multiple O.C.C.s in Rifts as you would in Palladium. Characters that wish to learn a new O.C.C. must first advance at least one level in their current P.C.C./R.C.C….

This F.A.Q. doesn't address canon rules on whether or not you can change O.C.C.s in RIFTS (that wasn't the question presented), it offers an option on how to do it by using the rules that are canon in Palladium Fantasy. Kevin has stated what should be obvious; that "RIFTS characters are comprehensive well-rounded characters with skills that represent a lifetime devotion to an occupation and years of training before becoming a 1st level character."

Likewise, a pertinent excerpt from the actual text of the Palladium Fantasy Multiple O.C.C.'s rules:

Note:… In most cases, each Occupational Character Class is very specialized and often requires years of specialized training and dedication to master that O.C.C. thus, one cannot bounce back and forth, the player must make a choice for his character and stick with it.

To change character classes is to give short shrift to the role-play aspect of the game.

Do you have a source to support that? I don't think the rules actually support you here. Awaiting where it says this can't happen.

The real rule is: unless it says an RCC can't take a particular OCC (or it forbids OCCs in general forever) then they can.

R.C.C. defined:

"Racial Character Classes are basically a secondary kind of character class. The Rifts® world is heavily populated by inhuman creatures, many of which are available as Racial Character Classes. Some R.C.C.s allow the character to go on and select an O.C.C. as well, while other R.C.C.s do not. When selecting an R.C.C., be sure to read its description carefully to see if other O.C.C. selections are permitted. In cases where the possibility of additional O.C.C. selection is unclear, the G.M. has the final say."

That doesn't say "other O.C.C. selections are permitted unless otherwise stated." It clearly addresses that the R.C.C. description will tell you if other O.C.C. selections are permitted, and adds the "G.M. has the final say." rule to prevent arguments and stop someone from reading between the lines what isn't there..

And since you are fond of quoting outdated books:

"For the sake of simplicity, each player selects one Occupational Character Class (O.C.C.) or one Racial Character Class (R.C.C.). Each character class will describe the hero's background, orientation, typical views of life, his/her position in society, special powers (if any), and training/skills.

While I acknowledge the above quote wasn't carried over to RIFTS: Ultimate Edition, it wasn't replaced with text that stated the opposite is now true..

And finally (again), rule number one of any game: Have Fun.

If a G.M. decides it's okay in their game, then they can allow it. <-- also a direct quote from Kev, as many on these boards can attest to; he's said it at every Open House and I'm sure many conventions over the years.

[Tor]

Your confusion over the nature of "Megaversal System" is common, so let me explain it to you; Megaversal means characters from one setting can easily be converted to use with the rules from another setting. It does not mean one set of rules for all the settings.

Megaversal is not an adjective that appears on the page I cited. These are rules that apply to all settings.

Each game has rules that are setting specific and not meant to be used in other settings (like the multiple O.C.C. rules from Palladium Fantasy {a skills-light game}). I can recall at least twice when Kev and I together explained this to a group of people at the Palladium Booth this year at GenCon.

PF is where the rule originated, its introduction into the FAQ makes it apply to all settings.

That said, the number one rule of any game is to have fun. So if you (as a G.M.) want to mix rules from one setting to the other, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't make it canon to do so.

It is canon because this is an FAQ for all settings.

I mean heck, Neo-Humans are specifically referenced on this FAQ as being able to switch OCCs. "Yes they can elect to take a O.C.C. at a later level. Use the rules for changing O.C.C."

The F.A.Q. answers are written by volunteers taking the 'have fun' rule into consideration, and like books written by C.J. Carella and Bill Coffin, mistakes, inconsistencies and power creep are going to seep through.

I don't care who wrote them, Palladium shouldn't publish FAQs unless they look them over first. FAQs published by Palladium are interpreted as canonical. If they don't want that, then if they host online fan-written FAQs (if that's indeed what those are) they should note "hey these aren't official answers, they're optional answers written by fans" or something. There is no inconsistency about multiple OCC rules, it explains many characters in Rifts who have them.

Your quote is cherry picked; the key text is this:

26. How many times can you change an OCC? When you change how many skills do you get and from what OCC skills, related or secondary?
Answer: Treat multiple O.C.C.s in Rifts as you would in Palladium. Characters that wish to learn a new O.C.C. must first advance at least one level in their current P.C.C./R.C.C….

This F.A.Q. doesn't address canon rules on whether or not you can change O.C.C.s in RIFTS (that wasn't the question presented), it offers an option on how to do it by using the rules that are canon in Palladium Fantasy.

The nature of the answer (giving rules instead of say 'no you can't do that canonically') makes it clear you CAN do this in Rifts.

Kevin has stated what should be obvious; that "RIFTS characters are comprehensive well-rounded characters with skills that represent a lifetime devotion to an occupation and years of training before becoming a 1st level character."

Clearly it doesn't always take as many years of training to acquire subsequent OCCs (probably because you have base of learning). Obviously it doesn't take that many years if there are level 4 ley line walkers floating around who're 12.

Likewise, a pertinent excerpt from the actual text of the Palladium Fantasy Multiple O.C.C.'s rules:

Note:… In most cases, each Occupational Character Class is very specialized and often requires years of specialized training and dedication to master that O.C.C. thus, one cannot bounce back and forth, the player must make a choice for his character and stick with it.

That was written in 1996, clearly the FAQ updated in 2002 supercedes that. Or, perhaps the harder rules only apply to PF and the broader rules apply to other games.

To change character classes is to give short shrift to the role-play aspect of the game.

R.C.C. defined:

"Racial Character Classes are basically a secondary kind of character class. The Rifts® world is heavily populated by inhuman creatures, many of which are available as Racial Character Classes. Some R.C.C.s allow the character to go on and select an O.C.C. as well, while other R.C.C.s do not. When selecting an R.C.C., be sure to read its description carefully to see if other O.C.C. selections are permitted. In cases where the possibility of additional O.C.C. selection is unclear, the G.M. has the final say."

That doesn't say "other O.C.C. selections are permitted unless otherwise stated." It clearly addresses that the R.C.C. description will tell you if other O.C.C. selections are permitted, and adds the "G.M. has the final say." rule to prevent arguments and stop someone from reading between the lines what isn't there..

GMs have the final say on everything, and must have a say to fill in undefined things, but this "select" clearly refers to whether or not you can START with an OCC, not whether or not you can get one later, like how most dragons can't start with an OCC but they can pretty much all get'm later in time.

since you are fond of quoting outdated books:

"For the sake of simplicity, each player selects one Occupational Character Class (O.C.C.) or one Racial Character Class (R.C.C.). Each character class will describe the hero's background, orientation, typical views of life, his/her position in society, special powers (if any), and training/skills.

That's clearly talking about creating characters to begin with.

While I acknowledge the above quote wasn't carried over to RIFTS: Ultimate Edition, it wasn't replaced with text that stated the opposite is now true..

Numerous examples not only show that multiple OCCs are possible, but that you can even pretty much start as 2 things in one (Zapper Momanos anyone?)

If a G.M. decides it's okay in their game, then they can allow it. <-- also a direct quote from Kev, as many on these boards can attest to; he's said it at every Open House and I'm sure many conventions over the years.

lol stuff like this doesn't even need to be said, does he think people would otherwise by worried about modifying his rules during play like they might get a nasty phonecall about doubling the SDC of dwarves or something?

[MADMANMIKE]

Your confusion over the nature of "Megaversal System" is common, so let me explain it to you; Megaversal means characters from one setting can easily be converted to use with the rules from another setting. It does not mean one set of rules for all the settings.

Megaversal is not an adjective that appears on the page I cited. These are rules that apply to all settings.

Each game has rules that are setting specific and not meant to be used in other settings (like the multiple O.C.C. rules from Palladium Fantasy {a skills-light game}). I can recall at least twice when Kev and I together explained this to a group of people at the Palladium Booth this year at GenCon.

PF is where the rule originated, its introduction into the FAQ makes it apply to all settings.

That said, the number one rule of any game is to have fun. So if you (as a G.M.) want to mix rules from one setting to the other, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't make it canon to do so.

It is canon because this is an FAQ for all settings.

I mean heck, Neo-Humans are specifically referenced on this FAQ as being able to switch OCCs. "Yes they can elect to take a O.C.C. at a later level. Use the rules for changing O.C.C."

The F.A.Q. answers are written by volunteers taking the 'have fun' rule into consideration, and like books written by C.J. Carella and Bill Coffin, mistakes, inconsistencies and power creep are going to seep through.

I don't care who wrote them, Palladium shouldn't publish FAQs unless they look them over first. FAQs published by Palladium are interpreted as canonical. If they don't want that, then if they host online fan-written FAQs (if that's indeed what those are) they should note "hey these aren't official answers, they're optional answers written by fans" or something. There is no inconsistency about multiple OCC rules, it explains many characters in Rifts who have them.

Your quote is cherry picked; the key text is this:

26. How many times can you change an OCC? When you change how many skills do you get and from what OCC skills, related or secondary?
Answer: Treat multiple O.C.C.s in Rifts as you would in Palladium. Characters that wish to learn a new O.C.C. must first advance at least one level in their current P.C.C./R.C.C….

This F.A.Q. doesn't address canon rules on whether or not you can change O.C.C.s in RIFTS (that wasn't the question presented), it offers an option on how to do it by using the rules that are canon in Palladium Fantasy.

The nature of the answer (giving rules instead of say 'no you can't do that canonically') makes it clear you CAN do this in Rifts.

Kevin has stated what should be obvious; that "RIFTS characters are comprehensive well-rounded characters with skills that represent a lifetime devotion to an occupation and years of training before becoming a 1st level character."

Clearly it doesn't always take as many years of training to acquire subsequent OCCs (probably because you have base of learning). Obviously it doesn't take that many years if there are level 4 ley line walkers floating around who're 12.

Likewise, a pertinent excerpt from the actual text of the Palladium Fantasy Multiple O.C.C.'s rules:

Note:… In most cases, each Occupational Character Class is very specialized and often requires years of specialized training and dedication to master that O.C.C. thus, one cannot bounce back and forth, the player must make a choice for his character and stick with it.

That was written in 1996, clearly the FAQ updated in 2002 supercedes that. Or, perhaps the harder rules only apply to PF and the broader rules apply to other games.

To change character classes is to give short shrift to the role-play aspect of the game.

R.C.C. defined:

"Racial Character Classes are basically a secondary kind of character class. The Rifts® world is heavily populated by inhuman creatures, many of which are available as Racial Character Classes. Some R.C.C.s allow the character to go on and select an O.C.C. as well, while other R.C.C.s do not. When selecting an R.C.C., be sure to read its description carefully to see if other O.C.C. selections are permitted. In cases where the possibility of additional O.C.C. selection is unclear, the G.M. has the final say."

That doesn't say "other O.C.C. selections are permitted unless otherwise stated." It clearly addresses that the R.C.C. description will tell you if other O.C.C. selections are permitted, and adds the "G.M. has the final say." rule to prevent arguments and stop someone from reading between the lines what isn't there..

GMs have the final say on everything, and must have a say to fill in undefined things, but this "select" clearly refers to whether or not you can START with an OCC, not whether or not you can get one later, like how most dragons can't start with an OCC but they can pretty much all get'm later in time.

since you are fond of quoting outdated books:

"For the sake of simplicity, each player selects one Occupational Character Class (O.C.C.) or one Racial Character Class (R.C.C.). Each character class will describe the hero's background, orientation, typical views of life, his/her position in society, special powers (if any), and training/skills.

That's clearly talking about creating characters to begin with.

While I acknowledge the above quote wasn't carried over to RIFTS: Ultimate Edition, it wasn't replaced with text that stated the opposite is now true..

Numerous examples not only show that multiple OCCs are possible, but that you can even pretty much start as 2 things in one (Zapper Momanos anyone?)

If a G.M. decides it's okay in their game, then they can allow it. <-- also a direct quote from Kev, as many on these boards can attest to; he's said it at every Open House and I'm sure many conventions over the years.

lol stuff like this doesn't even need to be said, does he think people would otherwise by worried about modifying his rules during play like they might get a nasty phonecall about doubling the SDC of dwarves or something?

Wow. Last time I take the bait. You asked where the source was, and I gave it to you. Clearly you're only interested in trying to convince the world that it is the way you see it, so good luck with that.

[Tor]

I asked for a source to support your "unless stated otherwise in the R.C.C. description, no R.C.C. can take a different O.C.C. or power set than what is listed" assertion. The source you provided didn't do that, and I was explaining why. That isn't 'bait'.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I asked for a source to support your "unless stated otherwise in the R.C.C. description, no R.C.C. can take a different O.C.C. or power set than what is listed" assertion. The source you provided didn't do that, and I was explaining why. That isn't 'bait'.

You said it wrong, but it is not unexpected due to the Bad Labeling Styles the PB use(d).

Concept correctly stated.
Unless a permission is listed in the Racial description, a Race with an associated RCC can not (with in canon) take another class.
_____________________________________

@Rappanui: Nope, races with racial powers that dictate their class (and PCC's) can not change their class.
They would need for those powers stripped from the char for the char to change class. This is because "The Nature of the Character" which dictates that they can't change. So unless they change "All The Way" cause they can not continue in their RCC (or PCC) because they do not have the powers that dictated their nature anymore.

However, if you just want to add a MOS-like skill set that would not be contrary to the published canon rules.

[Tor]

See I never got that impression, that always seemed to be about default OCCs, not "can never take an OCC ever". Races without mention just don't start with them, obv, since there are guys like dragons who end up with OCCs eventually.

[drewkitty ~..~]

See I never got that impression, that always seemed to be about default OCCs, not "can never take an OCC ever". Races without mention just don't start with them, obv, since there are guys like dragons who end up with OCCs eventually.

*yawn* you are talking about a different type of RCC then I am. Yes, there are Multiple types of RCC's.
Which is why talking about this with newbs or rifters is such a hassle. They have not experience or inclination to recognize or really think aboutthe those differences.

Type 1 RCC: Every member has to have this class because their racial powers dictate they have to take it. Silhouettes and Neo-Humans have their RCCs dictated to them because of their racial powers.
Type 2: Most of the races have this class because it reflects their way of life and has no powers dictation that they have to take it.

Dragons are a bad example for RCCs because they are a rule/class unto themselves. Because of their starting skills they are only loosely refereed to as RCCs.

Then there is that to start off PCC's were mislabeled as RCC's. (With RUE PCC's are now mislabeled as OCC's. )

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is no Rule against RCC hybrids, They exist, And are pretty common. for Example, a Neo human Cosmo Knight is Totally Legal.
Would a GM allow it? probably Not.
there is no limitation on who can be a witch, as long as they have a soul, And are capable of entering unions of the supernatural.

Let me say that in a concept corrected statement.
'There is no rule against Race-Class combinations.'

Unfortunately the example used is bad. Besides the Neo-Humans having a mandatory RCC, the turning into a Cosmo Knight overwrites whatever the char was before being a CK.

A good example would be a Dogboy Wizard.

[Tor]

Silhouettes and Neo-Humans have their RCCs dictated to them because of their racial powers.

So do Draconids, yet they can change to the Phase Mystic OCC, even though that's not noted under the RCC at all.

Dragons are a bad example for RCCs because they are a rule/class unto themselves. Because of their starting skills they are only loosely refereed to as RCCs.

I don't know where you get that impression, how is starting with skills not an RCC?

Then there is that to start off PCC's were mislabeled as RCC's. (With RUE PCC's are now mislabeled as OCC's. )

Can we stop it with the mis- part? It was intentional for Kevin both to call it an RCC and an OCC, clearly experimenting with PCC in PF2nd didn't sit well with him.

This hasn't introduced any new problems that didn't already exist with Techno-Wizards, Operators and Cyber-Knights, who have always been OCCs: whether you get the psi if you're a "none" psionics race, and whether you can be the OCC at all if you lack them.

The answer to the 2nd seems to be yes, since Devilmen can be Cyber-Knights, but I'm unclear if they get the sword.

turning into a Cosmo Knight overwrites whatever the char was before being a CK.

"the skills of his past life are lost" would only mean skills, not powers

[drewkitty ~..~]

Dragons are a bad example for RCCs because they are a rule/class unto themselves. Because of their starting skills they are only loosely refereed to as RCCs.

I don't know where you get that impression, how is starting with skills not an RCC?

You are not reading what I said and connecting it to what the text about dragons. No I am not going to state things here so you don't have to get off your lazy democrat and read the dragon text, and actually THINK about what the dragon's starting skills really are.

I am sick of you not getting off your lazy mental democrat and think about things objectively and critically. Failing to make the connections to text in other books.

Draconoids: yes, there are exception to the rules. Duh! Just because there are exceptions does not make the rules invalid?

If PCC's are not labeled as PCC's then they are mislabeled. That is the bare bones truth. You just accept that YOU will not change me from Stating that Bare Bones Truth. I've been Stating this for Quite a while and if nobody else could stop me then what chance do you think you have. "A snowflake's chance in a plasma furnace." sounds about right phrasing.

[drewkitty ~..~]

none of the Mutants in S.A. are PCCs, they are all mutants because of genetics.

And all of them (R:SA2) have mandatory RCC's that they can't change from because the RCC's are Also PCC's. If you did not see that, then you need to go back and do your critical thinking.

PCC's can't change classes because the only published changing class rules are in the PFRPG setting where it is directly stated in the PF MB that PCC's can not change their class. And the only published text about changing class in the rifts books says to use the PFRPG changing class rules, (in the HighSeas book.) Which only cover OCC's.

[Tor]

I am not going to state things here so you don't have to get off your lazy democrat and read the dragon text, and actually THINK about what the dragon's starting skills really are. I am sick of you not getting off your lazy mental democrat and think about things objectively and critically.

I don't really appreciate the constant insinuations you keep making that I am not thinking, or that I am lazy. I find them insulting, and would request you not speak like that to others, it harms our cohesive sense of comradery.

The assumptions you are making are false. I have read many texts about dragons in Palladium numerous times, and do think about them. If we come to different conclusions, you may well be right, and I may well be mis-remembering. But flawed memories are not a result of laziness, nor does it mean people do not engage in critical and objective thinking about the things they read.

I would appreciate you give the benefit of the doubt and, if you don't wish to look up text to support your conclusions during controversial arguments, simply not respond, rather than condemning something for not knowing where to look for the special bit of information you believe is there.

Draconoids: yes, there are exception to the rules. Duh! Just because there are exceptions does not make the rules invalid?

They are not listed as being 'exceptions' though, which implies they are doing something basically any RCC could.

If PCC's are not labeled as PCC's then they are mislabeled. That is the bare bones truth.

Who gets to decide what a PCC is, you or Kev?

You just accept that YOU will not change me from Stating that Bare Bones Truth. I've been Stating this for Quite a while and if nobody else could stop me then what chance do you think you have. "A snowflake's chance in a plasma furnace." sounds about right phrasing.

Dat's a big S bro.

all of them (R:SA2) have mandatory RCC's that they can't change from because the RCC's are Also PCC's. If you did not see that, then you need to go back and do your critical thinking.

We can see your argument while still pointing out that PCC is not a term used in Rifts, and whether to use OCC/PCC/RCC for psionic classes has never really been consistent within the Palladium Megaverse.

PCC's can't change classes because the only published changing class rules are in the PFRPG setting where it is directly stated in the PF MB that PCC's can not change their class.

That only applies to things which are specifically labelled as PCCs, not classes YOU determine to be PCCs. Furthermore, those disclaimers are within the classes themselves (ie they only apply to those particular PCCs) and are not statements that describe ALL the PCCs (so it would not prohibit Nightbane PCCs from changing) as you seem to conclude, although I do appreciate you thinking it a realistic implication.

The first edition version of the Mind Mage (which was an OCC) or Mind Mages in other systems (such as the Pucara Mind Mage in SA2) can certainly changes their classes. As can any PCCs without the "can't change classes" disclaimer since there has not been, to my recollection, a universal statement prohibiting PCCs from changing classes.

the only published text about changing class in the rifts books says to use the PFRPG changing class rules, (in the HighSeas book.) Which only cover OCC's.

Published text is not the only canonical material. The Cutting Room Floor material is canon. Including the Dual OCCs errata which covers not only OCCs, but also RCCs.

Furthermore, it also covers PCCs, because it includes the phrase " The character must earn experience points equal to the new O.C.C.'s second level (if Men of arms or adventurers) or third level (if magical or psychic)." the last word clearly indicating PCCs. PCCs are also specifically defined as a form of OCC (meaning they are not non-OCCs) within Palladium Fantasy RPG Second Edition. Kev could've done a better job of making it more obvious (since people keep assuming it is a completely different thing) and the difficulty of making it more obvious and stopping people from making these assumptions is probably what led to him dropping the use of PCC/RCC in RUE.

From the Third (October 1998) printing of PFRPG 2nd Ed
Page 8's Quick Find says "Tables: Experience Tables by OCC" even though PCCs are also listed there, because PCCs are OCCs.
Page 14 says PCC "applies to characters who have psychic powers and OCCUPATIONS that utilize those powers"
Page 20 under "How to Determin Psionics" says "the first, and simplest way, is to selct one of the psychic Occupational Character Classes, like the Mind Mage OCC"
Page 62 lists "Psychics" under "List of OCCs" because PCCs are OCCs.
Page 155 under "Who Has Psionic Powers" uses the phrase "characters of other OCCs" rather than "characters of OCCs". The use of "other" means that PCCs are also OCCs. Under "Savings Throws Against Psionic Attacks" it says "Master psionic characters, including all psychic OCCs or PCCs, need to roll a 10 or higher" because "psychic OCC" is what PCC means. PCCs are always OCCs. PCC or 'psychic character class' is an ABBREVIATION because sometimes the O/Occupation is left out for space-saving considerations, but it's always there.

On page 157 it goes on to list OCC Skills and OCC Related Skills for the Psychic Sensitive. It also does that on page 159 for the Psi-Healer, and on page 160 for the Psi-Mystic, and on page 162 for the Mind Mage.

All four of the PF2nd PCCs (Sensitives, Healers, Mystics and Mages) are Occupations. But they each have a restriction that prevents them from selecting Multiple OCCs, for whatever reason. I don't know what that reason is, but it only applies to them. If it were to apply to all PCCs then it would have been more efficient to simply include the disclaimer once, in the PCC section, rather than printing it four times under each class.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In the Rifts Africa book it says that Mind Bleeders are from a human looking alien race. So....Mind Bleeder is an RCC.

Let me correct the concept of the PS comments...
Only psi-stalkers can become Psi-Slayers and psycho juicers. Because they are Psi-stalker RCC's.

Please please please Do your Critical Reading before you post.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Atlanteans can be mind bleeders, so can a number of other books, Psyscape does away with the PCC being an alien race.

Note: PCC's are Psychic Char Classes, there has never been any requirement for them to be a alien race.
(They are not Races nor Racial char classes. There are some RCC's that are also PCC's because they are RCC's of Psychic races. See RSA2 for multiple examples.)

Suuuuurrrrrre there can be Atlantean Mind Bleeders....if there are members of the Mind Bleeder Race on Atlantis and have taken citizen ship under splen (however you spell it's name.)


Now if you are talking about True Atlanteans, then state the Book Page Paragraph where it says what you claim. (It is 'your claim', so You get to do the work of finding the specific reference that will support 'your claim')

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip....
Psyscape reprints the mind bleeder occ without the Alien origin.

The Mind Bleeder is an almost compleatly human looking D-Bee.

It is Presented as a RCC because that is what the class is.
--------
It seams to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.
----------------------------
Course if there was a ninja revision in one of the later printings, I would not know it cause I have the 1st printing of psyscape. *pokes at the people with later editions* what do they say?

[MADMANMIKE]

It seems to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.

Kevin has said as much.

[flatline]

It seems to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.

Are there any races published after WB4 that are listed as potentially being Mind Bleeders the way True Atlanteans are in WB2?

--flatline

[drewkitty ~..~]

I'll give a more thorough check.. but I'm pretty sure the Noro and pretty much Phaseworld treats mind bleeders as just another PCC.

Even if they do, that is unique text applicable only to the Noro race. Thus the resulting class would be an RCC, because it is racial restricted.

[Giant2005]

It seems to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.

Are there any races published after WB4 that are listed as potentially being Mind Bleeders the way True Atlanteans are in WB2?

--flatline

Faustians from Anvil Galaxy can be "the equivalent of Mind Bleeders".
I think the way they are handling it is that Mind Bleeders themselves are a race and anything else can be something that has the same Mind Bleeder powers, just without being the race.

[Nightmask]

It seems to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.

Are there any races published after WB4 that are listed as potentially being Mind Bleeders the way True Atlanteans are in WB2?

--flatline

Faustians from Anvil Galaxy can be "the equivalent of Mind Bleeders".
I think the way they are handling it is that Mind Bleeders themselves are a race and anything else can be something that has the same Mind Bleeder powers, just without being the race.

Which basically makes for a Mind Bleeder OCC as well as a race that's exclusively Mind Bleeders so are called Mind Bleeders for convenience. Hmmm, would be interesting to see a race that basically has each of the various psychic classes as their basic natural aptitude, like a Psi-tech Race or a Gizmoteer Race.

[Nightmask]

We Already do. Amaki , Spherians are examples of this. Aliens Unlimited has the Aluta (Telekinetics), Wulfen (Pyrokinetics), Struthio (Mechanolink), and the list goes on.

Mechano-Link is a super-power and Amaki aren't all Gizmoteers just some of them. We don't have a Gizmoteer race or a Psi-Tech race where everyone's got that particular psychic class's abilities, same with other psychic classes (outside of those that are clearly training, like the Psi-Warriors or Cyber-Knights, and basically created psychic classes).

[MADMANMIKE]

We Already do. Amaki , Spherians are examples of this. Aliens Unlimited has the Aluta (Telekinetics), Wulfen (Pyrokinetics), Struthio (Mechanolink), and the list goes on.

Alien Unlimited races don't count; Aliens Unlimited, like all of the Heroes Unlimited books uses a different educational system, not the Character Class system.. so they don't have R.C.C.s, O.C.C.s or P.C.C.s, which are the general topic of this conversation. You have to make conversions to the official text to use them in this set of rules in the first place, so it doesn't help.

[drewkitty ~..~]

It seems to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.

Are there any races published after WB4 that are listed as potentially being Mind Bleeders the way True Atlanteans are in WB2?

--flatline

Faustians from Anvil Galaxy can be "the equivalent of Mind Bleeders".
I think the way they are handling it is that Mind Bleeders themselves are a race and anything else can be something that has the same Mind Bleeder powers, just without being the race.

Which basically makes for a Mind Bleeder OCC as well as a race that's exclusively Mind Bleeders so are called Mind Bleeders for convenience. Hmmm, would be interesting to see a race that basically has each of the various psychic classes as their basic natural aptitude, like a Psi-tech Race or a Gizmoteer Race.

Which STILL makes the Class an RCC. *gives NM a tired look of a teacher to a student that just does not "get it"*
I will inform you yet again, the Class would be a racially restricted class. Thus, the only class type it can be is a RCC.

Would you get things right more then once in a while?

As for the rest of your post...the Gizmoteer RCC's race are in RSA2. The Amaki Stonemen. Since all (psi) gizmoteers are Amaki Stonemen.
---------
Rap... Which Spherians are you talking about? The ones from Robotech 1st ed?

[Nightmask]

It seems to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.

Are there any races published after WB4 that are listed as potentially being Mind Bleeders the way True Atlanteans are in WB2?

--flatline

Faustians from Anvil Galaxy can be "the equivalent of Mind Bleeders".
I think the way they are handling it is that Mind Bleeders themselves are a race and anything else can be something that has the same Mind Bleeder powers, just without being the race.

Which basically makes for a Mind Bleeder OCC as well as a race that's exclusively Mind Bleeders so are called Mind Bleeders for convenience. Hmmm, would be interesting to see a race that basically has each of the various psychic classes as their basic natural aptitude, like a Psi-tech Race or a Gizmoteer Race.

Which STILL makes the Class an RCC. *gives NM a tired look of a teacher to a student that just does not "get it"*
I will inform you yet again, the Class would be a racially restricted class. Thus, the only class type it can be is a RCC.

Would you get things right more then once in a while?

As for the rest of your post...the Gizmoteer RCC's race are in RSA2. The Amaki Stonemen. Since all (psi) gizmoteers are Amaki Stonemen.
---------
Rap... Which Spherians are you talking about? The ones from Robotech 1st ed?

I'm not your student, you aren't my teacher, so drop the condescending behavior. You clearly DON'T get what I said which doesn't surprise me at all.

[Nightmask]

If you're going to limit yourself to Rifts races, there are dozens Lanotaur hunters (super-psistalker/slayers)
R-something telepath translators ( in Dbees of North america)
Lurnok (Yet another race that is all psychic Occ)
Shaydorians ( 5 breeds)
theres about a dozen Empath races
there's at least 4 Illusionist races
now you're beginning to throw alot of butts around trying to disqualify things that fit the profile.

I apparently need to attempt to restate what I have said differently as some apparently aren't getting my point.

There is a Mind Bleeder race that due to their genetics are all of the Mind Bleeder psychic class, a class that's not exclusive to their race as several other races can also be Mind Bleeders but the Mind Bleeder race is apparently genetically locked into just being Mind Bleeders. So for a member of the Mind Bleeder race to not actually be a Mind Bleeder class as well it would have to be genetically modified to be able to manifest some other class.

My follow-up point was that it would be interesting to see other races that because they can only have a particular psychic class due to their race are basically called that class as a result. Amaki Gizmoteers do not qualify because Amaki as a race can be many things other than Gizmoteers whereas a Gizmoteer race would be a race that genetically are all programmed to manifest the Gizmoteer psychic class alone. The same holds for all the other examples given. None of them manifest a psychic class that while available to other races is what they all without question manifest to the point of being named after that class.

Hopefully this has cleared up the confusion on the part of those who derived positions completely at odds with what I'd actually said.

[flatline]

It's never come up, but I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder.

--flatline

[Tor]

All the Psychic Rccs in SA books are Not OCCs because they are genetic. The "Skill" Package just represents the average member of their species.

Yup, they're listed as RCCs. Unlike PCC I am unclear of any reference specifying that RCCs are OCCs. However the canonical Megaversal multiple OCC rules in the online errata mention you can change an RCC to an OCC, so they would not be limited.

even the Arkhon ESP specialist is born with those powers.

Incorrect, ESP Specialist (like the Mind Mage, in SA2) is an OCC.

Mind bleeders are a PCC that many Races can have, they are not just human mutants, like it was first described.

In the Rifts Africa book it says that Mind Bleeders are from a human looking alien race. So....Mind Bleeder is an RCC.

Mind Bleeder has only ever been listed as an RCC, although it seems to have flipped between being represented as a species (Africa/Psyscape) and a class available to other races (Atlantis/SA2 says Atlanteans and Stonemen can be'm).

seams to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was retconed by the later book.

Africa lists nothing about ret-conning Atlantis, so no, TAs can still be MBs. The most logical interpretation is that they mimic the abilities as the Amaki Stonemen can.

Faustians from Anvil Galaxy can be "the equivalent of Mind Bleeders".

Ah them too, good find.

Psistalkers can become PsiSlayers or psycho juicers.. Because the Psistalker is an RCC that can switch around occs. (it just so happens their xp table doesn't really change)

Only psi-stalkers can become Psi-Slayers and psycho juicers. Because they are Psi-stalker RCC's.

Psi-Stalkers can become Psycho-Stalkers (via juicing) but not Psi-Slayers. The only psychic variant classes I've seen made available to Psi-Stalkers are Nega-Psychic or Psi-Nullifier as per Psyscape. Although with RUE changing psychic RCCs to OCCs, Stalkers could in theory switch to anything now per the multiple OCC rules just like any RCC. I'm not sure whether or not the experience table would change. I get the impression it would and that you would use the Stalker XP table if you are using the normal kind.

To reiterate fellows: the Psycho-Stalker is an OCC available to Psi-Stalkers, and the Psi-Slayer is a psychic RCC available only to humans. Psi-Stalkers cannot be Psi-Slayers, only humans. Normally I might interpret "human" as being open to Psi-Stalkers (being human mutants) but it's clear from other classes (like Nullifier) which distinguish between 'human' and 'stalker' BOTH being possible, that human means non-Stalker in the context of Psyscape, at least.

all (psi) gizmoteers are Amaki Stonemen.

I'm doubtful you can support that conclusion with text, the RCC is notoriously non-specific as to whether or not it is racially exclusive.

The problem with arguments implying that it is exclusive is that they would apply equally to Duelists, who we know are not. Surely if Gizmoteers were exclusive they could have simply noted that.

[NMI]

Either learn to discuss things in a polite, adult-like manner or keep your fingers off of the keyboard in front of you.

[Nightmask]

It's never come up, but I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder.

--flatline

While the potential for psionics is in most races is the potential to be a Mind Bleeder the same? It doesn't seem to be as likely to be available to all races that have psionics as we see with things like Mind Melters or Bursters. The genetic potential may not be there for all psychic races to include Mind Bleeders as an option.

[flatline]

It's never come up, but I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder.

--flatline

While the potential for psionics is in most races is the potential to be a Mind Bleeder the same? It doesn't seem to be as likely to be available to all races that have psionics as we see with things like Mind Melters or Bursters. The genetic potential may not be there for all psychic races to include Mind Bleeders as an option.

True, but if a player is excited about a certain character, I usually allow it regardless of whether or not it's strictly book legal (although I may suggest changes before allowing the character into the game).

--flatline

[Nightmask]

It's never come up, but I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder.

--flatline

While the potential for psionics is in most races is the potential to be a Mind Bleeder the same? It doesn't seem to be as likely to be available to all races that have psionics as we see with things like Mind Melters or Bursters. The genetic potential may not be there for all psychic races to include Mind Bleeders as an option.

True, but if a player is excited about a certain character, I usually allow it regardless of whether or not it's strictly book legal (although I may suggest changes before allowing the character into the game).

--flatline

Rule Zero, ultimate determiner as to whether or not something's playable (and a rule too often ignored especially by the rules lawyer both GM and player).

[drewkitty ~..~]

It's never come up, but I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder.

--flatline

Yes it has come up before, you just ignored me informing everyone that the Mind Bleeder class is a True RCC (opposed to a PCC labeled as a RCC because of a style filter, just like Neo-Humans have a real RCC)[The way you can tell is that there are attribute stats given with RCC.] because the class is racially limited. This is blatantly obvious if you read the full Mind Bleeder text. On Rifts Earth it is limited to a specific race of D-Bee, and races who's racial text specifically allows members of that race to be mind bleeders.

Anyone who would say otherwise is talking about their own house rules.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In the Rifts Africa book it says that Mind Bleeders are from a human looking alien race. So....Mind Bleeder is an RCC.

Mind Bleeder has only ever been listed as an RCC, although it seems to have flipped between being represented as a species (Africa/Psyscape) and a class available to other races (Atlantis/SA2 says Atlanteans and Stonemen can be'm).

seams to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was ret'coned by the later book.

Africa lists nothing about ret-conning Atlantis, so no, TAs can still be MBs. The most logical interpretation is that they mimic the abilities as the Amaki Stonemen can.

Tor you are ignoring the text in the MindBleeder RCC, in BOTH Africa and Psyscape that Mind Bleeders only come from a single race. So your postulation that the text flip-flops on on who can be a mind bleeder holds no water. The only change was a tentative possibility that T.A.'s possibility being able to be mind bleeders. to it being a real RCC. And that being a real RCC by itself precludes ANY RACE from being a mind bleeder unless there is a specific exception in that race's racial text.


Ret'coning is almost never "announced' if it is not a 'new edition' (see how the newer PF books list NPC with the HU 2 APM per melee without announcing it), so your objection that there was no ret'con announcement is so much hot air. And since MB's are a real RCC, that in itself precludes ANY RACE from being a mind bleeder unless there is a specific exception in that race's racial text.

Even when another race is allowed to be a Mind Bleeder, the class itself is still an RCC, because it is still Racially limited.

[flatline]

It's never come up, but I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder.

--flatline

Yes it has come up before, you just ignored me informing everyone that the Mind Bleeder class is a True RCC (opposed to a PCC labeled because of a style filter) because the class is racial limited. On Rifts Earth it is limited to a specific race of D-Bee.

Anyone who would say otherwise is talking about their own house rules.

Let me restate/clarify: "It's never come up in any group that I've played with, but if it did, I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder"

I was not commenting on whether it had been discussed here on the forums, but rather that it had never come up in my own gaming experiences.

--flatline

[Nightmask]

It's never come up, but I would be inclined to allow any race that can have master psionics to be a Mind Bleeder.

--flatline

Yes it has come up before, you just ignored me informing everyone that the Mind Bleeder class is a True RCC (opposed to a PCC labeled as a RCC because of a style filter, just like Neo-Humans have a real RCC)[The way you can tell is that there are attribute stats given with RCC.] because the class is racially limited. This is blatantly obvious if you read the full Mind Bleeder text. On Rifts Earth it is limited to a specific race of D-Bee, and races who's racial text specifically allows members of that race to be mind bleeders.

Anyone who would say otherwise is talking about their own house rules.

If you felt ignored it was because you were presenting your house rule regarding psychic character classes and racial character classes as if it were canon. For example, after the psychic character class designation was dropped leaving only racial and occupational character classes you repeatedly inform everyone how you deem that a 'stylistic' change and that the psychic character class designation still remains. It may for your game but that's your house rule.

By the same token what racial character classes actually are is quite vague and contradictory, but while there is the Mind Bleeder class it's not really a racial character class because it isn't limited to one race it's available to several races so it's a regular class with a limitation on what races can have it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

It seems to me that KS had the idea about the MB's when writing rWB2, so he put in the name. But when he fully fleshed out the idea, in RWB4, it ended up as a D-Bee RCC. So the text in RWB2 was ret'coned by the later book.

Are there any races published after WB4 that are listed as potentially being Mind Bleeders the way True Atlanteans are in WB2?

--flatline

Faustians from Anvil Galaxy can be "the equivalent of Mind Bleeders".
I think the way they are handling it is that Mind Bleeders themselves are a race and anything else can be something that has the same Mind Bleeder powers, just without being the race.

There is a simplification in the listing that twists the concepts a bit. Probably because the writer did not do due diligence in fact checking. In other words the referring to the Mind Bleeder RCC as a Psi OCC is a typo.

When following the definitions/concepts of the class labels they would just end up as a Faustian Mind Bleeder RCC.

[Tor]

Edited: sorry 'bout that drew I apparently forgot to close a quote tag, I think I had split them thinking to do separate responses or something, merged it back, I can be a scatterbrain sometimes.

you are ignoring the text in the MindBleeder RCC, in BOTH Africa and Psyscape that Mind Bleeders only come from a single race. Your postulation that the text flip-flops on on who can be a mind bleeder holds no water.

Not so much ignoring it as trying to make it work with the Atlantis/SA text.

The only change was a tentative possibility that T.A.'s possibility being able to be mind bleeders. to it being a real RCC. And that being a real RCC by itself precludes ANY RACE from being a mind bleeder unless there is a specific exception in that race's racial text.

I don't believe I was arguing for races that don't mention the ability to be Bleeders getting that chance. Just TAs, Amakis and those bros in the Anvil Galaxy.

your objection that there was no ret'con announcement is so much hot air.

Atlantis and Africa were only 2 books apart. Surely Kev couldn't had a snippet there saying "btw ignore that bit about Atlanteans being Bleeders" if he wanted to cancel on the option.

And since MB's are a real RCC, that in itself precludes ANY RACE from being a mind bleeder unless there is a specific exception in that race's racial text.

Which is what TAs have by their class list.

[drewkitty ~..~]

you are ignoring the text in the MindBleeder RCC, in BOTH Africa and Psyscape that Mind Bleeders only come from a single race.

Not so much ignoring it as trying to make it work with the Atlantis/SA text.

And what I am pointing out that it does not work because it was ret'coned out of canon.

your postulation that the text flip-flops on on who can be a mind bleeder holds no water.

The only change was a tentative possibility that T.A.'s possibility being able to be mind bleeders. to it being a real RCC. And that being a real RCC by itself precludes ANY RACE from being a mind bleeder unless there is a specific exception in that race's racial text.

I don't believe I was arguing for races that don't mention the ability to be Bleeders getting that chance. Just TAs, Amakis and those bros in the Anvil Galaxy.

Since TA's are a subset of humans, you were ending up saying that.

your objection that there was no ret'con announcement is so much hot air.

Atlantis and Africa were only 2 books apart. Surely Kev couldn't had a snippet there saying "btw ignore that bit about Atlanteans being Bleeders" if he wanted to cancel on the option.

The actual publishing the Mind Bleeders as an real RCC was "The" announcment you are saying is lacking.

And since MB's are a real RCC, that in itself precludes ANY RACE from being a mind bleeder unless there is a specific exception in that race's racial text.

Which is what TAs have by their class list.

TA's only had a Name of a class in a future book. Which I have covered before, which you quoted in an above quote of me.

[Tor]

Whether or not the Africa presentation of Bleeders counts as a retcon of the Atlantis option of TAs (yeah altered humans, not sure the relevance) having an option to be'm is debateable.

Also not supported by other races like the Amaki and the... er... Phase World guys... being able to be Bleeders. Simpler conclusion is that TAs copy the abilities as the Amaki and Anvil bros do.

[Chronicle]

I take a look over the RCC. The book usually specifies what types of OCC's you can have at character creation level, if nothing is listed and the RCC comes with a list of skills of it's own, then i would rule that the RCC would have to gain atleast 1 level in it's current Skillset before taking an OCC, I also rule that if a PCC takes on an OCC then it forgoes all their Psionic upgrades for level advancement because now said mind melter would be advancing as a new class (such as Pilot or ranger or something else. (Gave up that option to go in other directions)

For example:

A mindmelter reaches level 3 (for the psisword)
He then decides he wants to be a pilot (and decides to stop using his occupational skill set due to spending years in school due to lack of time and strict studdy)
He retains his psionics that has already been learned, but the next time he advances levels he is now a robot pilot and advances in that direction insted of becoming a level 4 mindmelter

Player is like: "WHAT???"
I say: You are a pilot now not a mind melter, you studied for years and shelved your other abilities, so your mind melter is frozen at 3 like usual. (always see that word "frozen" which is why i never pick a second OCC till atleast level 10 (so rarely)

[drewkitty ~..~]

Whether or not the Africa presentation of Bleeders counts as a ret'con of the Atlantis option of TAs (yeah altered humans, not sure the relevance) having an option to be'm is debatable.

Also not supported by other races like the Amaki and the... er... Phase World guys... being able to be Bleeders. Simpler conclusion is that TAs copy the abilities as the Amaki and Anvil bros do.

The Simpler conclusion is that TA's just can't be MB.
Why? Because it sets to rest any arguments with munchkins about whether or not MB is a PCC or a RCC before they happen.

Otherwise you are going to start to get a munchkin that wants to play an elf neo-human.

[Alrik Vas]

True Atlantean Temporal Wizard!!!

[drewkitty ~..~]

True Atlantean Temporal Wizard!!!

....your point in saying a race OCC combo? besides just inserting a humorous Non Sequitur?

[Alrik Vas]

*slightly* related, and I had this guy who would never give up the ship on me letting him play one.

[Nightmask]

*slightly* related, and I had this guy who would never give up the ship on me letting him play one.

Is there really anything about a True Atlantean Temporal Wizard that would be that big a deal really? Much like with the Neo-Human if you did allow one to play a variant with one of the other Psychic Classes it's not going to significantly increase its power (and some classes would definitely be more of a step down, like focusing on being a Psychic Healer).

You'd almost wonder why you don't generally see Neo-Human mages, other than the incentive they have to remain focused on advancing psionically since it also extends there lifespan. Unless you've little concern for living longer or have some driving passion otherwise (like seeking vengeance) a Neo-Human isn't likely to want to be anything but a psychic class.