How many times have you had to reset your Rifts game?

[Razzinold]

the funny thing is if he hadn't tried so hard he still could have gotten you there. Is it still railroading if your finessed there? Drop hints that there is treasure in them caves... No bite, offer a bounties but don't tell details until you accept. So it sounds like he was trying to play Santa Claus without getting labeled as one by making you work some. The funny thing is he didn't play to your characters.

However it is every players responsibility to pick up the pick axe and dig for gold and you guys so failed.

Dropping plot hooks is all well and good I'm sure every GM uses them, I know I do. However it is not finesse when he wants us in the caves and we have no interest in that whatsoever and we end up there anyway.

I remember way back in the day after a game session our GM Paul (not the GM I am referring to in these posts) told us that he had to make everything up on the fly because we went in a completely opposite direction then he intended. The funny thing is we thought it was one of our better gaming nights, entertainment/enjoyment wise, and he didn't do anything to force us onto his path.

The NPC he intended to be a part of our group was killed, not by us but sort of our fault because he had his hands and feet tied and tried to jump out of the way of incoming laser fire as best he could.
One guy tried to push him out of the way and rolled a 1, he ended up pushing him into a pool with no water (so his legs broke) and then he was killed by a stray shot.

We didn't go his intended way and he just rolled with the punches. I'm sure we eventually ended up where he wanted us, still never forced, because that campaign lasted 3 -4 years of playing at least 3 times a month.

[Zer0 Kay]

the funny thing is if he hadn't tried so hard he still could have gotten you there. Is it still railroading if your finessed there? Drop hints that there is treasure in them caves... No bite, offer a bounties but don't tell details until you accept. So it sounds like he was trying to play Santa Claus without getting labeled as one by making you work some. The funny thing is he didn't play to your characters.

However it is every players responsibility to pick up the pick axe and dig for gold and you guys so failed.

Dropping plot hooks is all well and good I'm sure every GM uses them, I know I do. However it is not finesse when he wants us in the caves and we have no interest in that whatsoever and we end up there anyway.

I remember way back in the day after a game session our GM Paul (not the GM I am referring to in these posts) told us that he had to make everything up on the fly because we went in a completely opposite direction then he intended. The funny thing is we thought it was one of our better gaming nights, entertainment/enjoyment wise, and he didn't do anything to force us onto his path.

The NPC he intended to be a part of our group was killed, not by us but sort of our fault because he had his hands and feet tied and tried to jump out of the way of incoming laser fire as best he could.
One guy tried to push him out of the way and rolled a 1, he ended up pushing him into a pool with no water (so his legs broke) and then he was killed by a stray shot.

We didn't go his intended way and he just rolled with the punches. I'm sure we eventually ended up where he wanted us, still never forced, because that campaign lasted 3 -4 years of playing at least 3 times a month.

Nope, definitely not finesse more like trying to use a plunger to cram all you guys into a septic tank.

Paul sounds awesome. That is what I mean when I say I gm with a sandbox approach. For me as gm the entertainment comes from two things, how do my players problem solve and how can I adapt to anything interesting they may throw my way. My games aren't hack and slash and can be played with absolutely no combat and all role play... Depending on the players decisions. I've had really dumb players where I've just let them get out of situations rolling vs their characters IQ because it was obviously higher than theirs. I've had brilliant players that couldn't act in character and kept coming up with great solutions I don't think their character could have developed. And I've had freaking awesome players on both ends where they acted within the confines of there character without having to be kept in check. They are the ones I'll really miss.

[Razzinold]

the funny thing is if he hadn't tried so hard he still could have gotten you there. Is it still railroading if your finessed there? Drop hints that there is treasure in them caves... No bite, offer a bounties but don't tell details until you accept. So it sounds like he was trying to play Santa Claus without getting labeled as one by making you work some. The funny thing is he didn't play to your characters.

However it is every players responsibility to pick up the pick axe and dig for gold and you guys so failed.

Dropping plot hooks is all well and good I'm sure every GM uses them, I know I do. However it is not finesse when he wants us in the caves and we have no interest in that whatsoever and we end up there anyway.

I remember way back in the day after a game session our GM Paul (not the GM I am referring to in these posts) told us that he had to make everything up on the fly because we went in a completely opposite direction then he intended. The funny thing is we thought it was one of our better gaming nights, entertainment/enjoyment wise, and he didn't do anything to force us onto his path.

The NPC he intended to be a part of our group was killed, not by us but sort of our fault because he had his hands and feet tied and tried to jump out of the way of incoming laser fire as best he could.
One guy tried to push him out of the way and rolled a 1, he ended up pushing him into a pool with no water (so his legs broke) and then he was killed by a stray shot.

We didn't go his intended way and he just rolled with the punches. I'm sure we eventually ended up where he wanted us, still never forced, because that campaign lasted 3 -4 years of playing at least 3 times a month.

Nope, definitely not finesse more like trying to use a plunger to cram all you guys into a septic tank.

Paul sounds awesome. That is what I mean when I say I gm with a sandbox approach. For me as gm the entertainment comes from two things, how do my players problem solve and how can I adapt to anything interesting they may throw my way. My games aren't hack and slash and can be played with absolutely no combat and all role play... Depending on the players decisions. I've had really dumb players where I've just let them get out of situations rolling vs their characters IQ because it was obviously higher than theirs. I've had brilliant players that couldn't act in character and kept coming up with great solutions I don't think their character could have developed. And I've had freaking awesome players on both ends where they acted within the confines of there character without having to be kept in check. They are the ones I'll really miss.

He was. He was the guy that introduced me and his two brothers to Rifts and he was our GM for years. Even when we both moved away for school, we moved back in the summer so we could work and the game started up again. He was lucky enough to find a group in university were he got play instead of GM.

[Crucible]

Some campaigns just didn't work or satisfy. Started new ones in their place. Most of the ones that were really good, were actually straight human and maybe some minor abilities. Nothing big.

[Noon]

That GM of yours is an unimaginative micromanager.

And a railroader.

[flatline]

That GM of yours is an unimaginative micromanager.

And a railroader.

So fire him/her and get somebody else. Nothing is worse than playing with a railroader, IMO.

Playing with a railroader can be more fun than not playing at all.

--flatline

[Razzinold]

Luckily I haven't played with that GM for years now. I got a new group together a few years ago and became the GM jaymz and jockitch74 (both from the boards) played in my game(s) along with the above mentioned Paul, one of his brothers, and a couple other guys. Sometimes jockitch74 would GM so I could play.

The games never really got off the ground due to constant changes in people's work schedules. We would play for a bit and then stop, wait a month or two and start it all up again last a few months and then stop. Eventually we gave up entirely, two guys switched to rotating shifts, one moved to Alberta for work, etc.

So now I just run a game for my wife and daughter.

[Crow Splat]

That GM of yours is an unimaginative micromanager.

And a railroader.

So fire him/her and get somebody else. Nothing is worse than playing with a railroader, IMO.

Playing with a railroader can be more fun than not playing at all.

--flatline

When my oldest was born, I stopped gaming regularly and only made "cameo" appearances in other people's games. Well it got to a point where a couple of guys who were GMing games were getting pretty heavy handed with the railroading. So some of my friends would call me up and ask me to come in and essentially break their game.

It was kind of a jerk move and the GMs would get aggrivated but the players all had a great time.

[Zer0 Kay]

That GM of yours is an unimaginative micromanager.

And a railroader.

So fire him/her and get somebody else. Nothing is worse than playing with a railroader, IMO.

Playing with a railroader can be more fun than not playing at all.

--flatline

When my oldest was born, I stopped gaming regularly and only made "cameo" appearances in other people's games. Well it got to a point where a couple of guys who were GMing games were getting pretty heavy handed with the railroading. So some of my friends would call me up and ask me to come in and essentially break their game.

It was kind of a jerk move and the GMs would get aggrivated but the players all had a great time.

That is the most fun with a railroader isn't it? Breaking their games.

[Crow Splat]

Only if it's all in good fun. I only did it because I knew the GMs. If it were a stranger's game, I wouldn't have done it.

But there was this one guy that always seemed to fix every game he ever played or GM'd for one side. I got a little bit of satisfaction from killing off his big baddie in the first session with my level 1 gunslinger. He was pretty ticked because he was planning on that guy lasting a good while. It was his own fault for letting me take liberties with the phrase "weapon of choice."