cosmo knights what can fight them and win

[Nekira Sudacne]

Technically, Cosmo Knights are not supernatural beings, so it could be read that cosmo knights normal damage reduction applys.

[Tor]

Their description explicitly says they are supernatural beings. The only Phase World fuzziness on supernatural status I know of is Seljuk and Fallen Knights.

[Q99]

Speaking of Seljuk, it strikes me it can be made even harder if we're not talking a default knight. A Seljuk takes half-damage from MDC magic energy attacks, plus gets +3 save vs magic in general, making it harder for magic types. Or a Quickflex Cosmo Knight, who'd have Auto-dodge. There's probably other species who'd make particularly dangerous Cosmo-Knights, but that's who comes to mind now.

And just for CK options, there's potential ways to specialize them too. Like a Knight who decided to invest, say, 400 PPE into the Forcefield power of their weapon, giving a 4000 MDC forcefield they can put up twice an hour with a single action. You can be talking a serious brick there, way tougher than a normal Cosmo Knight, and while the forcefield may not come with the normal energy weapon bonus, with numbers like that, and the fact it can be put up after taking a buncha hits directly so one can regen while the shields up, it doesn't really need 'em.

[eliakon]

Speaking of Seljuk, it strikes me it can be made even harder if we're not talking a default knight. A Seljuk takes half-damage from MDC magic energy attacks, plus gets +3 save vs magic in general, making it harder for magic types. Or a Quickflex Cosmo Knight, who'd have Auto-dodge. There's probably other species who'd make particularly dangerous Cosmo-Knights, but that's who comes to mind now.

I don't want to derail this by starting the whole flammey "Do Cosmo Knights keep racial powers, and if so which ones" side track so lets just put a pin in this thought (or start a separate thread)

And just for CK options, there's potential ways to specialize them too. Like a Knight who decided to invest, say, 400 PPE into the Forcefield power of their weapon, giving a 4000 MDC forcefield they can put up twice an hour with a single action. You can be talking a serious brick there, way tougher than a normal Cosmo Knight, and while the forcefield may not come with the normal energy weapon bonus, with numbers like that, and the fact it can be put up after taking a buncha hits directly so one can regen while the shields up, it doesn't really need 'em.

Again my go to is Magic, Psionics and Super Powers....
My preference is Magic since that is the one that I know the best. There are tons of spells that can be used to deal with a Cosmo Knight, some of which would even ignore the ff.

As long as you don't try to do this like some MMORPG where its all DPS vs Regen....in that case well yah your going to be in a world of hurt. But if you use your head and try to out smart them.....

[Q99]

I don't want to derail this by starting the whole flammey "Do Cosmo Knights keep racial powers, and if so which ones" side track so lets just put a pin in this thought (or start a separate thread)

Fair enough.

Again my go to is Magic, Psionics and Super Powers....
My preference is Magic since that is the one that I know the best. There are tons of spells that can be used to deal with a Cosmo Knight, some of which would even ignore the ff.

As long as you don't try to do this like some MMORPG where its all DPS vs Regen....in that case well yah your going to be in a world of hurt. But if you use your head and try to out smart them.....

Yea, spellcastin's the best way, though I'd think things like a CK's speed, firepower, and toughness means you gotta have a pretty tough caster to pull it off before a cosmic hammer interrupts things.

[eliakon]

Again my go to is Magic, Psionics and Super Powers....
My preference is Magic since that is the one that I know the best. There are tons of spells that can be used to deal with a Cosmo Knight, some of which would even ignore the ff.

As long as you don't try to do this like some MMORPG where its all DPS vs Regen....in that case well yah your going to be in a world of hurt. But if you use your head and try to out smart them.....

Yea, spellcastin's the best way, though I'd think things like a CK's speed, firepower, and toughness means you gotta have a pretty tough caster to pull it off before a cosmic hammer interrupts things.

First spell you want is Impervious to Energy. Now their dreaded cosmic blasts wont damage you so they have to close to melee range (or at least missile weapon range)
Next make sure you have two or three layered defensive spells (My go to combination is Invincible Armor, Multiple Images, Chromatic Protection, Invulnerability, and if your GM lets you stack armor spells Armor Bizarre.
Then go to town with the usual stuff. Whips of Confusion, Magic Net, Trance, Blinding Flash, Wind Rush, Stumble, Flareburst, Cosmic Ray, Mental Blast, Time Slip, Curse (Any but especially luck, phobia, neurosis), Temporary Insanity, Paralysis, Death, Horrific Illusion.....
There are literally hundreds of useful spells for this depending on what books your particular game uses in it.

Especially if you have any say in the matter don't fight them one on one. Fight them five on one, or six on one. This is pure murder if you have mages since for each action the knight gets each mage gets one....you can quickly burn their actions to nothing, and still keep a steady stream of 'save or die' spells going

[Q99]

First spell you want is Impervious to Energy. Now their dreaded cosmic blasts wont damage you so they have to close to melee range (or at least missile weapon range)
Next make sure you have two or three layered defensive spells (My go to combination is Invincible Armor, Multiple Images, Chromatic Protection, Invulnerability, and if your GM lets you stack armor spells Armor Bizarre.

Sure, but how much preparation are we allowing? That's 2 whole combat rounds right there.

On weapons, if they have one the Cosmo Knight's weapon is throwable, Mjolnir style, so they can still use their flight capabilities to their advantage and inflict damage (up to 3d4x10 + strength) while staying out of the range of closer ranged spells.

At 1000ft range, or even just a few hundred feet out, that eliminates Magic Net and most of the curse spells as options I believe.

Then go to town with the usual stuff. Whips of Confusion, Magic Net, Trance, Blinding Flash, Wind Rush, Stumble, Flareburst, Cosmic Ray, Mental Blast, Time Slip, Curse (Any but especially luck, phobia, neurosis), Temporary Insanity, Paralysis, Death, Horrific Illusion.....
There are literally hundreds of useful spells for this depending on what books your particular game uses in it.

All the while the mage has to put up with so impressive assaults in return, since only two per round there. Which ones would you say would be best for actually dropping a Knight? How many of them have good range, too?

Especially if you have any say in the matter don't fight them one on one. Fight them five on one, or six on one.

Isn't the question largely about one-on-one?

I mean, in return, 5 knights can handle just about any mage ^^ I don't think anyone disagrees that a whole strong adventuring party can do the job.

[Tor]

I think the best thing with Cosmo-Knights is to make use of the rules in the N&SS book on how to catch a thrown weapon. Something like after a successful parry you have to roll to strike (to grab) at 14.

I imagine that you would have to do an unarmed parry so that your hand is free to do that though... or at least there should be some penalty to doing a 1-handed grab if the default is assumed to be 2-hand, or a bonus to using both hands to try and do the grab if the default is 1.

This depends on how the GM judges Cosmo-weapons to return though. If it just teleports back then force isn't enough and you need some kind of magical anti-teleport thing to stop the weapon. If the weapon pulls back then you need to figure out how strong it was.

Going based on the pulling assumption, I would probably just judge the weapon by the supernatural PS table. I'm going to say by a power punch because those are the only numbers that fit. To compensate for that I'll go on the high side.

1D4x10 means PS 35, 1D6x10 means PS 40, 2D4x10 means PS 50. So whoever is trying to keep ahold of the weapon and prevent it from returning has to be that strong, otherwise they can't stop it. Of course you could have people combine gribs, but then, depends on the size of the weapon how many hands could hold on at the same time.

Course there is also the issue of weight. Even if you can't stop the weapon you should be able to grab ahold and hitch a ride back to the Cosmo-Knight as it returns to his hand. I don't know how much PS should be required for that, just for easy math, maybe 1/5 the above amounts? 7/8/10 ? Should be feasible to most, particularly in space where you are weightless and only have to combat your own inertia.

Holding it down should probably also be an issue of weight. In that case maybe look at the lifting ability of the equivalent supernatural PS and say the person must exceed that? So 3500 pounds for the average weapon? That seems like a bit much though... maybe go by carrying capacity? 1750 might make it possible for some heavy aliens to prevent this.

Of course if you had something like gravity boots then you could tether to a metal ground (like a ship) and add its weight.

[Q99]

Good news is it's not teleport, there *are* times when weapons have been stolen, but the text says it 'automatically flies back to it's owner,' (not just where it's thrown, but towards the owner) so I wouldn't think any catch roll is needed for the Knight.

[eliakon]

First spell you want is Impervious to Energy. Now their dreaded cosmic blasts wont damage you so they have to close to melee range (or at least missile weapon range)
Next make sure you have two or three layered defensive spells (My go to combination is Invincible Armor, Multiple Images, Chromatic Protection, Invulnerability, and if your GM lets you stack armor spells Armor Bizarre.

Sure, but how much preparation are we allowing? That's 2 whole combat rounds right there.

Only if you have like 3 APM....if you have 5 or 6 you could get most of those up in one round

On weapons, if they have one the Cosmo Knight's weapon is throwable, Mjolnir style, so they can still use their flight capabilities to their advantage and inflict damage (up to 3d4x10 + strength) while staying out of the range of closer ranged spells.

That is why I said that whole bit about 'if they have a physical weapon' And the weapon only does 1d4x10, to get 1d6x10 or 2d4x10 (not +2d4x10 2d4x10 TOTAL btw) they have to spend MDC. And it only does weapon damage not H2H damage when thrown....

If they do then I would suggest using spells that enhance your dodge (and something to give you autododge...)

At 1000ft range, or even just a few hundred feet out, that eliminates Magic Net and most of the curse spells as options I believe.

Yes the number of spells that have long ranges is limited. Though amusingly one of the great ones (Electromagnetic attack) is kenetic in damage, and has a range even longer than the CKs thrown weapons

Then go to town with the usual stuff. Whips of Confusion, Magic Net, Trance, Blinding Flash, Wind Rush, Stumble, Flareburst, Cosmic Ray, Mental Blast, Time Slip, Curse (Any but especially luck, phobia, neurosis), Temporary Insanity, Paralysis, Death, Horrific Illusion.....
There are literally hundreds of useful spells for this depending on what books your particular game uses in it.

All the while the mage has to put up with so impressive assaults in return, since only two per round there. Which ones would you say would be best for actually dropping a Knight? How many of them have good range, too?

You get more than two spells per round. RUE has the higher 'fast cast' rules.
And the other question is if the knight would KNOW to stay away until you open up. As for what are the best?
Time Slip + Carpet of Adhesion (Or magic net if your GM allows it) + Cloud of Slumber + is a really REALLY nasty combination......

Especially if you have any say in the matter don't fight them one on one. Fight them five on one, or six on one.

Isn't the question largely about one-on-one?

I mean, in return, 5 knights can handle just about any mage ^^ I don't think anyone disagrees that a whole strong adventuring party can do the job.

[/quote]
Ahhh but Cosmokinghts can rarely summon help for themselves......

[Q99]

You get more than two spells per round. RUE has the higher 'fast cast' rules.

Ah, I still only have the old book.

And the other question is if the knight would KNOW to stay away until you open up.

How does the mage know to do it or any of the preparation spells until the Cosmo-Knight opens up?

I'm assuming both know who they're fighting, how does the mage know what to do against a CK?

Also, most Cosmo-Knights should know about magic users in general. Once someone starts casting, that's a dead giveaway.

[Tor]

Good news is it's not teleport, there *are* times when weapons have been stolen, but the text says it 'automatically flies back to it's owner,' (not just where it's thrown, but towards the owner) so I wouldn't think any catch roll is needed for the Knight.

Ah I hadn't remembered the 'flies' part, wasn't presently looking at the book. That does imply movement through space rather than past it.

And the other question is if the knight would KNOW to stay away until you open up.

How does the mage know to do it or any of the preparation spells until the Cosmo-Knight opens up?

A mage might not know right away, but a lot of things have enough MDC to survive an energy blast or two long enough to realize they should cast ItE.

[say652]

Gravity guns work great. Phase weapons of course. Traps and fragment explosives.

Telekinesis, Biomanipulation, Speed of the snail, lifedrain, Agony, Horrific illusion.
Lots of spells and psi powers work well on a ck.

On Rifts Earth.
5 or 6 SAMAS should do the trick. A Glitterboy is a great one on one.

[Tor]

They're fine if the Cosmo-Knight is stupid and just keeps attacking. A smart one will utilize his speed to get out of range and regenerate.

SAMAS simply cannot match up. At first level a Cosmo-Knight's blasts already can fire further than the SAMAS' rail guns, and Cosmo-Knights can fly faster, so they can maintain that distance. The only threat is them all firing 2-mini-missile volleys at him at the start.

Since plasma won't work, assuming max damage from armor piercing that is 40x2=80 per SAMAS, so only 480 damage from all 6 SAMAS. That still leaves 20 MDC in his cosmic armor, which will have begun regenerating after the first hit. He just flies off and regenerates his armor as the SAMAS futilly chase him, overheating their engines.

The Glitter Boy is more of a credible threat, his 11 000 feet beats the 4 400 feet of the cosmic blasts easy. A 6600 foot difference. Even with the cosmic weapon range upgrade, that's only 8 800 feet. However the Mach 1 speed of even a 1st level knight allows them to cover 1,116.4 feet/second. So a basic knight (slowest flight speed, no weapon enhance for range) can move from within their firing range to outside of the Boom Gun's within 6 seconds, less than half a melee round. A cosmo-knight with weapon-doubling range would only need 2 seconds.

The speed difference means the Cosmo-Knight can fly in, throw off a shot (taking, perhaps 5 shots coming in and out) and then fly back out of range, allowing their armor to regenerate to full while the GB's damage remains.

Unless the GB had something like a Naruni forcefield or one of those nifty RUE-TW Mend the Broken tricks to restore their own damage capacity, they will just get whittled down by the Cosmo-Knight even if the Knight has fewer attacks per melee and 1/3 the damage.

You'd need higher numbers of either PA, enough to guarantee that the Knight can't enter range and launch an attack and leave without dying. If they escape alive, they'll be back in full strength within minutes.

[eliakon]

Fly at supersonic speeds does not mean though that you can dodge fire.

Especially since if they are flying at supersonic speeds they are firing wild. I don't really see most knights doing that....

This also btw requires one to assume that the power is free. As it is listed under their "superluminal flight' it would appear that you have to turn into energy to fly that fast. And I don't think you can attack in that energy from.

Just because the Knight in the Rifter could fly doesn't mean its a canon power...

[Tor]

I'm not talking about the Cosmo-Knight flying at Mach speeds while firing, but rather, before and after it, as they control the combat range.

They would be vulnerable to missiles when they pause mid-air to launch their blasts. When I talk about them outflying LRMs I mean when they are not engaged in combat, when they fly out of range of other weapons and are just healing, in which case they could fly max speed while healing.

The power to fly non-FTL seems free to me. Their mach flight speed within atmospheres is a secondary ability separate (even though listed under the heading of) their superluminal (meaning faster-than-light) power which they can activate once they've escaped an atmosphere.

I didn't bring up the Rifter, that's not the basis of this.

It would definitely be more confusing if they didn't sandwhich it under ability 2, though.

Some requirements are listed:
1) they have to be outside an atmosphere
2) it requires 10 minutes of meditation ("during this time the cosmo-knight's FTL powers become charged up")
3) costs PPE/MDC

These are all in the context of "transport themselves at FTL speeds".

The final sentence's statement is clearly not limited by these 3 requirements because it is "in an atmosphere", which violates requirement 1, so I similarly think it ignores requirements 2/3.

That said: I would be way less scared of Cosmo-Knight if they did require the PPE/MDC/10min to do their Mach-Speed flights, and I think that would be a great house-rule.

It would explain why we would see Cosmo-Knight standing around on ground when in full armor (like on page 98 of phase world, a trio of them). I could understand a cosmo-knight walking on ground as part of a disguise when not armored, but when in full armor you are clearly not disguising who you are, so you might as well fly, so why Centaur/spike-mallet/4-arms are standing like that...

Actually it looks like they might be on an asteroid, which would not have an atmosphere, so they might not be able to use their mach flight. We're only told they can mach-fly in atmospheres, not in space (though prob a common GM house rule, to allow both, much like Demon Knights' flight only being out-of-atmosphere)

[Q99]

Another thing about speed is they can use it to go close-in if they want, and a CK will have a major edge on most power armors at that range one-on-one.

A knight with a good weapon-forcefield will simply out-attrition a Glitterboy too.

[eliakon]

That said: I would be way less scared of Cosmo-Knight if they did require the PPE/MDC/10min to do their Mach-Speed flights, and I think that would be a great house-rule.

I don't think its a house rule
I think that letting CKs fly with OUT doing this is the unofficial non-RAW house rule.

It would explain why we would see Cosmo-Knight standing around on ground when in full armor (like on page 98 of phase world, a trio of them). I could understand a cosmo-knight walking on ground as part of a disguise when not armored, but when in full armor you are clearly not disguising who you are, so you might as well fly, so why Centaur/spike-mallet/4-arms are standing like that...

Actually it looks like they might be on an asteroid, which would not have an atmosphere, so they might not be able to use their mach flight. We're only told they can mach-fly in atmospheres, not in space (though prob a common GM house rule, to allow both, much like Demon Knights' flight only being out-of-atmosphere)

Yep lots of GMs make house rules for stuff that they don't even think about, or don't even realize is a house rule until its pointed out that the rules don't really say what they thought it did.

[Tor]

Regardless of whatever it is we puzzle out on the other thread: since there is no duration for this, assuming the Cosmo-Knight gets in 10min meditation and pays the MDC/PPE, he could just stay in flight constantly and never have to worry about it after that. There being a cost associated with it is only really an impediment when you have a distance limit like '1 light year per level'. If you applied that to the duration you could fly at Mach... that'd probably last you your entire life.

[Nightmask]

That said: I would be way less scared of Cosmo-Knight if they did require the PPE/MDC/10min to do their Mach-Speed flights, and I think that would be a great house-rule.

I don't think its a house rule
I think that letting CKs fly with OUT doing this is the unofficial non-RAW house rule.

Yes, it would be a house rule if you required a Cosmo-Knight to spend anything in order to fly. The only time he has to expend anything is when he's going for FTL flight not his normal flight.

[eliakon]

Regardless of whatever it is we puzzle out on the other thread: since there is no duration for this, assuming the Cosmo-Knight gets in 10min meditation and pays the MDC/PPE, he could just stay in flight constantly and never have to worry about it after that. There being a cost associated with it is only really an impediment when you have a distance limit like '1 light year per level'. If you applied that to the duration you could fly at Mach... that'd probably last you your entire life.

Easy. The duration is "until you come out of energy form"

[Tor]

Which is when? Why would they ever want to do that?

Being "a being of pure cosmic energy" has no stated limits to it.

Their bodies are already "pure batteries of cosmic energy", wouldn't a 'pure' battery mean the battery itself is composed of cosmic energy too?

The idea of changing to pure energy is only mentioned as happening outside an atmosphere, there's no indication this is what happens in inside-atmosphere flight.

[eliakon]

Spoiler:

Which is when?

My answer would be 'when you arrive at your destination and want to do something

Why would they ever want to do that?

Because they don't have APS: Cosmic Energy....so they can turn into energy, and fly (straight line) from point to point. But they cant do anything else. This is not some APS, its more like the Invid 'energy flight' in Shadow Chronicles

Being "a being of pure cosmic energy" has no stated limits to it.

It doesn't have anything about it that suggests that you can do anything either.

Their bodies are already "pure batteries of cosmic energy", wouldn't a 'pure' battery mean the battery itself is composed of cosmic energy too?

Uhhh and your point is?

The idea of changing to pure energy is only mentioned as happening outside an atmosphere, there's no indication this is what happens in inside-atmosphere flight.

That is why I said it seems to be important that this is added on. To me its like To fly FTL you do this.....if you do this in an atmosphere instead you get this..

However, I think that this is derailing the thread and should be pursued in the thread dedicated to it rather than continuing to hijack this one.

[Jerell]

Interestingly enough, I can not find anywhere in the FTL section that says a CK does, or has the ability to come out of the energy form. Let alone what can or can not be done while in that form.

As a GM, I would rule they fly at will in atmosphere at the Mach 1 per level. They can use the FTL cosmic energy travel out of atmosphere. That's what seems reasonable, and what the writing suggest to me...

As to fighting CKs, I've always thought the Demon Knight was a good choice.

[Q99]

Interestingly enough, I can not find anywhere in the FTL section that says a CK does, or has the ability to come out of the energy form. Let alone what can or can not be done while in that form.

I kinda assume it's basically point-to-point. You convert to energy, you're immediately zooming off, and when you arrive, you're physical again. And you can change course midway, if desired.

Nothing really fights FTL, does it? There's no real circumstance to require doing much else.



There's no specifically says they come out, but activate-able abilities normally specific if they can't be turned off prematurely, rather than if they can, and the fact that it's per-use indicates it's not a permanent transformation. Imprecise language, again, but not specifying it can end is I think a reasonable thing to leave out, as other bits imply it.

[Tor]

I'd say it is strongly implied that they come out of energy form after having travelled the stated number of light years.

The time it took to do that was described in a FAQ somewhere.

[Jerell]

Q99 and Tor (and Nightmask while I'm at it), on your points, I am in agreement with you guys. The thread however seemed to be 'rules-lawyering' it, so I just went with it to see what the strict RAW got us.

[Tor]

Yeah, I guess without explicitly knowing what happens after going the light-year-per-level (and even then it says "can" so they may be able to jump shorter distances) for all we know the conversion to pure cosmic energy is a permanent one and they can never physically interact with the world against except as a Force Ghost or something.

I think of it more like the duration ended on your 4D transformation spell though.

I think you can reverse engineer a "12 minutes per level" duration on this power, regardless of how far you opt to go in that time, since that's how long it will take to travel the maximum distance based on the speed given in the Rifter errata.

[Borast]

The new Flying Glitterboy from Triax.... For the win.

Let see a cosmo knight survive a few boom gun hits to his chest

(Presuming the usual 3D6x10 damage and 11,000 ft range.) As long as the CK is 6th level or lower. Once above that, he can match (or exceed) the boom gun's damage, and out-range it too! (If they take the energy blast power for their weapon.)

[Borast]

Incidentally, a CK can simply stand back and chuck their weapon at the MK from a 1000 feet away or further if it has the option.

There is no need for him to get close OR use a different weapon.

Not all CKs have such a weapon, it is an option. Most do, but even then, the Mystic Knight can still hit them.

Yeah, but you ever heard of a CK not making one?

Yes...
I have created more than one CK with no weapon.

[Q99]

The new Flying Glitterboy from Triax.... For the win.

Let see a cosmo knight survive a few boom gun hits to his chest

(Presuming the usual 3D6x10 damage and 11,000 ft range.) As long as the CK is 6th level or lower. Once above that, he can match (or exceed) the boom gun's damage, and out-range it too! (If they take the energy blast power for their weapon.)

Even at low level, a CK weapon with a high defense option can just out-attrition the flying GB, easy. You can have thousands of MDC to eat through at level 1, and even a fairly low-level forcefield with just a few hundred can still extend life considerably since it can be activating twice in the combat. You take hits, put up the force field, fight with it for a bit while you regen, once it's down, take a few more hits, raise it again, have time to heal again.

CKs are nasty if attrition-optimized.

[eliakon]

What usually gets most CKs in games I have been in (as a player or a GM) is the code of honor.
Its really hard to live up to it, and it makes it easy to predict how a CK will react to a given situation. This makes it fairly easy to set traps, or to force them to act in predictable ways.

[Q99]

A lot of their restrictions can be bypassed when dealing with baddies, though. They can break corrupt law, lie to evildoers, and such.

[eliakon]

A lot of their restrictions can be bypassed when dealing with baddies, though. They can break corrupt law, lie to evildoers, and such.

They still cant put innocents at risk. They still cant break non-corrupt laws (Even if a bad guy is abusing that law for their own ends). If the lawfully elected leader of a government is evil then the innocent police who will protect him need to be protected unless they are evil.....
There are all sorts of nasty things you can do to make a CKs life difficult that don't involve "how many d6 of damage to you do?"

[Q99]

Nazca Rune Warrior are a potential big threat, if they can manage to get in range.

They have no cap on how much PPE they can put into one of their magic attacks. At 1d6 MD per PPE, and potentially hundreds of PPE, they can dish a lot of damage if they're willing to zero themselves in one go.

They still cant put innocents at risk. They still cant break non-corrupt laws (Even if a bad guy is abusing that law for their own ends). If the lawfully elected leader of a government is evil then the innocent police who will protect him need to be protected unless they are evil.....
There are all sorts of nasty things you can do to make a CKs life difficult that don't involve "how many d6 of damage to you do?"

There's nothing that compels them to go into a situation they can't think of a way out of either. They can decide, "I think I'll go harass Splugorth minions until I can find another way to handle that," or "I'll talk to the local non-evil police to see if I can find an alternative solution besides from breaking my rules or walking into a trap."

[Borast]

Q99, you're right... A Nazca might be able to activate one of the line drawings to attack the CK...

[Tor]

Assuming a PE of 20 (average is 10.5, 18.5 after bonus, maybe they buy a physical skill) they would start with 120 PPE. 120d6 will give 420 on average, which a Cosmo-Knight's armor could take, before even considering the force field provided by weapons. Plus Cosmo-Knights are probably going to be pretty capable dodgers.

Interesting thing to wonder: is the Energy Beam fired from the Pattern Staff necessarily magical energy, or just focused PPE energy? The staff itself is a magcial construct but I'm not sure if that applies to what it expels. I'd say yeah but there might be some weasel room for GMs.

Of course a Cosmo-Knight might not know it's powerful enough to be worth dodging (seems like a good time for perception rolls, if size or brightness might indicate) or if he knew about Pattern Staffs (maybe got big hit or his friend did before) he might not know which is weak or strong and a Rune Warrior could have them dodging 1D6 a bunch as a stall tactic.

[Q99]

Assuming a PE of 20 (average is 10.5, 18.5 after bonus, maybe they buy a physical skill) they would start with 120 PPE. 120d6 will give 420 on average, which a Cosmo-Knight's armor could take, before even considering the force field provided by weapons. Plus Cosmo-Knights are probably going to be pretty capable dodgers.

We could be talking about an exceptional Rune Warrior, though. One of the best Rune Warriors one could find. Base PE of... 24 is the best a human can get from rolls, right? Plus class bonus to 30. 170 at first level. 310 at 15th level.

310d6 will be 1085 on average. That'll do the job on a non-force field using knight.

I mean, I'm talking the best Rune Warrior on Earth here to be sure, but just assuming the Inca are sending their very best individual for the job.

And carrying a RAR-C15 rocket auto-rifle to finish the job (an option in their gear), in case that *almost* does the trick...

[Tor]

Why are the Inca sending Rune Warriors to fight Cosmo-Knights anyway? There's a quartet of them serving one of the gods in the Pantheon of the Sun, who rule over the Incas...

If anything I'd think they'd be shooting down Demon Knights, who could just Impervious to Energy against it like they do Cosmo-Knights.

[Q99]

Why are the Inca sending Rune Warriors to fight Cosmo-Knights anyway? There's a quartet of them serving one of the gods in the Pantheon of the Sun, who rule over the Incas...

If anything I'd think they'd be shooting down Demon Knights, who could just Impervious to Energy against it like they do Cosmo-Knights.

Because we're figuring out who could do the job, not who's likely to


Hm, a Cosmo Knight could likely beat a Cosmo Knight... at least 50/50 odds, I figure.

[eliakon]

Why are the Inca sending Rune Warriors to fight Cosmo-Knights anyway? There's a quartet of them serving one of the gods in the Pantheon of the Sun, who rule over the Incas...

If anything I'd think they'd be shooting down Demon Knights, who could just Impervious to Energy against it like they do Cosmo-Knights.

Because we're figuring out who could do the job, not who's likely to


Hm, a Cosmo Knight could likely beat a Cosmo Knight... at least 50/50 odds, I figure.

I would say better than that.....
I mean if one of them wins (EITHER ONE) then a they beat a Cosmo Knight.....

[Q99]

I would say better than that.....
I mean if one of them wins (EITHER ONE) then a they beat a Cosmo Knight.....

Ah, but if they double-KO'd, then it'd just be a draw!

[Tor]

Would be interesting to have a CosmoK v CosmoK fight without either of them falling, since both know the other is good or they'd lose their powers.

Maybe if they were in disguised and did not know the other was a knight? This would prevent the use of a lot of the powers though.

[Borast]

Tor - yes and no... There are circumstances where it could happen, albeit exceedingly rare, but the situation could arise.

As long as neither dies (in most situations), neither would Fall.

[Q99]

Would be interesting to have a CosmoK v CosmoK fight without either of them falling, since both know the other is good or they'd lose their powers.

Maybe if they were in disguised and did not know the other was a knight? This would prevent the use of a lot of the powers though.

They could each have good causes that they view as more vital than the other's and have a legitimate disagreement. Or they could be after something that itself required the defeat of a powerful foe.

I.e. Planetary Guardian says, "I will give you the Cure to the Plague that ravages a hundred worlds, IF you defeat the knight that stands besides you and prove your strength!"

Or each is trying to get a very proud species to declare peace with their rivals, but they will only listen to someone who's proven themselves and fought for them, and will tell if there's fakery. The winner can declare the other side defeated and convince the winning ruler that peace and partnership should be the answer. Which wins doesn't matter, but that one does for real is crucial. Or perhaps they each trust the side they've been hanging with a bit more than the other, even.

[Borast]

IMO, it can be as reflective as a pool of mercury - which happens to be used on mirrors, FYI. Also,
before the modern glass mirror, even bronze was used.

Not that all CK armor is a perfect mirror, of course - but can happen, depending on the individual.

Adios
KLM

True...but the bronze was flat (even if curved), and *highly* polished.

With the odd angles and bends of a humanoid body, there would be little chance of a suit of *armour* reflecting a gaze attack successfully...a mirrored SHIELD on the other hand...
But, depending on the mythos, gaze attacks can not always be reflected. (Hence, looking into a medusa's face/eye with a periscope may make you barf, but it should mean you're not stone-y.)

[Axelmania]

Thread necromancers.

[SpiritInterface]

This one is easy, anything with good magic or TW weapons and decent defenses.

[jaymz]

Godling with flight, magic, and psionics carrying a railgun.

[Axelmania]

Cosmo-Knights can probably destroy railguns before taking significant damage from them.