Electrokinesis vs Power Armor

[kmspade]

Can Electrokinesis be used to manipulate the electronic controls of Power Armor, Robot Vehicle, Body Armor, ect?

The power does not specifically state that it cannot be used for this purpose, and the common features to all power armor does not specifically state that they are EMP or similarly shielded.

So the way I'm reading it, it sounds like you could have a mind melter with Electrokinesis force the pilot of the Abolisher to eject, shut off his targeting sights, ect.

What does everyone think?

[dragonfett]

My short answer I would have to say is no (especially for power armors with more than 250 MDC) and here's why. While the power doesn't explicitly state that the user needs line of sight, the range and description implies that sight of the controls is needed, and since the controls to a power armor are on the inside, the user of the power can't see what there is to control, and the controls to a would be so unfamiliar than that of common electronic objects, the master psychic would be confused as to what control to use.

[dragonfett]

Now for my long answer. Yes, but conditionally and here is the condition. The psychic must either have Pilot: Robot & Power Armors and Robot & Power Armor Combat: Basic, or they must have Telemechanics. This is why I say that. As I had stated before, if the psychic doesn't know what controls are where, he'd have a hard time figuring out which control to operate. But if they had the pilot skills or Telemechanics, then they would at least have a general idea of what operates what (or complete knowledge, as is the case with Telemechanics). I would allow the player to try to affect something, but doing so would take two actions, and I would evenly distribute percentages for each weapon, sensor, movable part, and system on the power armor and roll against that to see what the player affected. If the go for it again, I roll again.

[kmspade]

I only see one problem with your answer...

Note:The character does not need to see the devices to manipulate them. He can feel their presence.

This seems to me that the PC doesn't have to be able to see the power armor in order to mess with it. If he didn't have pilot robots / power armor or Telemechanics, I could see him randomly shutting off power to different systems, since he doesn't know what any of them do (maybe roll randomly for system affected).

But I guess the real question is can the electrokinesis breach the power armor. I seem to remember reading somewhere that certain powers can only affect "mundane" devices, but I can't remember where.

[dragonfett]

Taking a second look at the psionic powers in the RUE, I would now have to say no, it could not affect a power armor, only (relatively) simple electronics. The reason I say that is the fact that there is the power Telemechanic Mental Operation. If you allowed a player to control a power armors functions (weapons, movements, ejection seat, etc) using Electrokinesis, they would be able to duplicate the results of Telemechanics Mental Operation from over twice the distance and at 1/3 the ISP cost.

[kmspade]

Ah, now that my friend, is a very good point!

[Shadow Wyrm]

I totally allow it, the psichic can completely shut down a power armor or car/truckbut only that. As for giant robots only genral systems or parts; sensors, weapon systems, legs arms.

[dragonfett]

Shadow Wyrm, you're basically saying they can shut down the entire suit or vehicle, right?

[Shadow Wyrm]

Shadow Wyrm, you're basically saying they can shut down the entire suit or vehicle, right?

yes

[dragonfett]

Ok, I was just checking, yeah, I would allow that.

[Shadow Wyrm]

The book examples of Electrokinesis are pretty minor. Turning off lights. Turning on microwaves. Turning up the radio volume. Etc. It does not mention turning off an entire vehicle's electric system.

I would allow Electrokinesis to shut down individual systems. And the operator could just as easily turn whatever it was right back on. Telemechanic Possession or Paralysis would be needed to control or shut down a robot or suit of PA entirely.

A mirowave is a very simple devise, when compared to a car,but if you kill the power to either they both shut down just the same. Each would be a simple action, but you get a dozen actions for each EK attack, I feeel if you focus all your attacks on to one PA it makes sense that it could be shut down, but you cant do any other thing during that action.

[Shadow Wyrm]

A mirowave is a very simple devise, when compared to a car,but if you kill the power to either they both shut down just the same. Each would be a simple action, but you get a dozen actions for each EK attack, I feeel if you focus all your attacks on to one PA it makes sense that it could be shut down, but you cant do any other thing during that action.

I'm not talking about complexity. I'm talking about sheer magnitude of power involved.

Electrokinesis is literally the psychic manipulation of electricity. Just as Pyrokinesis and Telekinesis have their limits, so too must Electrokinesis. At some point, the psychic runs into the limit of the amount of energy he is able to create, manipulate, or negate.

Household electronics use a fraction of the power a suit of PA or a robot vehicle would use.

Also, you can't "turn off" batteries. And that's what powers PA, most vehicles, and all robots in Rifts.

All a psychic could do is block the power from the power source to its destination. From the examples listed, I don't believe the super power Electrokinesis grants the ability to halt the flow of that much energy.

tl;dr - Just because a pyro can blow out a match, doesn't mean he can extinguish the sun. Same principle with Electronkinesis.

I have never seen anything that says the psichic is in anyway limited buy the amount of power an oblect generates.

[kamikazzijoe]

Something to keep in mind is the control system of the defending unit. Microwaves and lights are very simple and for the most part passive. Robots and other military hardware are far more complicated and "intelligent." If you start messing with one circuit, you'll be fought by the others to be isolated before you can affect the stability of the system. The reliability requirements of military hardware means everything has a redundant backup just about.

[Killer Cyborg]

Just because a pyro can blow out a match, doesn't mean he can extinguish the sun. Same principle with Electronkinesis.

Yup.

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

I ran into a similar problem recently when my zapper tried to shut off a skelebot. GM said nope. I couldn't drain the power (nuclear supply it just keeps coming!!) and when I tried to shut it off, the AI just turned itself back on.

But I was thinking along the same lines. given the description of a zapper/electrokinesis ability to drain the power from a power line or a whole city block etc., why wouldn't you be able to shut down a pa/robot. I'm not talking about the individual circuits, but sensing where the power was coming from and essentially cutting the cord psychically. Same as unplugging it. The char has blocked the flow of power thereby rendering the object/device/pa/robot/vehicle/etc., inert.

I'm not arguing my gm's ruling. I'm just looking for a better defined/explained example of what EK can do.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I ran into a similar problem recently when my zapper tried to shut off a skelebot. GM said nope. I couldn't drain the power (nuclear supply it just keeps coming!!) and when I tried to shut it off, the AI just turned itself back on.

But I was thinking along the same lines. given the description of a zapper/electrokinesis ability to drain the power from a power line or a whole city block etc., why wouldn't you be able to shut down a pa/robot. I'm not talking about the individual circuits, but sensing where the power was coming from and essentially cutting the cord psychically. Same as unplugging it. The char has blocked the flow of power thereby rendering the object/device/pa/robot/vehicle/etc., inert.

I'm not arguing my gm's ruling. I'm just looking for a better defined/explained example of what EK can do.

The problem is your GM is somewhat incorrect. you can drain 8% of the robot or power armor's nuclear output per level, according to the book. thus you would have be level 12 or so to completely shut off a robot. So it's not that you can't, your just not high enough level to.

[Rimmerdal]

I ran into a similar problem recently when my zapper tried to shut off a skelebot. GM said nope. I couldn't drain the power (nuclear supply it just keeps coming!!) and when I tried to shut it off, the AI just turned itself back on.

But I was thinking along the same lines. given the description of a zapper/electrokinesis ability to drain the power from a power line or a whole city block etc., why wouldn't you be able to shut down a pa/robot. I'm not talking about the individual circuits, but sensing where the power was coming from and essentially cutting the cord psychically. Same as unplugging it. The char has blocked the flow of power thereby rendering the object/device/pa/robot/vehicle/etc., inert.

I'm not arguing my gm's ruling. I'm just looking for a better defined/explained example of what EK can do.

The problem is your GM is somewhat incorrect. you can drain 8% of the robot or power armor's nuclear output per level, according to the book. thus you would have be level 12 or so to completely shut off a robot. So it's not that you can't, your just not high enough level to.

Which would imply that the 8% rule applies to all the similar powers like the Electrokinesis?

[Library Ogre]

I would not allow it if outside the vehicle, but would allow it inside. Past the shielding armor, at the more delicate controls, I would make it possible.