Mysteries of Magic: Is it worth buying?

[Dunia]

Here is a brief outline of what the book entails:

Chapter 1: Magic in History
* Ancient history of the Palladium World and how the history of the Palladium world was affected by magic and the evolution of magic. ca 7 pages

*Theory of magic, PPE, ISP, what is actually happening when you cast a spell. ca 7 pages.

*The magic and the different races. 6 pages

*How mages can earn their living, thinking outside the box in creating a mage. (What do mymage do when he is not adventuring: is he an alchemist, city guard, teacher, criminal? 9 pages (includes a few pages on priests)

Chapter 2: Secrets of Wizardry
* Apprenticeship (1 page)

* Magical Auras and how to denife those

*Familiars (New Rules - at least if you only have the Rifts books as I do, I do not know if the rules are new to Palladium players, just these rules are almost worth buying the book for) (3 pages)

*Magic Guilds (2 pages)

*magic in minirals and magical minerals (1 page)

*Cancelling & Breaking Spells (2 pages)

*How to learn new spells & creating new spells (Really nice chapter, with the Familiar rules above, this chapter is really nice.) (7 pages)

*Power of True Names and how to use them ingame (3 pages)

*New? OOCs: Forsaken mage, Half-mage, Psi-Mystics, Goblin Cobblers 14 pages

*New Skills for mages (and others), 3 pages

Chapter 3: Grimoire
New Spells (some are taken from Rifts and converted to PF) for Wizards and Warlocks (14 pages)

Maybe I have calculated some pages wrong, i just woke up :)

I hope that I have not written any illegal stuff. just wanted to tease you into buying this book. It was the last book I bought and although I do not play P F I could easily convert all rules to Rifts setting.

I found this book much better than the Book of magic and there is more theoretical food for a GM and player wizard in this book than in BoM (but BoM holds more spells) Having both of them does not cancel out the other.
As I said before: The rules on building spells, building the powers of your familiar alone makes this book a really good buy.

As this is called "book 1" hopefully you fans might see a book 2 and book 3 down the line in a few years.

Mark hall is a good writer and I really love the art inside epscially Amy's but much of the other art is really nice and I have not seen it before

Hope this will help! ASk more if you have other questions.

[Dunia]

See I can write possitive things about PB products :D

[Glistam]

Personally I felt like Mysteries of Magic was (overall) a weaker version of Through the Glass Darkly. If I only had Palladium Fantasy books it would be a great resource to have (A+). If you have a Megaversal collection and pull rules from all those sources then it's a bit weak (B-/C+). It has value as a Megaversal sourcebook beecause it does have new, unique stuff about magic but whether or not you'll ever use that stuff... well, your mileage may vary.

[Scott Gibbons]

I found it well worth purchasing, even though I own almost the entire catalog of Palladium's books; the Forsaken and Half-mage O.C.C. make the book worth it all by themselves - my two cents.

[Damian Magecraft]

I'm a huge fan of magic in the game and prefer magic-based classes over tech-based classes. I have almost every magic-related book that Palladium has put out for Rifts, PFRPG, Chaos Earth, Nightbane, and such. I don't have this one, yet, and I'm a bit wary of it.

The official description says:

The Heart of Magic™ is packed with new information, details and new insight about magic, P.P.E., the Palladium World, Men of Magic, Wizards, Warlocks, Priests, Familiars, true names, apprenticeship, scroll conversion, learning magic, new and different magic O.C.C.s, new Wizard and Warlock spells, and data that expands, defines and clarifies a number of aspects about the practice of magic in the Palladium Fantasy setting. New O.C.C.s and spells can be dropped into any S.D.C. setting and easily adapted to Rifts®.

My question is: exactly how much "new" information is there?

Recently, I bought the Old Ones book. Here's what it's official description says:

Second Edition Book Two: Old Ones: An updated version of the original title with rules modifications, new information about the Old Ones, additional new artwork and a new cover. Still contains the maps and descriptions of 34 major communities in and around the Timiro Kingdom. Plus adventure in the mysterious Dwarven ruins known as the Place of Magic. The dreaded Old Ones and six adventures.

To be perfectly honest, this book has no new information on the Old Ones. In fact, it only has three pages at the very beginning of the book about the Old Ones and then it drops the subject entirely. Now, it's still a good book and has a lot of great PFRPG information in it. I'm glad I bought it, but it's sure as hell NOT about the Old Ones. Bait-and-Switch.

I'm interested in buying Mysteries of Magic, but I don't want to get it and find out its just a rehash of other material like Dark Conversions was.

at the time of its printing it was the only source for information on the old ones and the adventures in the book do center around the Old Ones.

I find M.O.M. to be quite useful.
Dunia provided a good break down of what is found in the book.

[Damian Magecraft]

at the time of its printing it was the only source for information on the old ones

At the time of it's printing? Original printing was 1984. Thirty years have passed since then. Call me crazy but perhaps the description should be updated. Ya think?

and the adventures in the book do center around the Old Ones.

That's not completely true. The adventures do center around one Old One, Syth - who gets one whole paragraph of information about him. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Again...
At the time of its original publication that was more information than we had.
Update the descriptions?
there are only 4 full time employees in the company.
They have trouble producing two new books a year.
Do you want them to spend time dealing with descriptions or producing new product?
(yes, yes, I know it should be a simple process but consider the company's track record on time management).

Lets look at the blurb on the back of the Old Ones Book...
*The Monk Scholar and his coveted secrets
*The Illusionist
*The Minotaur RCCs, including warriors, the witch and Chaos Priest - All minions of the Old Ones
*Over 50 Different cities, towns and forts; all described and mapped. Includes the Timiro Kingdom.
*Seven adventures and scores of adventure ideas.
*More frightening details about the Old Ones and their minions!
*More World information and history.
Game Master and Player tips.
*Compatible with entire Megaverse.
*Over 200 pages.

Hmmmm....
everything the blurb states is truthful.
Where is the bait and switch?

All 7 adventures encompass 81 pages and combine to make one grand tale centered around an attempt to bring back one of the Old Ones. (Now the original 1st ed version did have stats for the GOOs a questionable decision IMO).

[flatline]

I bought it, flipped through it, never actually got around to reading it.

Maybe someday...

--flatline

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip...
*New? OOCs: Forsaken mage, Half-mage, Psi-Mystics, Goblin Cobblers 14 pages
...snip

There are only two new OCC's is the PF:MoM1: the Forsaken mage, and the Half-mage.

The Psi-Mystic text is an expansion on the PCC text from the PF2MB.

The Text on the Goblin Cobblers is an expansion on the sometime powers that some goblins get. Goblin Cobblers are a subset of goblins that have limited access to natural fae magic. This is not even a "class".
-----------
The spell creation and modification rules, NB:TtGD & PF:MoM1.
I find the TtGD rules seam to apply to a more modern culture. While the ones in MoM1 apply more to the high fantasy realms.

[say652]

Werent Cobblers in cb1??
Idk. I read all the game line books every chance I get.
This is how I found out I belong in Heroes Unlimited rather than Rifts.
But yea I a person who has played one leyline walker and a Burster will most likely get the book and trade it for..... you guessed it more superhero stuff.

[Lukterran]

there are only 4 full time employees in the company.
They have trouble producing two new books a year.
Do you want them to spend time dealing with descriptions or producing new product?

All three of these things listed here are a problem from a company prospective. It seems if they had a few more people working and creating new material that they could be bringing in more revenue. Also it would be nice if PB moved into the along witht the times and actually used technology to make the PF, HU, and PF worlds come alive. We are moving away from Pin and Paper folks, shoot I keep most of my character sheets and other game stuff on my tablet.

[zyanitevp]

I use MoM almost every weekly game. I find it essential.

[Eashamahel]

Werent Cobblers in cb1??

I'm pretty sure they were. Cobblers are just a rare version of the basic Goblin, so in the Conversion book where you have the Goblin stats, you have the Cobbler notes as well.


I just went and bought my first RIFTS book in years, and now I really want Mysteries of Magic. Honestly I've wanted it since it was announced but thought I would wait to get it and Book 2 together, as I was more interested in a second book of darker spells, things like necromancy for Fantasy. Seeing how most people seem to enjoy it, and that it's just filled with neat information and such, I think I'll pick it up.

[Tor]

I found the primary thing of importance here to be the new rules on what knowing true names does. Megaverse-warping, really. Magic is now scary against anybody now.

I also love the Pinocchio golems.

Plus the Ogress wizard. I want to marry her. So cute.

[Library Ogre]

Personally I felt like Mysteries of Magic was (overall) a weaker version of Through the Glass Darkly.

I hope so. I drew a lot of inspiration from that one. I only wish the full manuscript had been released.

[Library Ogre]

Werent Cobblers in cb1??
Idk. I read all the game line books every chance I get.
This is how I found out I belong in Heroes Unlimited rather than Rifts.
But yea I a person who has played one leyline walker and a Burster will most likely get the book and trade it for..... you guessed it more superhero stuff.

Cobblers were in PF, and CB1. These are pretty much from my Rifter article on Goblins (called Young, Dumb and Ugly, though I can't remember the issue it was in), more or less producing the Cobbler version of a Mind Mage... someone with natural powers who, instead of going into a separate field of study, just focused on being good with their natural abilities.

[Eashamahel]

I found the primary thing of importance here to be the new rules on what knowing true names does. Megaverse-warping, really. Magic is now scary against anybody now.

I also noticed the 'True Name' section, and was wondering how much that applied to RIFTS and other settings, since they (RIFTS especially) don't really seem to use the true name mechanic.

[TriOpticon]

Cobblers were in PF, and CB1. These are pretty much from my Rifter article on Goblins (called Young, Dumb and Ugly, though I can't remember the issue it was in)

It is in The Rifter #16, page 24.

[Glistam]

Personally I felt like Mysteries of Magic was (overall) a weaker version of Through the Glass Darkly.

Hmmm. I have Through The Glass Darkly.

How extensive are the new spells (both wizard & warlock)?

There's 34 Wizard invocations, 7 Air Elemental spells, 9 Earth Elemental spells, 4 Fire Elemental spells (getting the short end of the stick), 8 Water Elemental spells. Some of the Wizard spells are Warlock magic usable by Wizards (so descriptions are omitted), and some of them are Rifts: Book of Magic invocations presented for Palladium Fantasy adherents, and some are new and unique. In my opinion some of the new Wizard spells are pretty cool, and there's some good new options for Earth Warlocks and Air Warlocks. But the spells presented for the other Elements I felt were underwhelming. Not a big deal for Water, since they get some cool stuff out of the Palladium Fantasy winter area books, but Fire gets the the short end of the stick.

Also, does it extend Warlock spells beyond 8th level?

Warlock spells are not extended past 8th level (not sure why that would be a concern...)

If you have a Megaversal collection and pull rules from all those sources then it's a bit weak (B-/C+).

Could you elaborate on this? I run a Megaversal campaign, though I do often throw Rifts PCs into the PFRPG world (with modifications) when they are doing dimensional travel.

Thanks.

Basically, the ideas and rules that Mysteries of Magic 1 introduce which are new and unique, are great and applicable to a Megaversal game/setting. The ideas and rules that were pulled/modified from books like Nightbane: Through the Glass Darkly and Rifts: Book of Magic were "expanded" upon and in my opinion, toned down and further restricted. Probably a very appropriate power level adjustment for a pure Palladium Fantasy game, but because of that it seemed to me to be less useful for a Megaversal game.

The three things which come to mind are learning spells, creating new spells, and a mage's ability to pull/absorb in more P.P.E. than their usual base. For the first two, I much preferred the rules presented in TtGD, and for the last one it was "nerfed" compared to the Rifts: Book of Magic. I understand that for a pure Palladium Fantasy setting, it's great to have any rules for this stuff at all, and why I think the book is A+ for a pure Palladium Fantasy game.

Also, to be clear, I don't regret having this book at all. I have pulled aspects of the book into my Heroes Unlimited campaign along with certain things from the other two books I mentioned. Having this book gave me more options, and where rules collide and don't mesh up it's easy to chock it up to the differences in magic between the various settings.

Personally I felt like Mysteries of Magic was (overall) a weaker version of Through the Glass Darkly.

I hope so. I drew a lot of inspiration from that one. I only wish the full manuscript had been released.

I do look forward to purchasing Mysteries of Magic 2, whenever it gets released.

[Library Ogre]

Also, does it extend Warlock spells beyond 8th level?

Warlock spell levels aren't the same as spell magic... generally, take the warlock level, double it, and add or subtract 0 or 1, and you have the appropriate wizard spell level. Warlock spells of 9th+ level are going to be truly earth-shattering things. Spells of Legend.

[URLeader Hobbes]

Is it worth buying?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=108345&hilit=detailed+review

No.

[sHaka]

I thought it was excellent, a foundation for the rest of the MoM series - explaining the very basics of magic as a science and as an art, expanding on Wizards, spell books, true names and more - the additional OCCs were excellent too. Just the opening few pages of fluff alone provide great gaming ideas.

This is worth $17 of any PFRPGer's money, IMO.

[Tor]

wondering how much that applied to RIFTS and other settings, since they (RIFTS especially) don't really seem to use the true name mechanic.

I figure it to be a Megaversal rule, Palladium Fantasy like Rifts is already an interdimensional setting.

The reason PF has such a taboo about revealing true names while Rifts doesn't is I think due to cultural establishment. PF has been stable and magic has been in it for much longer than Rifts Earth, so the RE people who know about true name power are probably limited by comparison.

[Library Ogre]

wondering how much that applied to RIFTS and other settings, since they (RIFTS especially) don't really seem to use the true name mechanic.

I figure it to be a Megaversal rule, Palladium Fantasy like Rifts is already an interdimensional setting.

The reason PF has such a taboo about revealing true names while Rifts doesn't is I think due to cultural establishment. PF has been stable and magic has been in it for much longer than Rifts Earth, so the RE people who know about true name power are probably limited by comparison.

Keep in mind that, on Palladium, magic is the established technology, helped along by the early power of magic compared to technology... when you need magic to fight the beasties of the world, your clever people get channeled into making magic, not learning metallurgy. This explains some of the slow growth of physical technology in the Palladium world... it's just not been as useful.

Dwarves, on the other hand, are kind of unique. By forsaking magic, and already having the basics of a physical technological culture, they started developing further physical technology. I imagine many great old works of the dwarves are less engineering and more imagineering... telling the Earth Elemental what you want done and it does it. Once they gave up magic, though, they had to figure out how to create and maintain this stuff on their own (with the rare intervention of priest magic).

[drewkitty ~..~]

I found the primary thing of importance here to be the new rules on what knowing true names does. Megaverse-warping, really. Magic is now scary against anybody now.

I also noticed the 'True Name' section, and was wondering how much that applied to RIFTS and other settings, since they (RIFTS especially) don't really seem to use the true name mechanic.

It applies as much as your GM wants it to be
-------
Megavercial Rules
While there are somethings that are common to all the settings, those are the things that are spelled out as the same in each setting. There are things that are in the Rifts setting that are not in the PFRPG setting because RUE moved rifts away from PFRPG.
Example: in the PF setting a mage can draw PPE from someone without that person even knowing what is happening (almost a copy and paste of the rules in the RMB), and in RUE a mage can only draw PPE from a person who knows what is happening.

With every book the rules change, but for a rule in one setting to be canon/official in a different setting, that rule needs to be published in one of that 2nd setting's gamebooks. Otherwise it is just a GM importing that rule for his game.
---------
True Names.
Part of it is that the rune writing mage has the ability to target a specific person via their True Name written into a spell sequence.

[Library Ogre]

Not a big deal for Water, since they get some cool stuff out of the Palladium Fantasy winter area books, but Fire gets the the short end of the stick.

hi!

a quick question, in which "winter" book(s) would I find new water spells?

cheers!

Mancario

Northern Hinterlands and Library of Bletherad both have new ice-based spells.

[Tor]

for a rule in one setting to be canon/official in a different setting, that rule needs to be published in one of that 2nd setting's gamebooks.

I don't think so, my approach is more like "rules are all interchangeable except where there is direct conflict/contradiction.

The 'take PPE from others' and 'rate PPE comes from ley lines' are good examples of direct conflicts where it's more of a one or another thing. If Rifts had different rules on true name penalties I'd agree to use those, but it hasn't touched the issue.

With Hades/Dyval now being both PF-spawned dimensions and now Rifts dimension books, if it doesn't interchange it's just going to be a mess.

[drewkitty ~..~]

for a rule in one setting to be canon/official in a different setting, that rule needs to be published in one of that 2nd setting's gamebooks.

I don't think so, my approach is more like "rules are all interchangeable except where there is direct conflict/contradiction.

The 'take PPE from others' and 'rate PPE comes from ley lines' are good examples of direct conflicts where it's more of a one or another thing. If Rifts had different rules on true name penalties I'd agree to use those, but it hasn't touched the issue.

With Hades/Dyval now being both PF-spawned dimensions and now Rifts dimension books, if it doesn't interchange it's just going to be a mess.

It is at the GM's descression if he or she wants to import any rules from other setting....which makes that situation fall under "The GM importing rules for his or her game." Not that the rules are megavercial.
-------------
There are Snow spell in Northern Hinterlands.

[Tor]

Importability, Megaversality, hard to see a diff. People import/export with subsequent world books and dimension books too, other game books are just another place.

Anyone know what HoM's sequel in the MoM series will be called?

[BuzzardB]

Hmmmm....
everything the blurb states is truthful.
Where is the bait and switch?

I don't agree with the other guy that it was a bait and switch, but I too read through that book and wondered why they named it after the least substantial part of the book. Something like "Cities and Adventures" would have been a way more apt title.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Importability, Megaversality, hard to see a diff. People import/export with subsequent world books and dimension books too, other game books are just another place.

Anyone know what HoM's sequel in the MoM series will be called?

What GMs do in there games is up to them....what GM's do in their games does not effect what is canon for that setting.
Did you mean to say that Writers import stuff from other settings? If you did you need to give examples of what you mean.
Note: the RUE casting times rules were just made Optional for PFRPG with MoM1, it did not make them "The Canon" for PFRPG. As such can not be used as an example for the requested example from above, with said particulars of that sentence.


HoM??
MoM-->Mysteries of Magic?
Are you asking what the sequel to MoM1? or MoM2?