Elves and Tattoo limitations

[Tor]

We are told that seven tats -totally destroys- other mystic powers, that magic creating abilities are lost -forever-. In spite of these absolute statements, p85 of Atlantis mentions that you can remove the tattoos and regain the powers by removing the limb with the tats.

What I am wondering is, regarding the IQ or PB or lifespan penalties elves suffer... if those would come back in a similar way if the limb+tats were removed, or if they are permanent penalties. Wondering if a non-mage elf would have any incentives to remove them.

Also, while we know explicitly that duration and range and damage of tats (including damage of summons) and HP and MDC are half for elves... It says -effects- are half.

I am wondering how much this covers. For example, it does not explicitly say to halve the SDC of either animals or the simple shield. Nor does it explicitly say to halve bonuses (such as the parry bonus from shields, or the combat bonuses of summoned monsters or animals). I have not seen any elf NPCs with tats to lead me to guess any conclusions here.

Also since T-Men, TM-Men and Maxi-Men all start with major tattoos, since the description says -typical- if you think this leaves wiggle room to modify the initials. Like to drop the 2 or 4 power or 2 or 4 monster or 2 magic weapons. I think to exchange a magic weapon for a simple, a monster for an animal, and a power for one of choice from those 2, would be fair enough. I think it stands to reason that some who create Elf servants would not want to compromise their lifespan as it could depreciate their value.

Also wondering, let us say an Elf TM or Maxi with initial PB24 gets 8 magic or monster tats, lowering them to 16. Could transmutation (pg108) still enhance the PB up to 26, or would that max be less the 8 penalty... so max 18.

Similarly, in Splynn Dimensional Market (going outside of Elves) p31-32 we have Phoenix Tat-mining. If the Re-Animator is making 20 million per resurrection MINIMUM, and each resurrection only costs 1 PE to her tattooed slave, and transmuting a PE increase is only 100 thousand a point, if she could simply do this indefinitely (affordable) and as a side effect, produce some very intimidating and trustworthy slaves who (if they lost their tats some day) would make great Summoner Greater Familiar casters...

The Rez tat (Atlantis92) has costs besides PE, but they are also affordable considering the profit. By turning them MDC (either by many tats or transmutation) it would cost that instead of HP, and even if a full 6 were lost per rez, that would only cost 600K. The only real limit here is PPE, and even at 12 max lost, considering that a brand new T-man costs at most 300 thousand, and they start with 12, it would cost you 25 thousand a tattoo to add to a new slave, one might guess, and at 6 per tat you would only need to buy 2 at most (50 thousand) to cancel out the PPE loss from the resurrection...

So at most, the manufacturing costs (ignoring negligible stuff like food) per rez are 750 thousand, you make over 19 million profit. I guess the main limit would be demand (very short time limit) requiring investing in some kind of transport of stasis service, otherwise she has to use a non-tattoo means of rezzing.

[eliakon]

We are told that seven tats -totally destroys- other mystic powers, that magic creating abilities are lost -forever-. In spite of these absolute statements, p85 of Atlantis mentions that you can remove the tattoos and regain the powers by removing the limb with the tats.

What I am wondering is, regarding the IQ or PB or lifespan penalties elves suffer... if those would come back in a similar way if the limb+tats were removed, or if they are permanent penalties. Wondering if a non-mage elf would have any incentives to remove them.

I would say that the damage is done at the time the tattoo is applied, and will persist even if the tattoo is later removed

Also, while we know explicitly that duration and range and damage of tats (including damage of summons) and HP and MDC are half for elves... It says -effects- are half.

I am wondering how much this covers. For example, it does not explicitly say to halve the SDC of either animals or the simple shield. Nor does it explicitly say to halve bonuses (such as the parry bonus from shields, or the combat bonuses of summoned monsters or animals). I have not seen any elf NPCs with tats to lead me to guess any conclusions here.

I would personally leave the animal the same...but the duration would be half. I would halve the shield though.

Also since T-Men, TM-Men and Maxi-Men all start with major tattoos, since the description says -typical- if you think this leaves wiggle room to modify the initials. Like to drop the 2 or 4 power or 2 or 4 monster or 2 magic weapons. I think to exchange a magic weapon for a simple, a monster for an animal, and a power for one of choice from those 2, would be fair enough. I think it stands to reason that some who create Elf servants would not want to compromise their lifespan as it could depreciate their value.

Yes the starting descriptions are sort of 'generic guidelines' there is no reason that a specific set of tattoos could not be used.

Also wondering, let us say an Elf TM or Maxi with initial PB24 gets 8 magic or monster tats, lowering them to 16. Could transmutation (pg108) still enhance the PB up to 26, or would that max be less the 8 penalty... so max 18.

The transformation would overwrite the old PB. But you can only do that a certain number of times, and the IQ is still damaged.

Similarly, in Splynn Dimensional Market (going outside of Elves) p31-32 we have Phoenix Tat-mining. If the Re-Animator is making 20 million per resurrection MINIMUM, and each resurrection only costs 1 PE to her tattooed slave, and transmuting a PE increase is only 100 thousand a point, if she could simply do this indefinitely (affordable) and as a side effect, produce some very intimidating and trustworthy slaves who (if they lost their tats some day) would make great Summoner Greater Familiar casters...

Don't forget you can only use Trasmutation a set number of times.

The Rez tat (Atlantis92) has costs besides PE, but they are also affordable considering the profit. By turning them MDC (either by many tats or transmutation) it would cost that instead of HP, and even if a full 6 were lost per rez, that would only cost 600K. The only real limit here is PPE, and even at 12 max lost, considering that a brand new T-man costs at most 300 thousand, and they start with 12, it would cost you 25 thousand a tattoo to add to a new slave, one might guess, and at 6 per tat you would only need to buy 2 at most (50 thousand) to cancel out the PPE loss from the resurrection...

So at most, the manufacturing costs (ignoring negligible stuff like food) per rez are 750 thousand, you make over 19 million profit. I guess the main limit would be demand (very short time limit) requiring investing in some kind of transport of stasis service, otherwise she has to use a non-tattoo means of rezzing.

And once again you discover that the Prices in palladium is based more on 'lets make all the kewl stuff pricey" rather than any rational economic reasoning.

[Tor]

Well, resurrection could be worth that much to the right buyer, but considering the ease at which it can be done, it makes me think she's eliminating the competition.