Two Dragon Hatchlings in a party

[masslegion]

I'm running my first RIFTs campaign as a GM and my overall gaming experience is somewhat limited.

We have a party of a CK, who is a master psionic
a Psi-druid,
a Malvoren from D-Bess of NA,
a crazyman
a Chiang-Ku Dragon Hatchling practicing Temporal Magic
and another RUE Hatchling.

Wow, how am I going to throw challenges against this party that are at least somewhat challenging for the two hatchlings, but not insanely deadly to the other party members?

Unfortunately some SDC combat is out the window unless it happens away from the hatchlings, which is easy enough with the RUE hatchling since metamorphosis does not last all day and villagers are not keen on allowing a dragon in town.

Any thoughts?

[Alrik Vas]

the challenge is you remind the RUE dragon player of the instinctual animosity they feel toward other dragons.

"Two women in the house, and one of them a red-head."
-Michalene Flynn., from The Quiet Man

[flatline]

Don't think in terms of "throwing challenges" at the PCs. Define the setting and let them pick their own challenges.

--flatline

[masslegion]

the challenge is you remind the RUE dragon player of the instinctual animosity they feel toward other dragons.

"Two women in the house, and one of them a red-head."
-Michalene Flynn., from The Quiet Man

Yeah this is another reason I'm concerned. I was unclear from reading that information if hatchlings share this animosity, but it is certainly clear that adult dragon have real issues with well everyone and among them their own kind.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm running my first RIFTs campaign as a GM and my overall gaming experience is somewhat limited.

We have a party of a CK, who is a master psionic
a Psi-druid,
a Malvoren from D-Bess of NA,
a crazyman
a Chiang-Ku Dragon Hatchling practicing Temporal Magic
and another RUE Hatchling.

Wow, how am I going to throw challenges against this party that are at least somewhat challenging for the two hatchlings, but not insanely deadly to the other party members?

Unfortunately some SDC combat is out the window unless it happens away from the hatchlings, which is easy enough with the RUE hatchling since metamorphosis does not last all day and villagers are not keen on allowing a dragon in town.

Any thoughts?

Have some SDC combat anyway.
Sometimes Mega-Damage force is inappropriate, and SDC combat would make the dragons have to think outside the box a bit.
Sometimes, it's nice to put characters in a situation where the players can feel powerful.
If you've got limited gaming experience anyway, it might be good practice handling the rules and such.

[Glistam]

A challenge for the group could be a similarly-composed group of people/beings, that way each member of the group has an appropriate challenge.

Cyber Knight master psionic, Psi-druid: Interesting opponents could be any of the other psi-classes, such as Mind-Melter, Burster, Zapper, Psi-Slinger, Psi-Warrior, Mind Bleeder. Alternatively, psi-stalkers and dog boys could be appropriate, too. For the Cyber Knight, also, some Mercenary classes may be appropriate antagonists.

Malvoren, Crazy: My first thought - Juicers. Juicers and Crazies have a rivalry built right into their O.C.C.'s, and the tech/gun focused Malvoren would have to find creative ways to get past their autododge. Alternatively, any O.C.C. or R.C.C. with autododge could be appropriate.

A Chiang-Ku Dragon Hatchling practicing Temporal Magic: There's a few options here. A Temporal Raider would be a very worthy challenge, especially when you consider they have their own Temporal Wizards and Temporal Warriors to call upon. Sunaj assassins or other Splugorth minions (like T-Men) could be appropriate, too. A smart Shifter would be a great opponent too, especially if he or she used his minions to his full advantage and stayed "behind the scenes." If the dragon uses the "Id Self" spell, then depending on the rolls and how it plays out then he could become his own enemy!

Another RUE Hatchling: Hatchlings in general are roughly "on par" with Full Conversion Borgs and Power Armor, so as a general idea one of them could be a good opponent. The Anti-Monster from South America is another idea too.

Basically though, I agree with everyone else posted above. Don't be too worried if the group walks over enemies, especially in the beginning. It's not as high-power a group as you're fearing - I think the "highest power" character listed is probably (in my opinion) the Chiang-Ku Temporal Wizard. I do think that this group could get overwhelmed easily, and maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce early on some powerful foes who force the group to have to retreat - make it clear they aren't the most powerful thing around. Otherwise, their overconfidence may become their own downfall when such a situation arises.

I'd also like to point out that the right mix of Coalition troops could easily challenge these guys as well. They have mutant animals, 'Borgs, Power Armor, psychics, special forces... basically everything except magic. But the Coalition also has numbers.

[Shark_Force]

not every challenge needs to be a fight.

just include some challenges that require other sorts of problem-solving.

(besides, I don't see anything about those OCCs that says "unable to fight". particularly if the hatchlings are mostly relying on their natural weapons, which will have a lot less burst potential than any technological weapon).

[Tor]

A dragon putting their fist through an SDC human is a good way to get some vengeful vagabonds planting a few dozen grenades in its nest while it slumbers.

[masslegion]

A challenge for the group could be a similarly-composed group of people/beings, that way each member of the group has an appropriate challenge.

Cyber Knight master psionic, Psi-druid: Interesting opponents could be any of the other psi-classes, such as Mind-Melter, Burster, Zapper, Psi-Slinger, Psi-Warrior, Mind Bleeder. Alternatively, psi-stalkers and dog boys could be appropriate, too. For the Cyber Knight, also, some Mercenary classes may be appropriate antagonists.

Malvoren, Crazy: My first thought - Juicers. Juicers and Crazies have a rivalry built right into their O.C.C.'s, and the tech/gun focused Malvoren would have to find creative ways to get past their autododge. Alternatively, any O.C.C. or R.C.C. with autododge could be appropriate.

A Chiang-Ku Dragon Hatchling practicing Temporal Magic: There's a few options here. A Temporal Raider would be a very worthy challenge, especially when you consider they have their own Temporal Wizards and Temporal Warriors to call upon. Sunaj assassins or other Splugorth minions (like T-Men) could be appropriate, too. A smart Shifter would be a great opponent too, especially if he or she used his minions to his full advantage and stayed "behind the scenes." If the dragon uses the "Id Self" spell, then depending on the rolls and how it plays out then he could become his own enemy!

Another RUE Hatchling: Hatchlings in general are roughly "on par" with Full Conversion Borgs and Power Armor, so as a general idea one of them could be a good opponent. The Anti-Monster from South America is another idea too.

Basically though, I agree with everyone else posted above. Don't be too worried if the group walks over enemies, especially in the beginning. It's not as high-power a group as you're fearing - I think the "highest power" character listed is probably (in my opinion) the Chiang-Ku Temporal Wizard. I do think that this group could get overwhelmed easily, and maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce early on some powerful foes who force the group to have to retreat - make it clear they aren't the most powerful thing around. Otherwise, their overconfidence may become their own downfall when such a situation arises.

I'd also like to point out that the right mix of Coalition troops could easily challenge these guys as well. They have mutant animals, 'Borgs, Power Armor, psychics, special forces... basically everything except magic. But the Coalition also has numbers.

Thank you for the great breakdown and the good ideas

[Starmage21]

A challenge for the group could be a similarly-composed group of people/beings, that way each member of the group has an appropriate challenge.

Cyber Knight master psionic, Psi-druid: Interesting opponents could be any of the other psi-classes, such as Mind-Melter, Burster, Zapper, Psi-Slinger, Psi-Warrior, Mind Bleeder. Alternatively, psi-stalkers and dog boys could be appropriate, too. For the Cyber Knight, also, some Mercenary classes may be appropriate antagonists.

Malvoren, Crazy: My first thought - Juicers. Juicers and Crazies have a rivalry built right into their O.C.C.'s, and the tech/gun focused Malvoren would have to find creative ways to get past their autododge. Alternatively, any O.C.C. or R.C.C. with autododge could be appropriate.

A Chiang-Ku Dragon Hatchling practicing Temporal Magic: There's a few options here. A Temporal Raider would be a very worthy challenge, especially when you consider they have their own Temporal Wizards and Temporal Warriors to call upon. Sunaj assassins or other Splugorth minions (like T-Men) could be appropriate, too. A smart Shifter would be a great opponent too, especially if he or she used his minions to his full advantage and stayed "behind the scenes." If the dragon uses the "Id Self" spell, then depending on the rolls and how it plays out then he could become his own enemy!

Another RUE Hatchling: Hatchlings in general are roughly "on par" with Full Conversion Borgs and Power Armor, so as a general idea one of them could be a good opponent. The Anti-Monster from South America is another idea too.

Basically though, I agree with everyone else posted above. Don't be too worried if the group walks over enemies, especially in the beginning. It's not as high-power a group as you're fearing - I think the "highest power" character listed is probably (in my opinion) the Chiang-Ku Temporal Wizard. I do think that this group could get overwhelmed easily, and maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to introduce early on some powerful foes who force the group to have to retreat - make it clear they aren't the most powerful thing around. Otherwise, their overconfidence may become their own downfall when such a situation arises.

I'd also like to point out that the right mix of Coalition troops could easily challenge these guys as well. They have mutant animals, 'Borgs, Power Armor, psychics, special forces... basically everything except magic. But the Coalition also has numbers.

Thank you for the great breakdown and the good ideas

And there is nothing in this game that does not fear a volley of mini-missiles. Now realize that there are bots and PAs and vehicles that can fire volleys of bigger missiles.

Dragons-Hatchlings are chumps that people pretend are a lot more awesome than they are.

[kaid]

Dragon hatchlings are pretty tough not super huge offensive powers but they can take an absurd amount of damage and heal back from it pretty rapidly. Really though they wind up being not that disruptive to a group because they are basically giant kids. Strong in a fight but they are really naive about pretty much everything so the social interaction parts of the game they tend to really take second fiddle to others so having some heavy skills oriented characters in the group winds up being excellent balance for the dragons.

[Alrik Vas]

but then there are others who go into magic OCCs and get tons of TW items and by level you basically have the godling you didn't let them create in the first place.

[Satan Lord of Hell]

Just musing over your situation - perhaps my thoughts will help give you avenues of how to challenge a Chiang-ku via their weaknesses and how to avoid their strengths.

A Chiang-Ku hatchling, if played strictly from the book, has a handful of disadvantages/shortcomings that (in my opinion) make it quite balanced:

1 - no natural teleport or fly ability - while not a true disadvantage since many characters cannot do these things, this is notable for a dragon hatchling.

2 - poor physical prowess - a max of 15 - in my opinion considerable when combined with...

3 - complete lack of physical skills - rather lackluster physical stat base and no physical skills deny the Chiang-Ku from being formidable in close combat. Their innate combat bonuses amount to only +1 melee attack and +1 save vs magic and +2 save vs Horror

4 - overall EXTREMELY poor skill selection - no technical skills, no mechanical skills, no communication skills, and so on...

So overall you end up with a character which, while having a pile of MDC, will be ENTIRELY dependent on their Spells, Psionics, Tattoos, and shape-changing abilities - hardly any skills or raw combat stats. Temporal Wizards get a rather nice starting kit of spells to select, so a smart player can still be as much "trouble" as any magician with good spells.

If I were GMing your group I would make sure I knew which Spells and Psionics the chaing-ku has chosen - this will greatly help me craft suitable challenges (and also see what that players is wanting to be good at so I can also provide satisfying goals for them to accomplish).

[Tor]

Couldn't a Chaing-ku simply morph into a large bird and fly that way? It even expliclty mentions they can become a "raven" (I guess the largest raven may exceed the size of the smallest cat?) Not to mention there is a power tattoo or a spell which can impart the ability.

There is not a COMPLETE lack of physical skills: hand to hand combat is a physical skill and they are basic-default like other dragons. Unlike other dragons though, they can upgrade to Expert or Martial Arts.

Also: the hatchling skill list in RMBp100 does not include Physical as a category, so other dragons can't get it either.

Notably the Chaing-Ku can start with WP skills, the base hatchlings could not select those, which is a HUGE advantage if they arm themselves, particularly if they select paired WP or sharpshooting.

"No technical skills" is also wrong, they start with math and 2 lores, and also get any language or reading skills from a magical OCC if they select one.

[Blue_Lion]

lets see a dragon using paired weapons and sharp shooting. Hopefully no one comes up with a way to give the dragons dual wielded rail guns.

[Tor]

I figure by default most rail-guns are 2-handed but there have been notes on wielding them 1-handed.

NGRp147 mentions the TX-250 Rail Gun can be used by 'other PA' (implying Jagers are PA, love it) bots and borgs with strength of 28.

It also mentions the Jager can use 1 in each hand, per page 57 (where it is oddly called the "TX-250 Maxi-Rail Gun", I think they mixed this up with the VX-180 on page 69) Jagers have a PS 40, so I would consider it an acceptable house rule that anyone who has a robotic PS 40 or higher can dual-wield them.

Bonus because you get the special strike/parry/dodge bonus from the laser target and radar-tracking system. That MIGHT be doubled if you wielded 2 of them. Bit unclear on that.

Extra bonus because it has a range better than most other rail guns its size.

Extra extra bonus due to the explicit single-shot, avoiding arguments about whether or not single-round damage lets you fire single shots that other guns suffer from.

So collectively: with a robotic (and I assume supernatural too) PS or 40, you can dual-snipe from 6000ft with a pair of these and get +2 to strike to compete with boom guns.

[Mechghost]

Sorry Tor, but Dragons can't take WP Paired Weapons - RUE page 327 states "Exclusive to Man at Arm OCCs" and the harp Shooting skill is also exclusive (page 79/80 New West)

[flatline]

Sorry Tor, but Dragons can't take WP Paired Weapons - RUE page 327 states "Exclusive to Man at Arm OCCs" and the harp Shooting skill is also exclusive (page 79/80 New West)

Does CB1 also limit Sharp Shooting to Man at Arms OCCs?

-flatline

[Mechghost]

Sorry Tor, but Dragons can't take WP Paired Weapons - RUE page 327 states "Exclusive to Man at Arm OCCs" and the harp Shooting skill is also exclusive (page 79/80 New West)

Does CB1 also limit Sharp Shooting to Man at Arms OCCs?

-flatline

Its in New West, page 79/80 and yes Sharp Shooting is limited to Man at Arms OCCs, 1 only and costs 2 OCC-related skills, can't use secondaries. And it applies to one WP only, not everything.

[Tor]

CB was before New West introduced a man-at-arms lock for sharpshooting, and I'm not even sure they are the exact same skill or different kinds of sharpshooting.

That said, I forgot that CB still forbid Vagabonds/Dragons/Mind-Melters from getting it. Loads of fun for Bursters or Spellcasters tho.

Paired WP as a skill in Warlords of Russia (p200) was also not restricted in any way, so you can go with that version for Dragons.

Barring that, there's still getting paired WP at higher levels of experience. Chaing-Ku who upgrade to Expert/MA will get universal paired WP from their HtH at level 7, unlike the main book hatchlings locked at Basic which does not provide it.

Selecting a man-at-arms OCCs also may be an option via that 5% "other forms of magic or other areas of knowledge" option at the end. The restriction to only getting language/reading skills is only in the context of magic OCCs so other OCCs may not be limited that way.

[Mechghost]

Paired WP as a skill in Warlords of Russia (p200) was also not restricted in any way, so you can go with that version for Dragons.

The Wp in WoR doesn't mention using 2 pistols (and by the wording it seems to be melee only), where as in the RUE they state you can and give the penalties for shooting 2 pistols(and by the wording it seems to be melee only). And RUE was printed after WoR so the updated skill list should the one used, unless you're not using RUE of course, IMHO

[Tor]

Although modern weapons are not explicitly mentioned under the skill, there is no category split to that effect, it's all collected together in this order after:
*paired weapons
*shield
*siege weapons
*trick shooting
*whip

So with shooting before whipping we have no distinctive ancient/modern division, so for limits we would have to look in the skill itself.

It only says 'weapons are limited to one-handed types' so that would leave out rifles. Although you can select 'fire a 2 handed weapon 1-handed without penalty' under trick shooting so getting that might allow for twin rifle shooting, dunno.

So if you want to enact the RUE nerf and make it warrior-exclusive and penalties for guns, sure. I like to think of it as separate things that share a name, like the original CWC HtHcommando versus the RUE version of HtH commando. But I don't want to start that all over again

Anyway, to get back to the dragons... anyone have an idea about whether the paired WP supplied at 7 by expert/MA is melee-locked or not? Or does it allow you to throw twin ninja stars,or fire twin pistols?

[Cedric Caleb]

I may be a little late in posting on this topic but there are a couple other options that seem to come to mind that can supply a means to help curb the group's over balance without necessarily being too great a challenge; many of them have been around for some time. Perhaps the most significant has been mentioned in regard to the Coalition.

You have a lot of major psionic and magic characters in the party so a Seek & Destroy Dog Pack Squad could be quite a disruption to your party's ability to fight with little more than a deep knife wound. Just a reminder, but a devoted pack would have already resolved that they will be giving their lives for the cause of their human masters. Wounding a bunch of magic critters for their psi-stalker leader to instantly feast their p.p.e. to zero could be devastating to their ability to fight something else in under 24 to 48 hours, even if the Dog Pack is totally slaughtered. Should they later run into a Mind Bleeder, a Sea Inquisitor, or even an fresh master mage, they could literally be finding themselves having to rely purely on their weapons and hand range combat to get out of some sticky situations.

Just some food for thought.

[Library Ogre]

<snip>

I'd also like to point out that the right mix of Coalition troops could easily challenge these guys as well. They have mutant animals, 'Borgs, Power Armor, psychics, special forces... basically everything except magic. But the Coalition also has numbers.

Looking at Glistam's analysis, while a mix of CS troops is a good idea, you might go the other direction... a Temporal Raider and his "gang"... some temporal warriors and wizards (long-servitude Temporal Warriors get autododge), maybe some sort of Beastmaster-type OCC to give the druid a chance to shine. They could use magically controlled minions as cannon fodder, and have a fair amount of options (maybe even some Splugorth Bio-wizardry that the Raider acquired to beef up certain people).

You might go with a situation that involves both the CS and the Temporal stuff. Maybe something out on the edge of Coalition territory, with the CS threatening from one side, the Raider and his gang from the other, and a town in the middle who want to remain somewhat independent, but have some resource the other wants...

[Glistam]

<snip>

I'd also like to point out that the right mix of Coalition troops could easily challenge these guys as well. They have mutant animals, 'Borgs, Power Armor, psychics, special forces... basically everything except magic. But the Coalition also has numbers.

Looking at Glistam's analysis, while a mix of CS troops is a good idea, you might go the other direction... a Temporal Raider and his "gang"... some temporal warriors and wizards (long-servitude Temporal Warriors get autododge), maybe some sort of Beastmaster-type OCC to give the druid a chance to shine. They could use magically controlled minions as cannon fodder, and have a fair amount of options (maybe even some Splugorth Bio-wizardry that the Raider acquired to beef up certain people).

You might go with a situation that involves both the CS and the Temporal stuff. Maybe something out on the edge of Coalition territory, with the CS threatening from one side, the Raider and his gang from the other, and a town in the middle who want to remain somewhat independent, but have some resource the other wants...

Also a great idea. The temporal classes get the opportunity to ride exotic mounts - Rifts: Russia has a few neat ones, and I particularly like the Ursan Forest Steed.

[Kagashi]

not every challenge needs to be a fight.

just include some challenges that require other sorts of problem-solving.

(besides, I don't see anything about those OCCs that says "unable to fight". particularly if the hatchlings are mostly relying on their natural weapons, which will have a lot less burst potential than any technological weapon).

^This.

With a Chang Ku (whom likely is of a good alignment) and a CK running around (again, likely a good alignment and lives by a code), throw some morality issues at them. Might be at odds with some of the other party members (cant tell for sure without know the actual alignments).

You could do something like this:

The party comes across a village composed of two different races. The first race is obviously running the town (possesses higher technology, wields magic, obviously more developed as a society), and the second race's status is quite obviously being used as slaves (clearly more primitive, lacks modern skills, ignorant, naive, etc...), building a major project in the center of town which appears to be an unfinished pyramid. The good aligned members would likely feel this is an injustice. Further compounded by the little boy with the dirty face cleaned only by trails of tears down his cheeks whom explains to the group how the first race had arrived in the town and took over from the second race whom were really the first to establish the village. He says many of his kind have died under their rule and have been there as long as he can remember. Seems at first this might be something the CK might want to take interest in. (I'm assuming this is the leader of the group since he was listed first and the natural role CKs seem to take in groups)

However, upon inquiry of others, the group will find that the first race isn't as slave driving as it might seem. The truth of the situation is, the first race came upon the village whom was stricken by a rare disease. The first race had the technology/magic to cure the disease and the second race and their village was going to be wiped out due to their ignorance as to what was going on. They offered to the village town elders to not only initially cure the disease that struck the town, but to provide an eventual means to prevent the disease from spreading as well as to provide power and infrastructure to the town, however the first race believes that nothing should be given away for free and the second race needs to contribute to the project. The town elder agreed that his people will work under the direction of the first race's engineers to not only educate themselves, but to be a part of the solution. That was 10 years ago.

Where it went wrong is, this project has been going on for over 10 years now, and there have been lately an increasing number of cases of abuse from the first race upon the second. For example, an engineer will use the village people to build a walkway to his house, nothing to do with the pyramid project. Or engineers seemingly receive free goods and services from the villagers (originally out of thanks) but it is now expected from the first race. Some projects have been increasingly dangerous which have actually gotten a few villagers killed and hurt.

To further compound the issue, the original elder of the village that agreed to the contract has since passed away and the new elder found he does not have the same say as the original elder. He is elder in name only, and the workers of the village will listen only the first race's engineers out of fear or reprisal in the form of unwanted or unneeded labor which has become increasingly dangerous to preform.

Perhaps during the pyramid project, a rare ore was uncovered and coveted by the first race. You could use this if you really wanted to make some sort of material justification to their greed, but Id rather just keep it at them losing their focus and moral way to eventual abuse of power over the years.

Does the party engage with the more technologically advanced, magic using first race?
Do they try to liberate the second race? (What if if they did, the disease will come back without the knowledge of the first race? Kinda like how the Jaffa couldnt live without Go'uld larva in Stargate SG1.)
Do they recognize the legality of the contract which lead to the situation?
Do both societies simply need a reminder as to what the original purpose was? How is the first race going to take that? The second?
Is this even in the party's lane to consider intervention?

This situation can go in any direction really, and most of those directions have nothing to do with rolling dice.

[Kagashi]

Just musing over your situation - perhaps my thoughts will help give you avenues of how to challenge a Chiang-ku via their weaknesses and how to avoid their strengths.

A Chiang-Ku hatchling, if played strictly from the book, has a handful of disadvantages/shortcomings that (in my opinion) make it quite balanced:

1 - no natural teleport or fly ability - while not a true disadvantage since many characters cannot do these things, this is notable for a dragon hatchling.

2 - poor physical prowess - a max of 15 - in my opinion considerable when combined with...

3 - complete lack of physical skills - rather lackluster physical stat base and no physical skills deny the Chiang-Ku from being formidable in close combat. Their innate combat bonuses amount to only +1 melee attack and +1 save vs magic and +2 save vs Horror

4 - overall EXTREMELY poor skill selection - no technical skills, no mechanical skills, no communication skills, and so on...

So overall you end up with a character which, while having a pile of MDC, will be ENTIRELY dependent on their Spells, Psionics, Tattoos, and shape-changing abilities - hardly any skills or raw combat stats. Temporal Wizards get a rather nice starting kit of spells to select, so a smart player can still be as much "trouble" as any magician with good spells.

If I were GMing your group I would make sure I knew which Spells and Psionics the chaing-ku has chosen - this will greatly help me craft suitable challenges (and also see what that players is wanting to be good at so I can also provide satisfying goals for them to accomplish).

Agreed. I played a Chaing Ku TW once and she was by far one of the least powerful, most restrictive characters in the group (granted it was a Phase World setting). Despite having the stigma of being a "dragon hatchling", she lagged behind severely from the other members of the group in terms of power and versatility. Even in dragon form, she was one of the smallest beings. Her natural MDC was lower on average than others (only had one or two SDC guys even in the group).

She was useful in being able to shapeshift into any race indefinitely though. Plus she was the source of new tattoos for the T Man in the group. Very much only a support character and hardly the "tank" hatchlings are apparently supposed to be in the mind of the modern Rifts player.

Also, dont forget number 5: No breath weapon.

Because of no flight/teleport, no wings, and no breath weapon, Chaing Ku cannot even benefit from Hand to Hand: Dragon. Although you might want to consider Hand to Hand: Four Legged from After the Bomb while in dragon form and H2H: Basic in human form (which my character was in 95% of the time).

[Tor]

I was browsing through Mercs today and remembered something I came across seeing this thread again.

Under the 'DemonBusters' merc group there is a great horned dragon hatchling named Delgardo.

There is a scenario suggestions where this groups has a crossover with Reid's Rangers, and Delgardo wants to have conversations with Carlotta the White (an Ice Dragon hatchling, later changed to something else in VKrevised, I think Frost Dragon hatchling or something from RUE) about what it's like to be with humans, but this is supposed to make Raoul jealous. I'm not sure how Carlotta is supposed to act, but this serves as an example that super-nice hatchlings like Delgardo can at least somewhat overcome the instinct of dragons to avoid other dragons (as does Freehold near Tolkeen with its various co-operative dragons, or the Nog Henge druids in England) and want to associate.