creating permanant copies of objects: can it be done

[BIBBI]

Just wondering if anyone knows a way in the rules to create a permanent copy of a non magical item.

to be more specific I'm trying to increase the supply of a metal without having to mine it. I've looked for a while but haven't found anything that does the trick.

[filo_clarke]

A Conjurer (Rifts and PFRPG) can do it by burning his Permanent PPE. It had better be a VERY important project.

[eliakon]

There is the level 9 spell 'Create Steel' in Rifts that can recycle certain metals, and end up with more metal than you started with.

[The Dark Elf]

IIRC there are warlocks spell that can convert things into metal (can look it up atm). Like clay to lead or similar.

[Cinos]

Earth Warlocks can alter some materials into metal with lasting effect, I think stone to Iron is the exact spell (and Mud to Stone, so you just go to a river bank, dig up a pile of mud, turn it to stone, then to iron, and bring it over to a forge for shaping).

[BIBBI]

The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.

[eliakon]

The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.

Just be aware, that as noted by some in the Conjurer thread in the Magic forum, that you may not be able to conjure Gantrium. Especially in PF where the Conjurer class has the note about being unable to summon precious metals.

[Cinos]

The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.

I would never in a million years, as a GM, allow a player to create Gantrium for any reason.

[zyanitevp]

The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.

I would never in a million years, as a GM, allow a player to create Gantrium for any reason.

Agreed.

[Tor]

If you don't let them make Gantrium you know they'll just start a Zaayr farm instead. You don't want to see those things breeding do you?

[Lukterran]

The two spells you are looking for are Earth warlock spells. The first is "Create Dirt or Clay" 2nd level spell pg. 228. The other is "Clay or Stone to Iron" 6th level spell pg. 231. Both are permanent!

[say652]

What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.

[Chronicle]

What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.

Then the player should know that eventually he would lose the sword that gets taken. Ahhhh temporal mechanics suck.

[say652]

Two mjonirs though. Even if you only get it for a few adventures would still be epic.

[Cinos]

What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.

This I might let fly in a case by case, but the unique weapon would need to follow the same rules a person would. I.E if you state that if two of the same person come into contact during time travel explode or create a paradox, two of the same rune weapon should do the same (having souls and being made of the same material and all). To avoid too much headache, I generally rule that time travelers cannot exist in a time they have existed before (unless they're 4D beings), which would make rune weapons tricky to use this way given their age.

[say652]

My thought was a quantum copy. So a sword good alignment grants control kinetic energy. The temporal duplicate may appear as an axe or mace. But still be that particular weapon.

[BIBBI]

The conjurer appears to be the only thing that works so far. thank you for the insight.

create metal and the warlock spells don't work for the kind of metal I'm trying to replicate (Gantrium, from the northern hinterlands book)

a spell, even a temporary one, would be optimal. if not it looks like I'm going to have to pick up the Conjurer OCC.

I would never in a million years, as a GM, allow a player to create Gantrium for any reason.

+1000

1) this was merely curiosity, I would never actually do this. unless of course the current level of play would render whatever I did with that much gantrium balanced (Ex. the GM is throwing [flocks, wings, herds, not really sure what the correct one is.] of dragons at the group.)

2) found a way to do it.

3) to the people talking about the time shenanigans. I did use that once, though as a GM, after a time traveler sold a character a weapon, he implied that he'd looted it from the character's corpse.

[say652]

I got that ONE good idea. Lol.
And a Murder of Dragons?? Sounds like tuesday to me. Lol.

[BIBBI]

it requires a Rifter class. the animator (which is quickly becoming one of the most broken classes that I have found) from Rifter #26. at level 9 he can create constructs that repair themselves over time, 2d6 every 30 seconds. if you take a chunk of gantrium (either raw, or forged in non magical fire.), animate it, and had someone file away at it, then the construct would "heal" itself by creating more material, however the shavings would be left behind. if you can get someone who can deal enough damage with a file, you could (assuming gantrium when not indestructible has a similar weight-to-sdc ratio to steel) create about 11 pounds per minute, more if there is less sdc per pound.

[Lukterran]

What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.

If you haven't noticed yet. All temporal magic in Palladium alone works in one direction, FORWARD. Nothing ever goes back in time. This is to take away any paradox like scenerios etc...

You can slow time, speed it up, stop it, jump forward to some furture time, but you can never go back or send anything into the past. Time reversal is not a currently in the Palladium game system.

[say652]

Dimensional anomaly. Ie. A quantum copy.

[MADMANMIKE]

What about using temporal magic to bring said item from the future to the past. Ie. Two of the same rune sword.

If you haven't noticed yet. All temporal magic in Palladium alone works in one direction, FORWARD. Nothing ever goes back in time. This is to take away any paradox like scenerios etc...

You can slow time, speed it up, stop it, jump forward to some furture time, but you can never go back or send anything into the past. Time reversal is not a currently in the Palladium game system.

I'll beat Tor to the punch and point out the Time Travel Magic in the out of print and thus no longer canon Transdimensional Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

[say652]

Mjinor and StormBreaker.
Same weapon two different beings use them. Jussayin.

[eliakon]

it requires a Rifter class. the animator (which is quickly becoming one of the most broken classes that I have found) from Rifter #26. at level 9 he can create constructs that repair themselves over time, 2d6 every 30 seconds. if you take a chunk of gantrium (either raw, or forged in non magical fire.), animate it, and had someone file away at it, then the construct would "heal" itself by creating more material, however the shavings would be left behind. if you can get someone who can deal enough damage with a file, you could (assuming gantrium when not indestructible has a similar weight-to-sdc ratio to steel) create about 11 pounds per minute, more if there is less sdc per pound.

There are a couple issues I have with that.
1) it presumes that the shavings would stick around
2) it presumes that the repairs will magically create material to 'fix it'

I would be VERY likely to be inclined to say that the shavings will 'evaporate' at that same rate....I.E. the damaged parts return to the whole.

[Nightmask]

Mjinor and StormBreaker.
Same weapon two different beings use them. Jussayin.

If you're talking the Marvel Comics items then no they aren't the same weapon, Odin commissioned Stormbreaker's construction and gave it identical enchantments to Thor's hammer Mjolnir in order to reward Beta Ray Bill for his proven heroic nature to rival Thor.

[say652]

So If a greater god can make duplicate unique rune weapons.
Maybe a spell or combination of spells can infact duplicate minor weapons. Two greatest rune weapons for example.
Plausible! !

[eliakon]

So If a greater god can make duplicate unique rune weapons.
Maybe a spell or combination of spells can infact duplicate minor weapons. Two greatest rune weapons for example.
Plausible! !

I do not follow the logic of "If one of the most top tier beings in the megaverse (A greater god/head of pantheon) can do something (In another IP) Then mortal magic should be able to do it too."

[say652]

To a lesser degree. Yes.
Now the fun part. What exctly are we trying to duplicate? ?

[kiralon]

Gantrium

[say652]

Gantrium

No.

[BIBBI]

There are a couple issues I have with that.
1) it presumes that the shavings would stick around
2) it presumes that the repairs will magically create material to 'fix it'

I would be VERY likely to be inclined to say that the shavings will 'evaporate' at that same rate....I.E. the damaged parts return to the whole.

1) valid point, this is the biggest wrench in this system. my argument on why it would not is below.

2) specific wording is "Bio regenerate" all other bio regenerates in the game (most notably phoenixi) add more material and leave the cut off pieces

No.

as has been stated previously, purely for purposes of system mastery and curiosity. would likely never be used in game.

[say652]

A fixed item sure. But an unlimited supply of raw materials O.O I am a level 9000 Munchkin and I'm like dude thats just not fair. Lol