Tor wrote:Strong bump Thom! I think Palladium has edged away from any serious approaches to time stuff (at least backward, sole-foreward doesn't cause problems, is like being in stasis) due to the difficulties of resolving all the causation paradoxes that would crop up.
Even Transdimensional isn't entirely clear. I could've sworn there was some -kill your grandfather- issue brought up though I can't seem to relocate it, but the head of Time Lords has a fixing spell and there is also a technological fix-ripper device too.
Still no clear answer visible on the effects of what happens if fixers do not intervene though, or even how long they have to do it.
Can't have paradoxes if it is a quantum timeline rather than linear.
quantum timelines also have no drama, because who care's if Lord Evil Mcpuppy-kicker has gone back and changed history? it'll never effect the party because now he's stuck in another reality and someone elses problem.
if you want the players to care about stopping time traveling bad guys you need history able to change.. TDTMNT may not have had an approach to time travel that was as flexible as Hollywood's depictions, but it at least gave a reason for actually traveling back yourself and stopping the bad guys.. and the fact that time spent is always the same for everyone meant that you actually had to be clever about it.. no just traveling back to a few minutes before the change occurred to grab the bad guy when he arrives the first time..
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Tor wrote:Strong bump Thom! I think Palladium has edged away from any serious approaches to time stuff (at least backward, sole-foreward doesn't cause problems, is like being in stasis) due to the difficulties of resolving all the causation paradoxes that would crop up.
Even Transdimensional isn't entirely clear. I could've sworn there was some -kill your grandfather- issue brought up though I can't seem to relocate it, but the head of Time Lords has a fixing spell and there is also a technological fix-ripper device too.
Still no clear answer visible on the effects of what happens if fixers do not intervene though, or even how long they have to do it.
Can't have paradoxes if it is a quantum timeline rather than linear.
quantum timelines also have no drama, because who care's if Lord Evil Mcpuppy-kicker has gone back and changed history? it'll never effect the party because now he's stuck in another reality and someone elses problem.
if you want the players to care about stopping time traveling bad guys you need history able to change.. TDTMNT may not have had an approach to time travel that was as flexible as Hollywood's depictions, but it at least gave a reason for actually traveling back yourself and stopping the bad guys.. and the fact that time spent is always the same for everyone meant that you actually had to be clever about it.. no just traveling back to a few minutes before the change occurred to grab the bad guy when he arrives the first time..
I disagree, to a point...
If Lord Evil McPuppy-Kicker has gone back and changed history, and now is ruling over this alternate dimension, he is still a threat.
So what if he doesn't rule here? Who is to say he can't just come back with his new army of loyal servants and Conquer the standard RIFTS Earth? Lets even remove that... You know that now, Lord Evil McPuppy-Kicker is menacing people. Do your PC's only care about what directly affects them? Don't heroes oppose evil no matter where it is and protect people no matter where they are?
Tor wrote:Strong bump Thom! I think Palladium has edged away from any serious approaches to time stuff (at least backward, sole-foreward doesn't cause problems, is like being in stasis) due to the difficulties of resolving all the causation paradoxes that would crop up.
Even Transdimensional isn't entirely clear. I could've sworn there was some -kill your grandfather- issue brought up though I can't seem to relocate it, but the head of Time Lords has a fixing spell and there is also a technological fix-ripper device too.
Still no clear answer visible on the effects of what happens if fixers do not intervene though, or even how long they have to do it.
Can't have paradoxes if it is a quantum timeline rather than linear.
quantum timelines also have no drama, because who care's if Lord Evil Mcpuppy-kicker has gone back and changed history? it'll never effect the party because now he's stuck in another reality and someone elses problem.
if you want the players to care about stopping time traveling bad guys you need history able to change.. TDTMNT may not have had an approach to time travel that was as flexible as Hollywood's depictions, but it at least gave a reason for actually traveling back yourself and stopping the bad guys.. and the fact that time spent is always the same for everyone meant that you actually had to be clever about it.. no just traveling back to a few minutes before the change occurred to grab the bad guy when he arrives the first time..
I disagree, to a point...
If Lord Evil McPuppy-Kicker has gone back and changed history, and now is ruling over this alternate dimension, he is still a threat.
So what if he doesn't rule here? Who is to say he can't just come back with his new army of loyal servants and Conquer the standard RIFTS Earth? Lets even remove that... You know that now, Lord Evil McPuppy-Kicker is menacing people. Do your PC's only care about what directly affects them? Don't heroes oppose evil no matter where it is and protect people no matter where they are?
Tons of drama.
reminds me of one of the central plots of "the apocalypse Troll" by david weber interesting read in and of itself but it asks the big question ... is time linear, or is it more quantum, and does it matter.....
Tor wrote:Strong bump Thom! I think Palladium has edged away from any serious approaches to time stuff (at least backward, sole-foreward doesn't cause problems, is like being in stasis) due to the difficulties of resolving all the causation paradoxes that would crop up.
Even Transdimensional isn't entirely clear. I could've sworn there was some -kill your grandfather- issue brought up though I can't seem to relocate it, but the head of Time Lords has a fixing spell and there is also a technological fix-ripper device too.
Still no clear answer visible on the effects of what happens if fixers do not intervene though, or even how long they have to do it.
Can't have paradoxes if it is a quantum timeline rather than linear.
quantum timelines also have no drama, because who care's if Lord Evil Mcpuppy-kicker has gone back and changed history? it'll never effect the party because now he's stuck in another reality and someone elses problem.
if you want the players to care about stopping time traveling bad guys you need history able to change.. TDTMNT may not have had an approach to time travel that was as flexible as Hollywood's depictions, but it at least gave a reason for actually traveling back yourself and stopping the bad guys.. and the fact that time spent is always the same for everyone meant that you actually had to be clever about it.. no just traveling back to a few minutes before the change occurred to grab the bad guy when he arrives the first time..
EDIT [corrected text location]: Not true, are you telling me sliders had no drama? Most people including scientist will never realize it is quantum. Most would go back with the assumption that time is linear.
Last edited by Zer0 Kay on Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lenwen wrote:I have been wondering for quite a while now Rifts is a tear in the space and TIME of the fabric of reality .. We have multiple dimensions .. which can be seen by the dimension books. Why has Kevin not even even hinted at ever using this VERY sweet gaming idea for a new expansion of books ?
The limits on the possabilities for THAT .. expansion of books is just beyond anything currently put out by Palladium. So my question is simply put .. Why does Palladium not utilize this HUGE resource an put out a book like for it ?
They actually touch on this in megaverse in flames. Some of the initial waves of the minion wars actually took place during the post apocalypse dark ages due to the time aspect of rifts and the utter instability temporally and dimensionally.
It does bring up a point in the minion war being "recent" is a slippery term when one talks about dimensions across time and space.
As far as I can tell, Palladium has dealt with both Linear AND with Quantum approaches to backward time-travel.
In Between the Shadows, when you travel backward in time using the Void, it is strongly suggested (if not outright dictated) that you end up going to an alternate reality so you don't affect your own past.
The Minion War stuff sounds a lot like it deals with Linear, on the other hand.
Transdimensional TMNT dealt with both. The coils and stuff were about linear travel, but the dimension section also mentioned that parallel dimensions can exist which are exactly the same as your own except the big bang happened later or earlier, so they are in the past or future.
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