Atlantean children with demigods...answer with your opinion.

[pblackcrow]

If an Atlantean (which for all tense and purposes according to the mythology are at least partial demigods) and a demigod from Egyptian myth mated (a child of Thoth), could the offspring have magical tattoos and/or inherit the mothers power? How much PPE, hit points, and SDC should he have? And lastly, what should his stats be?

I am not going to be giving him MDC, unless he get 7 tattoos...And I may not even then. That's if he can even have them. And for the record, YES...Thoth (Tehuti, Djehuti, etc) is a God and was one of the former kings of Atlantis that was deified, in my games. Not some alien intelligence.

These questions can't be answered with the book, so please put that aside, and think about the questions for yourself. Please try to give original answers based therein.

[eliakon]

They would not have tattoos (those are not something your born with)
I would say, personally, that they would be a normal version of mortal parent (so roll up an Atlantian as normal). Only full gods pass on special characteristics to their kids.

[pblackcrow]

They would not have tattoos (those are not something your born with)

No, they are not! Read Atlantis again.

[eliakon]

They would not have tattoos (those are not something your born with)

No, they are not! Read Atlantis again.

I have. Several times.
I have yet to see anything stating that Atlantians are born with tattoos. Especially since in Splynn Dimensional Market they talk about how Atlantians get their MoH when they are small children and thus they bond to even master psychics.

Now if someone can provide a page/line citation that says that they are born with them I will be willing to revise this view.

[Library Ogre]

A) "Question" is not a terribly useful topic title.
B) Pretty much a "whatever the GM wants them to have" situation, IMO. Not being familiar with the Child of Thoth, I'd lean towards "A bit better than a standard Atlantean, but still pretty much that."

[drewkitty ~..~]

They would not have tattoos (those are not something your born with)

No, they are not! Read Atlantis again.

I have. Several times.
I have yet to see anything stating that Atlantians are born with tattoos. Especially since in Splynn Dimensional Market they talk about how Atlantians get their MoH when they are small children and thus they bond to even master psychics.

Now if someone can provide a page/line citation that says that they are born with them I will be willing to revise this view.

Marks of Heritage are magic tattoos that are put on every TA child that grows up in a TA community at a very young age.

snip...
I would say, personally, that they would be a normal version of mortal parent (so roll up an Atlantian as normal). Only full gods pass on special characteristics to their kids.

Agrees in the RAW since.

[Crow Splat]

WB 2 page 16 in the section discussing the Marks of Heritage, "The tattoo is placed on an Atlantean child at age five or six."

In the OP's scenario, I would rule that tattoos are dependent upon how the child is raised. If brought up in the tradition of Atlanteans then they would have Marks of Heritage, otherwise, no tattoos.

[Tor]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

[Nekira Sudacne]

If an Atlantean (which for all tense and purposes according to the mythology are at least partial demigods) and a demigod from Egyptian myth mated (Child of Thoth), could the offspring have magical tattoos and/or inherit the mothers power? How much PPE, hit points, and SDC should he have? And lastly, what should his stats be?

I am not going to be giving him MDC, unless he get 7 tattoos...And I may not even then. That's if he can even have them. And for the record, YES...Thoth (Tehuti, Djehuti, etc) is a God and was one of the former kings of Atlantis that was deified, in my games.

Demigods are supernatural in nature and are explictly barred from receiving magic tattoos.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Herakles was a demigod and had children with his wife, according to myth, so there is precident.

[pblackcrow]

They would not have tattoos (those are not something your born with)

No, they are not! Read Atlantis again.

I have. Several times.
I have yet to see anything stating that Atlantians are born with tattoos. Especially since in Splynn Dimensional Market they talk about how Atlantians get their MoH when they are small children and thus they bond to even master psychics.

Now if someone can provide a page/line citation that says that they are born with them I will be willing to revise this view.

I am sorry, I miss read. I thought you said "those are something you're born with." Regardless, can he acquire them?

[pblackcrow]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Sorry, no, none of the demigods were in mythology. So, I am basing my game off of mythology.

And you guys are basing your answers on the "rules" here, and not your own opinion. Don't do that, think out side the rules for a moment.

And the demigod in question's mother was a TA. However, dew to her divine nature she was unable to receive tattoos. Because her regeneration factor pushed the ink out.

[pblackcrow]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Herakles was a demigod and had children with his wife, according to myth, so there is precident.

Apollo has a slue of children with mortals, who had kids, who had kids, who had kids, etc. And heck some still claim to be of his line.

[pblackcrow]

If an Atlantean (which for all tense and purposes according to the mythology are at least partial demigods) and a demigod from Egyptian myth mated (Child of Thoth), could the offspring have magical tattoos and/or inherit the mothers power? How much PPE, hit points, and SDC should he have? And lastly, what should his stats be?

I am not going to be giving him MDC, unless he get 7 tattoos...And I may not even then. That's if he can even have them. And for the record, YES...Thoth (Tehuti, Djehuti, etc) is a God and was one of the former kings of Atlantis that was deified, in my games.

Demigods are supernatural in nature and are explictly barred from receiving magic tattoos.

Correct! But what I am asking is: would the children of a demigod and an Atlantean be able to receive tattoos?

Now, keep in mind that according to mythology Atlanteans were supposedly fathered by Poseidon and a mortal and to keep the race going the sons of Poseidon mated with ship wrecked mortals.

[Library Ogre]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Herakles was a demigod and had children with his wife, according to myth, so there is precident.

Apollo has a slue of children with mortals, who had kids, who had kids, who had kids, etc. And heck some still claim to be of his line.

However, their mothers were never very happy.

[Nekira Sudacne]

If an Atlantean (which for all tense and purposes according to the mythology are at least partial demigods) and a demigod from Egyptian myth mated (Child of Thoth), could the offspring have magical tattoos and/or inherit the mothers power? How much PPE, hit points, and SDC should he have? And lastly, what should his stats be?

I am not going to be giving him MDC, unless he get 7 tattoos...And I may not even then. That's if he can even have them. And for the record, YES...Thoth (Tehuti, Djehuti, etc) is a God and was one of the former kings of Atlantis that was deified, in my games.

Demigods are supernatural in nature and are explictly barred from receiving magic tattoos.

Correct! But what I am asking is: would the children of a demigod and an Atlantean be able to receive tattoos?

Now, keep in mind that according to mythology Atlanteans were supposedly fathered by Poseidon and a mortal and to keep the race going the sons of Poseidon mated with ship wrecked mortals.

The child of a Demigod is not a demigod, and so wouldn't have any special abilities or be supernatural, so while they would have nothing stopping them from getting tattoos, they would be rolled purely as an ordinary atalantian.

[eliakon]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Sorry, no, none of the demigods were in mythology. So, I am basing my game off of mythology.

And you guys are basing your answers on the "rules" here, and not your own opinion. Don't do that, think out side the rules for a moment.

And the demigod in question's mother was a TA. However, dew to her divine nature she was unable to receive tattoos. Because her regeneration factor pushed the ink out.

Well since the question was asked in the forum I sort of assumed you wanted a rules based answer....
However even outside the rules I would not give the character a bonus. I would say that the blood of the divine is so weak in demigods that they do not breed true. The child is a mortal after their mortal parent. Mythologically speaking the Heroes (children of the gods) typically did not have vast powers from their heritage and the children of those heroes were seen as just being mortal men.

Thus this is one place where my personal interpretation of Greek myth and the rules are the same. "Children of Demi-Gods are just mortals with a spiffy family tree"
Get your tats kid....your going to need them

[pblackcrow]

snip...
I would say, personally, that they would be a normal version of mortal parent (so roll up an Atlantian as normal). Only full gods pass on special characteristics to their kids.

Agrees in the RAW since.[/quote]
This I have no problem with doing. Considering everything.

[pblackcrow]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Sorry, no, none of the demigods were in mythology. So, I am basing my game off of mythology.

And you guys are basing your answers on the "rules" here, and not your own opinion. Don't do that, think out side the rules for a moment.

And the demigod in question's mother was a TA. However, dew to her divine nature she was unable to receive tattoos. Because her regeneration factor pushed the ink out.

Well since the question was asked in the forum I sort of assumed you wanted a rules based answer....
However even outside the rules I would not give the character a bonus. I would say that the blood of the divine is so weak in demigods that they do not breed true. The child is a mortal after their mortal parent. Mythologically speaking the Heroes (children of the gods) typically did not have vast powers from their heritage and the children of those heroes were seen as just being mortal men.

Thus this is one place where my personal interpretation of Greek myth and the rules are the same. "Children of Demi-Gods are just mortals with a spiffy family tree"
Get your tats kid....your going to need them

Apollo's great, great, great grand son maintained the power to heal others, I think his son did too. I am not sure if that was because they were all also male lovers. But probably.

Like I said before, I have no problem with that answer.

[pblackcrow]

However, their mothers were never very happy.

TRUE!!!

[say652]

Conversion Book says....NO.
Demigods are Supernatural creatures.
Atlanteans are mortal.
A supernatural creature and a mortal can NOT produce offspring.

Now if said Atlantean becamw a demigod somehow......then sure make lil demigodlings.

[Nightmask]

Conversion Book says....NO.
Demigods are Supernatural creatures.
Atlanteans are mortal.
A supernatural creature and a mortal can NOT produce offspring.

Now if said Atlantean becamw a demigod somehow......then sure make lil demigodlings.

Except gods are also supernatural beings and clearly reproduce with mortal creatures, they're an explicit exception in the rule since they aren't just supernatural beings but a category known to be able to breed with pretty much anything they want to. So a demi-god isn't going to have problems having kids with a True Atlantean, the only question is do you get a True Atlantean Demi-god or not. Myself I would think they'd probably not be producing True Atlantean demi-god children, not being full gods, and at best you get a True Atlantean with some watered down divine heritage that maybe would justify some minor special bonus a normal True Atlantean doesn't have.

[say652]

A god lesser to pantheon leader are many many times more powerful than a demigod.
A godling is more powerful than a demigod.
Both godling and demigod are weaker than the pu2 Immortal.
Still only a God has the ability to mate with a mortal producing a demigod.
But as they say it is your game.
Just following RAW.

[pblackcrow]

Guys, listen...I don't follow the rules. I follow mythology, well mythology and the Emerald Tablet of Thoth. And ignore the stupid line that says a supernatural creature and a mortal can NOT produce offspring. It's not simply because mythology says otherwise that I do so, but because logic says otherwise. Dragon can mate with humans and produce Draconids (they are in one of the phase world books), gods can mate with humans and produce demigods. An Atlantean demigod should be able to mate with another Atlantean. OR AT LEAST IN MY GAME THEY HAVE DONE SO!!! It HAS happened in my game. Thus voiding this argument entirely. Now the questions remains. Will he be able to receive the tattoos?

[say652]

Way around "the rules"

Demigod occ. Tattoo-whatever ( Undead slayer hint hint)
Pantheon power: Some sort of mage for additional ppe. ( on a Warlock kick lately so Fire&Air for additional resistances hint hint)

And Technically a legal Tattoo-Spell caster.

[pblackcrow]

Conversion Book says....NO.
Demigods are Supernatural creatures.
Atlanteans are mortal.
A supernatural creature and a mortal can NOT produce offspring.

Now if said Atlantean becamw a demigod somehow......then sure make lil demigodlings.

Except gods are also supernatural beings and clearly reproduce with mortal creatures, they're an explicit exception in the rule since they aren't just supernatural beings but a category known to be able to breed with pretty much anything they want to. So a demi-god isn't going to have problems having kids with a True Atlantean, the only question is do you get a True Atlantean Demi-god or not. Myself I would think they'd probably not be producing True Atlantean demi-god children, not being full gods, and at best you get a True Atlantean with some watered down divine heritage that maybe would justify some minor special bonus a normal True Atlantean doesn't have.

Hummmm...I see the logic in that.

[pblackcrow]

With one exception though, he can't become MDC regardless of the number of tats he acquires. Which in my games 1 MDC = 10 SDC, so that not a big deal. Okay, I'll text Mike and tell him.

[pblackcrow]

Thanks!

[Nightmask]

A god lesser to pantheon leader are many many times more powerful than a demigod.
A godling is more powerful than a demigod.
Both godling and demigod are weaker than the pu2 Immortal.
Still only a God has the ability to mate with a mortal producing a demigod.
But as they say it is your game.
Just following RAW.

Doesn't have anything to do with the level of power why a god can mate with a mortal, it's simply a natural ability for them to be able to genetically match any prospective mate to produce mixed breed children (i.e. demi-gods). The RAW doesn't say Demi-gods can't reproduce with anything but other demi-gods (which wouldn't make sense anyway considering different gods from different pantheons have completely unrelated origins which means demi-gods other than from a particular pantheon are completely unrelated species going that route so technically a demi-god of Odin can't reproduce with a demi-god of Vishnu since demi-gods aren't a species). Demi-gods aren't going to have problems mating and producing offspring with mortals, they just aren't going to produce more demi-gods just a slightly more divine version of the mortal's species. There would be room though to say that if Odin had a demi-god offspring with a Wolfen that it couldn't reproduce with a human only another Wolfen.

[say652]

Loki has all kinds of children and even birthed a horse.
I was simply stating rules. My philosophy is " The code is more like guidelines really."

I also play an extremely high powered game.

[pblackcrow]

Loki has all kinds of children and even birthed a horse.
I was simply stating rules. My philosophy is " The code is more like guidelines really."

I also play an extremely high powered game.

I am trying to avoid my game becoming an overly high powered game. I rarely do a rifts game.

[Q99]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Doesn't the Inca in SA2 have a lot of Demigods? That'd be the place to check.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Way around "the rules"

Demigod occ. Tattoo-whatever ( Undead slayer hint hint)
Pantheon power: Some sort of mage for additional ppe. ( on a Warlock kick lately so Fire&Air for additional resistances hint hint)

And Technically a legal Tattoo-Spell caster.

Magic Tattoos (the typ found in the RWB2) can't be placed on beings that are MDC before any application of said tattoos.
--------------------------
Demigods would be able to breed with the mortals of the same race as their mortal parent. Following the same rules most of the races in PB follow.
The children might have a specile ability along the lines of the specile human traits from in rifts lonestar or if the trate was magic in nature the magic profficincies found in NB: through the glass darkly and a rifter. But that is something the player needs to ask the GM about.

Godlings' offspring.....*shrugs* While I would want to say GL/GL children would get something, but there is no text about them to base speculations on.
So my opinion would be that the children of two GL's; and those from GL/DG pairings; would be a demigod without the Godling power ability.

[eliakon]

Guys, listen...I don't follow the rules. I follow mythology, well mythology and the Emerald Tablet of Thoth. And ignore the stupid line that says a supernatural creature and a mortal can NOT produce offspring. It's not simply because mythology says otherwise that I do so, but because logic says otherwise. Dragon can mate with humans and produce Draconids (they are in one of the phase world books), gods can mate with humans and produce demigods. An Atlantean demigod should be able to mate with another Atlantean. OR AT LEAST IN MY GAME THEY HAVE DONE SO!!! It HAS happened in my game. Thus voiding this argument entirely. Now the questions remains. Will he be able to receive the tattoos?

Ummmm
SO let me get this straight you are saying
I have completely changed all the rules to my own house rules
These house rules follow what I think is right and have nothing to do with the books at all
And then your asking us a question?
The only answer that can exist is "how does it work under the new rules you have made up."

[eliakon]

Way around "the rules"

Demigod occ. Tattoo-whatever ( Undead slayer hint hint)
Pantheon power: Some sort of mage for additional ppe. ( on a Warlock kick lately so Fire&Air for additional resistances hint hint)

And Technically a legal Tattoo-Spell caster.

Magic Tattoos (the typ found in the RWB2) can't be placed on beings that are MDC before any application of said tattoos.

Well and the minor fact that getting the seventh tattoo destroys any magic abilities that you might have....so you would lose your warlock powers....

[Hannibal]

Agree with Eliakon... if you don't follow or care about the rules, then the answers become arbitrary. It would all be dependent on whatever process you decide to use lol....

Assuming we followed book canon for a moment, I wouldn't allow Atlanteans to reproduce with a demigod. The "rules" are quite explicit that True Atlanteans cant be modified in anyway, so the DNA from an Atlantean probably wouldn't gel with the DNA from a demigod.

[pblackcrow]

Atlanteans themselves ARE partly demigods themselves!!! Does no one read mythology? Honestly!!! Poseidon took a woman and she had his children who mated with castaways to produce the race of Atlanteans. It's mythology.

I'm just telling you that in my game this is what HAS HAPPENED.

I am not going to start an argument. Not am I going to have one started on my post over a rule that has no place in my game world. And I am going to be brutally honest here, if you only play by the rules you leave no place for imagination or growth. The rules are guidelines.

Oh and if that was the case, Hannibal, then the whole plot behind Dimension Book 4 Skraypers is nul and void.

Sorry guys, I know I am going to receive some heat for this. But I don't care. I am not going to be pushed into reversing my rulings on this matter. Finally got some players who like my world. They think I do an amazing job as GM because I know mythology, historical data, etc. And by all rights, I should be a vegetable. Not have an IQ score that is in the 99th percentile. LONG STORY.

Anyway, have a great week.

[Crow Splat]

I don't understand why you seem so hurt by responses here. This is a forum where rules of a game are discussed. You asked a question and got an answer based on the rules. You then responded by saying that you have changed the rules and gave the impression that you felt that we should have already known your house rules.

It's great that your players like playing in your game. Nobody here is faulting you for that. There were some who were puzzled by the fact that you asked a question, got an answer, then changed the parameters of the original question.

I am generally a pretty story driven GM. I allow all kinds of stuff that flues in the face of RAW as long as it has a cool story that the player made up. Do whatever works for your game. FWIW I would probably play the situation, based on my current understanding of the parameters, with the character being a regular True Atlantean with some kind of special ability as well as being allowed tattoos. But I would make the player spell out a detailed back story and it may come back to bite them later.

[dreicunan]

I've read tons of mythology, but since the tale of Poseidon falling in love with Cleito and her baring him five sets of twins comes from Plato, I would normally consider it to be something created whole-cloth by Plato to make a point, not representation of ancient beliefs.

Regardless, I don't think any traits would be passed on if you are following a mythological basis for the understanding anyways; the "demi-god" train stops at the first generation in Greek myths. Heracles wasn't more powerful than the rest of the Greek heroes because of being Perseus's great-grandson, but because Hera ended up suckling him shortly after his birth (an incident responsible for creating the Milky Way). So unless you are feeding them Hera's magic breast milk, no special traits would be given to any offspring, and they would at most be True Atlanteans. I wouldn't even give them any special traits, certainly nothing that would affect stats. There might be some role-playing advantages, but they'd be just like any other True Atlantean in regards to power.

[Q99]

The only case I can think of in Rifts where someone more than one or two generations down is still considered basically-a-demigod is True Inca, and even then considering their limited population it's likely not all of their children are True Inca. They're probably the results of children-of-demigods having kids with demigods, and similar, until you have a large-ish population of kinda-demi-gods. Oh, and they do specifically have the favor of their pantheon. A god can *grant* demigodhood, I believe...

So a kid of a mortal and a demi-god may be a demi-god if the deific grandma favors it, possibly.

Which doesn't really address the tattoo question, admittedly.

What I'd be tempted to do is have the kid have tattoos, but just symbolic ones, without the magical properties, to reflect their atlantean heritage even if their demigod nature overrides them.

[Tor]

Not sure if Demigod+Demigod (or Demigod+Human) reproduction has ever been covered.

*thinks simplest solution is to consider Demigods sterile crossbreeds, like mules*

Herakles was a demigod and had children with his wife, according to myth, so there is precident.

Apollo has a slue of children with mortals, who had kids, who had kids, who had kids, etc. And heck some still claim to be of his line.

However, their mothers were never very happy.

Serves Apollo right, going around killing guys just for hittong on his sis, or tolerating her doing so.

[say652]

In my game, Apollo is an active npc.
Most times Apollo is accompanied by Artemis and Eros.
Apollo is one of my favorite gods to use mainly because he's a good guy (in palladium) his resurrection power and the fact that I am thinking of starting a new pantheon with him as the "All Father" perhaps he frequently crosses paths with a certain muaclebound dimwit immortal to recruit for his new flock...
..

[Galroth]

If an Atlantean (which for all tense and purposes according to the mythology are at least partial demigods) and a demigod from Egyptian myth mated (Child of Thoth), could the offspring have magical tattoos and/or inherit the mothers power? How much PPE, hit points, and SDC should he have? And lastly, what should his stats be?

I am not going to be giving him MDC, unless he get 7 tattoos...And I may not even then. That's if he can even have them. And for the record, YES...Thoth (Tehuti, Djehuti, etc) is a God and was one of the former kings of Atlantis that was deified, in my games.

Demigods are supernatural in nature and are explictly barred from receiving magic tattoos.

Correct! But what I am asking is: would the children of a demigod and an Atlantean be able to receive tattoos?

Now, keep in mind that according to mythology Atlanteans were supposedly fathered by Poseidon and a mortal and to keep the race going the sons of Poseidon mated with ship wrecked mortals.

You are using real world mythology to write over in game mythology. In game mythology Atlanteans aren't demigods. They are an advanced branch of humanity that has been altered by millenia of magic use.

That being said, I played a Demigod daughter of Poseidon and a True Atlantean who's OCC was Undead Slayer. The GM of that game allowed the use of magic tattoos and increased MDC. She was also had selected the Magic Power demigod power, so she could cast spells (which the GM also allowed). So in summary, I don't see a problem with allowing this combination as a house rule as long as you are running a high powered campaign.

[Hannibal]

They think I do an amazing job as GM because I know mythology, historical data, etc. And by all rights, I should be a vegetable. Not have an IQ score that is in the 99th percentile. LONG STORY.

I just want to thank you for sparing us your "long story" about your asserted intellectual superiority that I'm pretty sure every percentile of humanity has no interest in reading!

As you said, have a good week!

[ShadowHawk]

They think I do an amazing job as GM because I know mythology, historical data, etc. And by all rights, I should be a vegetable. Not have an IQ score that is in the 99th percentile. LONG STORY.

I just want to thank you for sparing us your "long story" about your asserted intellectual superiority that I'm pretty sure every percentile of humanity has no interest in reading!

As you said, have a good week!

Shannon was making light of his disability, which is something he tries to doeverynow and then. he doesn't have a intellectual superiority attitude. Yes he has an extremely high IQ. I wouldn't doubt it is in the 99th percentile or above. he had severe viral insefellitus (not sure if that is spelled right) at age 7 or 8 I think. he can't always speak clearly or use his hands properly.

I can sorta see his point. he told you guys in the front that this is what has happened in his game. still some of you kept said stuff like demi gods can't produce an offspring or supernatural beings can't reproduce w/ mortal beings was what his prob was.

Thoth in his games was a king of Atlantus who ascended to godhood, which isnt a major deal.