Vehicle Combat

[Peacebringer]

I'm creating a quick and easy vehicle combat rules roughly based off of Recon's idea. I remember the days of Battletech or Leviathan when the combat turns would take hours. I want to simplify it so it's fast, accurate and enjoyable.

So, when an armored vehicle gets hit by a heavy weapon, there is no SP or MDC or Hit-points: there is only a percentile die-roll.

If you rolled the percentage, you roll a d20 and consult a chart similar to the one for Trucks found on page 220 of DRR. Based on the out-come of that roll, determines what happens to the vehicle.

The attack rolls so a one might mean nothing where a 20 would mean ammo hit and the tank blew up and the entire crew is dead. Or a 20 would me the SAM blew up the jet and the pilot is killed.

Each class of vehicle will have it's own chart. An APC's chart will be different than a tank's or jet's.

Weapons will be categorized in classes; is there much difference between a 100mm and a 105mm? I'm sure there is, but I don't want to get bogged down in technicalities.

Certain categories of weapons have a better chance of damaging vehicles than others. A 75mm cannon will have more of a chance to damage an APC than a heavy tank.

Is hit-location important? It is for a tank: a shell hitting the rear of the tank will have a better chance of penetration than hitting the front. A helicopter getting hit with a missile, does it really matter?

More detail for the players: if the players are playing tank crews, should there be a distinction between HE shells and AP shells in combat? Sure, if the players are infantry, should it matter as much?

I also would like to create a Large Combat Resolution system for armored vehicles for ease of play.

Or, I could just skip the percentile die and just roll a d20 with a modifier. Say under a 5, the shot bounced off, and maybe a BMP-1 vs a 120mm round gets a +5 modifier to the roll (what's the odds of a 120mm round not damaging a IFV?

Sure that would mean charts, but is it easier to consult a chart than to roll damage-dice and do math?

[slade the sniper]

Peacebringer,
I like your idea but you will have to determine how much granularity you want to have...basically, should each vehicle have it's own chart, or do you want to go with generic classes of vehicles. I would say a chart per vehicle, since in most games, each vehicle has their own stat block. The question then becomes one of vehicle facing, which should not be too difficult. Old School Twilight 2000 did this very well. I would suggest that you base your penetration percentage and armor ratings off something relatively simple (such as RHAe and for other types of vehicles off of a simple equation using Palladium stats as the variables so that you can just post the equation to use so you don't have to make a stat bloc for each vehicle and thus stays clear of the no conversions policy.

As for the effects of penetration, you have to take into account what it hits...through and through penetration is not as rare as you might think, and if it doesn't hit something important (like a crew member, ammo, fuel, engine or a weapon system) you are still good to hook.

I would say % dice instead of a d20...because % dice are cooler and I like them

-STS

[Jefffar]

For a fast and surprisingly plausible vehicle combat rules, there is Warhammer 40k for inspiration.

1) Roll dice to see if armour is penetrated based on the characteristics of weapon and armour.
2) If penetration occurs, roll for and apply effects as modified by an special rules possessed by the weapon or vehicle.

They have recently added an ablative value called Hull Points to vehicles which allow a sufficient volume of shots to eventually kill a vehicle, as long as they are strong enough to do damage.

[Peacebringer]

I did think of using a %die, but I'd probably write 100 outcomes like, "You hit the tank, it blows up and a crewman sticks his arm out a hatch and gives you the finger, then dies".

The MD should rule for damage: how can a guy, 200yards away know if he killed all the crew inside an enemy-APC: does he have xray-vision?

I'll have to look into Warhammer.

[slade the sniper]

Jeffar,
As an inspiration, WH40K is great...but the pretty limited granularity is one reason that the base game is so...wonky, so that a few good/bad rolls can skew a battle pretty heavily. Good call for inspiration, tho.

-STS

[Jefffar]

Well it is a wargame. Wargames need to be basic and fast so to keep the action going. Some of the battles I play there are literally hundreds of shots to be resolved in a single player's turn.

The base elements of their vehicular system are pretty good though and surprisingly realistic. A weapon tends to either do nothing or score mission kills and catastrophic kills.

[slade the sniper]

True...I am a bit more simulationist than gamer when it comes to TT wargames. But you are correct in that weapons generally have three results, nothing, mission kill or catastrophic kill. If only that mechanic could be applied to PCs in RPGs...but that would really take away that "I'm a special flower" jive that gamers do so love...

-STS

[Jefffar]

I've got some home rules I am experimenting with for just that.

The downside is death becomes very, very easy in the game which is more frustrating for some players than others.

[Peacebringer]

Single-Action Infantry Hit-Chart d20

1. Round hits gear, no effect. Soldier laughs.
2. Grazes; infantry unaffected. "It's only a flesh-wound".
3. Bullet grazes and soldier stares at wound and is stunned.
4. Grazes helmet or blows off cover; solider needs to change his underwear.
5. Shot hits left-arm; can't use left-arm. Screams in pain.
6. Right-arm hit: can't use right-arm soldier grasps wound with his other arm.
7. Shot hits left-leg: soldier can't walk or run; can only limp clutches wound with left hand.
8. Round hits right-arm; soldier can't walk or run; can only limp.
9. Torso takes a hit: cusses and still fighting.
10. Lower-torso hit: soldier is stunned and drops to the ground.*
11. Bullet hits left-leg: leg is broken and the soldier can only crawl. Soldier slams into the ground*
12. Round hits Right-leg: leg is broken and the soldier can only crawl and shouts out profanities.*
13. Face hit: soldier is stunned: possible vision, or hearing loss. covers face with a hand*
14. Lower-torso hit: dust flies off: soldier screams and collapses.**
15. Shot hits upper-chest: soldiers just falls to ground: collapses a lung.**
16. Soldier stops, stumbles than falls to ground: hits vital-organ: massive blood-loss.**
17. Round hits a vital-organ; soldier drops to the ground and dies.
18. Round hits upper head: blows of helmet or cover: falls over in a random direction: soldier dead.
19. Round hits face: soldier dead: drops to ground like a crumpled rag-doll.
20. Round hits head: spray of red-mist comes out the other side: slumps down somewhere: soldier dies.

*Requires medical attention: will die in 1d6 days.
**Requires serious medical attention: will die in 1d20 turns.

Automatic or MG Fire Hit-Chart d20

1. Soldier hits the deck due to auto-fire or gun kicks up: no effect.
2. Bullet(s) gear, gun or helmet; no effect really.
3. Shots graze: hits the deck.
4. Shots graze: dives for cover and does move for 1D6 rounds.
5. Shot(s) hits left arm: soldier cusses: left-arm out of action.
6. Hit(s) to the right arm: right out out of action. Drops gun.
7. A hit or multiple hits to the left-leg: bits the dust and can only limp.*
8. Right-leg hit(s): can only limp: halts position.*
9. Bullet(s) hits unknown area of the body: stops, screams and takes cover.*
10. Torso takes hits and limbs take grazes: says, "****!", VC: : "Du!". Latin America: "Cage!(Cah-hey)": Islam: "Allah Akbar"! Viking, "Vahallah"! and takes cover.*
11. Face and or helmet or cover blown off: clutches face, mumbles something and if moving, runs into an obstacle.*
12. Torso Hit, continues to fight, then takes around to check out wound: pulls of a blood hand, says something, then falls to the ground.**
13. Hits to the torso and legs: falls to dirt: can only crawl.**
14. Upper-body hit(s): collapse lung: roll a 1d20: if 11 or higher, both lung collapse: dies in 1D20 rounds.**
15. Vital organ(s) struck: massive sprays of blood. bites the dust.**
16. Multiple shots to the torso: just kind of stumbles a bit and drops to the floor: dead.
17. Hits to the upper-body, drops to the earth and dies.
18. Bullet(s) hit vital organs like the heart or spin: crumples and is dead.
19. Head hit with multiple rounds: one hits helmet: rest hits face and head: eats dirt and dies.
20. Multiple rounds hits various areas of the body: spins in place and falls: hamburger-meat: KIA

*Requires medical attention: will die in 1d6 days.
**Requires serious medical attention: will die in 1d20 turns.


Tank hit-chart d20

1. Hit(s) are a dud.
2. Hit bogies. No effect.
3. Hit penetrates, but tank is still functional.
4. Hit takes out any one surface pintle mount or equipment.
5. Communications equipment damaged: out of contact.
6. Track hit: tank immobilized.
7. Hit far side track - spins away from you then halts.
8. Hit near side track, spins in that direction, then halts.
9. Hits turret, co-axial MG knocked-out.
10. Hit main gun - tank still moving. MGs operable.
11. Hits turret: commander, gunner and loader wounded/stunned.
12. Driver killed: continues to drive straight ahead.
13. Hits turret: commander, gunner and loader killed.
14. Hit engine compartment, halts, crew still fighting.
15. Hit engine compartment, internal explosion kills crew.
16. Hit turret, main gun out of action; commander and loader dead.
17. Ignites fuel. Crew comes barreling out, some on fire.
18. Ignite shells: they cook-off, killing crew and destroying tank.
19. Tank stops; then belches out black smoke; crew dead.
20. Blows off turret; ammunition and fuel explodes killing crew.

Just for fun!

Xenomorph hit chart d20

1. Dodges your shots; continues to stalk.
2. Jumps up into a nearby vent: you thought you got it, but there's no acid.
3. Rounds deflect off: moves towards you or target.
4. Hits, but doesn't go through exoskeleton.
5. Rounds wound it: it screams and ducks into the nears air-duct or cover to escape.
6. Hits: but does no damage: it looks at you with even more hate and leaps towards you.
7. Hits arm; acid oozes out.
8. Rounds hit arm: it stops; looks and wound then looks at you and moves forward.
9. Hits an arm and blows it off, spraying acid 1D6 meters in a random direction. It grabs arm and will use it as a weapon.
10. Tail hit: acid oozes out and it flick acid at shooter if within 10 meters.
11. Legs hit: acid oozes out: xenomorph still approaches, but uses arms to move instead.
12. A leg is blow off: acid leaks-out: hisses at you and moves, even faster.
13. Torso hit: acid sprays out 1D6 meters: xenomorph flees.
14. Hits body and acid spays out 1D6 meters: 1D6 turns later, the lights in that section go out as acid has eaten away at the wires.
15. Body hit with rounds: acid sprays out 1D6 meters: in 1D6 rounds, acid will eat and cause a vacuum-breech or fire.
16. Head blow-off: acid rains down 1D6 meters. Stops, then slumps off in a random direction. Terminated.
17. Xenomorph makes loud scream and explodes from multiple round hits: anything within 1D6 meters is sprayed with acid.
18. Xenomorph explodes spraying acid 1D6 meter-radius. Dead. Acid will eat through everything.
19. Hit in the head and expires: if within point-blank range, you stuck a gun in it's mouth and say, "Eat this". Sprays acid 1D6 meters.
20. Rounds hit and creature spins in place and falls to floor: acid only oozes out and doesn't spray. Dead and acid begins to eat through floor.

Cyborg Hit Chart vs small rounds, hand-guns, rifles, MGs, and shotguns. d20

Note: Lasers, rail-guns and plasma weapons gets a +10 on the roll and any hit will cause a fire.
ACs, RPGs, LAWs, HEAT and H.E.: also get a +10: if rolled 3-9, they get a critical-hit roll: if 10 or over, they get two critical-hit rolls.
Grenade: +10.
EMP: always does 1D4 critical-hits.

AP rounds for small-arms
Hand-gun, pistol or SMG: +2
Rifle, or MG: +5
Shot-guns or Heavy-MG: +8

1. No Effect: cyborg appears to laugh at you.
2. No Effect: cyborg feigns wound, then continues on.
3. No Effect.
4. No Effect.
5. No Effect.
6. No Effect.
7. No Effect.
8. No Effect.
9. No Effect.
10. No Effect.
11. No Effect.
12. No Effect.
13. No Effect
14. Turns toward direction of fire.
15. Stops and turns toward direction of fire.
16. Unit pauses for a round.
17. Causes minor confusion in the tracking computer: pauses for a round to process.
18. Light surface damage: if in water, this can be a problem.*
19. Sensory-System hit: d20 1-4 Sonar, 5-10: Radar, 11-12: Motion, 13-16: IR, 17-18 Audio, 19-20: Visual(each system has a back up: needs two hits to knock-out system.
20. Roll on Critical-Hit table.

*Roll on critical.

Cyborg Critical-Hit Table d20

1. Power-cell hit: 0.009KT-Nuclear-blast. Anyone within 50M is vaporized: structures destroyed. 100M: critical-damage to flesh: severe burns and blindness/deaf: structures severely damaged. 250M: Serious burn-wounds, flash-blindness/loss of hearing (temporary), moderate damage to structures. Up to 1.2KM: flesh-wounds from flying derbies and minor burns: light-damage to structures. Minor radiation damage. 1/4KM radius from ground-zero will be on fire.
2. Light surface-damage: needs to be repaired, eventually.
3. Electrical-systems exposed: must be repaired: if sprayed with water, unit will shut down for 1d20 rounds.
4. Minor-Sensors hit: 1-10: Sonar, 11-20: Radar.
5. Foot hydraulic-systems damaged: slows movement.
6. Arm hydraulic-systems damaged: arm not as dexterous.
7. Leg hydraulic-system damaged: movement in half (another critical and cyborg immobilized: will usually fall prone, but not always.
8. Body hydraulic-system hit: leaking fluids: is flammable.
9. Arm critically hit: loses the use of an arm.
10. Leg critically hit: loses the use of a leg.
11. C3 systems destroyed: cannot communicate with other units: if a slave-unit or drone, shuts down.
12. Major Sensors hit: 1-7: Ir, 8-11: Motion, 12-16: Audio, 17-20: Visual destroyed.
13. Gyro Hit: loses balance and cannot walk, but can crawl and fight.
14. Center-mass hit: on fire; in 1d20 rounds will shut-down.
15. Sensors damaged: can no longer use sensors.
16. Center-mass hit: on fire; in 1d20 rounds will shut-down.
17. Processor scrambled. Will turn and attack another cyborg unit: if no other units, will flee.
18. Motive or processes systems hit: Cyborg is operational, but cannot move.
19. Power-systems hit: Cyborg shuts down.
20. CPU damage: cyborg shuts down.

[slade the sniper]

ooooh, I like these

-STS

[Peacebringer]

Mail-Call: you got a letter. Roll 1D20

If you get a result that doesn’t make sense, your character doesn’t have a dog, just assume you got someone else s letter.

1. Letter from your Stateside wife’s/girlfriend’s parents or from your parents about a sister or cousin: she’s been murdered by the Night-Slasher, serial-killer.

2. Letter from your Stateside wife’s/girlfriend’s/best-friend’s parents; He’s/she’s disappeared without a trace.*

3. One of your parents, siblings or relatives or friends has committed suicide.

4. Divorce papers or a break-up letter from your girlfriend, if married, there’s no explanation: you should know why. Girlfriend: she’s leaving you for an officer or a higher ranking officer. She deserves better.

5. You get a letter from your wife/girlfriend saying they’ve been cheating on you with Steven Applegate, a guy from your hometown that washed out in basic-training.

6. Remember the last postcard you got from your Stateside wife/girlfriend/sibling/relative/friend about how they are attending classes at a local college? Well, they’re divorcing/breaking up/ or not talking to you anymore: they called you a, “Baby-Killer”.

7. Your wife/girlfriend/sibling or friend has been arrested for possession of narcotics. They’re looking at 1D20 years in prison.

8. Your dog died or ran-away: if a runaway; you’ll find it 1D20 months later!

9. Your Stateside wife/girlfriend/sibling/friend has joined a hippie commune or a rock & roll band or a cult; you’ll get divorce papers/break-up letter or pleas to go AWOL in 1D20 weeks.

10. Your wife’s/girlfriend’s/brother or sister is having a baby! If wife or girlfriend, roll 1D20xweeks for how far along; if they math doesn’t add up (if she’s seven-weeks pregnant and you’ve been deployed in ‘Nam for 3 months), it’s not yours (ouch!).

11. Your wife/girlfriend/sibling or parent as got in a car accident: they’re hurt but OK; the car however, is totaled.

12. A postcard from a sibling/relative/friend saying, “Bon jour”, and telling how much they love studying aboard/living in France.

13. A friend or relative is in rehab.

14. Your wife/girlfriend/sibling or friend has found religion and sends you religious pamphlets to read and insists you give your life to Jesus Christ.

15. Postcard from your Stateside wife/girlfriend/sibling/relative/friend saying they’re taking classes at a local college.

16. Your younger brother/sister/cousin got an straight-As and everyone back home misses you! They can’t wait to hear about your war-stories.

17. You get cookies and a, “Thank-you”, letter for your service from an unheard of, “Support the Troops”, organization back Stateside.

18. You get a long and boring letter from your folks talking about bingo-night, bowling, what’s going on at church and how your high-school sports are doing; they’re real proud you helping to save the world from the communist-heathens.

19. You get cash! A friend, paid you back a loan; role 1D20 x $100USD!

20. You get R&R behind the lines on a tropical island for 1D20 days



*You’ll learn what happened 1D20 years later (if you survive the war…).

[Echo5Hotel]

So was there anything further done on this? I am currently working on a cluster of house rules to bring Recon into the modern time frame. I am also started working on a system similar to what you have started here only it is completely based on percentile and/or 10 sided dice. If you have anything further that you would be willing to share I would love to add it to the web page I am working on as a Recon resource.

[say652]

In the heroes unlimited secind edition book vehicle combat is gone over. Nothing says action movie like a car chase/gun fight.

[SpiritInterface]

One of the best Armor vs Armor system for table top vehicle combat was 'Engage & Destroy'.

[slade the sniper]

I've never heard of Engage and Destroy...details?

-STS

[Echo5Hotel]

In the heroes unlimited second edition book vehicle combat is gone over. Nothing says action movie like a car chase/gun fight.

I looked at that but it is not compatible with Recon at all, not to mention it also seems kind of incomplete. The system they were discussing above was more in line with the feel of the Recon system. It's ok, I have something cooking for it. It is approaching completion. Thank you very much for the suggestion though.

[Echo5Hotel]

One of the best Armor vs Armor system for table top vehicle combat was 'Engage & Destroy'.

I'm not familiar with that rule set but for fast combat on the tabletop I like the Strike Legion set of rules.

[SpiritInterface]

I've never heard of Engage and Destroy...details?

-STS

ENGAGE & DESTROY: Contemporary Armored Warfare for Miniatures – January 1, 1980
by Chris Kurzadkowski

http://www.amazon.com/ENGAGE-DESTROY-Co ... B001DRMLC4

It is a bit dated but still works for miniature armored warfare.

The biggest battle field I've played on was my 16'x20' living room floor using 144th scale miniatures.

Oh the heady days before computers and video games, when if you wanted to war game tank vs tank battles you needed miniatures (allot of them), dice, a tape measure, a set of rules, and a massive amount of imagination[skill and tactics didn't hurt].

[Peacebringer]

So was there anything further done on this? I am currently working on a cluster of house rules to bring Recon into the modern time frame. I am also started working on a system similar to what you have started here only it is completely based on percentile and/or 10 sided dice. If you have anything further that you would be willing to share I would love to add it to the web page I am working on as a Recon resource.

Not really much more; I think the main idea I have is to reduce the number of rolls and apply an plus or minus system to the d20 charts; against a tank, a rifle is not going to blow it up, but it might cause surface damage, so it gets a minus; an RPG, on the other hand, gets a plus as it is more likely to blow up a tank.

It is fine if you use my ideas for your website; just if you make money off of my ideas, write me a check!

[slade the sniper]

Thinking about this topic again, I am reminded of Probability of Hit, Probability of Kill that is used IRL for weapon systems. While the good bits are classified, a lot of the stuff from the 80/90's is up for grabs...

I am thinking that there could be some mechanic by which the attacking weapon has a value of X, the defending would have a value of Y. If the attack hits then you would have x/y percent chance of killing the target. This would actually make the numbers in Recon have some value (in the section about armored vehicles ability to shrug off damage) as well as allow for some weapons from other settings to have some definable effect beyond simply whittling down hit points (which I dislike as a mechanic anyway). I could see it expanding to encompass small arms also, as the math would be basically the same. All hits would have some effect however...still trying to figure it out mentally.

-STS

[slade the sniper]

Finished with the intial concept and posted it in the Rifts forum since it gets far higher traffic and is kinda my attempt to see how well Recon style combat works in the Megaverse.

-STS