Annoying GM?

[Svartalf]

Such as consulting a Diviner (PCC or NPC) and/or Conjure the deceased's Ghost...

See?
This makes sense.
What I'm talking about are the GMs whose NPCs have knowledge there is no logical/ in-game reason for them to have about the PCs.

The I'm Batman, Defense. It's a horrible trait somehow encouraged by too many games of TSR Alphabet soup modules.

Eh? I never saw such an NPC in the alphabet soup modules (1st Ed AD&D) ... would you mind expanding on that so I can get your point?

[Alrik Vas]

"But..but...how could he know/do this?!"

"Beause he's Batman."

I think that's what he's talking about.

[Svartalf]

"But..but...how could he know/do this?!"

"Beause he's Batman."

I think that's what he's talking about.

Yeah, I had gotten that, I juzst don't see the link to TSR modules, where NPCs are scarce to start with since there are only monsters and the intent of the scenario is combat, not interaction.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I guess some people don't like it when a gm actually uses NPCs to the fullest of his ability and present a challenge to players, guess so don't like that.

[Svartalf]

Must be 2nd ed and later modules, I never saw that back when

[Svartalf]

No, not that I remember... I got some basic modules, but played only AD&D ones... The few with NPC's worth mentioning (in I series in particular) did not have them suffer from Batman syndrome... of course, nothing prevents a bad DM from infecting them, but that's the DM, not the module.

[Alrik Vas]

I guess some people don't like it when a gm actually uses NPCs to the fullest of his ability and present a challenge to players, guess so don't like that.

Nobody has a problem (okay, there are some people who cry a lot) when the GM uses an NPC to it's full potential when they're a relatively normal NPC or is at least an actual plot part of the campaign (even if its in response to a player's actions).

But when...say...the bartender you're messing with because you're character is kind of evil and he's giving you lip is suddenly a 20th level Demi-God who just happens to look like a fat old man and decided to retire to this particularly crappy town for literally no reason other than, "i r GM, u makez my ego hert! nao u diez!" then yeah, huge problem. Dislike, even.

When i play a game and i'm being a little $#*%, i have no problem with kharma or anything like that coming after me, i realize that evil is its own reward. However, most people on the street are no trained killers or even have families who would be motivated or effective at revenge. That's why there are people like the PC's, heroes, they deal with villains.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I guess some people don't like it when a gm actually uses NPCs to the fullest of his ability and present a challenge to players, guess so don't like that.

Nobody has a problem (okay, there are some people who cry a lot) when the GM uses an NPC to it's full potential when they're a relatively normal NPC or is at least an actual plot part of the campaign (even if its in response to a player's actions).

But when...say...the bartender you're messing with because you're character is kind of evil and he's giving you lip is suddenly a 20th level Demi-God who just happens to look like a fat old man and decided to retire to this particularly crappy town for literally no reason other than, "i r GM, u makez my ego hert! nao u diez!" then yeah, huge problem. Dislike, even.

When i play a game and i'm being a little $#*%, i have no problem with kharma or anything like that coming after me, i realize that evil is its own reward. However, most people on the street are no trained killers or even have families who would be motivated or effective at revenge. That's why there are people like the PC's, heroes, they deal with villains.

Well don't mess with bartenders then lol.but then again play with people for some time you can figure out how to push their buttons.

[Vrykolas2k]

again, that also depends on the setting and realism level. realisticly, Don't expect npcs to suck.

But they also don't all have to be ninja masters, or just keep one in their pockets.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

again, that also depends on the setting and realism level. realisticly, Don't expect npcs to suck.

But they also don't all have to be ninja masters, or just keep one in their pockets.

I can account for my NPCs in my games not someone's else NPCs..

[Alrik Vas]

You're answer is "don't mess with the bartender", which is completely beside the point of my comment. My point is the guy wasn't a lvl 20 godling UNTIL he was messed with by a PC.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You're answer is "don't mess with the bartender", which is completely beside the point of my comment. My point is the guy wasn't a lvl 20 godling UNTIL he was messed with by a PC.

pushing the buttons of a gm , you do with a risk.

[Nightmask]

You're answer is "don't mess with the bartender", which is completely beside the point of my comment. My point is the guy wasn't a lvl 20 godling UNTIL he was messed with by a PC.

pushing the buttons of a gm , you do with a risk.

I didn't realize bartenders were some special sort of character that PC weren't supposed to mess with, or that constituted pushing a GM's buttons to mess with one to justify such GM behavior as turning a normal non-powered NPC into a mega-power just to screw with the PC instead of actually going with things and if deserving actually have consequences be part of the actual game instead of just arbitrarily changing the NPC as he feels like because he doesn't want to take time to do things the proper way.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

You're answer is "don't mess with the bartender", which is completely beside the point of my comment. My point is the guy wasn't a lvl 20 godling UNTIL he was messed with by a PC.

pushing the buttons of a gm , you do with a risk.

.

I didn't realize bartenders were some special sort of character that PC weren't supposed to mess with, or that constituted pushing a GM's buttons to mess with one to justify such GM behavior as turning a normal non-powered NPC into a mega-power just to screw with the PC instead of actually going with things and if deserving actually have consequences be part of the actual game instead of just arbitrarily changing the NPC as he feels like because he doesn't want to take time to do things the proper way.

It's more of a player and gm pushing each other buttons than anything.

[Alrik Vas]

Personal issues should never cross into the game. If a player is pushing the GM's buttons, the GM is making an ENORMOUS mistake by pushing back on the player's level. Stand above it, act like an adult. GM's aren't gods, you're there to have fun, not worry about hurting someone's ego.

[Damian Magecraft]

Personal issues should never cross into the game. If a player is pushing the GM's buttons, the GM is making an ENORMOUS mistake by pushing back on the player's level. Stand above it, act like an adult. GM's aren't gods, you're there to have fun, not worry about hurting someone's ego.

I disagree...
Sometimes you have to teach by example.

Case in point: A player rules lawyered his way into a very skewed interpretation of the rules.
So I let it go...
And created a villain designed to exploit the exact same interpretation he was abusing.
The RL quickly agreed to reverse his stance after it affected his character negatively.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Personal issues should never cross into the game. If a player is pushing the GM's buttons, the GM is making an ENORMOUS mistake by pushing back on the player's level. Stand above it, act like an adult. GM's aren't gods, you're there to have fun, not worry about hurting someone's ego.

I disagree...
Sometimes you have to teach by example.

Case in point: A player rules lawyered his way into a very skewed interpretation of the rules.
So I let it go...
And created a villain designed to exploit the exact same interpretation he was abusing.
The RL quickly agreed to reverse his stance after it affected his character negatively.

Agreed teaching lessons is more rewarding and a nice way of entertaining the other players.

[Alrik Vas]

I think it's too adversarial for GMing. You aren't the player's enemy, the bad guys in the game are. The moment it becomes You vs Them, things start to get muddled and someone eventually stops having fun.

Plus you can teach them a lesson outside the game.

[Noon]

I think if the aggreement is that the GM pretty much uses what would have been there, then sure maybe you risk the GM saying there was a loaded double barrel shotgun under the bar. But that, in the sort of rough and tumble bars PC's goes to, fits as the sort of thing you might expect, even if the GM hadn't decided it was there before that moment.

But him making the barman a godling is just breaking the agreement - that's not a player risking something, it's a GM infraction.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I think it's too adversarial for GMing. You aren't the player's enemy, the bad guys in the game are. The moment it becomes You vs Them, things start to get muddled and someone eventually stops having fun.

Plus you can teach them a lesson outside the game.

No it's about respect, if you can't show and refine for doing wanker moves then hey it's on you and everything that's comes your way.

[Alrik Vas]

I think that, there is a point that you can be "harsh but fair" when it comes to players, but it's hardly my first option. Discussion is so much easier and takes less planning.

[KillWatch]

If talking to them first doesn't work then in game reaction to him may be warranted.

A player who keeps doing headshots is going to start getting head shots

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I think that, there is a point that you can be "harsh but fair" when it comes to players, but it's hardly my first option. Discussion is so much easier and takes less planning.

Hey I give the player the rope if they hang themselves it's on them not me , but I will it an adventure they will not forget.

[Alrik Vas]

If talking to them first doesn't work then in game reaction to him may be warranted.

A player who keeps doing headshots is going to start getting head shots

This right here, actually. My badguy's do headshots all the time. I need no promting from players. Though they generally make the attempt only if they're skilled enough. I guess what i'm saying is that i don't introduce things because of players. All moves are basically fair to me, so long as they fit the rules.

[KillWatch]

yeah I get that. and I am all for min maxing because there will always be a hole the player didn't cover that will usually sink them. But most gunshot wounds aren't to the head.

[Alrik Vas]

They are when you're fighting the elite! Gotta look out for those guys. I mean, can you imagine your not super savvy players running afoul of a bunch of Paratroopers who sneak up on them and deliver a massive amount of sneak attack head shots?

Dudes are jerks.

[KillWatch]

I agree but in heavy combat you are trying to hit as much as possible and aiming for the head isn't the best option

[Alrik Vas]

clearly, headshots aren't for every situation, but if you average +5 to strike with your weapon because of gear/training and you're within the hard dodge range, go for it.

[KillWatch]

I have had to revamp the skills.
+2 just isn't enough to denote intensive training. That's only +10% and you are done
So, I've modified it to be more inline with hand to hand styles and have adopted the three tier system from rifter, and of of course made it my female dog in heat
Basic Expert and Master
10 levels each skill physical/combat skill topping out at 100% before you reach the next tier
Basic: SP+1 per 2 levels: example-swords
Expert: SP Dmg+1 per 2 levels (no firearms): example long swords
Master: SP Dmg +1 per 2 levels, and Crit 20-1 per 2 levels: example sabers

What I used to do was stack skills. So if you have 5 secondary skills and you wanted to be a buff badass mo fo Body Building x 5, or trade them in for primary skills at 2 per.
For scholastic skills you would get an extra 25%. But I can incur some heavy penalties so it worked out (ok so I want to flip over that truck while firing my bazooka and hacking the nsa data files on roswell.
Sigh fine -200
DUDE that only leaves me with a 35% chance!?!?!
But if you really want to waste your skills like that who am I to argue? I realized something had to change when I couldn't make zorro. So now I can have a level 1 character with a +15 to strike and parry, +10 to damage and crits at 15 or better. of course he can't do anything else
Stats still stop at 30. The only caveat is when a character has an X stat. enhanced stats can go to 3x average (going off the base of 10x3=30) but x stats don't have limits. I could get a strength of 100 from being at the gym every day all day. My reasoning is that the powers already remove the blocks from normal standards and if you exercise them I see no reason not to let them be really super

[Alrik Vas]

Let's keep the rules stuff somewhere else, unless it's a rule your annoying GM instituted.

[KillWatch]

it was it was pretty annoying

[KillWatch]

nightfactory: at that point it becomes an opportunity how flustered you can make the GM with his own railroading

[Alrik Vas]

When the dragon appears suddenly, pointing you in the other direction...

Have to ask the GM. "Why did you give us a choice in the first place?"