Robotech RPG Tactics has begun shipping

[AlexM]

We have begun shipping the game to our Kickstarter backers.






Oh yeah,
Alex Marciniszyn

[Shawn Merrow]

Awesome, very excited about this.

[wilycoyote]

Given that it has been estimated that each container fulfils about a quarter of the KS backed stuff and number 2 is yet to leave, it is likely that the KS orders will not be totally fulfilled until late November - each container was supposed to leave one week after each other but if number 2 is a guide it could be a longer wait than that

So you will most likely be dependent on container 5+ and therefore US Retail in December is a possibility if nothing else goes wrong with shipping.

However, as a non US backer I suspect I will be near the end of the KS packing process and so may be lucky if I see my initial stuff by then.

[godsgopher]

Keep an eye on E-bay. Some of the backers have sworn their selling their stuff as soon as it arrives. You may get a chance to get a good deal from someone who no longer wants the game.

[Alpha 11]

Keep an eye on E-bay. Some of the backers have sworn their selling their stuff as soon as it arrives. You may get a chance to get a good deal from someone who no longer wants the game.

Honestly, I think that is stupid of them. They are finally getting it. With basicly ever thing that was promised. Yes it is late, but at least give the game a shoot first before selling it.

[LtPebbles]

They might not want to invest the time to make the models to play the game before selling it off.

I almost got rid of my RRT when the first model sprues were being shown off. There are simply too many incredibly small pieces for each figure. I have mild shaking of the hands (which makes painting a serious challenge) and wouldn't be able to build that number of models. Fortunately, a friend stepped up and will be helping me.

But compared to Warhammer 40ks starter kit, Dark Vengeance, or other plastics, the RRT models are not very well laid out on the sprue. There wasn't an indication during the Kickstarter that it would take so long to build all these small, fragile pieces. So, people's expectations were not met and they are trying to get out while they can.

I wish those people the best, but I'm really looking forward to playing RRT when my copy arrives. Not looking forward to the model building, but that's a one time process, fortunately. I do hope the game is worth it and I also hope that PB will update the rulebook as required, publish expansions and promote the game to create a stable community.

[godsgopher]

Honestly, I think that is stupid of them. They are finally getting it. With basically ever thing that was promised. Yes it is late, but at least give the game a shoot first before selling it.

Oh personally I couldn't agree more! But some people may simply have reached their personal limit and just wish they had never seen the game. As for me, I'm already drooling over the painting possibilities. I know there are going to be issues. But I also believe that those of us who love this franchise can make it work.

[JimmyB]

I think 1/2 the people whining are only upset because
they planned to sell it on E-Bay anyway, and were hoping to
cash in on the "Before release" buyers. We have even had posts
that confirm this, claiming that not getting it early hurts them financially.

As far as I am concerned. These few people are not going to affect
how well Tactics does. So how about we stop worrying about them,
and concentrate on the positives.

Robotech Tactics play testing was very well received at Gen Con.
The Models on display look absolutely awesome.
And the backers are starting to receive copies as we speak.

I know I am far down the list to receive mine because I spent well above average.
But you will not see me complain. I will be here waiting, and hopefully enjoying
pictures from those who have already received theirs.

[Alpha 11]

They might not want to invest the time to make the models to play the game before selling it off.

I almost got rid of my RRT when the first model sprues were being shown off. There are simply too many incredibly small pieces for each figure. I have mild shaking of the hands (which makes painting a serious challenge) and wouldn't be able to build that number of models. Fortunately, a friend stepped up and will be helping me.

But compared to Warhammer 40ks starter kit, Dark Vengeance, or other plastics, the RRT models are not very well laid out on the sprue. There wasn't an indication during the Kickstarter that it would take so long to build all these small, fragile pieces. So, people's expectations were not met and they are trying to get out while they can.

I wish those people the best, but I'm really looking forward to playing RRT when my copy arrives. Not looking forward to the model building, but that's a one time process, fortunately. I do hope the game is worth it and I also hope that PB will update the rulebook as required, publish expansions and promote the game to create a stable community.

Did you see the youtube video of the guy who got a box from Gen Con? ( And he was a backer ) He liked the model sprues. Said it was better then several other games he is into. So, to him at least, they are good. So it looks like they have improved the sprues a little, at the least.

I think 1/2 the people whining are only upset because
they planned to sell it on E-Bay anyway, and were hoping to
cash in on the "Before release" buyers. We have even had posts
that confirm this, claiming that not getting it early hurts them financially.

As far as I am concerned. These few people are not going to affect
how well Tactics does. So how about we stop worrying about them,
and concentrate on the positives.

Robotech Tactics play testing was very well received at Gen Con.
The Models on display look absolutely awesome.
And the backers are starting to receive copies as we speak.

I know I am far down the list to receive mine because I spent well above average.
But you will not see me complain. I will be here waiting, and hopefully enjoying
pictures from those who have already received theirs.

Basicly same here. Though this will be my first time doing something like this. I'll most likely just do everything with basic colors and then gradually try do little improvements slowly over time to get them right. I'm also really considering having someone who does this a lot and is good doing this, do some of the, but that might get a little high, in price. So it might be just a few of them, if at all, if I went that rout.

[kevarin]

well someone got there copy and put it right up for sale currently one for sale on ebay going price 200 dollars

even more interesting is the place that shows it has sold 62 copies of the game at 76 dollars and says it has 10 more for sale

[Forar]

A) The one copy started at $200 bid, $400 buyout. Someone bidding killed the buyout option. That said, a single datapoint doesn't really mean anything. The 'first' of something available often goes for an extraordinary amount. As more people list boxes, they'll probably settle into a more reasonable price, and likely plunge to or below Retail once retail becomes an option. We're far from seeing where the supply and the demand settle, basically.

B) The other one is an ebay store that has had them listed since the middle of last year. They also have all 6 Retail Wave One expansions available as well.

[Alpha 11]

This is just sad to hear. Is this common with projects like this?

[Forar]

Yes. Low supply and high demand make it pretty common.

That said, assuming the boxes start flying out the warehouse, things generally begin to balance out in time.

Reaper Bones 'vampire' boxes were selling for 2-3 times what they sold for, I've been selling bits of my Through the Breach box locally at a pretty good pace. It depends on the campaign and a bunch of stuff, but it'll remain to be seen until there's more stuff to compare it to, in terms of secondary market and eventually online sales.

[Kryptt]

Did you see the youtube video of the guy who got a box from Gen Con? ( And he was a backer ) He liked the model sprues. Said it was better then several other games he is into. So, to him at least, they are good. So it looks like they have improved the sprues a little, at the least.

True but the same guy who made that video also made another where he builds the models. Out of a perfect 10 he gave the battloid a 4 (3 at first). The gerwalk I think a 6 and the fighter an 8. He built a few more and in his video he complains about how some design choices were just plain bad. He mentions how silly it was that some parts are two when they could have been one and how other parts didn't fit so well. At least it gives me something to prepare for. I've built models and miniatures and the occasional paper model. So I have years of experience to fall back on. The sprue design will hopefully be improved on in the future. The only other drawback I see is the prices for the quality your getting. I'm now resigned to accept what I'm getting considering the price point I got in on.

Do I expect tight rules? Nope. I can forgive that it's their first time writing minis rules. What does hurt it somewhat is the RPG rules being forced feed into it as well as the LOS and hth stuff.

[Pythdamion]

Lol, I just bought the one on ebay! Couldn't wait for retail.

[Kryptt]

Here's what you can look forward to like the rest of us.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNI0RCs41KQ

I have to disagree with his comment about sacrificing poseability. The models themselves just need to be better redesigned and you can still maintain poseability.

[Alpha 11]

Did you see the youtube video of the guy who got a box from Gen Con? ( And he was a backer ) He liked the model sprues. Said it was better then several other games he is into. So, to him at least, they are good. So it looks like they have improved the sprues a little, at the least.

True but the same guy who made that video also made another where he builds the models. Out of a perfect 10 he gave the battloid a 4 (3 at first). The gerwalk I think a 6 and the fighter an 8. He built a few more and in his video he complains about how some design choices were just plain bad. He mentions how silly it was that some parts are two when they could have been one and how other parts didn't fit so well. At least it gives me something to prepare for. I've built models and miniatures and the occasional paper model. So I have years of experience to fall back on. The sprue design will hopefully be improved on in the future. The only other drawback I see is the prices for the quality your getting. I'm now resigned to accept what I'm getting considering the price point I got in on.

Do I expect tight rules? Nope. I can forgive that it's their first time writing minis rules. What does hurt it somewhat is the RPG rules being forced feed into it as well as the LOS and hth stuff.

Didn't see that one. So thanks for that update.

Here's what you can look forward to like the rest of us.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNI0RCs41KQ

I have to disagree with his comment about sacrificing poseability. The models themselves just need to be better redesigned and you can still maintain poseability.

Thanks for the link!

[Kryptt]

Are you talking about BS? He just posted how fiddly the parts are when putting together the officers pod. I wouldn't go so far as calling them perfect.lol From an RPG pov there fine. From a TT gamers pov well...

I found my modeling saw so I'll see if I can mod one battloid in a basic walking pose. So far we'er all getting what almost feels like chess pieces with annoyingly small parts that have no reason being split in two.

[godsgopher]

Its unfortunately true that there are more pieces than were needed strictly speaking. In their quest for perfect detail they over did a number of the pieces. None the less when properly assembled they look very nice and I think people will enjoy them a good deal. From what I have heard Palladium will continue to refine their process and use the knowledge gained during this first run for all subsequent product.

[Ninjafingers]

Here's what you can look forward to like the rest of us.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNI0RCs41KQ

I have to disagree with his comment about sacrificing poseability. The models themselves just need to be better redesigned and you can still maintain poseability.

Man, that's a lot of itty-bitty pieces.

I'm not much of a wargamer (played Battletech and 40K in the 90s), but is there a reason why the models weren't single piece or less than six pieces? I admit I'm completely ignorant of such things.

[Axoid]

Man, that's a lot of itty-bitty pieces.

I'm not much of a wargamer (played Battletech and 40K in the 90s), but is there a reason why the models weren't single piece or less than six pieces? I admit I'm completely ignorant of such things.

There are technical reasons actually. First off, there's the material savings by making a part in 2 pieces. Let's take a Veritech leg for example. By having it hollowed out in the back, you save at least half the material you would have used to make a whole solid leg. Once together you never see inside so it's an ideal spot to shave weight, at the expense of a possible mold line and extra labor steps to assembly.

The second, and more important reason, is when you hollow out a part (like the leg), it allows you to maintain a uniform cross section through the part, which is needed to make good, sink-free plastic parts. Sink is when a solid chunk of plastic cools, and it sinks in on itself, giving the appearance of a dip in the surface. This usually happens near the thickest section of the part. If you have any old BattleTech Plastic 'Mechs, you've seen sink on them, they were horrible.

You can make solid parts without sink, but it requires higher injection pressure and hold times, which adds cost both in the molds (they need to be built to withstand the higher injection pressure, more $$$) and cycle times (need to hold that injection pressure longer to lessen the sink, more $$$).

You may think "So what's an extra few seconds in the molding process cost?" In my line of work (medical plastics), we strive to shave seconds off our injection molding, and that can add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in saving.

I for one am glad they did what they did. Sure it's more work to assemble, but the final quality will be so much better than the single pieces BT minis we're used to. You sacrifice detail with a reduced part count on these types of plastic minis.

With all that said, I'm sure there is room for reduced part count though. No process gets it 100% right the first try, that's why we have Lean Manufacturing

Thanks,
Don

[godsgopher]

Axoid, that was an exceptional explanation. Thank you very much I have been working in miniatures for years and knew none of that. Of course I have never made a miniature in plastic or metal. Still not common knowledge and I appreciate your sharing it. As I have said before I have already worked with many of these miniatures. Some of the pieces are annoyingly small. However once assembled they look exactly like they should. So the extra effort is worth it, and in the future I've heard the experience gained from this wave will be applied to the next and each following. I think we can expect the overall number to decrease with only a minimum loss of detail.

[Premier]

Man, that's a lot of itty-bitty pieces.

I'm not much of a wargamer (played Battletech and 40K in the 90s), but is there a reason why the models weren't single piece or less than six pieces? I admit I'm completely ignorant of such things.

There are technical reasons actually. First off, there's the material savings by making a part in 2 pieces. Let's take a Veritech leg for example. By having it hollowed out in the back, you save at least half the material you would have used to make a whole solid leg. Once together you never see inside so it's an ideal spot to shave weight, at the expense of a possible mold line and extra labor steps to assembly.

The second, and more important reason, is when you hollow out a part (like the leg), it allows you to maintain a uniform cross section through the part, which is needed to make good, sink-free plastic parts. Sink is when a solid chunk of plastic cools, and it sinks in on itself, giving the appearance of a dip in the surface. This usually happens near the thickest section of the part. If you have any old BattleTech Plastic 'Mechs, you've seen sink on them, they were horrible.

You can make solid parts without sink, but it requires higher injection pressure and hold times, which adds cost both in the molds (they need to be built to withstand the higher injection pressure, more $$$) and cycle times (need to hold that injection pressure longer to lessen the sink, more $$$).

You may think "So what's an extra few seconds in the molding process cost?" In my line of work (medical plastics), we strive to shave seconds off our injection molding, and that can add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in saving.

I for one am glad they did what they did. Sure it's more work to assemble, but the final quality will be so much better than the single pieces BT minis we're used to. You sacrifice detail with a reduced part count on these types of plastic minis.

With all that said, I'm sure there is room for reduced part count though. No process gets it 100% right the first try, that's why we have Lean Manufacturing

Thanks,
Don

Thank You Don the Axoid for such a well written and informative posts. I look forward to more posts from you and certainly your squadrons!

[Premier]

Keep an eye on E-bay. Some of the backers have sworn their selling their stuff as soon as it arrives. You may get a chance to get a good deal from someone who no longer wants the game.

Honestly, I think that is stupid of them. They are finally getting it. With basicly ever thing that was promised. Yes it is late, but at least give the game a shoot first before selling it.

I can "give the game a shot" with foamboard bases and popsicle stick stand in minis, especialy since at the rate Palladium is moving on shipping, there will be a scanned torrent copy of the rules available, heck, probably is one now.

Actually, for the most part we are getting the bare minimum promised since by the evidence, Palladium didn't start preproduction until early this year and again, by the evidence, Ninja Division was not actively nor enthusiastically involved before many of the flawed designs were set in stone. Which means that what is being shipped is NOT what was promised, but what is the bare minimum to avoid triggering Kickstarter forcing Palladium to give up refunds.

Larry, as a freelancer who was in the Palladiumbooks office last year, and the year before that and whom attended Gen Con both this year and last, I can respectfully say that your assessment regarding preproduction and Ninja Division's enthusiastic involvement are empirically false.

There is pictorial proof of some of the preproduction units taken in glass showcases inwhich some were of the actual masters of RRT products. Both Palladiumbooks and Ninja Division had RRT units at their booths and it was Ninja Division that debut RRT test play at several gaming conventions and uploaded the gameplay video during the Kickstarter. Preproduction certainly began before the beginning of this year and speaking for Ninja Division's enthusiasm in such an erroneous form is misleading.

Many Hard core Robotech fans, RRT Backers and miniature gamers have commented on the minis and have rated them very well in quality, even with the level on intricate assembly and parts. There are post on these forums that support my statement plus the numerous compliments and pictorial refs.

[Forar]

"Masters"? I could swear they had some 3D printed prototypes, but that's just part of the steps to get to production. I believe that's a point after the renders are done but before a sprue layout is completed, 3D prints of the sprue pieces are made for assembly, molds are cut, test sprues are punched and final revisions are made.

Basically, sure, work has been done, but considering the year it took to go from Renders to test sprues (granted, including a file compatibility issue we didn't find out about until earlier this year, but hopefully one that shouldn't be repeated), it's hard to take at face value reassurances that they're totally far along without more evidence than that. I could swear they had 3DPP of a MAC II at Gencon 2013, doesn't mean they're on the verge of punching plastic for them.

And considering how long it took to get final final ultimate ultra final approval for a dozen or so sprues for wave 1, I'm doubtful that the roughly two dozen I estimate wave 2 will consist of will be done swiftly, especially with so much of the staff's time and energy consumed with the books they're still trying to get out and shipping out wave one to backers and then retail (not to mention grab bag season coming up).

It would be a pleasant surprise to receive wave two sooner rather than later, but settling in for the long haul seems prudent until we see some significant evidence otherwise regarding W2's status.

And if some W2 is just short of the mold step, then great! But believing that they were totally on the verge of production a year and a half ago (the infamous 'we expect to be at production within 45 days of the KS campaign completing) is part of what got us here as crankily as we did (for some backers, at least).

[Premier]

"Masters"? I could swear they had some 3D printed prototypes, but that's just part of the steps to get to production. I believe that's a point after the renders are done but before a sprue layout is completed, 3D prints of the sprue pieces are made for assembly, molds are cut, test sprues are punched and final revisions are made.

Basically, sure, work has been done, but considering the year it took to go from Renders to test sprues (granted, including a file compatibility issue we didn't find out about until earlier this year, but hopefully one that shouldn't be repeated), it's hard to take at face value reassurances that they're totally far along without more evidence than that. I could swear they had 3DPP of a MAC II at Gencon 2013, doesn't mean they're on the verge of punching plastic for them.

And considering how long it took to get final final ultimate ultra final approval for a dozen or so sprues for wave 1, I'm doubtful that the roughly two dozen I estimate wave 2 will consist of will be done swiftly, especially with so much of the staff's time and energy consumed with the books they're still trying to get out and shipping out wave one to backers and then retail (not to mention grab bag season coming up).

It would be a pleasant surprise to receive wave two sooner rather than later, but settling in for the long haul seems prudent until we see some significant evidence otherwise regarding W2's status.

And if some W2 is just short of the mold step, then great! But believing that they were totally on the verge of production a year and a half ago (the infamous 'we expect to be at production within 45 days of the KS campaign completing) is part of what got us here as crankily as we did (for some backers, at least).

Forar, I am strictly clarifying the misleading assessment that Larry A made in his above post regarding preproduction and ND's involvement.

[Tzneentch]

well as long as I can feel safe in the knowledge that "It is our commitment to you, the Kickstarter backers, that we will maintain consistent communication throughout the process. This means regular updates, product photos, and plenty of behind the scenes insight as we complete the creation of Robotech® RPG Tactics™." Ok I can give u guys a 60-70% mark here im sure that even you can even admit yourself that there's room for improvement but you guys did ok here.

and that "What we do know is that Kickstarter backers will be shipped goods BEFORE we ship to distributors." If I see this game in a store BEFORE I have received my backer kit there will be hell to pay. This is the heart of the matter for Kickstarter's, we got in first we backed your "vision" we expect to be placed first in line, no "if's" no "buts", no EXCEPTIONS!.

[Forar]

Luckily, Wayne has said in these very forums that they are aware of the pressure to deliver pallets to retailers by the holiday season, which looms a mere 6 weeks away, but that they will be shipping to backers before retail.

Depending on ones location and the efficiency of local mail distribution for the chosen backer option versus however the distribution chain works, it's not impossible that some people will have packages sailing to them while a distributor is flying boxes out to retail stores.

Basically, far as I'm reading it, the current 'promise' is that all of the backer boxes will be *in the mail* before they hand pallets over to distributors, but that's not a guarantee that every last backer will have their boxes in hand before the product is available at stores.

Which some will find unpleasant, even ire worthy, but as vocally critical of this project as I have been, I can respect them trying to live by the letter of the 'law' (as it were), even if the 'spirit' gets a little smudged in the process.

What could become very messy would be if they wrap up US backer boxes and then ship some product off to US distributors while still working out EU/ROW (Rest Of World) backer boxes.

That'd probably be pitchforks and torches time, but we're not there yet.

And hey, they did say they planned to ship everything off by the end of October, so it shouldn't be an issue!

... though a lack of product maaaaaaay hold that up a week or three.

Which is kind of a huge problem.

[TagsPB]

After being at the office allllllllllll of this week (and most of last week too) I can tell you the plan is to get everything out to the kickstarter backers 1st (tell container 3 to get to the office already) once tose are all shipped out the door then the distributors get packages up and out the door.....keep in mind if they were to wait for everyone to get their order in hand before sending to distributors then that would mean waiting for people who have not changed their addresses to figure out they didn't and then that package has to go back to Palladium and be reshipped.

[Shawn Merrow]

Got mine yesterday and having fun.

[Premier]

Larry, as a freelancer who was in the Palladiumbooks office last year, and the year before that and whom attended Gen Con both this year and last, I can respectfully say that your assessment regarding preproduction and Ninja Division's enthusiastic involvement are empirically false.

There is pictorial proof of some of the preproduction units taken in glass showcases inwhich some were of the actual masters of RRT products. Both Palladiumbooks and Ninja Division had RRT units at their booths and it was Ninja Division that debut RRT test play at several gaming conventions and uploaded the gameplay video during the Kickstarter. Preproduction certainly began before the beginning of this year and speaking for Ninja Division's enthusiasm in such an erroneous form is misleading.

Many Hard core Robotech fans, RRT Backers and miniature gamers have commented on the minis and have rated them very well in quality, even with the level on intricate assembly and parts. There are post on these forums that support my statement plus the numerous compliments and pictorial refs.

Seriously? Then why the dead silence on RRT, pro forma comments and referring to Palladium that ND did for months? How were the original 3D printed prototypes the "masters" when the ND said that the cuts were changed? Why, when ND was directly asked after publically getting reinvolved in the late spring, did ND repeatedly respond to issues with statements like "that decision was already made and we are doing what we can to give you the bestest minis possible now"? The last was done several times when ND was directly asked about design flaws.

Finally, why was the cut of the minis matched to the cut of an old scale model kit that was much larger? ND's doing? At the time when ND was refusing to answer any questions about RRT?

Larry A, YES, Seriously.

I responded to your post specially stating:

Actually, for the most part we are getting the bare minimum promised since by the evidence, Palladium didn't start preproduction until early this year and again, by the evidence, Ninja Division was not actively nor enthusiastically involved before many of the flawed designs were set in stone. Which means that what is being shipped is NOT what was promised, but what is the bare minimum to avoid triggering Kickstarter forcing Palladium to give up refunds.

Now I have explained above and witnessed first-hand “pre-production”, some (RRT 3D Prototype printed/Masters) being handled and reviewed and even placed in the glass cases for “review” back at Gen Con 2013. You act as “if” Pre-production doesn’t consist of any changes/adjustments or as if EVERY unit had all these changes. The point is its Pre-production. There are quite a few people (including some posters here) that have received their RRT games & or Battlecries and have given unbiased reviews of these units and they seem to rate them very well. I have witnessed discussions, conference calls with PB and ND in 2013 and 2014. I have talked with ND personnel at Gen Con this year and last. Awesome Gents!!

Now simply because PB or ND doesn’t do things as active or as enthusiastic as you would personally like, doesn’t equate to either of them not being active or enthusiastic. The success of RRT is a showcase for both PB and ND, as it adorns both their flags on the product.

BTW, Some of my art happens to be in the RRT rulebook and I know when I completed these illustrations.

Another empiric example is that ND just shared a link on their FB to the RRT Rick Hunter paint job, ahem, “yesterday.”

BTW, Just because ND suggest that inquiries be directed to PB doesn’t imply enthusiasm, it could simply mean they (ND) have a lot on their plate (i.e.: Relic Knights, Soda Pop, Super Dungeon Explore and they did just launch a another KS not to long ago, plus they have other IPs) and it was already decided by the executives involved who would handle what.

Now, if your trying to argue/debate semantics on “pre-production” and “actively involved” to justify your posts assessment then fine, your welcome to do so, just note that I wont spend much time refuting what has empirically already been stated and proven otherwise.

My empiric points still stand:

A. “Pre-production” was started before this year

B. The sculpts being produced have been rated pretty high on the bar from Robotech/Battletech/Macross fans, Miniature Gamers and Collectors.

C. Ninja Division has always been active and is still currently active with RRT.

So I hope your just looking forward to RRT as is everyone else so we can move forward. The OP is about shipping and receiving RRT, now that they are shipping, I know this as well as I helped ship, so lets get back on track shall we.

C-Out

[Grabula]

I don't have the models in my hand yet but having watched some unboxing videos, and perused some hobby blogs of people who've got their stuff it looks to me that the models are fairly well done. I agree there were some pieces that didn't' need to be separate and so makes these kits somewhat more complex than they have to be but overall it looks like the designs are solid! The few hobby blogs of the valkyries I think shows they have plenty of detail and look to be really easy to paint because of it.

[Morgan Vening]

The success of RRT is a showcase for both PB and ND, as it adorns both their flags on the product.

I'm not intending to quote you out of context, I just snipped because it was a lot of statement I didn't want to duplicate, to make one counterpoint.

Ninja Division's FB page does do RRT features relatively regularly. However, the fact that Ninja Division has zero mention of RRT on their actual website, either as it's own entry, or even a clickthrough to a Palladium page, has been seen by some (including myself) as at least anecdotal evidence that ND are distancing themselves from the project for some reason. Speculation has been made as to why, and obviously few people know. But it does stand out as at least an outlier into the "Everything is Awesome" trinity of HG/PB/ND.

[Grabula]

Didn't they just post some painted robotech pictures by pythdamion?

I feel like ND was engaged to operate the miniatures side of things for palladium which has a lot less experience. They have their own games to push and RRT is a palladium game but designed by ND so it might make sense that they leave most of the advertising to Palladium I would think.

[Premier]

The success of RRT is a showcase for both PB and ND, as it adorns both their flags on the product.

I'm not intending to quote you out of context, I just snipped because it was a lot of statement I didn't want to duplicate, to make one counterpoint.

Ninja Division's FB page does do RRT features relatively regularly. However, the fact that Ninja Division has zero mention of RRT on their actual website, either as it's own entry, or even a clickthrough to a Palladium page, has been seen by some (including myself) as at least anecdotal evidence that ND are distancing themselves from the project for some reason. Speculation has been made as to why, and obviously few people know. But it does stand out as at least an outlier into the "Everything is Awesome" trinity of HG/PB/ND.

Morgan Vening, thank you for the post and I can understand why such reasoning is derived.

My point was simply indicating that ND, PB and HG for that matter all benefit from the success of RRT. ND's flag is on the box and is part of the game's development and marketing. Its part of NDs portfolio of successes and they are indeed still actively supporting its production. I simply have enjoyed the perks of contributing to RRT and meeting both ND and PB, even HG at a convention. So as a freelancer and fan of Robotech I am simply thankful that RRT has manifested. All of the other sideline speculations or fears simply don't interest me nor should it be a significant factor imho in regards to RRT's reception now that product has begun to ship. Sure there were setbacks and some let downs, but now that we are in the final stretch I simply saw no reason for a post to try to stimulate negative assumptions that could mislead sincere, supportive and anxious Backers.

[Premier]

Didn't they just post some painted robotech pictures by pythdamion?

I feel like ND was engaged to operate the miniatures side of things for palladium which has a lot less experience. They have their own games to push and RRT is a palladium game but designed by ND so it might make sense that they leave most of the advertising to Palladium I would think.

Well stated.

[Grabula]

Sure there were setbacks and some let downs, but now that we are in the final stretch I simply saw no reason for a post to try to stimulate negative assumptions that could mislead sincere, supportive and anxious Backers.

I think I can sympathize on both sides lol. On the one hand I've been pretty patient with the waiting for this to come out, I'm a big gamer and a big robotech fan so it's sort of a dream fulfillment of mine. Kickstarter is still relative new as a concept and seems like everyone is having a hard time gauging the timing of the processes that go into starting one, developing product and getting them out to stores. Of the three KS I've bought into none of them have come in on the schedule they set so I just expect it, though this, and another I'm a part of have taken exceptionally long. Hopefully I'll see my battlecry stuff here soon so I can get moving forward with a project I'm super excited about. Even I've started to get a little antsy about it! BUT that's no reason to go around pointing fingers, and quitting on the game like some claim to have seems a little over reactionary. Palladium is a company who's had a bumpy ride every so often and ND hasn't been able to produce product on time with a KS either so it's not completely surprising. I can't assume ineptitude on either parties parts, just some inexperience using a new process. It's easy enough to criticize from afar but again, I have yet to see a miniatures company produce anything but a handful of miniatures on time through a KS.

Personally I wish these companies would get a lot farther along before kicking off their KS campaigns but I get that they have to generate interest to gauge success. So, I'm of two minds on the subject but ultimately, all of the 'negative' stuff will disappear for me once I see that box on my doorstep lol!

** That was a wall of text to basically say I sympathize with people getting impatient but I can't totally attribute the lateness to incompetence or any nefarious motivations. I think once the product begins to flow there are going to be a lot of happy robotech gamers!

[Forar]

Well, since the matter of ND and PB's working relationship has come up again, I'm curious what the word is on Ninja John (and his crew?) helping with the shipping, as was mentioned a few months back as a generous offer of assistance.

I mean, plans and schedules change, I'm not trying to GOTCHA anyone on the matter, but it was a rather notable offer made during a time when the ND FB page and site lacked much of anything tying them to RRT. Even their previous parroting of the updates seems to have stopped, and going back 3 months on their FB page, RRT only seems to be mentioned or shown 3 or 4 times. There's been a recent spike with painting tutorials popping up, but the franchise seems to get only passing attention.

Note, I'm not trying to stir this into some kind of 'feud' or 'drama', but I think it's a non-controversial statement to say that their social media profile for the game has dropped considerably in the past year and a half, with a few pop ups here and there. It's not 'gone', but whatever work is going on behind the scenes, it's certainly not at the forefront.

And with other projects on the go, that might just be only having so many hours in the day. But it's still something people have noticed over the course of this project all the same.

[Premier]

Sure there were setbacks and some let downs, but now that we are in the final stretch I simply saw no reason for a post to try to stimulate negative assumptions that could mislead sincere, supportive and anxious Backers.

I think I can sympathize on both sides lol. On the one hand I've been pretty patient with the waiting for this to come out, I'm a big gamer and a big robotech fan so it's sort of a dream fulfillment of mine. Kickstarter is still relative new as a concept and seems like everyone is having a hard time gauging the timing of the processes that go into starting one, developing product and getting them out to stores. Of the three KS I've bought into none of them have come in on the schedule they set so I just expect it, though this, and another I'm a part of have taken exceptionally long. Hopefully I'll see my battlecry stuff here soon so I can get moving forward with a project I'm super excited about. Even I've started to get a little antsy about it! BUT that's no reason to go around pointing fingers, and quitting on the game like some claim to have seems a little over reactionary. Palladium is a company who's had a bumpy ride every so often and ND hasn't been able to produce product on time with a KS either so it's not completely surprising. I can't assume ineptitude on either parties parts, just some inexperience using a new process. It's easy enough to criticize from afar but again, I have yet to see a miniatures company produce anything but a handful of miniatures on time through a KS.

Personally I wish these companies would get a lot farther along before kicking off their KS campaigns but I get that they have to generate interest to gauge success. So, I'm of two minds on the subject but ultimately, all of the 'negative' stuff will disappear for me once I see that box on my doorstep lol!

** That was a wall of text to basically say I sympathize with people getting impatient but I can't totally attribute the lateness to incompetence or any nefarious motivations. I think once the product begins to flow there are going to be a lot of happy robotech gamers!

I think you have summed up my sentiments exactly.

BTW, you mentioned a "project" once you receive your Battlecry, is this something you can share details or is it for your Players and more of a surprise, or something entirely different, just curious?

[slaaneshgod]

Just got my wave one last Tuesday. It took a bit to organize and I have only gotten a fighter mode Valkyrie mostly assembled( plan to magnetize head and weapon options if I can figure out how). Loving the look of the rules I have read the entire book now. The miniatures are a little smaller than I realized and there are quiet a few small parts but I have dealt with model kits that were far worse and so far it has mostly went together easily and the instuctions are clear and honestly most of it is easy to figure out by looking. I'm looking forward to playing. Need to order a few things that I didn't realize I wouldn't have quiet enough of but I mostly focused on getting one of everything not playable groupings especially considering I didn't know anything about rules yet. I was one of the very unhappy kick starter backers (lack of information, misinformation,delays,giving away freebies when we didn't have the stuff we waited soo long and paid for, etc... But I am truly happy with what I see and it is very much so what I hoped it would so far. Still have to play but need to assemble it all first so might be a few weeks.

[jdarr5000]

Well got mine today now for 2 weeks of assembly

[zyanitevp]

Well got mine today now for 2 weeks of assembly

Congrats!

[zyanitevp]

Didn't they just post some painted robotech pictures by pythdamion?

I feel like ND was engaged to operate the miniatures side of things for palladium which has a lot less experience. They have their own games to push and RRT is a palladium game but designed by ND so it might make sense that they leave most of the advertising to Palladium I would think.

Yes they did- and after playing some with pythdamion I am jazzed about this game!!

[zyanitevp]

Got mine yesterday and having fun.

Congrats!

[zyanitevp]

Keep an eye on E-bay. Some of the backers have sworn their selling their stuff as soon as it arrives. You may get a chance to get a good deal from someone who no longer wants the game.

Honestly, I think that is stupid of them. They are finally getting it. With basicly ever thing that was promised. Yes it is late, but at least give the game a shoot first before selling it.

I can "give the game a shot" with foamboard bases and popsicle stick stand in minis, especialy since at the rate Palladium is moving on shipping, there will be a scanned torrent copy of the rules available, heck, probably is one now.

Actually, for the most part we are getting the bare minimum promised since by the evidence, Palladium didn't start preproduction until early this year and again, by the evidence, Ninja Division was not actively nor enthusiastically involved before many of the flawed designs were set in stone. Which means that what is being shipped is NOT what was promised, but what is the bare minimum to avoid triggering Kickstarter forcing Palladium to give up refunds.

There was a scanned copy of the rules that Palladium linked to, obviously mistakenly, in an update- Really- get your facts straight.

[Grabula]

Well got mine today now for 2 weeks of assembly

Congrats! I heard from Palladium thursday, my address was coming up funny in their system but sounds like they worked it out and my stuff ships monday! Hopefully I'll see it by friday!

[Grabula]

I'm curious why'd you'd hang around Larry A if all you can see is negative? I'd imagine you'd have better things to do with your time then haunt the forums here if you've decided it's such a travesty?

It's pretty obvious you're unhappy with the product, though I take some umbrage at your implication that "real wargamers" would agree with your arguments. My gamer pedigree involves gaming of just about every kind but primarily wargaming starting with battletech around about 1985ish. If it helps put some perspective on it I'm also a 'hobbyist' not that I see any usefulness in that dichotomy - I like to model and paint as much as I like to play. I haven't seen anything coming from this project that should evince so much vitriol. Certainly I'd agree that there are some weird decisions made in the modeling department but I'm not surprised since Palladium isn't a traditional minis company. You seem to be defending ND but they themselves have had some issues on the back end and there was some sharp criticism when they were brought in as well. It also sucks that it's so late, but I haven't seen a KS that hasn't been late - I chalk it up to companies not yet adjusting to the proper production model required for KS, it's a fairly new concept. I've taken part in 3 KS and all of them have been late.

I'm willing to bet that if the game succeeds, Palladium might down the road make the necessary changes to the models to make them more user friendly. I haven't seen anything that's a deal breaker on the models so far.

I'm not a 'white knight', I just appear to have a lot more patience for this sort of thing than others. The lateness didn't bother me much since I'd rather they try to put out a better product than to rush it - and it's not like I had part and couldn't play until I got the rest, I had nothing so where's the harm in waiting.

I'm interested to see where things are in a year or two. My sincere hope is that it succeeds and we get more down the road. I'm a huge Invid Invasion fan and I'm really crossing my fingers we get a model line out of it. I think the company will evolve and adapt to miniatures and miniatures gaming and things will be a lot different down the road. Growing pains.

[slaaneshgod]

I have vocally disagreed with palladium and some of there decisions regarding this kick starter but as a "real wargamers" (being that I'm early in gw career as a pedigree like 1st fantasy edition and many other games from warmahordes to arcane legions to 5 or 6 others I've sold off over the years and multiple faction armies) and an outspoken opponent of decisions like selling before stuff was delivered and lack of communication, and considering I have my battlecry. I must state that the game rules are fairly decent considering Palladiums design history in such fields. I really don't have a lot of complaints about the models other than some of the tiny pieces are very tiny and the sprue layout is wacked out. I must disagree that this whole project is a bust. I feel it has been flawed and difficult and horribly frustrating but I feel the end product is very much what I was hoping for other than the scale is a bit smaller than I realized. I am now looking forward to full release so that I might get more stuff to flesh out my current collection and maybe an extra rulebook if they will sell them separately( Hint palladium please sell book by itself) as well as tokens and future releases. I look forward to more. Maybe some unused sentinels stuff even. So please reserve judgment and hate for true personal experience with the product and testing of your own and if you still feel that way then don't get into it. I don't like infinity or flames of war but doesn't mean I bash them and such. I just don't bother with these games. As a formerly outspoken opponent of what was going on with this and a kick starter backer(I truly changed my mind after reading the rules and getting some minis done at least on the game itself I still disagree with some of the communication issues and decisions made) I just urge taking the time to do your own testing(and we even got some parts on sprue I didn't remember unlocking, that is a plus that I wish they would have shared when they decided it might have helped some of my frustration) and if you still feel the same let it go and call it a loss like any "true wargamer" would with an army they decided to try and didn't like or any other game that isn't your thing. I don't play the warhammers anymore for the reason I don't like where things have gone but apparently some do because locally there is a resurgence. I am going to enjoy my robotech because I did get at least about what I expected when this started (,my hopes were fairly down too earth though) and in rules at least maybe a bit easier playability and simplicity which I honestly from readthrough like. Play testing could change that some but I am still mostly satisfied.

[Grabula]

slaaneshgod, you have some good points. I think everyone can agree this product isn't perfect, but what product is. I feel like if the community continues to support the game things will come around. I don't know how responsive Palladium is with their RPG's but it's possible they may hear reasonable requests for change and enact those down the road. It's not cheap to rebuild a model, change a sprue and create molds but if they see a financial argument for it (games selling well) then they may consider it. I haven't heard too many complaints about the rules yet which is a good sign.

As for rule books sold separately, I fully expect this to be the case. If I remember correctly the starter box is priced around 100$ US which is on par for most games and reasonable if two people go in together on one. But some people aren't going to want to go that route and I imagine it'll be separate at some point. Ideally an electronic format 'living' rulebook would be awesome but baby steps.

You said you received some extra stuff not in your original KS? What was it? I kind of wondered whether Palladium/ND was going to do something to reach out to those who chipped into the KS, an extra sprue of stuff, extra dice, whatever. I think a little something goes along way - anything would indicate to me that they hear and understand the complaints.

[slaaneshgod]

slaaneshgod, you have some good points. I think everyone can agree this product isn't perfect, but what product is. I feel like if the community continues to support the game things will come around. I don't know how responsive Palladium is with their RPG's but it's possible they may hear reasonable requests for change and enact those down the road. It's not cheap to rebuild a model, change a sprue and create molds but if they see a financial argument for it (games selling well) then they may consider it. I haven't heard too many complaints about the rules yet which is a good sign.

As for rule books sold separately, I fully expect this to be the case. If I remember correctly the starter box is priced around 100$ US which is on par for most games and reasonable if two people go in together on one. But some people aren't going to want to go that route and I imagine it'll be separate at some point. Ideally an electronic format 'living' rulebook would be awesome but baby steps.

You said you received some extra stuff not in your original KS? What was it? I kind of wondered whether Palladium/ND was going to do something to reach out to those who chipped into the KS, an extra sprue of stuff, extra dice, whatever. I think a little something goes along way - anything would indicate to me that they hear and understand the complaints.

Thank you! That was kind of a long ramble mostly urging people to give it a try before we ask for a burning at the stake. As for sprue layout I really don't see that changing and will get over it I have seen worse. Maybe a redesign when and if we make it to a 2nd edition after they release extended universe, shadow chronicles, masters, and invid sagas after a few years maybe. Might even be mnecessary for balance after a bunch gets added but that is down the road. Its just that some stuff is really hard to assemble (looking at you vf-1r battloid head), and sometimes stuff is really close to the sprue and hard to cut off or hard to tell sprue from part in a few instances. Nothing terrible I've seen way worse over the years but still beyond the average non miniatures or model kit person.no just would love an extra copy of the book and some more tokens and another template and such the only part I didn't know they were going to sell is book. They didn't include extra sprues or nothing but on the artillery regult sprue is the parts for the telnesta(experimental particle beam artillery pod) on the phalanx sprue is the parts for the experimental phalanx missiles which I don't think we unlocked, from the wave break down sheet it sounds like the queadluun-ra and the Nousjaedul-Ger both come with the options on them for their experimental addons. Its still awesome even if it is one or two extra bits but it would have been nice to get a "hey we added this stuff to the sprue for those kits because it fit so enjoy guys" would have helped I think. Nothing super crazy just few extra parts.